What kind of b-school can I get into?

well actually I havent even taken the GMAT yet i'm just throwing an estimate out there, so i think 740 could be doable.

As far as letters of recommendation go, I guess another question I have is what exactly is a good letter of recommendation?

Is it from someone high up? Someone basically saying that they highly recommend you? That you helped the company greatly?

So far these are the recs I see myself getting.. 1. ) I think I can get someone who is VP-level at the company i'm working at in China to write me a good letter. VP-level at a manufacturing company like this is probably in charge of ~ 500 people. In CHina, basically everybody is chill as hell and they don't really care if they lie or break rules or anything. I can probably convince him to let me write my own letter and have him sign off.

2. ) A professor at one of my classes. I am on good terms with him. I audited his classes voluntarily and always performed well and showed an interest in all the material. Met up with him personally 1:1 several times for happy hour. He himself is a part-time professor and manages several billion $$ as a private wealth manager. Keep in touch with him.

I guess, what can i do NOW that will improve my chances at a top bschool? I've got lets say 1 year left. Do something extracurricular? Up the GMAT from 720 to 740? Any higher than that i dont know if i can achieve.

I definitely think I can do better than top 25/30 though, as my brother got wailisted at top 15, and is at a ~ 15-20 bschool, and his work experience /gmat were worse than mine.

by the way, does anyone have some sort of database where i can read personal statement essays or essays for business school? I think it will give me some inspiration and ideas to write about?

In all honesty, you can get all of your recs from industry if you would like at this point- certainly for an MBA program. You don't have to go scrounging around the engineering department for professors who probably barely remember their current students, let alone ones from five years ago if you can do better in industry.

I would look for references from your mentors at work and maybe one from Boeing if you're not at the firm anymore- it's more important to find people who like you (and you kind of report to in some way) than it is to find someone who's 2-3 levels up. They need to talk about your personal skills, strengths as an engineer, highlights of your experience, and everything else. You typically need three strong references for most programs written in excellent English.

Well actually the thing is, i switch managers so damn often that i've had 5 managers in the past 3 years. So, I don't know, the site leader likes me, but he isn't even a manager. How much does it matter their title?

These professors are recent professors, i've been taking real estate classes. These are professors i've met in the past year or so.

Title matters much less than function. If you provide a service for them and they have some sort of credential that indicates you report to them in the hierarchy and they're a good person to evaluate your candidacy for B-school, they make a good reference.

Does the site leader have a college degree? How long has he been in industry? If he's got a bachelor's and has been in industry for five more years than you and you work with him pretty closely, he could be a good candidate.

At some point, there is a bit of a balancing act between credentials and strength of reference. But in general, it's better to get a strong reference from someone with weaker credentials than a weak reference from someone with strong credentials.

Yea he has a bachelor's and has been in china for 11 years, boeing for about 30. Its not rare whatsoever to work with people who've been with Boeing their entire life.

Also, a pretty stupid question.. How does one go about asking for a letter of recommendation. You ask him, and he provides it to you via ?? sealed envelope? emails it to you? Prints it on letterhead?

Typically, he'll submit it directly to the school using a link you provide him with.

It's kind of an awkward process to say, "Uhh, I'm leaving. Can I get a rec?" You have to start dropping minor hints to your immediate manager and close friends that you're thinking about grad school. At some point, asking for a rec will feel a little less uncomfortable, and, assuming you're in the window where he can go ahead and submit the reference, that's probably the time for you to ask.

So at no point do you get to proofread the letter to make sure he's not badmouthing you? Haha, man i guess you have to be pretty careful with who you choose.

Yes. They will have to log into each site, copy and paste the reference in, and often answer other questions.

Your job is to make this as easy and painless as possible for them. Ideally, you want to give them a month or two before your first reference is due.

So at no point do you get to proofread the letter to make sure he's not badmouthing you? Haha, man i guess you have to be pretty careful with who you choose.

You have absolutely no chance whatsoever at a top 10. To be honest, you are actually below what one would consider a "mediocre" candidate.

Find a good school close enough to drive to and take some grad classes to offset that low GPA. Get involved with some local groups or charities and get on their board. I would give yourself at least a year of two to revamp your resume. Look into a mini MBA or a certification program. This is your chance to really increase your GPA.

Since you are an engineer you might want to look at MFE programs. They are only 1 year long, focus more on your quant scores and can place you on WS. This might be a more viable option since I agree with most everyone in saying you are a so so candidate for even 20-30 schools.

On what basis are you saying that NY?

If he were an MS candidate straight out of school, yes, he'd be a weak candidate because of the GPA. However, GPA really stops being a big deal about five or six years out of school. My classmate from UIUC who managed to squeak by with a 2.1 GPA and wound up at Microsoft will probably be a very competitive candidate at Wharton or Northwestern in a few years if he gets the test scores and references.

It's hard to wrap your head around at first, but GPA is typically a more minor consideration than you would think.

Agree with Anthony on getting involved in some sort of extracurricular activity. I still think that Haas or a similar public Ivy is a strong possibility with outstanding references, essays, and a GMAT of 750, however.

I am curious to know how much my expat experience is setting me apart from a work experience of say,

5 years at Boeing in the states

vs

3 yrs in USA, 2 yrs in china.

or 4 yrs in USA 1 yr in china. At what point does the expat experience start to really add to my application? 1 yr? 2 yr? Of course 1 is better than 0, 2 is probably better than 1. I guess which combination is the strongest bschool app?

5 years in usa 4 yrs in usa 1 in china 3 yrs in usa 2 in china 2 yrs in usa 3 in china 1 yr in usa 4 in china...

also, does it help at all to switch countries more often??

2 yrs china 2 yrs usa , 1 yr japan for ex. 1 yr china, 1 yr japan, 1 yr turkey, 2 yrs usa...

THanks for your opinions !!

anthony, i have taken about 7 real estate classes ( my interest and what i hope to specialize in MBA ) with a gpa of ~ 3.7. They are all community college classes, however.

Hmmmm, maybe you should call up some adcoms.

How about this. Pick 2 top schools and 2 reach schools. Apply and see what happens. If you get none of them you know you need to work on some stuff. If you get some interviews you can build on that relationship and get feedback in case you don't get in.

Have you looked into a MS in Real Estate? NYU, Cornell, MIT, Georgetown all have them. Might save you some time and money to go that route.

I haven't looked at a MS in real estate since I think a MBA should provide me many of the same opportunities as a MS in real estate, while being more versitile. Also, although real estate is my interest now, I'm not so sure about it that I want to pursue such a specific masters.

I was really hoping to achieve a 4.0 for at least my real estate classes, but unfortunately A- counts as 3.7 at the school i was taking classes at. And i got a B or two.

What city is close to you?

Seattle will be the city close to me, and San francisco is where i hope to move to.

http://www.foster.washington.edu/centers/gbc/Pages/gbcertificate.aspx

How about something like this?

that would be an option to consider, but that is also an MBA program. Are you recommending that program to me because it is "global" ?

Ok, so you are in WA, but want to work in Cali. B Schools of interest should be UCLA, Berkley, USC, Stanford. I think you might be able to get into say USC, but you should really go for Berk, UCLA and Stanford IMO. I think you need a year or so to add flavor to your resume before you would have a shot at these schools. You could apply with your CC grades or you could add a reputable business school on your resume while building your EC's.

Right now I think you should just apply to UCLA and USC, maybe Berk. See if you get in or get interviews. Once you find that out you can do things appropriately.

right, berkeley is really the school i want to go to. I still have some time here in china. Actually, those stats are my forecasted stats. I have just about 1 year of China experience and 3 yrs USA experience so far. So i have over 1 year to go before b-school.

Ok, good, get on the board of something mushy and build that up. I would consider one of those cert programs also. Keep plugging away, I think you can get into these schools with a little effort.

How much can one exaggerate on these extracurriculars? I mean, i'm in China. How would they go and verify something that I claim to do?

Do you kmnow where I can read some personal statements / bschool app essays to get some inspiration and ideas?

You can find services that will do it all for you. Business schools hate them, but I don't think there is anything wrong. They whole application process is bullshit anyway.

Isn't USC's RE program a top 5 program in the US? That would definitely be a great route if you want to break into Cali RE.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/sppd/lusk/

Looks pretty good.

^ Yeah, I'm not a RE guy, but I remember reading somewhere on WSO that USC's RE program is a top 5 US program. RE being a local game, it's probably a perfect option for the OP if Berkeley doesn't work out (might even be a better option).

Don't be afraid to shoot for the stars, just hedge your bets with some realistic schools. How you write your essays, show your impact to the groups you belong to, and your passion for why you must go to that school can go a long way. This is coming from someone who made CBS, Chicago, Stern, and Darden with a sub 3.0 GPA.

These questions are damn near impossible without reading your essays. B-school admissions are not at all formulaic. It's not like law school where they just multiply LSAT and GPA x 10 and say thumbs up/down. The only time a 780 is better than a 720 is if you are literally identical with another candidate and they need a tie breaker.

People on this board, in their infinite 22 year old wisdom, think it's all GMAT but nothing could be further from the truth.

Don't worry about extracurriculars. They only become relevant if you have done something extremely impressive.

If you can successfully answer why mba.why here.why now, you should have a shot at a top 20-15 school. If you are a URM, you have a shot everywhere.