White People Benefit Most from Aff Action

Getting annoyed constantly seeing all these whiny posts from white guys complaining that all the minorities are taking their $250k high finance jobs, while they sit in their offices that are 90% white.

Statistically, white women benefit the most - by far - from AA more than anyone else. And when you look at things like ivy admissions, the only reason places like HYP aren't almost entirely comprised of Asian students (who statistically outperform almost all other racial groups on paper) are because institutions are afraid to allow white people to become the vast minority and alienate white applicants/money.

If the world was a complete meritocracy, Joey from the Long Island private high school with a 3.85 might not have gotten into Harvard without admissions taking race into account to ensure a "diverse" class. It's almost like you all think that if your high paying job or high ranking college isn't filled with all white men, then something is wrong and everyone else must be unqualified. Gross.

So please leave the AA tears off WSO. And if you're scared that the Jamals and Carmens of the world are coming to take your lunch, work harder and shut the f*** up while you sit in your summer house in Capri.

See link for stats references:

https://www.acluok.org/sites/default/files/wp/wp-…

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-sup…

https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/uk/17/04/other-a…

https://www.pnas.org/content/111/23/8416

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Comments (42)

Oct 14, 2021 - 12:57pm

You make a lot of false claims with no data, which means you're just making this up.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Oct 14, 2021 - 1:07pm

Why did you say "white people" benefit in your subject if you're primarily talking about "white women" - it's a bit misleading.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Oct 14, 2021 - 1:07pm

It is not usually the whiny white guys on here who complain about AA.  Today's topic is the exception.

Oct 14, 2021 - 1:09pm

This whole thread is people complaining about white people. How dare we exist.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn

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Oct 14, 2021 - 1:15pm

It is going to end up not being much different from the other AA topic from today or the ones we see weekly.

Oct 14, 2021 - 1:17pm

Nothing wrong with being white. But complaining that someone is stealing from you while you're doing better than everyone else is annoying. Every racial group has some annoying quality. Whining about affirmative action is that for white people.

  • Associate 1 in ER
Oct 14, 2021 - 2:15pm

Yankee Doodle

This whole thread is people complaining about white people. How dare we exist.

No one is complaining about people being white.

people are complaining about white people complaining. Big difference. Why are white dudes always acting so oppressed holy shit lol , turn off CNN retards

Oct 14, 2021 - 2:18pm

The people complaining about other people complaining sound like a bunch of pussies if you ask me.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn

Oct 14, 2021 - 1:38pm

wittyusrnm

Getting annoyed constantly seeing all these whiny posts from white guys complaining that all the minorities are taking their $250k high finance jobs, while they sit in their offices that are 90% white [because of increasing Asian hires, most are not 90% white].

Statistically, white women benefit the most - by far - from AA more than anyone else [if you measure the claimed benefit by taking HS/college performance and then correlating it with admissions/job offer outcomes, this is not close to being the case]. And when you look at things like ivy admissions, the only reason places like HYP aren't almost entirely comprised of Asian students (who statistically outperform almost all other racial groups on paper) are because institutions are afraid to allow white people to become the vast minority and alienate white applicants/money. [go look at the discovery process of the Harvard admissions lawsuit, in a strictly GPA-SAT admissions policy there would be increased Asian admissions and roughly the same proportion of white people; those who "underperform" the most in the admissions process given their standardized test scores and cognitive assessments are rural/downscale whites, the PSAT has done reams of research on this.  Harvard's internal research team conducted these studies and put them in easily digestible powerpoint graphs, not expecting them to be made public]

If the world was a complete meritocracy, Joey from the Long Island private high school [is this supposed to mean LI private schools are great? Is Joey supposed to be a rich person's name?] with a 3.85 might not have gotten into Harvard without admissions taking race into account to ensure a "diverse" class. It's almost like you all think that if your high paying job or high ranking college isn't filled with all white men, then something is wrong and everyone else must be unqualified [no one implied this, if anything this forum is filled with admiration for Asian-Americans]. Gross.

So please leave the AA tears off WSO. And if you're scared that the Jamals and Carmens of the world are coming to take your lunch [no one is scared of this], work harder and shut the f*** up while you sit in your summer house in Capri [do you know any American national in your office or social circles with a fully owned summer house on Capri?  People with that level of wealth do not own summer houses in Capri.....].

See link for stats references:

https://www.acluok.org/sites/default/files/wp/wp-…

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-sup…

https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/uk/17/04/other-a…

https://www.pnas.org/content/111/23/8416

Fixed it for you in brackets.  

Oct 14, 2021 - 3:02pm

Mostly agree with this.  If more Asians did sports or sent their kids to the same universities (which is less common at the moment since Asians are relatively new to the US) then they'd have much of the same benefits whites have.  None of it is done on a racial basis.

But why do you think people aren't scared of losing their jobs to minorities through affirmative action?  Isn't that the reason most people are against it, because they think people with less qualifications will take their jobs just because of skin color?

Oct 14, 2021 - 3:16pm

Drumpfy

Mostly agree with this.  If more Asians did sports or sent their kids to the same universities (which is less common at the moment since Asians are relatively new to the US) then they'd have much of the same benefits whites have.  None of it is done on a racial basis.

But why do you think people aren't scared of losing their jobs to minorities through affirmative action?  Isn't that the reason most people are against it, because they think people with less qualifications will take their jobs just because of skin color?

I think people are against it on abstract terms rather than day-to-day considerations in terms of employment (for admissions it is more visceral). I do not think it is an active concern for many in the office. Its usage varies so much by field and the degree of scarcity affects how it is perceived. If you are trying to obtain a tenure track position (there are so few of them) or become a doctor, it will be more significant than say finance at the middle to upper levels. 

Oct 14, 2021 - 1:52pm

The claim that white women are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action is incredibly misleading. It conflates two sets of policies - bans on gender/race employment discrimination (what's helped white women) and boosts for certain minority groups in college admissions and hiring (what's usually referred to as "affirmative action"). The latter currently provides minimal benefit to white women. 

Additionally, we have case studies from states that have banned affirmative action then saw white enrollment in competitive institutions increase, suggesting whites in aggregate are not helped by these programs, e.g.: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-22/prop-209s-affirmati…

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Oct 14, 2021 - 1:58pm

I 100% agree with you OP, I believe we should discriminate against women.

Oct 14, 2021 - 2:07pm

When it comes to law school applications, white women don't get a boost, but URMs have roughly a 7% advantage.

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https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/do-underrepresented-minority-urm-appli…

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Oct 14, 2021 - 2:37pm

This is underestimating the advantage. You see it in the backend where no aff action admits get onto law review or the top half of the class in the T13, a professor mentions this fact, and the school exploded without rebutting the claim. 

Oct 14, 2021 - 2:17pm

Your sources are pretty garbage.

The first source says that affirmative action benefits Asians.

Your second source says that affirmative action benefits white women who hold managerial jobs over Latinos, Asians, and Blacks, but considers Asians beneficiaries of affirmative action

The third source is mostly dedicated to explaining the fourth source.

The fourth source is concerned with Asian Americans finishing high school and college.

None of these explain your argument.  This is from the Harvard affirmative action court case, and it says that neither whites nor Asians benefit from affirmative action.

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/georgetown-law-journal/wp-content/upload…

The court specifically found that race is used as "a tip or plus factor" for "African American and Hispanic applicants, while white and Asian American applicants are unlikely to receive a meaningful race-based tip."  Notably, outside of the context of race, the only other category to meaningfully receive such "tips" are "recruited athletes, legacies, applicants on the dean's or director's interest lists, and children of faculty or staff" ("ALDCs").

So the benefit towards whites is mostly a result of the fact that whites are more likely to play sports or have a parent who attended since Asians are relatively new to the US.

Oct 14, 2021 - 3:34pm

Please tell me one example how a white male has benefitted from affirmative action?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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  • Intern in IB - Cov
Oct 14, 2021 - 7:35pm

Very anecdotal, but as a black woman who recently interned at a GS/MS/JPM, I was astounded at how easily I breezed through the recruiting process compared to my non-diversity peers. I spent hours on end learning accounting and valuation concepts, working through M&I 400 practice questions and reading about recent deals that were of interest to me. I was asked a grand total of zero technical questions across my five interviews. Make no mistake: these firms lower the bar to abysmally low levels for racially diverse candidates and it's really frustrating for some of us. I genuinely want to believe that I would've earned the spot in a merit-based process, but I'll never know. I'm left with an unshakeable, lingering feeling of being an imposter. It's deprived me of my sense of pride in my accomplishments and I resent being tokenized as a black woman. Ever wondered why there's always a photographer at these firmwide diversity events? How else is David Solomon and the PR team going to respond to the DEI Twitter mob?

Based on the title of this post alone, I was prepared to read a humorously satirical piece. But this post is a great reminder that my views on race - that we should eradicate racial discrimination of any kind, including race-based hiring of historically underrepresented racial minorities - is becoming increasingly less mainstream. I think a lot of people on this forum need to relinquish their white savior complexes. We are capable and we do not need your condescending special treatment.

I think this is an important message for an audience that is - I assume - predominantly white and male. I speak on behalf of myself, my family and my close friends as I write this reply. We don't all think the same, and some of us would greatly appreciate it if we were treated as individuals, and not members of a helpless racial group in dire need of your handouts.

Oct 14, 2021 - 7:35pm

sounds like fake news - i'm involved in recruiting and this is impossible - zero technicals, sis? you don't have to lie to make a good point (which is that all forms of non-merit based admissions should go away and be replaced by blind processes (scientists do this, pilots do this, but somehow clubby corporate environments use the big lie of "culture" to pick winners of different kinds (rich kids, cool kids, cute kids, smooth-talking kids, quota hires including white women and other "sacred" groups). Why?

  • Intern in IB - Cov
Oct 14, 2021 - 7:35pm

The most 'technical' portion of the interviews tested my general understanding of investment banking. Key functions of an investment bank, their role in the global economy, how banks differ from one another and why I thought I was best suited for the investment banking division at this particular firm. I was also asked to discuss any recent deal that was of interest to me. If I can answer the question by reading the job post or skimming WSJ once a week, I don't consider it technical. Perhaps my definition of a 'technical question' is narrow but I can assure you that the regular process at this firm sounded far more intense.

I also hope that my experience is anecdotal. However, I doubt that diversity interviews are as rigorous as regular interviews. Since you're involved in recruiting, I'd love to hear you weigh in on your firm's approach to diversity recruiting and how it differs from the regular process.

Oct 14, 2021 - 7:35pm

100% fake news, LOL. GS, of all places, stands by their "proven" interview style. Skipping technical is outrageous. /Also, did it occur to you that you were just better in your rounds?

None of my black colleagues had cakewalk interviews. We were cramming like mad together and deliberating after interview our sessions. They were easy for no one.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if you're killing on the job. /But agreed, I'd go so far as to say most of the black employees are on the job because they actually had to work their asses off. And secret time...many also *don't* come from struggling backgrounds. Shocker to realize that there are rich and Ivy-league black kids in the game.

  • Intern in IB - Cov
Oct 14, 2021 - 7:35pm

The most charitable interpretation of my recruiting experience is that my background (target / strong GPA in STEM field / prior tech internship) led them to believe that I was a highly qualified candidate, and that as a result, I would gain technical knowledge with relative ease. I also think I carry myself well in interviews, and that at this firm, I had particularly interesting and enjoyable conversations which might've detracted from any type of technical assessment I would've otherwise had.

I'm open to that possibility, but I am doubtful given my experience and the experiences of my peers in my social/professional circle. Believe it or not, it's actually very refreshing for me to hear pushback on my experience. I certainly hope it's not representative of the typical diversity recruiting experience and I plan to learn more when I join full-time.

I agree with your point on the background of diversity candidates, but I'd take it one step further. In the 21st century, the greatest impediment to breaking into IB isn't race. It's a variety of other factors, like socioeconomic status. The wealthy and well-connected have a variety of advantages in recruiting, regardless of race. If you don't get the IB job you wanted, it's probably not because the 29-year-old VP who studied environmental science at UC Berkeley is an evil racist. It's probably because you weren't the most qualified candidate. And that's where a variety of factors like socioeconomic background and your upbringing are much more relevant. These diversity programs are using race as a proxy for 'struggling background' and I think that's disgraceful.

Oct 14, 2021 - 7:35pm

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