When did you learn derivatives in school
For finance majors at my school they offered one derivative class, and one class on fixed income (geared mostly towards banking) both were 400 level classes geared towards seniors.
I have been amazed that so many juniors on this forum know so much about derivatives/fixed income in the fall of their junior year. My question is when were you introduced this in school? 2nd semester soph year? First semester junior year?
Does my school introduce derivatives too late? I literally know of NO ONE that takes either of the above mentioned classes before senior year, too many prereqs.
Reading books on the side. I took two classes that were remotely financial, with one just barely introducing derivatives by covering basic option theory.
Anything derivatives-related came from reading textbooks, guides (e.g. Economist books), websites and nonfiction (e.g. Traders, Guns & Money / When Genius Failed) and from work experience.
I took this class called MSANDE 142 (Investment Science). MSANDE is the school's industrial engineering and operations research equivalent: management science and engineering.
I'm sure you'll find the same topic covered in both CFA Level One and in the free online class below:
+MIT Sloan, Investments http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Sloan-School-of-Management/15-433InvestmentsS…
my first experience with derivatives was interning on an exchange floor the summer after my soph year.
the moment i learned the most about them was a 400-level industrial & operations engineering class i took here at the university of michigan called derivative instruments. it used the Hull book as the textbook.
the most useful class i've taken in all the 3.5 years i'v been here.
so you took a course in them first semester senior year. Sounds on the same level as my school. I just dont understand how these first semester juniors are applying to these s&t firms and they all sound like clones "equities are the devil its all automation and spreads are small", i dont understand how by end of semester junior year how people were even introduced to derivatives.
I dont know a junior that knows what delta hedging is, except for the ones on this forum.
sorry for not be9ing specific enough, i took it 2nd semester of my junior year. i purposely took it early before i began my internship so i would have an advantage.
the class was composed of an even mix of juniors, seniors, and beyond. but i do agree with you, it isn't "the norm" for a junior to have learned this stuff. i know plenty of kids who interned at various ibanks and a pretty big chunk of them knew nothing about derivatives.
alright so you see where im coming from. I dunno i just personally would not want to intern in something I did not understand. I think structured products are really neat but since i know very little about them i wouldnt want to intern on the structured products desk.
For those of you that interned on an fixed income or quantitative product desk what did you know about the product before your internship experience?
I didn't know until i was screwed for a hedge fund interview in my junior year. From then it's hull.
If you are interested in something but don't know that much about it, why wouldn't you want to intern on that desk?
Your classes in college demonstrate your intelligence and work ethic, you will learn how to be a banker/trader/whatever you want to do between training and working for experienced people, so if you want to learn more there is no substitute for an internship experience.
You don't learn anything in school. At least I didn't. I took derivatives summer of junior year, and then they allowed certain undergrads to take a more advanced class in derivatives their senior year.
Put in the words of one of my future bosses on a derivatives desk: "Why on earth would you waste your time learning derivatives in college? We will teach you all of it the first month on the job. Go take drama for crying out loud!"
So apparently I did waste my time by learning about derivatives ;)
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