What's wrong with this calculation?

For first round undergrad intern at Bain there were about 35-40 (lets say 40) candidates. And they pick only 4. Now I heard for FT the class is 4-5 times as big, so thats about 16-20. And most of the FT interviewees are going to be the same ones that interviewed for intern positions.

Let's assume all the interns get FT offers and accept them.

Does this mean 12 out of the 36 that didn't make the intern cut are going to get offers? This doesn't seem right, as 1 out of 3 seems too easy. What am I missing?

Comments (18)

Feb 6, 2010

There's other schools they do first rounds at, and where they send other people. They also usually have more than one day where they do interviews (perhaps they had 4-5 sets of first rounds).

Feb 6, 2010

But are those 4-5 first rounds for the same office? At my office (lets call it A), not everyone was applying for A, so it is going to be that way all over the country, so there will be applicants at B,C, and D applying to A as well. Thus, the number of people making the first round for A will be more or less the same (around 30-40)

Do they conduct interviews outside of their office as well? Your post seems to imply that there are about 120 first rounders for the 15 or so spots available for FT.

Feb 6, 2010

Why are you assuming that the 36 others who got interviews for internships will be the exact same 36 people who will get interviews for full time. Every year there are new applicants, and whatever they did over the summer interning may make them Bain quality the next year. Getting an interview for Bain is no easy feat, and I would assume that the percentage of applicants who even get a first round of interview is 1/1000.

"It's all nonsense. Firms use titles to pander to the egos of the employees without giving away the store. If you are getting the money, who cares about the title?"

Feb 6, 2010

It can't be that hard. Can someone else confirm this? 1/1000 seems wayy too hard for some of the people I saw there... I would have guessed 1st round is more like 1/15 (40*15=600 applicants)

Are you saying 1/1000 for only FT or for intern position as well?

You don't really have to assume that the same 36 will make it. My point is, if I do make the first round next year, do I really have around 1/3 chance of getting in (assuming you know nothing about the applicants)

Feb 6, 2010

In aggregate of SA and FT recruiting, MBB take between 0.5 and 2% of those who apply. The usual numbers for SA are 250-350/24/8/1-4 and for FT are more like 500-600/36-64/10-20/5-10. The majority of the people who apply for SA apply for FT as well, but there's no guarantee. Also, keep in mind that McK tends not to interview people more than once, so if you interview SA you don't get FT interviews.

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Feb 7, 2010

"Also, keep in mind that McK tends not to interview people more than once, so if you interview SA you don't get FT interviews."

This is patently false.

Feb 7, 2010
ringtailedlemur:

This is patently false.

You shouldn't use words you don't entirely understand to try to make a point.

As for what I said, that was the case at my school (top target), and according to the partner I interviewed with it is standard practice.

Feb 8, 2010
sparticus:
ringtailedlemur:

This is patently false.

You shouldn't use words you don't entirely understand to try to make a point.

As for what I said, that was the case at my school (top target), and according to the partner I interviewed with it is standard practice.

At my top target, McKinsey gave very few summer BA interviews. They only did one round... maybe 30-40 people interviewed. I know multiple examples of:
1. People who interviewed, didn't get a summer BA offer, but were fast tracked for full time interviews.
2. People who interviewed, didn't get a summer BA offer, were not fast tracked, but ended up getting a full time offer.

You're claiming that both scenarios above would be incredibly rare... but it sure doesn't seem so according to the evidence I have. I'm sure it's possible that if someone absolutely tanks their summer BA interview, McKinsey won't bother to interview them again. But the notion that they will avoid re-interviewing strong candidates just because they didn't get one of the insanely competitive summer BA spots is just absurd.

And you're patently a dick.

Feb 7, 2010

Of those who are interviewed in the second round for an ACI position at Bain, top performers who were just short of getting the offer often get an automatic fast track to a first round for full time. This is definitely true of Bain.

I don't think it's necessarily clear cut to assume that those who were fast tracked to a full time interview were more successful than others who had not interviewed previously at the firm in getting the offer. Meaning, a lot of people try finance for a summer and decide to interview at MBB for full time, and I know first hand of many who have done this. Knowing this, the 1/3 rate of getting a FT offer seems inflated and very unlikely.

By the way, percentage wise, the number of offers handed out for interns is much lower than the offers handed out at FT. It's the opposite of the trend in finance, where it's easier to get an SA position but arguably harder to get into a FT position without prior finance experience.

Feb 8, 2010

i've often heard that at top tier consulting firms, it's harder to get a summer intern position than a full time position. my personal experiences certainly agree with that. i don't know why that is though. consulting firms and investment banks seem to run their summer analyst programs under very different philosophies. i would guess that the yield of summer interns that end up becoming full time is much higher for consulting firms than investment banks.

Feb 8, 2010
kalice123:

i've often heard that at top tier consulting firms, it's harder to get a summer intern position than a full time position. my personal experiences certainly agree with that. i don't know why that is though. consulting firms and investment banks seem to run their summer analyst programs under very different philosophies. i would guess that the yield of summer interns that end up becoming full time is much higher for consulting firms than investment banks.

This is absolutely true. Intern classes at consultancies are tiny, and are therefore extremely competitive. However, the conversion rate is very high.

Feb 8, 2010

Will they let you know if you have been fast-tracked for the next year? (so you don't have to apply again)
Or is it like they have a list, and you still have to apply, but they look to see if you are on the list?

Also, do they keep the list of those who interviewed for an intern spot (including those who didn't do well)?

Feb 9, 2010

@qwertyq - They let you know if you're fast tracked. I would assume they keep interview notes (it wouldn't make sense not to), but I have no inside knowledge of that.

Feb 10, 2010

ok I was just wondering bcuz I got the second round but my friend got fast tracked for next year... I guess that means if I don't get the offer I'll get fast tracked too

but coming out of it I thought I didn't do well (didn't get the entire answer for first case)... weird how you can't tell how interviews will go

Feb 9, 2010

Yes they do keep a list of those who they interviewed. Since every interviewer has to fill out an evaluation of some sort, they will have notes on how you did for prior interviews.

Though say you don't get the summer offer, but come FT you nail the case -- it won't matter so much that you didn't do so hot before, and it won't keep you from getting the offer.

Feb 10, 2010

What you are missing is that you are spending WAY too much time wondering about what's happening to other people. Stay focused on what you need to do.

Feb 10, 2010

yeah, you're looking at this like a statistics problem. if you were all equal candidates, the question of probability would have a part, but here it's a question of how good you are (and who you know).

"... then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."

Feb 10, 2010
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