Here's a little something to offend the senses on a Friday afternoon.
The genius pictured to the left is Michael Crabtree, a standout wide receiver from Texas Tech. Mr. Crabtree (drafted by the 49ers) is threatening to sit out his rookie season because he doesn't agree with the position at which he was picked in the draft. Now he says he won't sign unless he is given a bonus of at least $23.5 million, which is what the guy who went before him got. He deems anything less to be "unacceptable". He is basing his threats on the preponderance of mock drafts that placed him higher than he actually went in the REAL draft:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-michaelc…
The ridiculousness of a guy who’s never caught a professional pass deeming $20-something million “unacceptable” is a testament to the troublesome way the NFL pays its rookies. A sense of youthful entitlement combines with a flawed structure so that the unproven rookie often makes more than the veteran All-Pro.
Now let's contrast that to the situation faced by Phibro's Andrew Hall. Here is an industry veteran who generated $2 billion in profit to his parent company over the past 5 years, and 52% of this forum (myself included) believes he won't get the $100 million he is CONTRACTUALLY OWED because of the current political climate on Wall Street.
Where's the public outrage when it comes to a kid, fresh out of college, who has accomplished exactly jack shit, and is demanding $23 million just to suit up?
Just thought this might put things in a little perspective for those on the board who think Hall's bonus is "obscene".
Reminds me of Kenny Powers.
As for Hall, I hope they do some kind of closed door deal where they defer his comp for a year or 2 until all this media/public frenzy subsides.
All the leading IBs/PE/HF are American, that wont be the case once people are getting shafted left and right and go someplace where they are actually rewarded and fairly compensated for being a rock star in their field.
Well considering the government doesn't have a 34% stake in the NFL, and the NFL isn't being supported by taxpayer money...
Yeah! Take your $2 billion of profit elsewhere Hall! ....uh, wait a second...$2 billion minus $100 million = ????
shit, i'll shut up now. please stay.
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Hall's 100M comp packaged is based on his performance. So if he made $2B for Citi, he created ($2B-100M)*34% incremental value for the US Tax Payer.
The only reason people find this so offensive is because they are painfully aware that they themselves are unable to create anything more than a 54K annual income.
Pay the man.
The government should certainly NOT be constrained by the restrictive covenants of a legal contract...well, at least not the Obama administration.
And as another poster pointed out, the NFL is HEAVILY subsidized by the taxpayers.
The fact of the matter remains there is an entirely different attitude when it comes to Wall Street type people getting large payouts vs. the average joe. Could you imagine the public outcry if Joe-cenna Thomas from Nowhere, OK won the Powerball lottery to the tune of $100 million dollars and the people in charge where like, ehh, its a tough economy so we are just going to pay out $2 million instead.
Plain and simple...it's a double standard, cut and dry.
Regards
This populist bitching is getting out of hand. It's beyond Wall Street. People complain about Urban Meyer's contract ("It's not appropriate in this economy!!! Whahhhh!) even though he nets far more for UF. It's a crime to make a buck right now.
Well, he'll either get it or he won't. If he does, good for him. If he doesn't, well he knew the risks of this strategy.
Crabtree is an idiot. However, his agent has a clear understanding of the obscene bargaining position that all-star rookies have in the NFL right now. I honestly think that taxpayer funded or not, athlete pay structure will be the next target of populist rage. Examples like this will provide ample ammo.
If you check out the forums on ESPN.com, you will see this kind of rage over athletes' compensation all the time. That being said, I think it's easier for the common person to relate to the athletes because most people partake in the sports world by playing the sport, watching the sport on tv, going to games, etc. Add in the fact that many of these athletes came from difficult upbringings and the typical athlete is even easier for the common American to commiserate with. Most people think of Wall Street as being more exclusive and mainly composed of people from well-off backgrounds. I don't necessarily agree with the pay structure for professional athletes, but that's just how I see it.
By the way, Crabtree is a BEAST on the field. Just to be fair, Crabtree deserves more than Heyward-Bey ($23.5 M guaranteed, which is an idiotic move by the Raiders).
The only time I've ever seen him play was in the Texas upset, and he was awesome. But that was just one game. Is he really that good? or is he just better than Heyward-Bey?
I guess when I think about holdouts, I think about monster talent that spans an entire career, like John Elway or Eli Manning. Everybody else I've ever seen hold out just looked like punks and got obliterated in the league.
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I think most people don't delude themselves into believing that they are just like a pro-athlete. The athlete is 6 ft 4 inches, has raw jaw dropping talent, is visibly athletic and its very apparent that the average Joe could NEVER accomplish the things this individual has (whats not as visible is a drive and determination it took for that individual to get to that level).
Whats more is that every touchdown, 3-pointer and homerun the athlete accomplishes isn't a testament to the average Joe's shortcomings. Joe knows that no matter how hard he could have tried he never would have been able to dunk like that, hit the ball that hard, or spin and doge on-coming behemoth defensivemen.
Take your wall street guy though, and many of them have come from very modest backgrounds, their skull isn't 42 inches in circumference to house their massive brains. They were and are just like your average Joe, except they were a lot more intelligent, more focused/driven and harder working.
What the average Joe resents so much about them is that Joe could have been in the exact same position as him, IF he wasn't such a lazy, worthless, gluttonous piece of shit. They convince themselves that the wall streeter is sinister, is exploiting others for their own monetary gain. Its not that average Joe COULDN'T accomplish it, its that their unparalleled moral compass will not allow it. Thats why they smoked weed all through high school, thats why they went to a community college for 2 and a half semesters, and thats why they work as a manager at Men's Warehouse.
Well just my 2 cents, but when he played us in the Cotton Bowl. He didn't look he was worth that at all. I'm all for the free market but seriously, know what you're worth.
Marcus, I dont think people delude themselves into thinking that they are pro athletes either. But the matter of fact is sports is an integral part of the American lifestyle. Wall Street and IB are important to America's financial success, but the Average Joe doesn't know jack shit about what an investment banker does, except what the media publicizes (Wall Street greed, risky bets on investments, etc.). Even if the Average Joe couldn't throw down monster dunks on a 10 foot rim, he could still shoot around with friends and go to the local park to play some pickup ball. It's not like you could show up at Goldman Sachs and request a pickup investment banking stint.
However, I think you seem to be marginalizing the hard work and commitment it takes to be a pro athlete at the highest levels. A lot of them are handed natural ability but you don't become the best by slacking off. That is why kids play sports, to teach them the same values that will make them sucessful later on in life.
And yes, not everybody on Wall Street comes from a wealthy background. Fair or not though, it is what it is and that is Wall Street's reputation.
Edmundo, he absolutely is. Heyward-Bey is an OK receiver, but nowhere near the level of Crabtree in college. Crabtree isn't flashy but he's strong and gets the job done.
So here we have this entitled crybaby who was drafted number 10 threatening to not play and re-enter the draft next year if he doesn't get the money he wants when a little further down the draft line is a truly compelling story.
Drafted number 23 by the Baltimore Ravens was left tackle Mike Oher. Never heard of him? You will.
And, if you have the time, here is a 10-page piece Michael Lewis wrote about him for the New York Times Magazine:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/magazine/24football.html?pagewanted=1…
Funny how you don't hear this kid whining about money, or how he's so much better than someone else when he hasn't played a day of pro ball in his life.
Here's hoping Mike Oher goes on to be one of the greats. I know I'll be rooting for him.
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.
Definitely rooting for Oher.
A few points. Firstly, the reason NFL rookies demand large bonuses is because that is the only guaranteed part of their contract. If this kid gets injured his first game, he doesn't get paid. I can understand why he wants some security. Secondly, if he does end up being an all-pro, he'll be locked in to his rookie contract for several years; which would you rather have, Crabtree, a player very likely to succeed being possibly overpaid, or a situation like Ryan Howard, who won the MVP and still could barely negotiate a respectable contract. I see the point being made, but I think that we have to remember how short a player's career is and how one-sided the negotiating table frequently is.
Secondly, I think it is absurd to say the NFL is not taxpayer-subsidized - have any of you looked at who pays for stadiums in this country?
Did you guys see Oher's interview immediately after he got drafted? He said something along the lines of:
"I don't really care when I got drafted. I'm going to be the best at what I do and do the best I can."
And he sounded real scary when he said it.
Further, Wall Street has been subsidizing working class people for decades - look at the outstanding credit card loans that welfare sucking liberals have been defaulting on...now they bitch about someone who has the smarts to make a lot of money...pure jealousy.
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I'm posting this for two reasons:
1) I'm a huge Doug Stanhope fan 2) I think it's germane to the conversation in that Stanhope addresses the issue of how much is too much money in pro football.
Plus, the mental picture of Ricky Williams sitting behind the Dolphins' bench in full pads and uniform, high as a kite, just cracks me up.
As always, Stanhope is Not Safe For Work.
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Check out who his agent is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_E._Parker
Just thought I'd let you guys know that football, THE ONE PLAYED WITH YOUR FEET, is the best sport in the world!
Cheers
No argument here.
x3
Soccer is for pussies. Seriously, the game is 75% flopping. If you flop in football someone steps on your hand and breaks it.
It is an unfortunate part of the game. Coaches make you act, the players themselves hate doing it (except C. Ronaldo, that shemale loves it). However, it is not a weak game. Most lists have it as a top 5 most dangerous sport (in terms of injuries). It requires a much greater deal of thinking than football, baseball, and basketball. If you've ever played it competitively, you'd know that it can get rough (pushing, out-muscling, sliding, elbowing).
If you want to bring up a sport that is truly more dangerous, mention Rugby for the body exposure. Having played both kinds of football, I'd say they're about equal in terms of danger.
Soccer Slap Fight:
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Rugby and soccer are about equal in terms of danger?
Whatever you have to tell yourself.
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What I was trying to say was that football and soccer are about equal in danger, and that rugby is a sport worth mentioning as more dangerous than soccer.
You put a video up of a Uruguay game... what were you expecting? They havent won a World Cup since 1950. However, h.e.pennypacker does bring up a good point about acting.
And "soccer" requires much more creativity, agility and skill than any american sport out there. The only somewhat comparable one is basketball and that's because lebron is playing.
Crabtree's being a bitch, for sure. However, I'm more pissed about what Strasburg and the rest of Boras' clients are pulling in baseball. Strasburg got offered the biggest guaranteed contract ever for a drafted pitcher, and he still might not sign.
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