When did you stop messing around?
Hi fellow monkeys, I’m sure everybody’s head is spinning amid market turmoil, non-stop pandemic talk, and nauseating cabin fever from wfh. I figure it’s as good as a time as any other to ask something a bit more mundane:
When did you stop messing around ( or start seriously looking for a long term partner)?
I’m in my last couple of semesters of undergrad, and It seems a lot of my friends are engaged or in serious relationships. I’m still playing the field with no desire to settle down, but I can’t help but feel like I’m falling behind the curve sometimes when my peers (early 20’s) are proposing to their girlfriends or living together already. Maybe some more experienced/older monkeys have some advice ? Did you make a conscious effort to look for somebody long term? If so, how old were you?
Maybe when I was 33, I started looking more for LT relationships.
Im mainly interested in chicks in their mid-20s though; a lot of them want to just keep it light. It seems rare to find a hot 20s chick (20-29) that is not crazy and is mature.
I’m 37 now and feel that I’ll still be appealing to this demographic for at least another 4-5 years as I look young and am in shape. I’d prefer to date an athlete - someone who knows how to push themselves.
33 sounds solid. Sounds like your dating pool opened up if anything ? I feel like late 20’s early 30’s would be an ideal age for me, so I was taken by surprise when I started seeing all of these proposals etc on my feeds. Maybe it’s because none of them are in Finance (different lifestyles , priorities etc.) ?
I’m just extremely picky as well. I’ve broken off almost every single relationship. I’ve had lots of relationships where they wanted to go long term or get married and I wasn’t down.
I’m holding out for someone special hopefully. A lot of my friends have already been married and are divorced and I don’t want any of that.
Wait when you're in your 30s even late 30s, you can pick up girls in their 20s? Is this normal? I'm in mid-20s and feel like I end up getting older women in their 40s and 50s rather than women my age because none of them think I would be mature enough due to my age.
You get with 50+ year old chicks?
Yeah just stay healthy and active. I look better at 37 than 32 or even 25. I’m in the best shape of my life and look pretty chiseled, but am also becoming a faster triathlete. The kickboxing helps too to stay shredded. I usually do 1-3+hrs of activity per day. Lately it’s been cycling.
After having my son, I had nothing to show fourth because I had him unexpectedly and I was really young. No career, no money, no nothing. So I changed my life around and full invested into my career so he can be proud of me. Can you imagine if your mom or dad was single and constantly went out or brought someone over to the house to hook up? Not a good look and I didn't want my son to look at me as some scum back. So I spend majority of my time either doing work related stuff or spending time being a dad. Oh and I'm 28. Also after being in an actual relationship with the mother of my son for 6 years, you go through a lot together, unfortunately, it didn't work but after connecting with someone mentally and emotionally, hooking up with a stranger bores you. You want something real.
Totally makes sense. Are you just not actively looking/ hooking up but still throwing passes flirting etc? I cant imagine what it’s like to be a father, but we all have needs you know ?
I have dating apps but I don't really invest my time into it. Because at the end of the day, going out and messing around won't pay my bills. I much rather be studying up programming or creating trading strategies as it's related to my job. I live near Westport and Darien in CT. Let me tell you this, probably two of the biggest towns where most hedge fund and bank traders live. I drive by these houses and I get super jealous and envious that I can't provide that kind of lifestyle to my son and going out and hooking up won't get me there and that's why I have a lot of self control. But if someone great comes along, I do have a bad tendency to throw money around a lot, going out and spending 300 bucks at a restaurant or buying her gifts... this is my downfall.
I'm in a serious relation and still messing around so I think that I'm messed :(
I'm 25, and I've felt ready to look for a wife for about a year now.
If you are going into banking or another high-hour profession, I personally would advocate for getting into a relationship with a hot girl from college now. You may not have as much time to date out of school, and unless you are extremely good looking, dating in college is drastically easier than dating as a 23 year old man in a major city.
Not that you need to marry her- she won't start asking till ~25 anyway (unless you're southern lol). But in my experience guys who locked down hot gfs at the end of college are by and large doing better than guys who didnt.
Of course, I was dating a 10 in college, who I broke up with to go work in finance half the country away, and haven't been able to find a gf as good since... so thats my bias.
Shit , somewhat harsh but very realistic outlook. I consider myself good looking, maybe that’s why I’m very complacent at the moment. Do you think it will still be difficult to meet girls in ‘the real world’ given dating apps social media etc has somewhat changed the dating game?
Everyone's experience is different obviously. If you are very social and have tons of cool friends that you hang out with constantly in the city you move to, it might be just as easy as college (as this is basically the environment that college provides).
Dating apps you can expect to only be able to meet girls around 2 points (out of 10) below those who would normally be interested in you.
put handcuffs on the first 10 that will bang you. solid advice man. I’ll try and replicate it.
Hardly what I'm saying haha... cut me some slack I would summarise my advice as: Fuck around in college, but assuming you want to focus on your career in your early 20s, you'll be happier if you show up in NYC with a steady gf from senior year than spending a lot of time trying to bang chicks while working 100 hour weeks
If you play your cards right in college I hope you aren't banging your first 10 senior year :)
So basically you’re a one trick pony. Got it.
I feel like this is even more applicable now that we're all quarantined. Slim pickings these days...
I'm biased because this is my personal experience, but it's true
most of my friends who are my age (mid 30s) are either married or about to be married
the younger guys but not right outta college (27-32) are playing the field and getting some nice body counts but LT options are drying up unless they go way younger. I also find that most of them are using the "playing the field" approach in the sense of "I'm not hurting anyone, what's the issue?" which is true, but it leaves out the second unstated part "I don't really like to think long term because that's uncomfortable and it's easier to keep banging 23yo tinder chicks instead of making a long term plan and trying to better myself"
nothing wrong if you don't want a long term relationship, I just anecdotally see a lot of man children complaining there aren't any good girls left when you just spent the past 10 years narrowly dodging (or in some cases not) chlamydia instead of taking a good hard look in the mirror and asking "if I keep on this path, what will my life look like in 5 or 10y?" and if you don't like the answer, doing something about it TODAY to change your direction
and OP, you're not behind yet. I didn't live with my gf until I was 4y out of college, didn't get engaged until 6y out of college. you've got time my guy
/rant
Definitely agree with this. Seems like this generation really likes to complain about dating, but in general don't actually put the time in to make their dating experience worth while.
Dude if you are in a major city and having problems dating that's a you problem you got to work on. Between bars and dating apps, dating in your 20s to mid 30s should be very very very easy - this is your prime.
I will say that it's a bit tough just starting out (23-24). Girls your age can be courted by guys you simply cant compete with. And many girls in college look down on dating a guy out of it (i.e. some girls think it's weird to be a Junior in college dating someone 2 years out). Build yourself in your early 20s. If you hit 25-30 in really good shape, have a career where you can have your own decent place, and an interesting hobby or two then you will crush.
I don’t know if this is the best advise. Happened to my friend recently who had a ‘10’ who he married from college but recently found out she was cheating on him with another more ‘successful’ man than him. That’s the risk of marrying a girl from college as you may have two completely different lives once you actually enter the real world. I personally think it’s better to marry once you’ve reached your level of success and now want to settle and bring a child in to the world. Rushing into marriage at 20 because you want to “lock down your 10 from college” I’d say is the worst possible advise, honestly.
26 here
Last 4 years I was focused on an LTR that went south (thankfully, I realized I was miserable with her). I've always wanted to have a large family and protect and provide for people. Unfortunately, I also put that above my own priorities (career, ambitions, personal goals). My world ended up getting smaller and lonelier because of it.
Now I feel like I am going to stay away from dating until mid-summer. Don't see why I should settle down yet. I have so much energy, and the girls I have seen in the last 5-6 months who are +- 1-2 years my age just...don't...
Weird feeling, I feel like I'm in my early 20's again.
I will say that I wish I had a highschool sweetheart who I married in my early 20s. That time has passed by..
Same age here, and just went through the same experience. I’m having the same issue with finding someone that actually clicks. Also I feel 22 again, which isn’t a bad thing. It’s definitely taking some getting used to, as I feel like your whole identity is built around your s/o when you’re together for that long.
100% agreed. Although I am a very extroverted person so single life does have a ping of wanting companionship all the time, since I live alone right now. Grass is always greener symptom.
Just curious, are you a very attached person? I would think feeling like you’re in your early twenties and being back in the game would feel exciting
I am attached to things I have put time and effort into. My perception of time feels like a whirlwind and I feel like an old soul. While it is exciting, I am not hungry for it, even from a physical standpoint.
Maybe 13-14 months ago I was trying to plan out how to have 5+ kids & 5+ dogs one day. Now I am planning out what businesses I want to start, places I want to explore, and people I want to meet. It's a disconnect.
I dated a girl for all 4 years of high school. She said she gave me the best years of her life. Saw a recent pic of her I guess she was right.
Did she give you head too?
who gets engaged during undergrad? is this the 70's?
My thoughts exactly man, but the more I think about it, it’s may come down to professions/ lifestyles. The peers I’m referring to are not in finance ( one is in the police academy, another has some cushy IT job lined up etc)
At large southern schools you’d be surprised lol. I know plenty of people that have done that.
27 at the moment.
Real talk, finding a meaningful relationship is the least of my concerns right now. Young, relatively successful, which also probably make me more handsome.
All of my friends (27-30) are either single or in relationships (i.e. not engaged, married, or divorced). No one even talks about marriage often. My friend pool is pretty diverse in terms of ethnicity, religion, looks, skill, etc. Even girls these days don't seem to care about marriage as much. I know plenty of females pushing 40 and still single. No need for men like before. Women who are clingy/pushy about marriage usually have lower self-esteem (personal observation). I wouldn't mind cohabitation though.
If you find someone that you truely connect with (after exploring the field a bit, of course) and you're at least in your mid-20's, it might make sense to tie the knot. If you want a family, kids, tax benefits, etc. The only one couple I know in my generation that got married in their mid-20's seem jealous of the rest of us who are living life with no strings attached. So be forewarned.
As for me personally, I'm not looking for any of those things. At least for now. I don't think I would make a good parent (all things being equal). World is uncertain right now and kids are expensive. Luckily for us guys, we don't have biological clocks ticking. And our social value has the potential of actually increasing.
I see myself in the same camp. I guess this is just a more common theme among career focused people ?
Work hard, play harder.
Ok but what about your urge to nut? If you're not looking to get with girls, how do you handle that?
Currently 30 - plan is to by the time I am 35 but time will tell. Don't really see the need to and still love being single plus settle down means marriage and then kids shortly after depending on the girls age due to their biological clock. Most of my friends who got married younger (early 20's) are at home with kid(s) and frequently send along a "have one for me tonight" text/snap. Couldn't imagine being home quarantined for two months right now with a wife and kids. Should have been a divorce lawyer.
In my opinion, being quarantined with a wife>alone>with wife and kids>with parents
Your first 1 to 6 relatively serious chicks should be about finding out what you want in a girl and what you do not want, so that you can quickly detect those in whoever you are interested it and fold in case of red flags.
If by your late 20s you aren't able to recognize red flags, then you are doing it wrong. Best time to settle down for a guy is last 20s, early 30s, though your peak value in the dating market is a bit later. Unfortunately waiting for that risks creating too much of an age gap with the girl, because you are likely to date younger girls but there is a generational limit for that.
Good points. By generational limit do you mean the whole divide by two add 7 ? Lol
You can use whatever arbitrary calculation you prefer. It's kind of irrelevant. You have a conversation with a girl and you can tell her level of maturity. If you can't, then time to learn.
I have a 17 years old cousin who just went through her first ''break up'' and we talk often because apparently I'm the one of the few she listens to. She's actually quite mature... for her age. She's still a dumb teenager. You can make up for lack of experience with intelligence only up to a certain degree. Trial and error is still a requirement.
To cut it short, would you want to date someone whose hobbies include ''2 hours a day (at least) on TikTok'' and that calls you granpa if you never heard of some influenced who smashes glass bottles on his head? I don't think so.
25 here no intention of "settling down" for the next .. lmao slipped my mind that im in a relationship. nvm
don’t do it
don't do what?
Can´t stop if you never started lmao
Amen
...
Early / mid 30s, still looking.
Tbh, I just don't feel the need to get kids right now, and 90% of women my age are desperately trying to start families, even more so if they have professional careers.
Getting laid right now is very easy, but it'd be nice to have something more than that.
What do you mean it's very easy? Like it's easier now for you than it was in your 20s? Whaa...
Much easier.
Early 30's = peak age for getting laid, as long as you're not a total slob.
Confidence, without being cocky. Nice place. Enough time and cash to get around, wherever you want to go.
You're appealing to women +/- 10 years your age, so you can basically pick and choose.
met my wife on spring break my senior year of ug. didn’t know she’d be the one for a while and nearly fucked it up a few times. My opinion is that every girlfriend is going to be annoying in some way. once you find a pretty girl with a good personality that you can tolerate and likes your sense of humor I'd say wife her up
This is so true. Nobody is 100% perfect and your wife won’t be either. Just have to make sure there are no serious issues
I’m a proponent of stop messing around earlier like in your mid-20’s and if you have that really special person (Attractive, has passions/ambitions/interests, good personality, high fidelity) already out of college, stick with him/her.
Law of supply and demand dictate that the desirable assets are locked down more and more as time passes.
I’d like to talk about something else though. When I was in my early 20’s I read the book Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. It’s a classic book on how to have the mindset to be successful, written by an author who interviewed high successful people 100 years ago.
Anyways there was one chapter on The Secret of Sex Transmutation. It felt out of place. A book written 100 years ago and mainly talking about success in business and then a chapter on sex, and the power of sex that drives us.
I might not be fully interpreting the chapter correctly but my mind wandered to examples I see how the power of sex drives others and myself.
When I was an analyst busting my butt at work (and I vowed never to be one ever again), I could not imagine also having to think about relationship issues, lining up social encounters, break ups every 6 months (I have a heart / attachment so it’s not easy). I tried that in early college and had my ass chewed out by my boss for lacking dedication (good thing it was a $6 per hour parks and rec job - I was told I was not good at my job).
So my point is I try to channel my “power of sex” energy to having the benefits of that with a special partner, but minimizing the downsides/distractions by having a stable relationship. Obviously being with someone you’ve been through the ups and downs over time with could help put particular bad situations in perspective. That’s helped in when I’ve been laid off, took risks, lost money. I’ve done dumb stuff (not cheat) but still dumb and got forgiven and I’m not infallible.
So the Power of Sex can be a driving force for outlier traits. The power can be harnessed, controlled and used like gas in the car. I think for us normal folks (not talking professional athletes, rock stars, and quadruple threat Hollywood actors) this is a solid base case for life and work. Some of you WSO folks make it work out there in the dating world (domestic and international) and have some fantastic experiences. Please share! But I’m perfectly happy being steady Eddie and channeling my energies into my craft and always having a warm bed to sleep in. Stop messing around was not really a conscience decision, it just happen and with a great person.
Oh and if you complain about the city you live in doesn’t have a lot of good looking girls, this solves that issue too.
For you guys still looking, I think you have to know what your “market” is and work that. Works for men and women. Sometimes you are targeting the wrong market. You should also change your mindset and be open to your market, if you are not already. Of course, people are not markets but individuals and all that could be moot when you meet the right one.
Just don’t wait too long. Supply and demand is against you over time.
While I don't disagree with the concept that women can be a strong motivator/detractor on both one's life and career - "Law of supply and demand dictate that the desirable assets are locked down more and more as time passes" discounts many confounding factors: - An individual who might make a "high value" partner for one person can be a poor fit for another - People grow, change, and meet more people as life goes on (a 10 on your high-school scale probably isn't still a 10 to you when you're in your 30s by virtue of you meeting more people or through the ways they've changed over time) - Also new "assets" are coming onto the market all the time as men can date women quite a bit younger than them
All in all, good points but I don't think anyone should be in a rush especially if you're a dude.
Yeah on the supply & demand argument to some extent that's true but mostly it's not if you're a guy. As a dude, you are well into your 30s attractive to women who are 5-7yrs younger. Especially since straight, college educated men are in short supply (male to female ratio in college these days if 40:60, for those in their mid-late 20s right now it is at least 45:55 if not a bit better). Plus no biological clock for men and earnings power increases so it's better
I get your point though, shouldn't get too comfortable relying on the above but I'd argue the dynamics are quite good regardless for guys
That’s good if you’re a guy in a city with ample supply. But what if you’re that attractive single guy in his 30’s amongst a sea of similar, like in the Bay Area? Maybe you get lucky and take the best that comes along (looks great, personality workable).
Anyways, I’ve observed friends and age 37 is somehow the number the “fatherhood” desire kicks in and the move to settle down. However that “7 years younger” radius means the girl is 30, which my supply and demand theory still applies on average everywhere. Of course there’s exceptions.
Been thinking about this a good deal during quarantine…feel a little stupid bc I’m young but thought it was worth sharing I have an older brother and an older cousin- both are almost 30 and work in high finance. It has been really interesting to compare their two romantic paths. Sorry in advance for the long post.
My brother found a REAL catch when he was 26 and she was 23, and they are now engaged. She is an investment banker, yet family-oriented (willing to quit/switch careers when they have kids or move for his career), has interests outside of work, and is attractive (not model-level, but definitely a few deviations above average). He was a little hesitant to commit at first, but ultimately went for it since you don’t find girls like that everyday (on a dating app, fyi). My cousin, on the other hand, has been sticking it in every 8+ he can find and only started to slow down about a year ago (more on this later).
During undergrad I guess I always related more/idolized my cousin’s life since it seemed so “baller” and fun. But now, I think my brother had it right. My brother has a lot of income/future career uncertainty rn and she has been nothing but supportive and a source of stability. Even before quarantine, he said it was nice having someone who wouldnt chew his ass out for having killer hours, would only “have time” for dates if they were at expensive restaurants despite being a first grade teacher, or frankly were annoyingly stupid. My cousin, on the other hand, has been freaking out bc his high income was his everything and now it’s in jeopardy. They’re both stressed, but my bro is def coming out ahead.
Last year, my cousin started asking my brother’s fiancée about her friends who are similar to her (great jobs, interesting, attractive, not crazy, etc.) and shockingly they are all taken by men who are just as/more “baller” than him…the real alphas. Shit. Women like that do not stay on the market long apparently.
My takeaway is that by my mid-twenties, it wouldnt hurt to keep my eyes open. If I wait longer (late twenties/thirties), I would probably start seriously dating younger women (early/mid twenties lol no teenagers) to try to nab those catches. I feel like some girls in their early twenties just fuck around, but I guess you can usually tell if they are the kind that do/don’t base on their vibe.
You sound beta as FUCK.
A real man (defined as having a penis), would never worry about pussy. If you can take care of yourself, then all well and good. Ironically, you’ll actually be more attractive without even trying. And every time I get in a relationship, it’s like girls know this and are even more attracted to me. It’s like having a girlfriend helps to get more of them. Does anyone else experience this?
And if you think you have it badly, what about women? They have fading beauty and aging eggs.
A real man (defined as having a penis) knows how to read. No one is telling you to panic or settle for someone less than stellar. This was just my two cents since a lot of guys seem to not even entertain the thought (like my brother almost did) before they hit 30 since they see no added utility. In my mind, if I happen to find a great woman earlier as opposed to later that just means I reap those same great benefits of having a stable SO for longer. I have no doubt my cousin, and others who wait, will find someone. But wouldn't it be nice to have them now? He certainly thinks so.
Most normal people, with criteria extending beyond looks and age of eggs, do pay some mind to finding a quality SO since the attributes they look for are far rarer than what the average U of Bama Fashion Marketing major possesses. Higher standards means you have to looks harder. If that makes me a beta so be it- I don't base my self worth or life decisions off of my hypothetic wolf pack rank.
posted in wrong spot (oops)
Tossed you a SB for your name lol
A dude who proposed in his easily twenties? There’s got to be more to the story in those cases.
Maybe the guy is fat or ugly and is worried if he his current gf gets away he’s screwed. Maybe he’s shy and doesn’t get many girls so wants to lock down his current gf.
Or maybe she’s rich / out of his league and figures he can never do better.
Why a good looking, confident and intelligent man (or woman) would want to get married before age 27 will never make any sense to me at all.
What’s wrong with being engaged for awhile if you have a huge hard on for marriage?
Between 27-28, I had gotten a little tired of surface-level relationships. By 30, I found one and after dating for 6ish years, married her.
In terms of looking, I had a basic understanding of my 'need to have' vs. 'nice to have', but I didn't make a conscious effort to talk to/date as many women as possible. I just had conversations, spent time together, etc. and if it made sense, then great. If not, well I met someone new and figured out what I didn't want.
My own two cents on feeling behind the curve... you're not. Everyone has their own process here and I have a former colleague--now friend--that found his significant other at 40yrs+ of age. Behind the curve--IMO--is a series of unhealthy relationships or trying to force a bad relationship by getting married/having kids/etc.
Late 20s to mid 30s. Doesn't really matter, just keep the majority of your 20s open or you might regret it. My two cents. Everyone's different, the single grind gets a little tiresome and empty after a while. Happens to some at 26, some at 28, some at 35, etc.
Yeah, agreed. If you have something good, maybe try and stick with it. If not, just keep moving.
Think the most important thing a guy in 20s can do is just get dating volume. Ideally that includes sex/hookups with at least 20 chicks, and a handful of exclusive relationships. Might sound absurd but you need to:
- know how to get girls easily. You wont have this confidence built in unless you have a good sexual history
- know your own self worth. If you only have dated 2-3 people then you will likely be clingy and insecure in your relationship
- Know what you want. So many people marry the first 2-3 people they date because they dont have options, dont know themselves, and dont even know the girl they are dating. How are they with money? Views on important values you have? Hobbies? Etc. all important
Yes you may tell yourself that you dont have time to date building your career in your 20s , but if you get to 28+ with no experience then you will be absolutely ethered in your relationship. Whether it's control, divorce, heartbreak, etc.
Mid-late 20s here. I'll just say in undergrad, you have SO much time ahead of you. You'll also be a completely different person in 5-10 years, hell even a few years from now. Your desires and tastes will change. Don't feel like you need to be in a rush by looking at your peers bc you really have so much time dude. Focus on your health, your personal goals, creating genuine friendships, etc. first and things will work out well for you
I've never messed around and don't think I'd want to.
1. You usually have to use condoms and you usually can't finish inside. So either it's much worse physically or you risk babies and STDs.
2. Little to no emotions in it. To me sex is a very intimate thing.
3. One or both parties are typically drunk so the focus and attention is not as good.
I really don't get why guys are thirsting so hard for hookups. It's physically and emotionally worse, and it happens less often than if you were to have a hot girlfriend. Is it just boredom?
Sounds like a lot of cope to me.
"Never had sex with beautiful women because I didnt want to!" lmao
The comparison was between committed sex vs casual sex. Not sure what made you think my post was about not having sex at all.
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