what to do if just AVERAGE?
I'll be the first to admit that I'm only an average IBD candidate. 3.62 from a top 25 school without much extracurriculars. An alum told me that he's reviews a lot of resumes from people with 3.8s and 3.9s. I do have an internship with a somewhat decent firm but again who doesn't. Any advice on how "average" people can find jobs?
A good start would be to stop being average. Or thinking you are. Just start there. People can smell a lack of confidence and insecurity a mile away.
=== 23yr old Associate
Exactly, you should have at least one or two strength that are somewhat unique and you should play on them. They don't have to be huge, as long as they set you apart from the pack. Also, from my experience, some people with 3.9+ have lesser social skills than people with lower GPA and that makes a big difference.
Are you personally venting? I do not understand where all that came from. Maybe you could elaborate...your mini-rant isn't clear.
Its an off-topic rant, just as said I don't think Jason looks 'insecure' when he says stuff like "I'll be the first to admit that.." 'Insecure' people are more likely the GS M&A brigade who feel the need to be the best, the very best and coming 2nd in anything means failure. But anyway, the answer as has been said is obvious - its easy to stop being 'average' / mediocre. Go do some of the things other BB-calibre types do such as the finance societies, and the personal portfolio trading, and get those teamwork / leadership boxes ticked, and network with some alumni bankers, etc etc...
=== 23yr old Associate
He's obviously saying that Jason isn't insecure. Insecure people make up stupid excuses for their shortcomings - i.e. "I only came to this state school b/c I couldn't afford to go to an Ivy" - by admitting to being average, he is obviously comfortable with his mediocrity.
I disagree for two reasons:
first, GS doesn't have an M&A group
second, if GS did have an M&A group, and it was the top group on the street, GS M&A analysts would be the absolute last people in the world to be insecure. GS is a powerhouse that emanates false humility - the kids there are the cockiest on the street, because there's nothing to be insecure about. Being cocky/smart/ambitious/etc. does not equate insecurity.
Insecure would be more the guy at Barclay's or BofA or some MM boutique who talks about how he chose that bank instead of a BB because of culture/fit/closeness w/ seniors/etc. - LSO's "The Boutique" gives a pretty good example.
The majority of people at the top of their field - the ones with a perfect resume who get into GS IBD etc, have serious insecurity issues. It is insecurities that have driven them - the common one being bullied at school and thus feeling the need to prove oneself - throughout their school days, what drove them to get into an Ivy League, often what drives them to get into the very best bank and not settle for anything less than the very best. I know very, very few grads doing something at the top of their field who are 'normal', not have serious insecurities that drive them to be unhealthily ultra-competitive etc. High levels of arrogance, cockyness and often ambition very commonly stem from insecurity.
Similarly, whilst there are indeed plenty of people who say stupid stuff like "I could've got into Front Office but chose Ops instead", the majority of 2nd-tier people (or MO/BO) I know are content with their mediocrity, they're not insecure / feel inferior as they don't really care about striving to 1st-tier superdom, they don't care if others are 'better' than them. As said not everyone but this is more commonly the case. The most 'normal' grads I know are those that never went overboard / over-the-top striving for something, but are chilled, 'go with the flow' and don't over/under-achieve.
Sorry to drag this thread off-topic, but the OP's answer has already been given. For the record I perhaps fall between the two categories above - quite ambitious, but content to be 'good' and not 'the best' / 'outstanding'.. knowing the personal lives of some people who others would deem to be the latter, and knowing the reality often involves manic depression, cocaine abuse etc, I don't envy them!
=== 23yr old Associate
While you make some good points, there are differences between insecurity and things like competitiveness. Without a doubt there are some insecure people who feel the need to justify their insecurities, but being ultra competitive and trying to be the best at what you do doesn't mean you're insecure. It could mean that you're a gamer. There are plenty of people out there who are very confident and ultra competitive. Those people are usually the ones who succeed at what they're trying to do. I can't see a group like, say, professional athletes, who are full of confidence and competitiveness being insecure.
I personally don't see anything wrong with being competitive. In a lot of situations, I feel that competition leads to people producing better work. I would rather deal with a competitive person than one who is content doing just enough to get by.
but remember one thing, there are no absolutes in life. generalizations are dangerous
A 3.6 from a top25 state school can definitely find a job.
But I think you meant to ask, how can a 3.6-top-25 get a FT BB IBD offer, one of the most prestigious and desired entry level positions in the western business world. You ARE above average. But you're an 7/10 guy looking for a 10/10 job. Just wanted to define that.
I would say that he's a 9.9/10 guy... only 28% of Americans have a college degree, and less than 1% of Americans have a college degree from a top-25 school.
People in banking often overestimate the level of the general population, because they grew up sheltered in an elitist world.
You can definitely get a job with your stats, the problem is that, coming from a non-target, you needed set the foundation years in advance... a bit late now.
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