What Is Going On With Uber?

If you haven't been paying attention, Uber has come under a lot of fire recently. Apparently, they have had a total of five scandals in two short weeks. First, they had that HR and sexual assault issue. Next, they had a scathing report on their terrible culture and Google also filed a lawsuit against them. Lastly, there was the video released of their CEO arguing with an Uber driver on price polices and then there was the story about Uber circumventing law enforcement. I feel like their CEO should take a lot of the blame for some of these issues. Sounds like he is a poor leader who has let some things get out of hand.


The Times story published on Feb. 22, citing interviews with more than 30 current and former Uber employees, concluded that Uber’s workplace culture is “aggressive” and “unrestrained.”

Specifically, the Times mentions allegations of a man groping a female coworker’s breasts at a company retreat, homophobic slurs from a manager to a coworker, and physical threats from a manager to a coworker.


The driver, Fawzi Kamel, tells Kalanick respectfully that the company’s price drops have hurt him financially. The two debate the issue, but it gets more and more heated. “People are not trusting you anymore. … I lost $97,000 because of you,” Kamel says. Eventually, Kalanick accuses him, “Some people don’t like to take responsibility for their own sh—.” (Kalanick also says “bullsh—” twice in the argument.)

Where do you guys see Uber heading? Will they be able to shake off these problems?

Reference:
Uber's 5 Scandals

 

As an Uber user, pains me to say but the Cabbies have a point. Uber X drivers are driving for profit without a permit, which cabbies have to pay for. Cabbies are being a little childish about it (protested by blocking streets hooking a couple weeks ago).

Looks like its going to end up needing a mutually beneficial solution for Uber to stay, which will likely increase the Uber X prices.

 

I agree. I can't comment on Toronto but the cost of an NYC medallion used to be $1.2MM and after a quick check it's down to $800k in a very short amount of time (like 6-12 months). Now, I don't agree with the stupid regulation of the medallion system, it doesn't make the cabs clean, the drivers nice, etc. and the regulated nature of the business keeps it like that, BUT these guys paid good money for that license because that's how it legally works(ed). They couldn't legally operate a taxi without one so when you have UberX come in and define themselves as not a taxi but pretty much are a taxi, it sucks for the guys holding medallions. And I know the reality is that most medallions are held by a small concentration of guys who hold a large number of them (and tend to be pretty bad human beings), but they own them in the existing regulatory framework. They also have to play by the rules in the types of cars they own, some % have to run on cng, they have to charge specified rates and pay certain %'s to the government.

I think that's all bullshit but it does seem unfair to let a new entity, Uber, come in and define themselves as different when it's the same in reality and take away your business because they're not playing within the existing regulatory and legal framework when you the medallion taxi can't compete with them because you're operating in the existing framework.

 

I personally think uber lost their moral high ground with uberx. Uber is a superior product to cabs, have car requirements and is a differentiated service. Uberx is basically people acting as cabs without getting commercial insurance or liscencing. I'll support uber, but uberx is a legitimate gripe for cabs. Even without the medalion costs, uberx provides an unfair advantage.

 

It's just a case of regulatory arbitrage. The cabbies in Toronto are entitled pricks although I find many of the uber drivers are people from the suburbs who have no idea who to drive in the city or where anything is. Think about someone from Jersey or CT trying to firstly find you and then get you where you need to be in NYC. It's sometimes a bit of a disaster to say the least.

At the end of the day it's not fair that these guys can operate outside of the regulatory bureaucracy although it's probably time that it was updated.

 

Every time I've been in a taxi: -old, disgusting car -obscure ethnic music being played just loud enough to be annoying -crusty driver in heavily stained polo shirt from 1993

Uber: -nice, clean car -able to have decent conversation with driver -easy to use

 

The taxi companies have a method of fighting back--update their own business models. Create phone apps, improve customer service, take credit cards without throwing a tantrum, hire people who speak English. The taxi companies have no one to blame but themselves for Uber, Lyft, et al kicking their collective ass.

Array
 

Typical experience from 2010-2012:

We had a group of friends over and wanted to go to a bar downtown. It was raining, so we called to request two cabs. The guy on the other end of the phone yelled “20 minutes” and abruptly hung up. An hour later, we decide that it isn’t raining that hard and that we’ll just start walking and hail a cab along the way. Four or five cabs drive by, ignoring us despite the fact that they were empty. Eventually we decide we’re better off just walking the rest of the way.

Fast forward to the end of the night when the bars let out. Despite the fact that there are hundreds of people on the streets looking for rides, there’s only a handful of cabs to be found. After finally getting a cab to pull over for us, he rolls down his window and asks where we’re going. He doesn’t want to go that direction, so he drives off without us. 15 minutes later we get another cab who lets us in. His cab reeks of smoke. He tries to take a long route in order to jack up the fare, assuming we’re drunk and not paying attention. When we finally get home, he yells at us that his credit card reader is “broken” and that we need to pay cash. When we pay cash, he yells at us that we didn’t tip him well enough.

After putting up with this crap on a regular basis, I jumped at the chance to download Uber and haven’t ridden in a normal cab since.

I do feel bad for the ‘good’ cabbies who shelled out tons of money (or went into tons of debt) in order to play by the rules. I can understand why they’re pissed off, but they shouldn’t be pissed off at Uber – they should be pissed off at the numerous 'bad' drivers who abused the taxi monopoly for years (decades?), thus making something like Uber so attractive in the first place.

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I get the argument that UberX isn't regulated like cabbies with the medallion system and that it's unfair that they're competing for the same customers, but at the end of the day, the end-user experience is what matters and people aren't going to stop using UberX just because it's unfair to the cabbies. Also, this perception that yellow cabs are dirty, the drivers are loud and rude, and incidents like this only serve to drive more people away from taking yellow cabs.

 

The "b...but...muh permits" argument may have made sense LONG before the internet, where it wouldn't be possible to review cabbies and know who is legit and who might be a scam, but it's now obsolete and a form of regulatory capture.

Then again, I live in Dallas right now so it's a non-issue...I use Uber all the time and doubtful the city is going to do anything about it lol. One of the things I like about Texas.

 

I take NYC cabs from time to time but from earlier comments it seems that I am extremely lucky to not yet contract hepatitis! .. I just have not experienced cabs that are as bad a those mentioned on here.. sure, sometimes (yes, sometimes) they are old and "worn" but I don't have contingency plans laid out in terms of the nearest hospital every time I get in one.

that said, I feel the cab fleet is being upgraded, at least in nyc. there are a lot more (new-ish) priuses, ford explorers, camrys, etc. as cabs today than a few years ago..

these are my observations though I am in no way "supporting" the cabbies side here.

anyway, Dingdong08 's argument about the medallions makes sense. They probably started issuing them for public safety purposes (few people are as vulnerable as those getting in a car with a stranger, etc.). I am curious how uber is circumventing that issue.

Given the high cost of medallions I doubt the govt can just invalidate them tomorrow even if they wanted to. They would probably let them fall in market value for a couple of years or to their maturity (if they have a maturity).

 

In my city, cab drivers yap on the phone in a foreign language the entire time they are driving you, don't listen to your directions, act like they don't know how to get you to your destination so the tab runs up, and refuse to accept credit cards.

Fuck cab services. The tolerable drivers have all made the jump to Uber, and praise it because they earn more. Step your level of service up to compete, or fail - nothing new here. My only complaint is the surge rates can sometimes be bullshit.

Array
 

Investing in a medallion doesn't protect you from changes in technology, competition, and industry dynamics. It's an investment and it bears risk. Changes in government policies affect the value of investments all the time. It's your job as an investor (and business owner) to monitor and mitigate these risks.

Taxi companies exploited the existing system by offering a lousy service--at least from my experience here in southern california. If the taxi companies had offered a good service that evolved with technology, there would be no Uber. So who's fault is this?

Taxi drivers should be upset at their employers, not their competition.

And, by the way, Uber has a commercial insurance policy that covers its drivers (including UberX)--at least here in California. Uber requires background checks and annual car inspection for all drivers (including UberX).

 

You know what's really telling? The posters who generally support the Democratic Left in their posts (DingDong, MBA_Junkie) are the ones doing their best to justify big taxi monopolies. My brother is the one who introduced me to left-wing politics and from him I learned that the American Left detests crony capitalism and big business, but from Uber to the Ex-Im Bank to state moving company monopolies to farm subsidies, I've found that the Left and its sympathizers are, for whatever reason, completely and utterly bought in to crony capitalism/corporatism, despite their rhetoric. I, I just don't understand how out of one side of the Left's mouth they can rail against corporations and out of the other side they can argue for state-sanctioned corporate protection. It's mind-boggling.

Array
 
Virginia Tech 4ever:

You know what's really telling? The posters who generally support the Democratic Left in their posts (DingDong, MBA_Junkie) are the ones doing their best to justify big taxi monopolies. My brother is the one who introduced me to left-wing politics and from him I learned that the American Left detests crony capitalism and big business, but from Uber to the Ex-Im Bank to state moving company monopolies to farm subsidies, I've found that the Left and its sympathizers are, for whatever reason, completely and utterly bought in to crony capitalism/corporatism, despite their rhetoric. I, I just don't understand how out of one side of the Left's mouth they can rail against corporations and out of the other side they can argue for state-sanctioned corporate protection. It's mind-boggling.

this is not about left vs. right political agendas.. and I am pretty sure no one on here is supporting the cabbies "right" to not improve. But you have to understand how the other side feels and thinks if this problem is to be solved.

In this case, the cabbies feel cheated because they had to invest upto $1m (nyc) because of regulations that uber drivers do not have to comply with.

Legally speaking, there might be a case for discrimination here: not from the pov of cannibalizing sales for cabs but from the pov of being allowed to drive for fare.

From a purely economic point of view it is easy to say that sunk costs must be ignored and lets start fresh tomorrow... but when you invest hundreds of thousands of dollars - that you still have to pay back regardless of tech innovations - most people will fight it.

Is liberalizing this market a good thing? Yes, of course. Will it happen overnight? No, of course not. Will it happen eventually? Yes, of course.

 

First off, I hardly consider myself a supporter of the Democratic Left. I'm pretty center of the road, I just don't agree with many of the idiosyncrasies that the further right and libertarian wings of the GOP has developed over the past couple of decades. Some of them seem like good ideas in theory but in the modern world most of them are simply not practical. Per your example, ExIm may defy your ideology of laisse faire economics but every other country has the equivalent and our main competitor, China, is basically a giant ExIm bank. It's simply logical that we would have that function to keep our companies competitive with others in the world marketplace. Perhaps you don't much like your brother, but you're projecting what you want others to hold as political views and throwing a bunch of odd examples together.

Second, how is this political? I'm simply stating that the current regulatory environment is what it is. I don't think it's the optimal situation, but that's what currently exists. The hack and livery license framework has a long history spanning the political spectrum over centuries, and business must operate under whatever is the current regulatory environment. If it wants to change the regulations then it needs to work to change them, not simply break the regulations and ask for forgiveness later, or it needs to tweak its business model to make it operate under existing laws and regulations. I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Uber's original business plan was to get drivers who had state issued livery licenses to fill in their down time by signing up, having someone inspect their vehicle, do background checks, etc. to become an Uber driver and earn extra money, but most importantly they were already licensed by the state under the existing regulatory framework. From what I understand, UberX is pitching itself as "you got a car? Come work as an UberX driver." The former was operating within the regulatory environment. The latter simply isn't. Regulatory risk is indeed a part of business, but the regulation needs to change: having a well funded 800 lb gorilla come in and just do what it wants isn't making the wrong bet with regard to regulations, it's simply a competitor breaking the regulations.

It's not a direct comparison, but Napster went out and did what consumers really wanted and it was found in violation of copyright laws. Apple then figured out the way to do it legally and completely changed the music industry legally. Uber's already greatly altered an industry but it's crossing the legal line with UberX. And by the way, these are regulations made at the most local levels possible: hack licenses are issued by the municipality and livery licenses by the states. They make the rules, and I believe a main tenet of the GOP is states powers.

Although it doesn't matter that you assume I'm a lefty, which I'm really not, the regulation does matter. I've done multiple domestic deals that have had federal/municipal/state regulatory hair, including a dead deal that involved taxi advertising so I have real working knowledge of the NYC TLC and a few other city's taxi regulatory agencies and can list the absurd rules in place, but they exist and therefore you need to operate within them or you need to change them. I've also done multiple international deals that involve dealing with laws and regulations that would blow your mind. You can not like particular regulations or regulations at all, but to operate legally you need to abide by the law or you need to work to change them.

I congratulate you on attempting to make what is a legal and business issue into a political issue and projecting your preconceived notions upon those with whom you disagree. I too find it mind blowing that you're able to throw so many cool catch phrases into one of the more illogical trains of thought I've encountered.

 

It sounded like Dingdong08 was commenting on the legal case being made by Taxi companies... which was the point of the thread. Many of the other comments might as well have been copied & pasted off of a Yelp page.

"Since UberX is a superior service, cabbies have no legal argument." That's not a very convincing argument.

Bringing politics into the equation, especially for the purpose of a straw-man argument or ad hominem, serves no purpose and makes you sound like a moron.

"I am that I am"
 

Y'know where I see a bit of similarity to Uber's business model? Medical tourism.

You fly over to Thailand or India or wherever, get your medical care, and when it's all done and if you've done your homework right you've just received better medical care at a lower price than what you would've gotten in the US. The doctors and nurses in these countries aren't regulated by the US government, although they do obviously have their own governments overseeing them. Why choose to trust Uber any less than you do the US or Thai or Indian government? Yes, yes, I get that Uber may have more of a profit motive than any government does, but you still have a choice regarding whether you want to chance it taking an Uber ride vs hailing a cab.

I don't see anyone trying to make medical tourism illegal...

 
Angus Macgyver:

Y'know where I see a bit of similarity to Uber's business model? Medical tourism.

You fly over to Thailand or India or wherever, get your medical care, and when it's all done and if you've done your homework right you've just received better medical care at a lower price than what you would've gotten in the US. The doctors and nurses in these countries aren't regulated by the US government, although they do obviously have their own governments overseeing them. Why choose to trust Uber any less than you do the US or Thai or Indian government? Yes, yes, I get that Uber may have more of a profit motive than any government does, but you still have a choice regarding whether you want to chance it taking an Uber ride vs hailing a cab.

I don't see anyone trying to make medical tourism illegal...

To be fair, no one is making medical tourism illegal (if they hypothetically wanted to) because that's an international phenomenon. Is the US going to prohibit flying to Thailand? No. Is Thailand going to prohibit people from purchasing medical care? No. Uber is a domestic "issue," thus there is motive and capability to deal with it accordingly. Given that, I don't see how the slight medical tourism parallel applies.
 

I was with a few guys at a bar the other night. There were four taxis waiting at the bar, but we instead chose to wait ten minutes for an Uber driver to show up. I really do feel sorry for the (very few) taxi drivers who provide good service. Their anger should be directed at the 99% of other taxi drivers. If they do not like Uber, they should better their service.

 

Love Uber. Obviously the taxi companies will fight against it because they don't want the competition. Uber drivers have to have an appropriate driver's license with a good history, no criminal record, etc.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com
 

To those re. regulation: Ubers are not taxis (public hail), but rather are "black cars," where you call (now: app) to get picked up. And they are regulated as such.

Taxi drivers are whining because their lunch got eaten.

I only use taxis when I am in NYC and am too lazy to open up the app. Uber is a much better experience and I am glad it exists.

 

The Taxi driver's frustration is understandable: in most places they're being driven out of business due to regulatory requirements that the competition is not subject to.

What do they do? Rather than lobby to have their own regulations loosened enough for them to compete they instead try to get the government to shut the competition down.

Sound familiar Dick?

And people wonder why China is going to be the new economic capital of the world by the mid 2000's.

 

As a Toronto local I can attest that cabbies here are as scummy as it gets. We're currently hosting the Pan-Am games and cabs ask for $50 flat rates for a 1-2km drive or they don't let you in the car. Same deal in the nightlife industry; always cabbies seeking out prey like vultures after an event at a club/bar because they know you're desperate to get home. Its against the law to not turn on the meter here but you can't do much when you can't get into his/her cab in the first place.

Competition is the best way to straighten the industry out.. only reason why cabbies are protesting is they no longer have the grip on customers they used to. Its a real shame that the proverb "a few bad apples" doesn't apply to Toronto, its as if they're all trained to be pieces of shit right from the get-go.

 
StreetofBulls:

As a Toronto local I can attest that cabbies here are as scummy as it gets. We're currently hosting the Pan-Am games and cabs ask for $50 flat rates for a 1-2km drive or they don't let you in the car. Same deal in the nightlife industry; always cabbies seeking out prey like vultures after an event at a club/bar because they know you're desperate to get home. Its against the law to not turn on the meter here but you can't do much when you can't get into his/her cab in the first place.

Competition is the best way to straighten the industry out.. only reason why cabbies are protesting is they no longer have the grip on customers they used to. Its a real shame that the proverb "a few bad apples" doesn't apply to Toronto, its as if they're all trained to be pieces of shit right from the get-go.

That sounds really bad.

1-2 km => 0.62-1.24 miles for those of you who are up in arms against the metric system :)

 
Best Response

God damn liberals are such idiots.

If Uber didnt keep running taxis they wouldnt have been able to go to the airport to even protest in the first place.

You know you've been working too hard when you stop dreaming about bottles of champagne and hordes of naked women, and start dreaming about conditional formatting and circular references.
 

Uber suspended the surge pricing so that they would not benefit from the increased demand. Yet the NY Post claims "Yet Uber continued to not only send its drivers, it turned off its surge pricing in an attempt to drum up more business".

Surge pricing encourages more drivers to come out in order to "drum up more business" for the increased demand. People are so stupid

 

Can someone explain the logic of stopping cab services to and from the airport? How does that show solidarity?

More important what about people who are simply trying to catch their flight or trying to reach home? Are they supposed to wait until the protesters have cooled off or are they supposed to walk home?

 

This is actually an interesting and contemporary phenomenon you are observing. Bradley Campbell and Jason Manning elaborate on subject in their sociology study "Microaggression and Moral Cultures". In brief, they talk about how Western culture has gone from being an honor culture (prior to the rule of law), to a dignity culture and now slowly is transitioning into a victimhood culture. In a culture of victimhood it's necessary, even de rigeuer, to constantly proclaim your own victimization and hence you are in a constant need for new oppressors. That's why you will get these ridiculous instances - see

for an incomplete list.

Trump to a large extent rejected this narrative and gained a lot sympathize for it.

 

I don't know how many of you remember, last year or so a company out of the UK ran a fitness ad and was accused of "fat shaming" and was bombarded by liberals throughout social media. Instead of apologizing to the liberals they posted the same ad in an even bigger format in NY. Their sales skyrocketed lol

Can't seem to find the link to that story but this with Uber will go away within a week until someone protests some other company

 

Not to side track the convo (but I'm gonna try to side track the convo) - what would you do if you were like Lyft or Sidecar right now? Maybe it's only in my city (other apps seemed a little more popular in SF, relatively speaking, when I was there), but it seems like Uber has a huge and dominant presence in the space. Like I use Uber even though I know I get a $5 credit from Lyft (sometimes) just because it's so ubiquitous.

 

It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism.

 

I actually like the design. Problem is I don't understand it, I would like to know why exactly they designed it that and what it means. From my perspective it looks like a key hole but that's just mine. At least with the capital U you'd know that it represents Uber.

 
FinanceBrah:

This is what happens when your CEO has never been smacked in the face before but everyone is afraid to say no to him anyway.

This.

What the fuck were they thinking? What am I even looking at? The original looked infinitely better.

 

Maybe I’m too much of a numbers and fact based person who likes spreadsheets and when shit is well written in an unformatted Word doc but I laugh at and often hate design people. A CEO of a grossly overvalued company who gives two shits and spent that much time thinking about pastel pixels when he should be concerned about his company should be shitcanned. My brother is in advertising on the creative side and he’ll sit there and contemplate hundreds of font styles like Kant contemplated epistomology. I just don’t get it. I’ve wasted countless hours listening to design people talking to me about logos, colors that are so close to each other that they’re hardly discernible but they seem to think will make or break a company, and annoying shit like that and then when something is successful they’ll actually take partial credit because the website had Caribbean blue instead of Honolulu blue.

And the new Uber logo looks pretty dumb regardless. Isn't it basically the thing that spins when you’re downloading an app from Apple? I’m not quite sure how anyone could spend years coming up with that.

 

It's too fucking easy to get food. I don't understand. Do people actually want all these fucking Muslims around?

heister: Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad. https://arthuxtable.com/
 

Private jets, boats, rental cars, now helicopters.... There seems to be a lot of transportation focused "next Ubers".

Not sure I really buy any of them. None of them are broad enough to really scale to any meaningful measure.

I'm aware that there are people that go to the hamptons that would pay $700/seat each way (plus surge pricing), but that's a limited group. This could be successful in 2-5 limited routes, but not broad appeal.

I'm probably just below or at the low end of some of these target audiences and I like the idea, but I haven't seen much that's actually appealing when you look at th details. I actually would love to fly private and would pay a premium to do so, but i tried to see if it was possible to get my family from Chicago to Phoenixnfor a 4 day weekend and it was crazy. The money was way too much and even with the expense scheduling would have been an absolute nightmare.

twitter: @CorpFin_Guy
 

That price is per seat, each direction, though you'll observe greater variance between weeekdays/weekends as well as holidays and June vs. July/August. It's about an hour. It beats sitting in traffic on I-495 in Queens and again on Montauk Highway as it snakes through the Hamptons proper

 

Why are they a "technology start-up"?

Why do they call it the "old economy" when you book your flight by phoning the firm, but when somebody puts together a mediocre app they are suddenly a tech start-up?

 

Uber is amazing and I've used it in multiple cities. Although you pay a premium, it is absolutely worth it to have competent drivers and a clean, safe town car. Uber just issued a petition trying to save themselves in Dallas because the local cabbies aren't too happy with them moving in and are trying to pass last minute laws that would be the end to Uber there... should be interesting to see what happens and if other local cab companies in other cities attempt to do the same.

 

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"I saw Warren Buffett last week and he said, 'John, I like to invest in companies with business models so simple, even an idiot could run them." - John Stumpf
 

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I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. See my Blog & AMA

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GameTheory
98.9
10
numi's picture
numi
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”