How much money would you be willing to take out in student loans?

Okay thanks, and yeah my family is super Catholic and very involved in our parish so I could look there. Thanks.

Any other opinions? And I should've added that I think I'll be a very competitive applicant for a local scholarship that gives a full ride to Notre Dame. What if I got that scholarship? I know Notre Dame is only semi-target (some would argue it's fully a target), but if I could go for free? I don't know. Any more advice is greatly appreciated!

I will graduate with 8k in loans. I would never take out more loans than that.

You'd have plenty of opportunity coming out of Notre Dame if you really work for it. I wouldn't be able to turn down a full ride there. Definitely do that instead of taking out $100k in loans.

Do you have any AP credits? My school (target) gives a TON of credits to AP scores of 4 or 5, enough so that I could have fairly easily graduated in 3 years (dragged it out to 3 and one part-time semester for internship purposes). I took out about $70k to attend my school. Fortunately, it's only at a 2.5% rate so I can take my sweet time paying it off.

With such high scores, are you currently ranked in top 10 at your HS? If there is probably many available local & maybe national scholarships you can probably take. But honestly take an IVY or top 10 school for that matter.

After you find out where you've been accepted there will be clear tiers. Just take the cheapest option in the top tier.

It's good you're thinking ahead. But apply first, get into the best schools you can, gather the financial data, and ask again next year.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I came from a non-target and am on the buy side now mainly as a result of networking. I think that you can still get into banking from many schools, but Ivy will make it much easier at some of the top places. I interviewed at several BB out of college and found that I was often the only kid not with a prestigious school on my resume. That said, I think that ND is also a great choice if Ivy doesn't work out especially if you want to end up in Chicago. The alumni network for ND is top notch in Chicago and they love to hire their own. You will always have b-school as well to get an Ivy school on resume. I have seen plenty of kids get into top b-schools from semi-targets and even non-targets. The takeaway is that Ivy just tends to make things easier, but you still have to put in the work and not expect everything to fall in your lap.

Student loans are the next bubble

This also depends on what state schools look like. If you're lucky enough to live in Michigan, Texas ect. it might be something to consider.

However, as mentioned above, apply first. College admissions is a crapshoot---even with a 36. You never know what will happen.

Go to the best school you can

It's a no brainer. There are very few people that have probably regretted attenting HYP. I would have happily spent $150K on HYP. You'll come out of school making more money than virtually everyone else on the planet and your income will only rise from there. After a few solid bonuses you should be able to cut that debt load in half.

Harvard has a tuition aid calculator on its site somewere.

Think about this in terms of your monthly payments after graduating. 120k will be in the neighborhood of 1200-1500/month minimum payment for 10 years. What type of salary (after taxes) do you need to live comfortably and make those payments? If you end up in BB IBD that's not so bad, but you are only junior in high school and taking out that much debt makes you rather inflexible in your future career choice.

If you can get a full ride to a place like Notre Dame that has great placements I would take it over the above scenario.

Also, don't be afraid to ask for more money from the schools you get into. Many will give more aid if you ask.

As a kid at a non-target, I would not think twice about taking out $100,000+ to attend HYP. I am not sure Harvard or Yale offer this (they probably do), but Princeton offers financial aid to everyone, even kids with very rich parents (do some Googling, they have a page for this).

efeens15:

I'm currently a junior in high school, but I have some pretty good stats (I have a 36 on the ACT), so I'm looking ahead and anticipating at least a couple of Ivy League acceptances and acceptances to top privates and publics; basically, target schools. However, my parents aren't in any real place to help me pay for much more than $15,000 or so a year, and because of their income bracket ($150k-175k), I won't qualify for much aid outside of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, and I can't rely on getting accepted into any of those schools.

So, my choices at this point are either taking merit aid at a lower public or lower private (non-targets) or taking out a massive amount in loans to go to a top public/private or Ivy League school. Would any of you take out $120k+ in student loans to be able to go to a top-tier target school?

ntbw but 150k-175k is a hell of a lot better than where my parents were. They contributed $0 to my education, and I got no need-based aid. You just take out loans and deal with it... Get a good job and it isn't that hard to payy off!

xoxo

Go to the best school you can. I regret going to the shitty state school for less money.

Does it really help THAT much to go to a target over a semi-target or non-target? I just don't know...$100k+ in student debt just seems like it could be so easy to completely and utterly destroy my entire life.

Get accepted, I have a good friend 36 act perfect grades. Dinged from every ivy got into northwestern only. He also had the money to go to any of those schools.

If your worried about loans look into schools that are top tier but also have good aid or auto Scholarships like - UVA, IU,Wustl, even NYU sometimes give scholarships to top kids and such- So when you apply keep some tier below iveys and try to get Aid there. Because when it comes down to it schools like USC have presidential scholarships for a full ride on academics, and most kids just shoot for iveys and didnt even apply to USC and things can spiral into going to a state school once aid that comes back isnt what they expected.

EDIT: Notre Dame has a big Fit factor on religion and stuff if you into that- and I know Notre Dame has weak aid besides need from what I've heard.

Yeah I know, 36 doesn't really mean anything anymore. I'm not getting cocky over it.

But CRE, what if it was H Y or P vs. full ride to Notre Dame?

I think most former non-target students here have made it very clear: go to the best school you can.

Seriously.

Should I apply to more Ivies then? Like include Dartmouth and Columbia in my list? And more top schools, like Duke, NYU, etc.?

There's a lot to be said for going to the best college possible. That said I went to a semi-target undergrad where I did really well and only paid tuition one year because of scholarships. You can always network your way into a good job from a semi-target state school (I'm thinking places like UIUC, UCLA, UVa, etc) or if you do well in undergrad leverage that into a grad position at a target school afterward. I went for the latter option.

I went to an expensive non-target school. The reasons I went were personal, and that I liked the school. Go to the school that gives you the best value in your opinion. Value factors for school are types of classes, alumni network, other measurable data and HOW YOU CONNECT at the school. Make sure you have a good time and you connected well at the school before deciding. This means visit your top choices and go from there.

I think you know that the school is only one factor and an important one, but how you network and pursue employers while at school will decide whether or not you get the job. Good luck to you and take your time. There is no reason to be in a rush. You're in a good class timing wise.

If you go to a target, it does make it easier than going to a non-target, obviously.

But wherever you go, you will still have to network, although at a non-target you may to network your ass off. I know a friend of a friend who went to Arizona State University, networked his ass off, and landed in MS M&A in NYC, and he came from a blue-collar family.

If you network like crazy, anything is possible, and target vs non-target becomes irrelevant.

I go to a non-target, I'm currently a freshman, but I have already started networking, cold-emailing, cold calling. If you a determined to make it happen, it will.

I personally would not take anything above 30K in loans. Hell, even 30K is too much. If you get a full-ride somewhere, take it, then network like a motherfucker.

the fees add up if you just apply to a lot of schools blindly. it's also pretty dangerous to say, "i will be making x" or that you will definitely go into banking. i think any amount of debt is worth it if you really like the school, just don't focus on your 8 year career track. also, since you talk about banking, consider that you might end up going for an mba after 2 years which means more debt.

If it's a top-tier school that you get into, I would take out as much in student loans as is necessary to go. The only mitigating situation would be if you live in Virginia, Michigan, NC or Texas, in which case you might give some consideration to the superb state schools.

I wish I had some of your parents. "I only have $6k, 10k, etc. in loans."

Reality is not all people have that resource. Base it off of employment opportunities. If you want IB, and get into a target, go for it. But if you want IB, don't go for it with loans on a non-target, because you aren't going to have the earnings potential to dig yourself out of the hole you will be in.

Out of curiosity, what part of Ohio are you from? I ask because there was a similar competitive scholarship that offered a full ride to Notre Dame in my Ohio town.

You should come back in a year when you have your acceptances in hand before we discuss this. I've found that it's not best to be too confident going into college admissions. I have stats similar to yours but didn't get into any Ivy even though I was certain I would -- turns out stats aren't everything (gasp). But I am still at a top target so things are good ^_^

Now, assuming you are set on finance, I don't see 100k as being a deterrent to NOT go to HYPSM, Columbia, Chicago, et al. ND is a good choice too. Hey, are you a National Merit Finalist? University of Southern California (USC) offers half-tuition to all NMFs who get accepted, and they also have tons of merit scholarships, including many full-tuition ones. You just have to send in your application early -- sometime before early December. USC is pretty liberal with scholarships and being from Ohio, you have a good shot.

Of course, make sure you are set on finance and are willing to stick with it. And apply for the same major at all your schools, crafting your application to fit that major. I wavered between econ and pre-med and that really hurt my college applications.

I didn't start in banking but am doing it now. I got lateral hire interviews exclusively based on the fact that I went to a target. Everyone you graduate with will be at a top firm and you will have connections in every part of the country and in any industry. To put the cost into perspective, you should mentally amortize the loans over your lifetime, then it doesn't seem as bad...

But this is all a moot point until you get in. Good luck with the crap shoot that is the college admission process!

Seriously, thank you, all of you. You're helping me sort this all out in a really stressful time, both for myself academically and my family financially.

To answer some questions: yes, I will more than likely be a NMF (I don't find out if I'm even a semi-finalist until September; however, my PSAT score is well within the range and my SAT score is more than enough to ensure II'll be a finalist). I've also looked at USC but in my (limited) experience on this board, USC doesn't seem to get mmuch respect. And I'd kind of rather live in NYC, but that could easily change, as I've never even been to LA.

@hak, I live in central Ohio. We're probably thinking of the same scholarship haha.

@ricky, recommend any books? I'm also interested in reading more on the lifestyles of those in finance on the street and whatnot, whether or not they're glamorous accounts.

And @northsider, I'm basically coming to the conclusion that even if I don't get IBD from a top target and I graduate with a lot of debt, I'd be okay because I'd have an economics degree from a school like HYPS? Is that correct? My parents are skeptical about letting me take on a lot of debt and I've tried to use that point as an argument in my favor.

And I completely understand I will know more in a year or so when I have my acceptances. I just kind of wanted to get an idea because it might shape what schools to apply to (I might apply to less schools I know I can afford apply instead to top targets).

Lastly, thanks again. The advice I've gotten here has solidified in my mind that this board and you guys fucking rock haha.

Prudent companies take on debt all the time in order to amplify their returns. I don’t see why your life should be any different – especially when you’ll have more than enough time to recover financially.

College is really a time in which you figure out a lot about what matters most to you. Many of the academic, social, and cultural experiences you’ll have aren’t really quantifiable or easy to forecast at this stage. For example, meeting your future spouse, a particularly inspiring professor that influences how you look at the world, lifelong friends, or a future business partner during college are all worth $120K in debt. Influential people are quite rare and going to a top school ensures that you’ll get the most exposure to them.

That said, if you’re looking at six figures of debt, think very carefully about what you want to do after college. The decision to take on debt is a no-brainer if you’re going into IBD or top-tier consulting. The decision is more difficult if you want to straight to med/law/grad school or join a non-profit like Teach for America, or be an entrepreneur for 2 reasons. First, you don’t need a great undergrad in order to get into a top grad program and TFA. Academic performance matters more. (I will say this though, liberal arts majors at Ivies benefit a ton from a grade inflation.) Second, you won’t make enough money to pay down the debt load while being able to enjoy life the way you want.

This discussion has been debated so many times.

1st of all, unless you are a complete tool you will not rack up loans of more than $20k at many if not all targets. 2nd, there's really no debate because even if you had $100k in loans, a couple of bonuses and frugality will erase that debt in less than 3 years.
Last but not least, you want to work in high finance. At the core of high finance is probability, the probability that you will get into high finance from a target school is exponentially higher than a semi or non target. Just do the math and you'll easily wonder why you even pondered the question because the answer will smack you right in the face.

A lot of different opinions here...once you see where you got in you'll be able to better asses your position. I think HYP are the only schools that MAY be worth a large loan commitment, but that is also contested if you get into other top schools with minimum loans.

As others have voiced, you can always make it into banking through networking and persistence, though it does get exceedingly more difficult as you move down to non-target territory. A lot of "semi" targets have very strong presences in middle market and regional boutiques though. I'd recommended considering where the schools usually place people and what path you are most interested in.

On another note, I'll be trying to help my younger brother prep for his SAT/ACTs this summer. Any advice on what worked for you?

Hi, I'm the resident contrarian on the boards, so I have to make some points for Notre Dame.

Two questions:

1.) OP what do you want to major in? A liberal art? Engineering? Chemistry? 2.) What kind of person do you want to be in four years? Do you want to be the well-grounded, scrappy kid from the Catholic school or do you want to be the guy from some Northeastern Ivy League school?

Three thoughts:

1.) There's a big cultural gap between the East Coast and Illinois, and I'm guessing that gap is just as big between the East Coast and Ohio. 2.) There is a lot of peer pressure (especially from WSO and your classmates) to take the most prestigious school you get into. You need to resist that and try and figure out what will make you happy. A lot of folks out there are very focused on what they wish they could have rather than focused on enjoying what they do have. If we all learned to be content with what we have, we'd all be a lot happier and a lot less worried about schools. 3.) There ARE people out there who regret going to Princeton. Studying art history, graduating $150K in debt, and having a $15/hour job sucks.

A devout Catholic from a Catholic family in Ohio going to Notre Dame just comes off as really genuine. People will like this story to the extent that it will make up for much of the prestige gap between ND and the Ivies, at least in my experience from the Quant world and Sales and Trading (this may be less true for IBD, where prestige is more important and people crank out 100 hour workweeks). There also isn't that big of a prestige gap between Notre Dame and the Ivies, BTW. You'll find Domers as MDs at most NYC banks and most Chicago prop shops will have at least one partner from ND. The network isn't quite as ubiquitous as Cornell or UPenn in NYC due to numbers and geography, but it's still a legitimate top tier school.

Beyond that, you'll have to figure out what the student debt and the grounding a Midwestern Catholic education provides are worth to you.

I will say that if you can pull off a 3.8 GPA at Notre Dame, the question is no longer "Who is better in terms of resumes?" but rather is "Who do I want to work with?" This is where the genuine factor, along with being a good interviewer, can really help.

efeens15:

I'm currently a junior in high school, but I have some pretty good stats (I have a 36 on the ACT), so I'm looking ahead and anticipating at least a couple of Ivy League acceptances and acceptances to top privates and publics; basically, target schools. However, my parents aren't in any real place to help me pay for much more than $15,000 or so a year, and because of their income bracket ($150k-175k), I won't qualify for much aid outside of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, and I can't rely on getting accepted into any of those schools.

So, my choices at this point are either taking merit aid at a lower public or lower private (non-targets) or taking out a massive amount in loans to go to a top public/private or Ivy League school. Would any of you take out $120k+ in student loans to be able to go to a top-tier target school?

HYP will give you need base aid. Take out loans to make up the difference. It's worth it. Paying the loans off isn't difficult if you get a job out of school.

For those who say take HYP, everything has a price. What, in dollar terms, is the HYP premium worth over Notre Dame? If HYP charged $10 million in tuition for four years, would it still be worth it?

Does your school traditionally place its top students into Ivy Leagues? Honestly, if your school has as few as 5 APs, I wouldn't be surprised if no one gets into an Ivy League.

By the way, as someone who's just been through the college process, SAT and ACT mean nothing. As long as you have at least a 2100/32 or higher, it doesn't really matter. It's just to make sure that they don't have to immediately throw your app in the trash.

Anyways, you should definitely be applying to a huge range of schools, including what you consider "second-tier" schools. I applied to 21 schools and even though I'm not going to be needing a lot of the acceptance letters I got, I don't regret it at all. This is the next 4 years of your life and your future career, so keep your options as available as possible.

As for the main question of money, apply to every scholarship you can find, especially merit-based ones because of your parents' income. I have a number of friends who got a lot of money by just spreading the net with scholarships.

As IlliniProgrammer said, it depends on:

A) What is your major going to be B) What career path you want to choose

Don't go to an Ivy and get a major in arts. You might end up like so many people that have $100k+ in student loans, and a job paying +40k/year. My personal experience is on the engineering field. I went to a state school. I got a job in a nice engineering company, working alongside people who graduated from Ivies, MIT, Cornell, you name it. From my experience, it is all the same. We read the same books. The only difference is that their professors wrote those books, and had higher salaries than my professors. We have similar salaries, but I get to keep more than them since I don't have to pay anything to student loans. To the contrary, I actually made money while being on college. And I only did 1 internship, when I could have made four! (I liked having my summers off too much).

The funny thing is that I learned that it does not matter what university you go way before joining the workforce. I have a friend whose significant other went to MIT, while he was at my state college. He was smarter than her to the point that he tutored her. She graduated with top honors from MIT, and so did he from his state school. Today, they both work as engineers and he is doing better than her. As someone said before, your school only matters for that first interview. After that, it is your work experience and achievements in the workforce that matter the most.

If you think a $100k is worth that interview, go for it. I don't think it is worth it to have a debt load this high coming out of college. As someone said, if you want that Ivy mark on your resume, you can always put it later in your career with an MBA. You will have a better idea at that point that you really want to be in banking. It would be bad to go to an Ivy, get out with $100k in debt, only to find out that you hate banking and that the job you really want does not pays enough to pay the monthly payments comfortably.

Now, if the Ivy gives you some scholarship (in writing) that pays for most of it, such that your debt is below 30-40k, then by all means go for the Ivy. Under no circumstance get a debt larger than $100k+. As I said before, if you find out you really like banking (only can find this answer when actually working in banking), you can go for an Ivy MBA, at which point I hope you saved your first 2 bonuses to help pay that tuition. Nowadays, you have to do a Masters in almost all fields. Reserve the higher sticker price to graduate school. Get into a good enough undergraduate school and get amazing grades would be my advice.