Non-Target to Bulge Bracket IBD
Hi all,
Since this site was so helpful for me while I pursued opportunities in banking, learned about networking, and improved my technical finance skills during my years in college, I figured I would quickly tell my story. This post is intended for undergraduates in their freshman – junior year that are interested in pursuing an internship / full-time job on Wall Street.
I was an arts and sciences major my first year at a non-target school (think top-75 business school), with no intentions of pursuing financial careers. However, as I learned about the opportunities my friends were getting at target schools, I figured I would learn more. I ended up “getting” courses accounting, finance, and economics, and networked quite a bit to land a lower middle-market PE internship my freshman year (just shows you that with sheer work ethic you can create opportunities for yourself). However, I wanted to work in a large financial market like NYC, SF, etc. and had to decide whether or not to pursue a transfer to a school with a larger representation on The Street.
I ended up transferring to a semi-target school (think UVA, UNC, UT, UCLA), which was the best decision I could have made. It opened doors I did not know existed – the fact that major banks recruited on campus allowed me to take networking to the next level, having understood the scarcity of opportunities at a non-target.
I made a trip up to NYC before my junior year at my new school and set up meetings with 30+ alumni I had met at information sessions and over the phone. This was my competitive advantage over kids that had been at the school since their freshman year (would highly recommend this for anyone that has the time).
I got lucky enough after many interviews to land a summer internship offer at a BB IBD, and will be going back full-time after accepting the return offer. I’m happy to answer any questions regarding my transfer process; I feel like lots of students are very “back and forth” about it, as was I at the time.
Do you think a regional target would by worth high tuition costs? Ex. Rice, Southern Methodist, Tulane all of these are targets for Houston and some have representation on the street but rather low. Thanks for sharing your story.
I think it could be worth it depending on the strength of the school's alumni network. Look on LinkedIn and see how many kids from the schools you're interested place into banks / groups you are interested in.
You could also reach out to alumni at each respective school and ask them for advice. I'm sure they would be happy to help.
Thanks, I've actually done this and gotten some solid connections before even transferring haha. I guess thats a good sign. What was your GPA?
What are your networking tips for getting an internship your Freshman Summer? I have no experience and the MD/VP/Analysts all went to higher-ranked schools. There is a one boutique IB & PE, and many wealth management firms.
Be open to any experiences in finance your freshman year. Few banks and private equity firms are willing to have a freshman intern due to the fact they probably haven't taken any classes in finance or accounting, but if you are persistent in reaching out, you will find something.
An opportunity in wealth management, corporate finance, commercial banking, or operations are all solid options for freshman year. Also, if you're willing to work unpaid, even more options will arise for you.
Yep this is 100% true. Honestly though if you read Rosenbaum or do WSP you'd be proficient enough to get in. Most pe shops won't give you real work as a freshman but it would definitely raise a few eyebrows if you already knew your technicals cold.
How exactly did you approach networking? As in, when you met with your alumni, what were the conversations like? I am kinda stumped at this point because I can get on the phone with some bankers I reach out to but I cant convert those calls into referrals to other employees or anything
It depends on your situation. If you are considering a transfer and trying to figure out which program is best:
Go on LinkedIn and find alumni (and current seniors) from the school, shoot them a quick note making light of your situation. I usually asked to get on the phone to ask about the alumni network and the career options. People are usually pretty open to answering these questions since they know you're probably doing the same thing for other schools as well.
If you've already transferred, reach out to the same crowd and ask them how they recommend going about the recruiting process. If you are new as a transfer, they'll be happy to answer questions and give you the overall run-down. Generally, when you get on the phone with people and ask who they recommend you chat with after, and they recommend someone you have already talked to, you've probably done sufficient diligence. Ultimately, I think a mix of quantity and quality of conversations will yield the best results.
Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions.
"Non-target to BB IBD, number one tip, leave your non-target for a bigger school"
... okay
Many Thanks, Sirs and Madams of WSO - Non-Target Graduate, BB MO to MM IBD Success (Originally Posted: 06/05/2011)
Just a shout out to thank all of the (helpful) denizens of this site; due in large part to your advice and musings, I, a non-target grad, just successfully obtained an offer to lateral from a MO Finance position at a BB (less than 1 year in) to an IBD position at a top-tier MM firm. Very excited to make the move, it has taken a lot of hard work and patience but it all paid off in the end.
Looking forward to continuing to contribute once I start, but from 'the other side'.
Best,
dublin
way to go
Congrats
Good shit
congrats bruh
was it as a lateral? congrats buddy
yup, as a lateral, didn't 'lose any time' even though my first experience wasn't IB
congrats!!!
Go dublin! Did you apply for an open spot, or did you land it through the "backdoor" i.e. networking? I'm curious to hear how networking could be utilized to lateral, that is, if you did indeed network and if you don't mind sharing a bit. Congrats.
Dude that is fucking awesome, congratulations man! Now you get to stick around and help the rest of us out, right? :)
congratulations!! best of luck going forward!
Congrats man! Best of luck to you as well.
Thanks y'all.
Swagon, I did try applying to listed positions, but what ultimately was successful was networking. I reached out to alumni, had them refer me to other people they knew, and so on and so forth. Each link in the chain ended up with a copy of my resume and (hopefully) a good impression of me. That, patience, and persistence are all you need to make the magic happen.
thanks dublin
Congratulations dublin. Glad to hear that your efforts paid off.
Thanks y'all
This gives me hope. Good shit though bro!
Keep your head up amigo, you'll get there
dublin, how exactly did networking lead to the interview? Did you just keep getting referrals until you ran into a banker needing an analyst? Were you explicitly asking about opportunities, or just purely networking/asking advice?
And how do you think it would be different for someone who has been out of school a year or two, but is more qualified for first year spots (not lateral positions)?
Non-Target to BB: Anything is Possible (Originally Posted: 11/30/2012)
Earlier this week I received the offer an offer for FT at a top BB, needless to say, I am really excited and sort of in a daze as I never thought this would be possible. I come from a complete non-target school in the southeast (the only recruiters that recruit for finance are insurance sale) and I am one of 3-5 people in the history of the school to make it into a BB FO. I have to say thank you to all the people on WSO who have given me advice over the years, and also note that this website might be one of the most important reasons why I am where I am today.
I am not going to delve into a long, boring story about my background, but rather, give some advice that I believe would be beneficial to students who in similar positions as I was throughout college.
Networking is everything - between freshman year of college and today, I have sent out hundreds of cold emails (more than I would ever like to count) and have spoken to 100+ people working in banking, accounting, Asset Management, anything that I thought was somewhat relevant to banking. I landed my 3 internships through cold emailing, and ended up receiving not only an invitation to interview at the BB for full time, but also, a fast track to super-day through the use of networking.
Know you sh&t - I had an interview for SA at a top MM firm junior year and got absolutely blown out of the water because I had not prepared at all for the basic questions like "walk me through your resume" and "how do the 3 statements connect". Going into senior year, I spent countless hours looking over the BIWS guides to drill down on my technicals and basic behaviorals, this paid huge dividends during the FT superday. Also, if you come from a non-target, expect to get the more esoteric technicals as interviewers are sometimes trying to find a way to prove that you are not on equal grounds with target school students.
Relevant experience is key - I had 3 relevant internships during undergrad: One at a PE Shop, One at a boutique IB, and another at a F500 company in Accounting. During all of my interviews, I was continually asked about what I did at these internships and how those experiences related to banking. During my internships, I continually worked to do work that related to IB in someway and I think that played a big role in me being able to set myself apart from the other candidates. I also made sure to answer the technical questions I was asked in my interviews with examples from my previous internships (if I had one), I believe this is a good way to show the interviewer you are not just regurgating information from the regular guides and adds to the validity of your internships.
Academics/Extra-curriculars - coming from a complete non-target, I worked endlessly in the classroom and outside of the classroom to ensure that Banks knew that I played a key role on campus. I double majored in Acg. and Finance, and helped start 3 different student led clubs/organizations on my campus. Being able to show interviewers that I was able to go the extra mile in the classroom, but also had a personality (starting a fishing club, a day trading club, and co-founded a fraternity) really stood out.
Persistance pays off - by far the best thing to do is have a junior SA at a bank you would like to work at and receive a FT offer. If you are like me and end up not getting one, the world is not over. I spent the summer studying the GMAT and continuing to network for FT, while also applying to MSF programs throughout the U.S. I ended up getting into a top tier program and was in the process of networking for a SA after my senior year when I got the FT offer. If you end up not getting the SA, or even the FT offer, realize that there is alternatives and banking can be done.
Overall this is a very quick summary of 4 years of hard work, for all the non-targets currently gunning for banking, it can be done, trust me. Right now I am sitting at my internship, sort of perplexed, that I have the opportunity to write this post. Thank you everyone once again for all the help over the years.
If there is anyway I can help any members on this site, please feel free to reach out to me.
Baller, good job dude. Enjoy the freedom before starting!
What was your GMAT score/want to sell me your books if you're done haha? I'm gonna start studying this winter break and take it possibly in June.Completely serious btw. Don't want to drop dough and new books.
And props! I hope to achieve the same from a non-target as well. Always inspiring.
My GMAT score was in range for a top MSF. I already sold the books, but if you decide to get some, Manhattan GMAT coupled with the official guides is definitely the way to go.
Congrats on the offer and good points on the advice to other prospective monkeys. Networking is key. Just remember that it's perfectly normal to be excited about landing the gig because it was an uphill battle and it certainly is a great accomplishment but stay humble. You seem hungry and your approach comes from a place of humility and work ethic so that's awesome. Just realize that being an analyst doesn't really make you a bad ass to anyone but yourself. It's a very empowering thing and I completely remember the feeling I had when I landed my offer. I felt invincible. Just know that you will be humbled quickly, harshly, and often once you start this job. You will become a glorified bitch to all your senior bankers, but you will develop a polish from the constant reprimands and work dumps that fall on you. Never forget where you came from because a day will come when you can delegate to less senior people and you want to remember how much you hated being treated poorly.
Best of luck in the new gig!
Thanks for the congrats, and I definitely agree about being humble. I know this job is going to be very hard, especially at the junior level, but like you were, right now I am just excited to know that I reached my goal of not only getting into banking, but also getting the bank and location I wanted to work at.
It's nice to get advice from someone in the industry, so thank you!
What school
Congrats dude, I am a complete non-target guy myself. Ball out!
you been had money now.
?
just kidding man, congrats!
that's what hard work is man. good job
How do BB's pick non-target students? (Originally Posted: 01/03/2007)
I'm from a non-target but have had VPs/MDs (alumni that I've networked with) at several BB's take my resume (for summar analyst position) and offer to help me get into the standard recruiting process. How will it be decided as to whether or not I get an interview, as its not like there are a set number of spots from my school that analysts will be picking resumes for? Does someone from HR decide, or is it analysts (or is it both)? Basically, I'm just wondering what happens to the resumes of non-target students that have a "connection" at the bank. Thanks for any info.
Most alumni are pretty good at putting the resume's of individuals from their institution into the laps of hiring managers/directors regardless of the firm's relationship with that particular school. I would say keep in close contact with the alumni you networked with, (don't pester) and allow them to do the hardest part, getting you a face to face interview. After that it's up to you.
Remember that coming from a non-target, you have to be better than your ivy-league counterparts, as inequitable as this is, there is zero margin for error. Continue to develop your resume (provide them an updated copy when you are 95% sure of it's finality), prepare rigourously and in the end it's their decision...Good Luck!!!
Which internship for BB IBD? (Non-Target-Struggle) (Originally Posted: 01/30/2012)
Hey guys
I'm a non target student in Europe who wants to get an offcycle IBD internship at a BB or a top boutique in early 2013.
I have two internship offers for this spring and I'm wondering which of these options would be better in terms of IBD recruiting at the bigger banks.
1) Big4 TAS (Transaction Support, which means that I will mostly do Financial DD and stuff like that)
2) M&A Boutique (Regional boutique, ~20 employees, small mid-cap deals)
I know that it's better to choose a boutique offer over Big4 TAS (yes i used the search function), but this boutique was only once in the top25 mid-cap league tables in my country (2009). That said, I guess that it has no real reputation in the industry.
Should I still accept the boutique offer because the work will be more related to IBD work at the bigger banks or should I go for the Big4 brand name (considering that I already was at a Big4 company in their Audit department)
Thanks everyone!
I know that it's better to choose a boutique offer over Big4 TAS (yes i used the search function). (period)
Although it has no real reputation / brand recognition?
Correct. I went into SA recruitment with two no name boutiques ibd internships and people loved that -- got multiple offers. Very Relevant experience is all that matters. If possible do both. Since it is a regional bank then they may be more flexibile with dates?
Especially since you have already done big 4. THat confuses your "story" if you did another one. Do you want to do banking or big 4 ?
Yeah, that came to my mind, too. Thank you very much for your advice!
Are there any other opinions?
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