What to do to get into IB?
Hi All,
I’m here because I think this is the only place where I can tell everything that has been frustrating me during a whole year. I think this is the only place where I can get real answers and advice about my situation.
I’m a recent graduate with a master degree in banking and finance from a “normal” university in France. I also have a master degree in money banking and finance in the most prestigious university in Morocco.
The only experience I have is an internship of 5 mouths as a KYC analyst in CIB environment in one of the 3 major banks in France.
My studies tough me two things about me, I’m competitive I like competition and I love to learn and discover. So I tough and I always do (I hope so) that I have some of the qualities required to get into IB.
The problem now (I think you know the story) is that with no top BS degree and major relevant experience the odds are against me. Since the begging of the year I’ve turned down 6 KYC analyst job offers, 3 with major global banks. I’m afraid that if I get into KYC again I will never get the chance to get into IB as an analyst. It’s very frustrating when you don’t get the chance to use and work with the skills that you’ve worked hard to get, even more if you do something where you can’t express your type of personality.
I’m starting to lose faith in my chance to get into IB, so I decided to post this message just to be sure.
My question is: someone with this type of profile can get a position in IB with a BB or a boutique?
Thanks!
Maybe consider targetting regional boutiques as an analyst. It'll still be tough.good luck
Do you need sponsorship? If not, I would encourage you to network...extensively.
I’ve tough about regional boutiques. I don’t know if it will be any easier. Last year I’ve tried to get my internship within some regional boutiques but nothing comes out. I’m thinking concentrating on boutique in the UK. But indeed I will need sponsorship.
Can I always try to get an internship?
Pretty tough to find anything in London if you need sponsorship. A lot of bright kids from target Unis end up with nothing. Don't know how easy it is to find someone willing to sponsor you in France. Perhaps some others can chime in.
EDIT: This is not to discourage you; I do know of international students who were able to find jobs. It did however, take a lot of effort and many settled for areas outside of IBD.
Thank you Blak Star, regarding sponsorship in France, currently I’m still considered a student so I need sponsorship but I have to right to get a different “title” were there is no need of sponsorship.
Can you tell me if an internship in the UK will be easier to get? What about off-cycle internships, is there any chance? Is it hard to get as summer intern?
What about other countries? I’m willing to explore all options.
Finally can you tell me what other areas outside IBD can be interesting?
NB: I can consider a position in equity research but I have a bad experience with it, when I was searching for my internship I’ve called a lot (really a lot) of ER analyst in Paris but no place available.
I can't speak for areas outside of IBD however, as someone mentioned read up on AMAs - s&t, PWM, AM, big 4 corporate finance, consulting etc should be given some thought. You can always do an MBA in a couple of years to give yourself a fresh start.
UK/London: I am afraid you have missed the boat for summer internships. You could perhaps seek an off-cycle internship with some of the French banks: SocGen, BNP Paribas, Natixis. It is highly unlikely that a small boutique would ever consider sponsoring someone. You can try off-cycle BBs...will require extensive networking as they hire on a rolling basis.
It's a real pity that you graduated in Nov/Dec as you now have a 5 month gap on your CV. Unfortunately, main recruiting has come to a close. The worse situation is to be out of work and out of education.
Sorry to break it to you but that kyc experience probably hurts you more than having it unless you got any connections
Pubfinanalyst, i think the same think, that way I’m trying to get my distance from it. But can I still get something that can lead me into IBD with a resume with 0 experience?
I’m ready to start from anywhere, I don’t know, corporate maybe. I’m trying to get into auditing in big4s but until now there is nothing.
It is really hard to live with this, when you have to ignore your qualities to fit into something you don’t even want.
The problem is, in France IBD recruits mainly (if not solely...) from tier 1 and 2 schools (HEC, ESSEC, ESCP & EDHEC, EM Lyon), as prestige is one of the most important factors. Moreover, These schools have mandatory internships to complete the degree (at least 12m in general), so their students interested in banking generally have significant relevant experience.
You say you come from a "normal" university in France, so i'm guessing 1/ it's not a grande école and 2/ it's not Dauphine, so FT recruiting for IBD is going to be fairly tough, without prior experience. Or (as many have pointed our before) unless you are able to build a solid network and get in that way.
My advice would be to try to reach out to smaller advisory firms, there are plenty in Paris or other french cities (Lyon, etc). They might be more "touched" by your story on how you are passionate about IB (you need a good story...), and less focused on your academics, which could lead you to landing an internship.
Have you also considered other career paths? I know that this forum is VERY high finance biased, but many other career paths are challenging with a steep learning curve. If this is what you're looking for, then start searching for AMA's on WSO on different jobs/careers to get a taste of what you'd enjoy doing. Consulting, PWM, Auditing, Big 4 Transaction Services, Asset Management, Finance & Strategy roles within large companies, etc. In your case, you should focus on smaller firms as they will care less about your lack of academic prestige.
I really hope it works out for you!
Thank you Exel, I’m willing to consider other career path, but its looks like that even auditing for example is out of reach. Anyway it’s still better than having nothing to stick to.
What worries me most is that I’ve tried to reach to small financial advisory firms when I was looking for my internship but no success (lack of experience). Even retail corporate banking is out of my reach. I’m starting to think that maybe I should focus on countries like Belgium, Luxembourg, UK, and Switzerland…
It’s really hard, unbearable, especially when you get KYC offers all the time & your family and relations tells you to take it!
From what I understand, you're not an EU national? If that's the case, Switzerland will be very (let me emphasize on the very) tough, and believe me, I know what I'm talking about (I live there). I can't speak for Luxembourg or Belgium though, but anyways it can't hurt to apply to a couple of job offers and see what happens.
Now the other problem is, you have already graduated and if you can't find anything you want in the next month or so, you're going to have nothing on your resume since graduation. While I can't say with certainty that taking one of the KYC offers is the best course of action, a job is surely better than no job... When have you graduated? September? Because if you already have 6 months of unemployment, that doesn't help your case.
If you can still take one of the KYC offers from one of the top French banks, then you'll still have a good name on your resume and with lots of effort and networking, you might be able to move closer to an IB or FO role. You can try contacting employees in the banks where you had offers to get a taste of internal mobility.
Hope that helps!
Thank you again exel for your reply.
I got my degree in November 2014 and I finished my internship in the end of December. Just like you said it’s maybe better for me to get into KYC as a first step, but I’m afraid that I can’t get from it especially in France where first experience determine your career path.
I disagree I would say it's better to find any other middle office job at a bank then work up then a back office kyc position. It just carries this stigma with people and banking and j just see it hard to break and jump from kyc to banking
I agree with Pub. When I claimed that the, "worse situation is to be out of work and out of education" it does not mean that you should take anything that comes along. Getting into a top MBA/moving to FO without one could be even more challenging with "poor" work experience.
It's a balance between staying unemployed and finding "the" job. Perhaps try and start you own business (may be even travelling) / look for finance gigs in morocoo until next year's recruiting comes along (August - November).This way you can have a "story" for how your goals changed etc and why you now want to do banking/big 4/equity research etc.
Note: You can appy for FT jobs as a recent graduate - of course this will be extremely tough without relevant experience and sponsorship and thus, networking is even more necessary!
Delectus itaque harum reprehenderit architecto facere. Explicabo iure quas veritatis enim reprehenderit et quia quae.
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