What makes you think a person is smart after a 5-min chat?
Hi guys,
I've heard people say this over and over that they've met someone who they think are incredibly smart after meeting them for only ~5 minutes. Of course I've met some genius in school, but outside academic context, I've never formed such perception on anyone I only had a short conversation with. The closet one would be someone who's really clear on his/her goal and set up a plan to achieve the target efficiently, or who's very knowledgable in one particular field.
If you have similar experience, I'm curious what did the person say or do made you think this way. What topics did you guys discuss?
Appreciate any thoughts and/or anecdotes.
If you have deep knowledge in a certain domain, you can find out how smart someone else in the field is and how much they know with a short conversation. You'd have to get into the weeds right away, but that can happen when people who are intensely interested in the same thing meet each other.
In general, I hesitate to judge someone's intelligence from a short, casual conversation. Some people present much better than others, but polish and superficial impressiveness isn't that highly correlated with intelligence. You have to get past that and see what they can actually do.
When I want to get a quick sense of someone's intelligence, I try to find something technical or otherwise serious that they've written. People who've done graduate degrees often have theses or academic papers posted online that you can find in a minute of googling. Much harder to bullshit in writing than in person.
The question at hand is not easy to answer. Reason: 1) there are different types of intelligence There is factual knowledge in areas like finance, engineering, science or medicine (or other areas). But then there is also intelligence in the arts/spatial, intra/interpersonal, cultural, logic, etc - it is difficult to see this within a few minutes. However, you can spot whether someone is open-minded, worldly, and social enough to engage in interesting discussions in a short moment. You will notice non-verbal clues like body language and enthusiasm, passion, but also tone of voice/patterns.
2) some people might be very intelligent in certain areas, but entirely clueless in others. Unless you deep dive quickly, this is difficult. Basically, this would be something you'd try to focus on in a job interview.
3) some may have a very high level of intellect in many areas, but is not able to deep dive. Thy typical generalist comes to mind. Knows a lot, has worked in many different projects/industries - but not able to get into the details all the time.
4) depending on the setting, people, cultures, employers or situations, intelligence might mean something different to individuals or the "measured" level is fluid Happens often in academic settings - the students are only as smart as compared to the collective. If you have a huge group of really smart friends and colleagues, that short discussion with a person with above average intelligence might not be enticing at all. But if your friends and family are not intellectuals or simply interested in other things, even an average person you'll meet might be impressive after a few minutes.
If someone quotes Rick and Morty in casual conversation, I know I am speaking to a very smart and talented individual. Phrases like Awww jeez Rick, Wubbalubbadubdub, I'm Pickle Riiiiiiick, or You are a piece of shit and I can prove it mathematically let me know that the person is destined to be a rainmaker, fund manager, or other industry equivalent.
fuck, he's not wrong
![https://external-preview.redd.it/jL5JsGOEZw8jc6wQJHw8tKETxFZtr-rH--jovO…]
Edit: I don't actually watch the show, just here for the memes - haha
You just did four direct quotes sir, can you add me to your LinkedIn sometime?
My best friend got an offer at one of the worlds biggest hedge funds like this. After he asked them their question at the end of their interview, they did their spiel about contacting them for the next steps. As he got up to leave, they asked "oh, Phat's Friend! Wait. Is there a reason we should hire you?" My friend responded with " I'm Pickle Riiiiick!" They offered him a position on the spot. They told him they needed a Morty on their team.
Gotta love Two Sigma
True, everyone has a different definition for "being smart". Guess a better way to frame my question is:
a) let's say you're on the first date, I suppose you and your date would not go deep into a specialized subject which you know a lot more than her (e.g. finance, your research topics, etc) or the other way around. If you two just chat about hobbies, work, family and small things like these, what makes one girl seem smarter than others over a 30-minute dinner, assuming they all share similar backgrounds?
b) during an interview/coffee chat, what kind of questions/topics would differentiate extremely smart kids from other candidates, assuming their grasps of finance concepts are on the same level?
At least for a date, I think I’d be impressed if she is relating her experiences to unique concepts and algorithms that are consistent through her life’s narrative, both on a macro and micro level. This would suggest she interacts with the world in a thoughtful and self-aware way, and I think that is really impressive.
![https://media.tenor.com/images/8c823151e3b4e9d1d734073703b28876/tenor.g…] [https://media.tenor.com/images/8c823151e3b4e9d1d734073703b28876/tenor.g… https://media.tenor.com/images/8c823151e3b4e9d1d734073703b28876/tenor.g…
Found the cereal killer
I had no idea the main character in "You" posts on WSO. This site is more popular than I could have ever imagined.
I am very curious as to if this is actually a viable time tested dating strategy or not.
for a date, I’d be impressed if boobs = perky and ass = phat
a) first date I had quite a few dates, so here is my take. Intelligent women, IMO, are the ones who seem to have a "normal" life, while making it look effortless. Think about the huge amount of women you have met/dated in your life. How many truly had their lives together? If I meet a girl who has a decent full-time job, lives on her own in a good area, respects herself/her family/people around her, is not solely focused on money/wealth, is aware of her health/looks/style without being obsessed with them, and has had healthy relationship with men (not codependent, not abusive, weird gender roles, ..) - then I would say she could be mature beyond her years. Being in a "normal" situation in life takes a lot of effort and intelligence. On the outside, many of my friends may look boring or average, but it requires long-term work and discipline to get there.
I have had so many dates with girls who had nothing to offer but looks and a sense of fashion while going to the stylist every other week. While I appreciate these efforts and see value in them (for both men/women), there is more to life.
edit: this is, of course, applicable to men and women.
I think in the first example it may be somewhat easy to tell if a potential partner is a total idiot but a lot more challenging to judge someone's absolute intelligence in what's often an awkward way to get to know someone, especially if they're not inclined to flex their intelligence too much. Until I really started talking to her, I kinda thought my current significant other was just a silly partier who does so-so in school and has no ambition. Turns out, she's getting around a 3.7 in pre-med, outscored me on the SAT by 30 points, and had an incredible summer research job lined up in Europe (until it was cancelled due to covid-19). Sure, first impressions may often seem the best way to judge someone. But they're often wrong.
One that ticks the box for me is if someone has the confidence and ability to recognize when he / she isn't knowledgeable on a topic and can ask for help or straight up admit to not knowing something.
Intellectual maturity rather than raw intellect is impressive. When someone clearly knows their stuff but is able to adapt how they say it based on who they're saying it to.
Here are a few which make me think they are not.
1: They spit out every thought they have 2: They listen. Many times, I have a conversation with people on a topic we have opposite opinions. Even before I begin speaking, they have made up their mind, and just wait to speak with no interest whatsoever in an opinion different to theirs. 3: They assume they know everything (relates to 2). 4: They try to steer the conversation to them. 5: Bragging and complaining.
Have you never met an arrogant smart person?
Arrogancy is most often triggered by insesucity or the need of one to fulfill their desire of expressing their superiority (on a specific topic or their life "status" in general). For me that's someone who often can't face their own issues. In either case, yes, they might be extremely smart.
This a 100 times.
Very worried that there are so many ppl like this. They think they're so smart but if you point out flaws in their arguments, they get busy trying to deflect or get emotional.
These "quasi-intellectuals" are my biggest fear. Learn one thing, assume 100 more (wrongly) and pretend to be an expert. Truly intellectual person should be able to learn 1 thing, figure out 100 more things to learn about.
Little humility never hurts anyone.....
Yes. Sounds crunchy af but the more you learn, the more you know how much more you don't know (Einstein words). The point is that knowledge raises awareness, and when you stay in your little shell, self-inflating your knowledge, the outcome can only be one in an argument, which is emotional, since you don't have the intellectual horsepower to comeback or the awareness to admit your flaws.
Concise and to the point.
Sounds very simple, but it's difficult and takes a lot of practice. The vehicle that enables people to be concise is actually knowledge. 'To the point' is actually learning to listen, and breakdown the topic of conversation to its bare bones whilst construct the answers and strip the answers to its bare bones. All of these stuff is happening in your brain on the fly whilst you are talking.
People who talks a lot of empty words after 5min of conversation you realise there's v little information that's between transferred in this conversation.
Great point, but super hard in practice.
Just how they articulate themselves. And maybe even long awkward pauses (for thinking maybe). In general I find that really intelligent people are a bit socially awkward...
Exactly, Musk is a perfect example.
If they like Huey Lewis and the News
Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes
After 5 mins is bullshit and all confidence tricks/being well-spoken. You want to see how intelligent someone is put them in a situation they've never been in before and see what happens.
I couldnt disagree more. However, that may stem from how I evaluate someone's intelligence compared to how you do. To me, the two fundamental attributes of an intelligent person are the ability to clearly and articulately lay out and support an argument and the ability to think on the fly. I do not tend to consider someone's expertise on a particular matter a sign of intelligence based on the fact that they might just devote their entire intellectual horsepower to that subject and nothing else; while there are certainly exceptions, i think this concept of intelligence is more telling of passion than genius.
Have you ever asked someone a loaded questions, and then watched them briefly pause, deliberate their answer, and then deliver a college-essay caliber response? It is truly a work of beauty that few are able to do to the extent that I am talking about. There are definitely some fund managers that fall into this category, namely Julian Robertson. I am so fascinated by some people's natural ability to think so structured and composed.
If they are able to point out a nuance/twist that I didn't think about
If they are ok with the occasional spanking.
THIS ^^^
Tbh, I think it's generally not possible to grasp someone's full intellectual capability in just 5 minutes. Maybe just a little bit.
Some people can definitely fool you by saying some practiced stuff that sounds insightful and smart. Or sth that sounds right at the moment but actually isn't. Then you start asking some follow-up questions and they have nothing to say.
I wonder how long it took Masayoshi Son took to decide to give money to Adam Neumann. Guy admitted that he decided to invest in Alibaba after his first meeting with Jack Ma. I'd never be so confident in my (or anyone's) ability to understand someone's intellectual capabilities.
I wanted to give you a hard time for asking a question like this, but "smart" is pretty subjective. Someone may be very good with people and bad with numbers, are they "smart"? What about if someone is great with numbers and terrible with people, are they "smart"? What if someone is of moderate raw intelligence but they are highly efficient and practical and they get a lot of shit done/done well, meanwhile not being a super genius of natural ability, are they "smart"? If someone is a super genius, like the kid who grew up in a hut in India and taught himself calculus and all that, but they never do anything with it, are they "smart"?
People are good at different things, some people are good at multiple things, some people kind of suck at everything. It just depends.
You have to use the constraint that someone could be "smart" in a given context, which really translates into "are they good at X", which only comes up if it is relevant to what you want them to do. It's not realistic to go around labelling people as "smart" or "not smart".
Totally agree. I'm just curious about your guys' definitions of being "smart" through your own stories. Not trying to debate what's the universal standard.
I'd say it's situational in my opinion. If someone has a good elevator pitch or 5-minute spiel or whatever they can sound brilliant. Plenty of idiot salesmen have spent years accumulating one-liners and intelligent nuggets to repeat to customers that sound great, but once they run out of all of those things they have essentially used up all of their "ammo" and reveal that they just aren't that smart. Sounding smart can be rehearsed and practiced like anything else. I'd say the ability to solve problems is the main thing I would look for, but I'm biased because that's what I like to do is puzzles and that sort of thing.
if they are “present” - listening and appear to be mentally calculating and understand second order effects.
I think a person's vocabulary would be a pretty good indicator of intellect. With that said, an email would tell me a lot more about the person's intellect than would a short conservation. It is not easy to become proficient at writing, especially when your background is in finance or something math-related.
Eloquence might not be an indicator for intelligence, only in the linguistic, liberal arts or cultural sense.
Ever joined an investor call with Elon Musk? Your brain will be confused after a few minutes, yet, he is one of the most intelligent founders in the world. Potentially a somewhat close competitor to Steve Jobs even.
I'm wondering if you're really trying to evaluate if a person seems "smart," or how to be viewed as "smart" yourself.
I think if you are trying to impress someone or seem smart, the best thing to do is, firstly, don't try at all (you'll either seem arrogant, or boorish, both are unattractive whether you're job hunting or dating), and key: Listen. Ask an interesting question requiring more than a 3 word reply. Listen closely to what that person says, try to analyze, and respond with a question that indicates that you listened, comprehended, and evaluated. Kind of got to the next step, and asked the lead in question. People will think you are smart if you're quite attentive, quietly listen, and ask an astute, relevant question that furthers the discussion.
As for generally "sounding smart" on some topic you're discussing, I guess that's any one's opinion. But coming across as amiable, approachable, open vs. arrogant, obnoxious, know-it-all is pretty key. You have a better chance of getting attention and getting "the floor" to speak if you have some humility. Show some humility, young man! You don't know everything. You could be wrong. Be likable. Admit to being unsure, ask for others' input - don't give a lecture. People love that. Some quality vocabulary is a nice add. And please - all of you readers - I interview many students and junior professionals. Practice speaking without saying "like" or "umm" or "yknow". These are reflexive, they are space-fillers. Nothing sounds as inane and immature. After a few sentences, all anyone hears is "like" as they prepare to hear you say "like" again. It's better to speak slowly, or have a pause, than use those fillers. It's at crisis level for younger professionals. Practice until you rid your speech of these words permanently. You'll sound much smarter.
Any tips on how to eliminate fillers from speech?
Yes. Practice. Just speak more slowly and deliberately in everyday conversation. Be cognizant that you are eliminating those words.
Let's say you're getting prepared for an interview and you have your "set" answers to expected questions . Practice saying them aloud when you're alone, so they become more smooth and you don't need fillers. All fillers are are the chance for your brain to pause until the rest of the words come to you - or as a nervous habit (which we all do - no worries!). General practice in regular conversations and on your own to delete those words will do it.
My objection is not trying to sound smart myself or to evaluate a person based on this discussion. My personal background has molded my own definition of intelligence deep in my mind, and it's really hard to be changed. The reason I got curious to hear from others is that I saw someone posted on WSO a few days ago mentioning that he met a female HBS graduate whom he found to be very smart after a short chat, to an extent that he even created a post out of it.
I admit tho, that after reading each comment, I did reflect on myself to see if there's something I could improve on.
She charmed him. We are excellent at that.
I think if we are being honest, one of the key things that makes us think someone is smart is shared opinions.
Notorious idiot markers: overly verbose, overly emotional, morally righteous, unable to listen/constant misrepresentation of one's words.
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