Where do I go from here - Serious guidance
Hey everyone,
I'm really glad that I found this site. I'm extremely lost in life and need some serious guidance.
I graduated from a very non-target, a Tech school in the south, with a BS in Finance... and a 2.1. I want to work in IB/PE/HF/VC... but I don't even know if that's possible. My answer to my low GPA is that I'm simply not a good test taker. I would study for days for tests and end up blanking out when the test hit my desk. My professors would pull me aside and ask what was going on because I was the guy in class leading all the discussions, with the best papers, came to class everyday, sat in the front, asked plenty of questions... but still failed the test. I couldn't drop classes for fear of losing my financial aid (more on that later) so I would just fail a class or make a bad grade. (My school's on the quarter system too, so everything moves really fast and you'd have 3 test per class, usually all on the same day and if you do bad on one you're pretty much fucked.)
My last finance class was a bank management course, which was really difficult and was counted as a 500 level MBA course as well. I didn't do well on the first test, which made my nearing prospects of graduation dim. I had a panic attack, feel into a black-hole of depression and was pretty much forced into counseling and anti-depressants by friends and family. During the counseling I focused on my seemingly inability to pass a test. I discovered I wanted to succeed and feared failure so much that I put all this pressure on myself, causing me to freeze up. The counselor taught me all of these studying and relaxing techniques. When the second test came around for that class... I ace'd it. Knocked it out of the ballpark and broke the curve in the class.
I choose the finance major too because I wanted a job in finance and wanted to challenge myself. I actually excel at the liberal arts. Always made As in history and English. I'm not a math person at all. And finance entails a lot of math. Part of going through with this major was to over-come my weakness with math. I'd say I feel I did, but I don't feel really mathematically strong. I couldn't tell you how many people in business school don't want to do math so they go for easier degrees like marketing, I didn't want to be one of those people. I also studied a lot of things on my own. I tend to learn better by myself then in class.
I also decided to go into finance because I come from poverty. I am the first person in my entire extended family, on both sides of the trees, to get a degree. Everyone in my family is poor or lower middle-class. Living paycheck to paycheck, job-to-job. Just getting by. I wanted something different for myself. I wanted to understand wealth and have a career that gave me enough wealth to not be in the same position. Growing up all I heard was "we don't have enough money for that" every time I wanted anything.
In high school I wanted a job, but didn't have a car, which made it difficult. I applied to so many and didn't get anything. My parents also decided to cheat on each other at this time so they went out partying every night leaving me to take care of my baby brother and sister. I also have a birth defect and a speech impediment, costing me a lot of time out of schools for surgeries and when I was in school I was always made fun of a lot. This all had a bad effect on my schooling... I didn't think I was going to college, but I realized it was a way out and got into the school I graduated from. But my low grades didn't score me any scholarships. So I had to pay for it through financial aid and loans.
During college I was expected to pay for everything myself. My parents gave me nothing. My mother was diagnosed with cancer and lost her job because of her poor health, so I ended up helping pay her bills as well as my own. So there was always this stress/financial pressure of having to provide for myself which distracted me from doing better in school. (Should of been a motivator to do better, but I didn't drop out... I kept going until I had the degree).
The point is... I didn't get any finance internships in college.
Shit happens ---> Distractions from school ----> lower gpa -----> not meeting gpa requirements for internships.
I was too focused on taking care of myself in the moment, that I lost site of the career/path. I got a good job/internship on our campus' business incubator, which I absolutely loved. And I got that because I participated in the business plan competitions at our school and worked on this venture enhancement team that took university intellectual property and created working prototypes. Which is my proudest accomplishment in school.
So here is where I am at. I'm graduated, I have a degree in finance with no relevant internships, from a non-target from with a low GPA. Am I completely fucked? I'm wondering whether I should even still try to get the job I want. I didn't try harder for these jobs in college because I was under the impression that you had to go to an Ivy League school to even have a shot. But I discovered this site and saw a lot of success from people who didn't meet all those requirements and I'm starting to gain a lot of hope.
Right now I am working at a shitty call center because during college and after college I couldn't find a job. My brother is in a management position at the center so he got me this job. So now I spend 40 hours a week taking tech support calls and getting ridiculed by customers because of my speech impediment all for $10 an hour. A job where a lot of the staff don't even a high school education. I had to move away from the little town where I was living life alright, back to the city I tried so hard to get away from to take a job that annihilates any ambition I used to have in life.
I need to make things better for myself. I'm about to be drowning in student loan debt while I can't even afford to live with what little I'm making. All I have is this degree and determination. I want a finance job so badly, I just don't know if I even have a shot at it. Where I should begin... with just networking?
Don't take this post as a pity-party. I want some of the posters on here to look at my story and realize how incredibly fortunate they are. How fortunate you are to go to a good school, to get those SA offerings, to get those internships, to get the opportunity to move to a great city because someone wants you to come work for them. That must feel incredible! Right now I am going to find a way to make it happen for me. If it means I get to move to New York or some other major city and work in finance I would GLADLY put in those 100 hours a week and deal with anything.
Which is another thing, I don't know if I really, truly, want a job in finance or I just want it to take me away from everything I have at the moment. I'm thinking of going back to grad school for English... Because I like to read and write, I always did better in English classes and I discovered recently that I probably could of been an English major with a 3.5 + and had a better chance at getting a finance job then actually having a finance degree! Plus, I think I want to go into ER and I figured having an English degree would help with that.
So, what do you guys think? Am I fucked or not? Only as fucked as I want to be?
I'm going to keep this thread update with any progress I make. I'm not about to take no for an answer.
Dude come on
Ditto that @JeffSkilling. Come on man...I'm not a good test taker?
Sorry man ib isn't goIng to happen for you. If you couldn't handle the stress of a college exam how can you handle the stress of high finance??? Why don't you Look into the military, might get your student loans paid for. Good luck man.
You have the hugest obstacles in the world to overcome. Awful work experience so far, abysmal GPA, non-target ... etc. etc.
Going to get a grad degree in English won't help you, because recruiting at the undergrad level is far different.
I don't know what positive advice to offer you. If you could manage to spin your story positively you might manage to put it to your favor in interviews, but even getting one would be quite the challenge.
Give up.. theres a difference between courage/determination and stupidity Seriously.,,,this is for you If you go to grad your just gona end up with more debt with another worthless degree
and plus...ur not that special. My parents are divorced and I have financial issues as well. get over it seriously. I hate it when ppl make excuses.
If you didn't want pity why tell all the shit you went through.
This is not hate. just hate it when somebody blames their environment. I know environment is important but...well, too bad
Good point.
I just didn't feel supported throughout school and I think that distracted me too much. It's not an excuse. It's a failure of willpower on my part. But it's things like that held me back. I didn't have a home to go back to during the summer, so I just went to school because it was the only way to stay in the dorms... the only place I had to stay. So I made descisions based on immediate living circumstances instead of life-long career choices, like getting an internship.
I was trying to explain as much as I could so all the exteremely knowledgable people on this site could give me the best advise they could. It's not about pity, it's about understanding.
I don't think I really understand my poor performance in school. Not trying hard enough? Trying to hard? I couldn't and yet still cant explain it. I could study the same material, the same amount of time as someone else and that person would make an A and I wouldn't. I don't know why.
I DO know a lot of people cheated, had old tests, frat/sororites copying each others tests.
It's understandable. This all my fault. I didn't research and prepare myself enough for a career. I think I did a damn good job of preparing myself to LIVE. I can confidently live by myself, handle bills, cook, clean, etc... but I didn't prepare for a career.
Exactly, you will not become a banker. Just hard truth here.
You can become relatively wealthy in other fields. You will have to climb the ladder.
This is not an indication of intelligence whatsoever, and does not entitle you to good exam grades. It just shows you did 10 minutes of reading before the class.
all in all, we may sound harsh but we're not trying to be demeaning or anything like that. there's a difference between dream and reality. on the other hand....the self pity and misinformed delusion makes me wonder if this could be a troll post?
Look, there are a lot of jobs in between what you are doing now and the IB/PE/HF/VC that you crave. If I were you, I'd apply to anything and everything relevant to finance to get you out of that call center. You need to start somewhere, and the most hard to obtain jobs are not for you. Don't give up on life just because you can't get into IB/PE/HF/VC immediately after graduation. I am confident there are opportunities out there for you that won't require you to be "living paycheck to paycheck, job-to-job".
If you somehow keep knocking your jobs out of the park, you may be able to keep lateraling until you are somewhere where you really want to be.
Im about to give you the harshest advice ever
Redo it. All. Pref at a diff/better school somehow (slightly better,not an ivy)
No one will ask about your age and all that matters is ppl want to know you graduated from your Current institution in 4 yrs
Military options also
Thanks for all the replies guys!
I'm giving this some heavy thought. Is that even possible? I would go back and redo college in a heart-beat if I could. Or reenroll, work towards a second degree and get my GPA up while looking for internships. It's just a matter of what school and how I would afford it -- I'm sentenced to student loan hell already. :-/
If I got a second degree and still went for a high finance job I would have to spin the second degree's presence in an interview "I went for a degree in english to prepare better me for ER" or "I went for a degree in journalism because I wanted to write finance related articles professionally." Or just be honest and say those fields interested me as well. I'm certain I'm about to be told this is dumb idea though.
I'd try to go to a better school for the networking/recruiting opportunities.
Military is not really an option because I tried that before UG to pay my way through it and got rejected. I'm not in any better shape now.
Try to get any sort of "numbers-related" job for a larger company. Even if you start off working in A/R collections (or some other crappy job), you could potentially lateral to more of an analytical role (ie sales analyst, or the like) at the same company, if you play your cards right. note: There will probably be a few steps involved to eventually get to that role. However, keep leveraging your former role into a role that is closer to you desirable job. I have a friend from HS who did this and now works at GE Capital.
If you follow a path similar to above and get good work experience + high gmat + good EC's, you could then try for a decent regional b-school.
It will be an uphill battle, so don't expect immediate results.
Good luck.
Honestly man, why do you want to go into finance to begin with? There are plenty of other career paths that will give you a comfortable lifestyle that might be more in line with your interests and strengths. Why are you deliberately choosing the hardest path for yourself? If you have weak math skills why do you want a job that involves a lot of math? There is challenging yourself and then there is deliberately setting yourself up for failure.
Your excuse of being a poor test taker is not going to do you any favors. If you do as badly on tests as your GPA shows and blame it on poor test taking skills you are labeling yourself as someone who constantly folds under pressure. There is a lot of pressure in most finance jobs, 100 times more pressure than taking an exam in school.
Here is the hard truth, unless you have some major connections IB/PE/HF/VC is simply not going to happen for you. Having a desire to work in finance means very little to anyone hiring unless you have results to back that up. Talk is cheap and a bad GPA, no internships, and no other achievements is going to kill your chances of any competitive finance job. If you have good people skills you might try PWM if you are set on a finance career. PWM has less math and getting a PWM gig is much easier than IB/PE/HF/VC.
If PWM isn't your thing than getting any kind of finance or accounting related position at a large company and kicking ass till you get promoted might be your best bet. You can't be picky at this point, try contacting some alumni and seeing if they can help you out. They will likely be more sympathetic to your situation than most hiring managers.
So you're a bad test taker, but if those tests were in history you would have gotten A's? How is that possible? Looks like you're just bad at finance.
Also--the only time you went to see a counselor for help with studying was on the 2nd exam of the last finance class during your senior year? Are you fucking kidding?
come on man, you're story doesn't even line up correctly. If you actually tried hard you would've gotten help after your first F, not your 15th.
I'd second the Military. It's the best social mobility tool besides a top undergrad college. Then go back to college with the new discipline, self-awareness (I feel like this is the big problem) and experience you've picked up and crush it.
I like how you put it. Social mobility. That's spot on. A catapult to a higher social strata, utilizing recognizable qualifiers to distinguish oneself. It seems like Military is a great "qualifier" of professional worth. At the least they will think you are a bad@ass (until they find out u were in a noncombat role but you can always embellish). In addition, the B-school bids wont go away anytime soon for ex Military, as we will probably continue to be in a state of turmoil globally and grad school programs will be responsive to the capabilities of these individuals. They also served their country and helping out the troops is great for a number of reasons. Corporate america needs more fearless heros with selfless characteristics.
Yeap, going military will teach you self-control and self-confidence. Those two things will make you a good test taker, AND coming from the military you will have better luck either finding an MBA program or getting an analyst position
Whoever else suggested reenrolling in undergrad, I thought of that as well. It might be a great option.
I suggest non-combat military, find out what you are really passionate about, and then go to a government sponsored graduate school for the redo. Your undergrad grades won't matter and it beats any $10/hr job.
one alum from my school started off as a janitor and made his way to PM at a well respected HF. It took him his entire life to get there.
While as a janitor he did a lot of community service and lobbied for political campaigns. Built his network from there and moved up step by step.
You don't ever even have to mention your first degree if you're recruiting during your second. The topic of age may come up, but you can tell your story and omit only the first college experience part, come up with a valid reason for the gap years, and it won't hurt you (at least as much as saying you're going back for a second UG degree).
Trying to help, so please don't take offense.
Financial modeling programs will not help you at all.
I would say that you need to figure out whether you are cut out for high finance or not. I don't know if you are, the information you have provided points to one of two things:
Those that suggest getting a 2nd undergrad degree without knowing that the 1st of the above reasons is the case, and that the second is not, are doing you a bit of a disservice. Given only what you have told us, I don't think it is reasonable to conclude that you would do 10x better if you were to do it again. And in case it is not clear, you most certainly would need to do 10x better - you would need to attend a much more competitive school, and you would need to do much much better in class. Your excuse of being a bad test-taker - whether true or not doesn't matter - will continue to hold you back from whatever you end up doing. So you need to overcome this.
I would advise you to figure out if you have the potential or not, and I know that is not an easy thing to figure out. The first things that come to mind are your test-taking ability ,your overall competency, and your work ethic. A good measure of those these might be working really hard to do one of 2 things: 1. Pass CFA level 1 2. Get a 700+ on the GMAT I know that both of the things above are generally not considered to be too difficult, but I think they would work well as exclusionary techniques - if you can not complete them, then you should forget about high finance.
If you do complete both of those, then you might be intellectually capable of making it into/surviving in high finance. Note that I say intellectually capable - you will still be quite far from getting in (though CFA would look good on your resume and could help), but if you can do that, then it is worth it to try. If not, then move on.
Once again, I hope you don't take offense to the above, but it really sounds like you need to figure out if it is worth it to try to break in, and doing a 2nd undergrad could be a horrific waste of time if you are not going to break in anyway. In the meanwhile, get yourself an office job - almost any office job. Anything that involves analyzing numbers, as others have said.
Also, how bad is your speech impediment? I know legally it can't be discriminated against, but if it is severe enough, it could rule out any client-facing roles in high finance.
Good luck, let me know if you have any questions about the above.
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