What is Canadian comp and recruitment like?

How much do analyst/associate/VP/MD make on average at the big 5 canadian banks? I assume it is lower than the US, but is it around 50% less compared to BB or like 80%?

Also how many people are recruited per year into Bay Street? Since there's only 2 or 3 schools that actually get recruitment on-campus recruitment wouldn't it be much harder than to get on Wall Street as there's less positions?

Thanks

Comments (75)

Dec 9, 2017

Analysts make 80-85K base. Yes it's CAD, but adjusting for COL it's actually pretty good.

I see where you're coming from with the Bay Street vs. Wall Street logic, but in practice it doesn't really hold i.e. it's not easier to get to Wall Street.

Dec 9, 2017

This is spot on. You will likely end up saving more than your NYC peers.

Dec 9, 2017

What is bonus range as % of base?

Dec 9, 2017

Yeah that makes sense since NYC is such an expensive place to live especially if you want to live close to work.

Though would you know how much VPs, Directors and Managing Directors make in Canada. I dont think Canadian banks have their comp shown on the WSO salary page.

Dec 9, 2017

Analysts 80-85k base

I feel like Associates are between 130-150k base

Dec 14, 2017

Analysts 85k base is now standard
Associates 100k base is now standard

Compensation trajectory is driven largely by increasing bonuses (i.e. first year analyst should expect ~50K, second year ~80K, third year ~100K, etc.)

Source: worked Toronto banking for too long

Bay Street is likely easier to get onto than Wall Street - US core schools for Wall Street can get placed onto Bay Street but outside of a couple placements from Ivey most Canadians don't get the chance to go to Wall Street.

Toronto is an expensive place to live. NYC is horrendous. You'll save more money than your WS peers, but if you ever consider an exit from banking you'll find Canadian exit opps are seriously lackluster (outside of Onex) and you'll most likely have to move to the US

Dec 14, 2017

Agree mostly. Just to add, some of the 5 banks pay 120k base instead of 100k for Associates

Dec 14, 2017

Ah, it's been a while - not surprised it's gone up.

Dec 14, 2017

The overall average total comp is roughly the same between New York and Toronto. The differences are the following:
1. bonus/salary split. In new York its a much a higher base salary component and smaller bonus. So a first year associate makes a base of US$150k plus bonus. Whereas in Canada you get a smaller 100k type base but larger year end bonus to make for it.
2. The USD versus CAD difference is significant. You especially notice it when you vacation in Europe and pay with euros, or if youre at a restaurant in Canada everything is basically a 25% discount to your US credit card.
3. High end pay outliers. In New York you'll have certain boutiques like PJT, Moelis, Evercore or top bucket juniors at top BB groups that make out like bandits. Whereas in Canada, IMO, people generally make a similar range across the board without any extreme high end outlier payouts.

Dec 18, 2017

Base Salary:
Analyst - $85-95k
Associate - $95 - 120k
VP - $120 - 150k

All-in:
An. - $140 - ~200
Ass. - $200 - 350
VP - $350 - 650

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Dec 18, 2017

Is that it? I just took a look at the Calendar and they have a couple more schools on the recruiting list. Is this for a specific office??

Dec 18, 2017

That's definitely it for the US schools.... they seem to only be recruiting US students for positions at their New York location.

As for the Canadian schools... yeah there are a few others... but lol i would agree the ones listed their are where the majority are going to come from

Dec 18, 2017

Do you know many students TD Securities took for IBD and S&T this summer?

Dec 18, 2017

I saw the postings for CIBC Sales and Trading recruiting posts too, but target schools weren`t listed. So who do they usually recruit from?

Dec 18, 2017

For sure they go to the University of Waterloo's campus to recruit directly

Dec 18, 2017

Nujabes, TD for IBD took 2 kids for summer analyst positions in Toronto. One from Queens and one from Schulich

Dec 18, 2017

.

Dec 18, 2017

I find it interesting that they are recruiting from some pretty top US graduate schools (wharton, columbia, cornell) but from not so top undergraduate schools. Why is this the case?

Dec 18, 2017

Canadian banks tend to only have 1 or 2 analysts in their NY offices, as it is mostly relationship management, and its more important to have bodies to send to meetings than bodies to crank out books.
Similar to why US banks in Canada are top heavy.

Dec 18, 2017

lol that TD has a "NY location."

Dec 18, 2017
brisbane:

lol that TD has a "NY location."

The TD NY office mainly focuses on the US leveraged loan market. It's a lot different than the Toronto office.

Dec 18, 2017

Campus info session dates are up for RBC Capital Markets.

School line up:

McGill, Concordia, HEC, UofT, York, UBC, UWO and Queens.

Anyone know how big their SA class was for IB and markets and how many they are looking to hire for FT?

Dec 18, 2017

I am pretty sure that UBC recruitment is purely going through the motions. I know a guy who was president of the the student body at UBC Sauder and got a mad avg and still couldn't get a banking job. He got a Bain job so that worked out well, but he wanted to do banking. UBC banking = nonexistent.

UBC is not a real school when it comes to Canadian finance (or any sort of finance).

Dec 18, 2017

rampagejackson, TD only took 2 for summer IBD in T-dot? I would have thought there would be a couple more. Granted, its small, but still.

Dec 18, 2017

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Dec 18, 2017

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Dec 18, 2017

Just network and get good grades; don't be a phony

Dec 18, 2017

Follow the markets everyday. Join the sales & trading club. Pursue your passions this summer and be ready to share them to expand your network. And yes, don't be phony.

Dec 18, 2017

@Dapefl Have you already received an offer from Ivey for the Fall? If so, when did you get it? And when's the deadline they gave you to accept? Please let me know. Will give you a banana. :)

Dec 18, 2017

Yes, I received my offer from Ivey earlier this month (July). They gave me until the 22nd to accept the offer.

Dec 18, 2017

With those grades I bet you have some great opportunities, whether they be IB or not.

Dec 18, 2017

plus, you're a varsity athlete. I'm sure you could land something on bay street easily

Dec 18, 2017

The only other option i see aside from ibanking is attempting to go to law school...

Dec 18, 2017

i think it will be very difficult for you... just because one's gpa is above 3.7 doesnt really mean anything

Dec 18, 2017

I dont know from my view 3.85 would seem much higher than 3.7 but again i know that the marks won't do anything more than get me the interviews.

Dec 18, 2017

Bay Street is tough to break into. Doing some networking will help a lot. Contact alumni and ask them about their careers, etc. You have plenty of time though - interviews don't start until January. Work hard and prepare yourself.

Dec 18, 2017

Are you finishing off your 3rd year or just starting it? If you're entering your 4th year and don't have an internship in banking, you need to network your ass off right now. Even if you're entering third year, your best bet is to network this summer while you are in Toronto (I'm assuming) since people that don't go to UofT or Schulich can't network with alumni during the school year. Unless its just a corporate info session.

There has to be some Waterloo alumni, track them down. Do you have any friends that are working at banks? Ask them for contacts as well. The big five hold a lot of networking events in August, if your school is not invited to them you need to find people that go to these schools (Ivey, Queens, Mcgill, Schulich, UofT, Laurier) and ask them for details about these events so that you can crash them. I've been to some of these events and have seen kids from Waterloo before so that should be your next step.

Dec 18, 2017

I know a bunch of UW engineers with jobs in banking and trading. Also I think Barclays has chosen to hire as many UW engineers or math students as they can, know people in NY/Singapore/London. Most UW kids aim to be S&T though.

Also some derivative and structuring desk will only take UW or UofT kids, so I don't know what you mean there is "prolly some recruiting, but less than other schools".

Your first goal though should be to see if you want banking or trading. The people I know who got banking, had to work way harder, there is a lot less spots, and most goto ECE,Systems Design students.

Dec 18, 2017

CDN: I'm half way through my 3rd year right now. I already do have internships on several desks, and I do keep in contact with the people i've worked with. I was looking to hunt down alumni and write them an introductory letter in the near future. Does crashing other schools events work? aside from the valuable networking, do they have a set mandate for example to recruit X many from school Y, and i would just be part of the waterloo quota anyway?

adehbone: are you talking about engineers on co-op or full time? The co-op process is decent, but spots are limited, and still not sure if its a good indicator of full time recruitment. I remembered that It was just a bit discouraging seeing their websites and waterloo not coming up on their campus tour dates or even if it did, it was hiring for IT or accounting positions.

Dec 18, 2017

Bay St recruiting is not as formal as other places from what I have seen. I would say most of the banks have exact "numbers" they want to take from each school, but they in general interview anyone who they see as quality. For instance one of the big5 took 2-3 kids from my school last year, and they wanted atleast 1 co-op for the fall, but they came, interviewed and decided to give no offers. Another bank only wanted 1 student, but ended up taking 2. The bank that took no co-ops, is coming back to recruit again for fulltime though in the fall.

The engineers I know mostly got in either through co-op then getting full-time offers. Or networked from doing trading to being able to interview for IBD, basically their boss just made a call. Yes spots are limited, and there is alot more trading positions, so you will have to work hard. I would say even the recruitment calendar on most big5 websites are wrong, as they allow resume drops at all schools, though they may only send like one analyst to the campus info session. While I know TDS has like a whole night commited to Ivey for banking analysts.

Dec 18, 2017

I heard from a recruiter that when they receive resumes at networking events like company recruiting session, they always throw the resumes away. Is this true, or do they skim through?

Dec 18, 2017

I suggest NOT going to other schools' recruiting fairs unless for some reason everyone at that school is your friend. Personally, I'd be really pissed if some kid from Waterloo showed up at the recruiting fair and I don't think many people would take too kindly to it either. Also, I think that recruiters will genereally just be really confused as to what you're even doing there.

Anyways, if I were you, I would contact anyone even marginally related to finance that went to Waterloo. Chances are these guys/girls will have connections further in the industry and will likely be able to hook you up with people that can help you get a job doing what you want to do.

For example, I contacted a guy that worked in S&T at RBC CM and he hooked me up with his twin brother who's an associate at a BB in NYC, gave me the contact information of an MD at RBC CM, and introduced me to a friend of his who is also an associate at a BB in NYC. So, in the end, what I thought would be a fruitless connection turned out really, really well.

Also, coming from a non-finance oriented school, anyone who IS in the industry will likely be extremely helpful and will genuinely try and assist you. So just network your ass off basically.

Dec 18, 2017

Actually many alumni and people on Bay St, have advised me to crash school events at the main targets. No one cares if you are not happy, and some UW kid shows up, big deal live with it. No Canadian schools I know actually ID card anyone at recruitment sessions, so it seems like fair game if you ask me. Again the UW kid does not care if you don't like it, its the recruiters and from what i heard, none of them mind at all. If you goto a target and actually get upset over such a thing, the only reason I could see is fear that you don't get the proper facetime with recruiters, which makes no sense, since you goto a target to begin with.

Dec 18, 2017

sisak: it's just an opportunity i figured like everything else. it's not personal, you got to do what you got to do right? and frankly if the other school is as finance-targeted and has as many opportunities as they do, then their students should have nothing to be afraid of really. but yeah i'll definitely have to bring up some contacts and network all around, do I tell them i'm interested in their line of work and am currently looking for full time opportunities?
adehbone: i think ultimately these recruiters just want to find the best candidates for the job, and they really don't care about what school you're from in general. so yeah i'll probably do that. same question again, how should i introduce myself with the contacts i find?

Dec 18, 2017

I'm just saying: probably not a good idea to piss off hundreds of people who are already pissed off that job opps. suck right now lol. But that was my perspective coming from a target. Now, if I were you, I would definitely go anyway because like you said "you got to do what you got to do."

About the alumni, I wouldn't blatantly say it like that. I would just introduce myself and say I'm interested in finance...and get them to talk to you on the phone where you can kind of show yourself off. They know why you're calling :p You want to get them to like you and to eventually introduce you to people that can REALLY help you, so state your goals and your past experiences and you should be fine but like I said don't get on the phone and say "Look man, I really need a job..." lol, I should hope that that's fairly evident anyway.

Dec 18, 2017

Canada/US, Wall/Bay St, networking is networking. There is a bunch of threads about non-targets networking in the banking bullpen forum, I would begin there, lots of great tips. About first sending cold emails, then asking for a phone call, having general questions, and finally hinting at your goals.

Dec 18, 2017
northmonkey:

Pretty much i'd do anything to get a fair shot as other people who have picked a better school in recruitment, I think i'd have a good chance of beating them for their jobs. Do people know how BMO, TD, RBC, CIBC, Scotia recruits in particular? Looked at their website, and generally waterloo is left out. Ideas? I'm sure there's a lot of Canadians out here, any particular experiences with this would be greatly appreciated.

You are correct. The schools they recruit at are listed on their websites. If you're school is not on the list they tell you to submit your resume with your transcript.

My previous experience (and my advice to you) from my soon to be previous career is to crash the job fairs.

I go to Ryerson for Finance, so I'll be joining you at those job fairs.

Dec 18, 2017

as previously said, the recruiting landscape is probably a bit different than the states (less formal), but I'll probably will engage in cold emailing as adehbone suggested. consensus is probably you've got to find every opportunity there is and use it to your advantage.

Dec 18, 2017

I got my internship very late in the recruiting season by cold-emailing.

Dec 18, 2017
  1. Usuals (GS/MS)
  2. Same
  3. Probably.
  4. simliar to NY
  5. Same US boutiques
  6. Same as US
  7. Ranges from same to low-end. No worse than NY likely - through you start earlier at 9ish rather than 10ish (not sure if 10 is a real starting time... but no meetings really happen before then it seems in NY).
Dec 18, 2017

Third option: Accept the return at the boutique, go through recruiting in September, and renege if/when you get an offer from a BB.

You need to understand that a good firm, a profitable firm, and an attractive stock investment can be 3 unrelated things. -Epicurean Dealmaker

Dec 18, 2017
ytinifni:

Third option: Accept the return at the boutique, go through recruiting in September, and renege if/when you get an offer from a BB.

Not really an option that I would consider. Back up is to do FLDP.

Dec 18, 2017
ytinifni:

Third option: Accept the return at the boutique, go through recruiting in September, and renege if/when you get an offer from a BB.

Best option hands down.

Dec 18, 2017

Honestly it depends on the boutique (elite?) and their group/deal flow

Dec 18, 2017
TXenergyIB:

Honestly it depends on the boutique (elite?) and their group/deal flow

Small boutique, not well know outside of local area

Dec 18, 2017

Bump

Dec 18, 2017

you in Toronto?

Don't listen to anyone, everybody is scared.

Dec 18, 2017
baystcheese:

you in Toronto?

Western Canada gunning for Calgary

Dec 18, 2017

are you at Peters or First Energy?

Dec 18, 2017
Ibsoup:

are you at Peters or First Energy?

No. I would sign on ft with a peters or first energy

Dec 18, 2017
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