I have to say I'm leaning towards Biden, though Andrew Yang does intrigue me - not because of the UBI proposal but because of his focus on 21st century issues related to tech / automation.
Couldn't possibly vote for Trump, guy is a complete clown.
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Trump.
It's telling that you posted that anonymously
General Hafez Aladeen
Trump. Most of my friends are supporting Biden or Yang. I think Yang is a good guy, and I have no beef with him, whereas I absolutely loathe Bernie/Warren/Buttigieg. I do disagree with Yang on most policies such as UBI, VAT, health care, immigration, China.
Genuinely curious to hear why people want to vote for Trump. Any potential Trump voter care to explain their rationale?
My personal opinion is Trump’s essentially got no moral compass and, given his incoherent rambling in every interview and impulsive decision making, also probably has some kind of mental illness, e.g. Alzheimer’s, at this point. I don’t know if I can vote Republican again until he’s been replaced as the candidate. “He tells it like it is” isn’t enough for me to vote for him given all of his massive character flaws.
What's the alternative?
Literally anyone else.
Sure. If you're genuinely interested. I'll quote your other message below as a guide. I'm a conservative Christian (a renewed one as of 2019 after a decade of lapsed spirituality). Hope that context helps.
I agree that Yang has the temperment that 2020 America needs. But it's a moot point. He will never win the nomination. Just in terms of temperment, I agree that Biden has a better presidential temperment than Trump. I can't agree with you on Warren and Sanders. Sanders, for goodness sake, was an open supporter of the Soviet Union during the height of the Cold War and was a vocal supporter of Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro. Let's be real. No one who is a leaner toward the GOP/conservatism would really consider Sanders or Warren, if for no other reason than their insane policies. Forget their temperment.
So, if you're asking Republican leaners to break from Trump in favor of Warren or Sanders then you are barking up the wrong tree. Biden or Yang? I can at least appreciate that it then becomes a genuine decision between voting for Trump and breaking from him.
We're not. But you kind of just described about 90% of politicians. Thereinlies the rub--Trump may be the polar opposite of mature, humble, and truthful; on the other hand, Trump has no monopoly on those poor qualities. Any person who throws his or her hat into the ring for President of the United States has an ego the size of Manhattan, has a good chance of being a pathological liar, and is not necessarily someone to be admired. Jimmy Carter might be the closest thing we've had in 100 years to a person of true moral character in the Oval Office, yet that did not ensure a great presidency or good leadership.
Trump has been talking about middle America and blue collar jobs since the 1980s. It may be safe to conclude that for whatever reason this is an issue close to his heart. You see wealthy people all the time with pet moral and charitable projects. That really isn't surprising. You also have to consider the alternative. Trump's opponents are wealthy coastal elites who have expressed outright contempt for that middle America. So it isn't a matter of believing that Trump cares, but believing that he is less hostible to their cause (true or not).
This is a topic dear to my heart. I have argued that culture is far more important to voters than economics.
For one, conservative Christians believe that all rulers are chosen by or allowed to rule by God, both good and evi rulersl. This "chosen by God" stuff and Trump has been quoted wildly out of context on a number of occassions and has served to spread misinformation about what we believe. Secondly, it comes back to the alternative. Trump is everything bad you've just described, yet because culture is such an imporant issue for voters, conservative Christians like me see a wildly imperfect Trump and contrast him to his clean cut opponents who are openly advocating for public financing of abortion until the time of birth, who are suing Christian bakers, photographers, and wedding venues to force them to participate in gay weddings, who have advocated removing tax exempt status only from churches with "wrong" theology (Beto O'Rourke), who are demanding single-sex bathrooms and the effective end of women's sports for the benefit of a tiny few, who are suing the Little Sisters of the Poor to force them to provide contraceptives, who are shutting down Catholic adoption services for not adopting out to gay couples, and the list goes on.
We will take Trump's low character over outright hostility any day of the week.
I hope this provides insight into our thinking, regardless if you agree or not.
All it helps to do is highlight the moral disconnect between the teachings of Jesus and conservative Christianity.
"Trump's opponents are wealthy coastal elites who have expressed outright contempt for that middle America."
To that I would say Trump has been trying to portray himself as a wealthy coastal elite until he announced in 2015. He put his name in gold on buildings in Manhattan and inflated his personal wealth to magazines for decades to appear higher on the millionaires/billionaires list. He only started talking about middle America and blue collar jobs when it became politically expedient for him. There are no major constituent blocs outside of the core ones he has that he could've become a champion for. New Yorkers disliked him and knew him to be phony before he ran for president. Why? Because Trump has always been about Trump and no one else. He wouldn't be able to claim the progressive base, the so-called coastal elites (in reality most people on the coast aren't elite, the top 10% is by definition just 10%) because most of them know him to be the biggest BS artist of them all. On almost all the issues you've cited, those are a minority in the progressive bloc. Both right and left voting blocs have crazies. I and almost all of my friends (mostly progressives) probably agree more with you on the issues you've cited than with the SJWs. Businesses don't want to serve certain clients -- that's fine by me, but don't get upset if the SJWs (who I'm not responsible for) call for boycotts. On sports I think there should be a "pure" women's sports. On contraceptives, it's really not that hard to obtain...most major cities have public services. Those are again the SJWs that you've mistakenly equated to as the entire left. Trump is a playboy adulterer, how do you think he really feels about contraceptives and abortions? At best you're buying 4-8 years of more restrictive abortion policies in red states (which you could've gotten without Trump) at the incredible expense of America's standing in the world and a huge move backward in social norms and in tackling climate change.
Most of the left is concerned about middle America and blue collar jobs (unions are a big part of the Democratic base), and would probably do a better job than Trump at tackling the issues. Unfortunately they all got drowned out by Hillary's emails... I have never seen the recipe of cutting taxes, increasing defense expenditure, and cutting social services actually alleviate any of America's problems.
Vote for the Democratic candidate if you need to until the Republican Party puts up a competent Presidential candidate. Regardless of whatever conspiracy theories networks like Fox News and Breitbart spit out, any of the main Democratic contenders (Biden, Warren, Yang, and to a lesser extent, Sanders) has the temperament, policies and experience to make a more measured, thoughtful, competent, and rational President than Donald Trump. It truly boggles my mind that otherwise very smart, rational people are willing to blindly support the childish, egotistical con man currently sitting in the Oval Office. One of most amazing things to me is how middle Americans think Trump, the poster boy for silver spoon wealthy New York childhoods, cares for coal miners and Rust Belt jobs, and how evangelical Christians think Trump, the serial philanderer and cheater, is a Christian/chosen by God. My thoughts are that American politics have basically become so polarized that people will support their “team” (Republican or Democrat) regardless of how unqualified, incompetent, or immoral their candidates may be.
The irony is that you are calling all Democratic candidates competent (including one who outright supported Stalin). Looks like you will stay true to the Democratic Party no matter how bad the candidates will be...
What an awful argument. I said they're competent because, news flash, they are competent at what they do. Not because they're Democratic members. I've voted Republican more than Democrat in my life. Every one of the 3 or 4 major Democratic candidates, even with their flaws, has the temperament and experience to make a better President than the man-child that is Donald Trump. The Republican Party's been in a steady moral and policy-based decline since the Tea Party hijacked its right wing in the past decade, which has resulted in the host from the Apprentice, about 10-15 years past his cognitive expiry date, currently sitting in the Oval Office.
It's truly astounding that intelligent, every day Americans look at Donald Trump, who has the attention span of a bored teenager, the vocabulary of a 5-year old, a knowledge of socioeconomic/military issues and policies equivalent to that of a high school dropout, the ego the size of Manhattan, and the empathy of a sociopath and think "This. This is what America's leaders should be like." At this point, way too many Republican voters are putting party over country. Republican voters need to send a message to the party and boot this fool out and bring in a candidate whose goal is to actually advance conservative interests and values, not his own interests and values.
Sanders for accellerationism
Trump.
In the 2016 GOP primary, I was a Rubio guy and a strong opponent of Trump. The day or so before the 2016 general election I was deciding between a very reluctant Trump vote or an abstention. I very reluctantly voted for Trump. Much to my surprise, he has been a fairly excellent President. I still don't like his personality or temperment (I'm a "Romney" guy by my nature) and don't really agree with his strategy on trade, but I agree with most of his policies and the economy is doing well. My 401ks are just going gangbusters the last year or so. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
But, I've got to say, if the Democrats had nominated Yang or Tim Ryan, I would have strongly considered voting for them. But given the choice between Trump and [insert the communist and Ayatollah and Hezbollah sympathizer] I will take Trump without any hesitation this time. In fact, I actually plant to donate to the Trump campaign this time. I've been converted from a reluctant to enthusiastic supporter.
This is laughable in both its absurdity and its utter disconnect from reality.
Trump will go down as one of the least effective and most corrupt presidents in American history.
Hold your nose and vote for him if that’s what your politics tell you, but don’t drink the Kool Aid.
Great foreign policy, strong economy. Is he George Washington or Ronald Reagan? Nope! Do I think he's been a good president? Yep! Do I need to take lessons in corruption from a party that has Maxine Waters in its leadership and a congressman who was literally impeached and removed from his job as a federal judge for corruption? Nope!
Bloomberg followed by Buttigieg. At a dinner a couple months ago, the chief economist for GS told me that he thought anybody besides Warren would be better for the economy than Trump, although he dismissed Bernie from getting the nomination, as he is such a factional candidate.
It seems like Bloomberg is Wall Street's favorite candidate followed by Buttigieg. In Silicon Valley, Buttigieg is the most popular followed by Warren. I recently came across an article where GS said that 87% of its high net worth clients think Trump will win re-election.
Interesting, but GS clients is going to be a small sample size. From what I understand a lot of the new retail data hasn't been incorporated yet. I'm giving him just under even odds, and that's given how the economy is doing. I'm not a big fan, and see a potential 2020 win as largely do to the quirks of the electoral college.
I don’t support Bernie or Trump.
With that said, some here view the idea of Bernie pulling Republican voters from Trump as ludicrous. He appeals to much of the same type of voter as Trump does. And they actually align more on issues relating to trade, military intervention, and “the establishment” than any other of the possible match ups.
Biden probably has more pull when it comes to independent and moderate voters. But blue collar ? Not a chance.
Again, I don’t support either. But for some reason people view them as opposite poles when they’re actually not on some of the issues that people care about the most.
I think most of us can agree on one thing.. How the fuck did we end up with Bernie (or Biden) versus Trump? I’ve always found it odd where it seems that many elections are choosing the perceived lesser of two evils. Maybe that’s a result of everyone throwing mud at each other during these elections.
Also, the whole topic above about Jesus and Trump is an odd one to have. Trump is not an embodiment of the Christian teachings. I’m not Christian, I’m Jewish, but I’m well versed in the Torah, Bible, and Qur’an. Sure, his stance on abortion is in line but everything else isn’t.
To think Trump is for blue collar jobs is absurd. Anyone in the RE industry knows he screws subs and GCs hard. How do you increase an IRR? Don’t pay your bills. Outside of that, he has no real power to “bring these jobs back”. It’s a stupid punchline that appeals to (controversial to say this, but not factually incorrect) largely uneducated, poor, and nearly hopeless voters. I know the whole learn2code notion is pretty dumb, but these blue collar workers need to get retrained and re-educated or else they have zero hope in the modern economy.
Which is why I’m pro Andrew Yang. I don’t believe in UBI but I doubt that would fly in congress anyway. I’m also very pro automation and switched my entire career to work on it. A lot of tasks can be replaced by for loops and while loops. A lot more tasks can be replaced by recursive functions and even more by machine learning and even deep learning.
I’m somewhere between an empathetic guy who wants everyone in the world to be okay and an outright nihilistic thinking there’s no hope, depending on the day.
American politics needs to change. If it doesn’t, I hope future generations learn from us and the Romans. Maybe third time will be the charm.
Trump is the only candidate who is supportive of Christians (and as I said earlier he is not a saint). His efforts against ISIS have helped to slow down Christian persecution in that area. Furthermore his protective stance towards immigration is done to ensure our safety. Furthermore many of your alternate candidates throw ridiculous labels on us that I’m not going to retype because you know what they are already. The family structure that has built this country (honest, God fearing middle class people) is now being called “privileged” and seen as antiquated. among your liberals.
Pete Buttigieg is openly Christian. Joe Biden speaks about "restoring the soul of our nation." It is simply false to claim Trump is the only candidate supportive of Christians.
And his dumpsterfire with Iran caused Iraq to want American forces removed from the country - which would weaken the fight.
I'm sure that's what dear leader tells you, but that's nonsense. Further, most of this hispanics seeking asylum, who your leader calls rapists and murderers and whose kids your leader keeps in concentration camps, are devout Christians.
Not everyone who votes for Trump is a racist, white nationalist, "proud boy," or neo-nazi. That is unfair.
All racists, white nationalists, "proud boys," and neo-nazis vote for Trump though.
It doesn't help that the president himself goes 0-3 in your metric.
Your take is bullshit though. No one serious calls two-parent households antiquated or rallies against middle class religious white people. All Liberals do is point out that isn't the reality for many Americans.
I think that there are relatively few high political interaction Biden or Bernie supporters
-Most people who tilt Bernie but do research would likely prefer Warren. She's got concrete plans to enact what she wants. Love them or hate them they aren't just Bernie's pie in the sky ideas.
-Moderates are more likely to support Buttigieg (yes I need to double-check the spelling for that every time) Bloomberg, Booker or Klobuchar. They have more concrete policy proposals than Biden.
I think Biden and Bernie are the compromise candidates that nobody wants, but everybody is resigned to if their candidate doesn't catch lightning in a bottle.
I would caution against using your own personal thoughts on what will happen as gospel. I agree with your logic 100%, but reality seems to be breaking differently.
You say that (and I certainly would have believed that too) but if anything it seems that Bernie's hold on the progressive movement is tightening and Warren is slipping in the polls. Unfortunate in my opinion, as I'd much rather a competent and intelligent person whom I disagree with, in Warren, than a cranky old socialist with skeletons in his closet.
Booker is already gone. He'll be high on the VP list, but he dropped out. Bloomberg is a weird one, and seems to be surging a bit thanks to the amount of money he's put into it, but not being in the debates hurts him. Klobuchar doesn't have the personality and is struggling in Iowa, which should be her bread and butter.
Buttigieg is a great choice for the center left, and I personally am not surprised by him being one of the front runners, but his lack of experience in Washington is a negative. Plus, African Americans don't support him whatsoever (his being gay is undoubtedly a part of that that no one discusses, but also his being young and unknown).
Biden has so much black support that he almost single-handedly eliminated all of the African Americans running. He's still the front runner.
If coding skills were really that easy to learn, I think the jobs would have been filled up by now.. Yet even though these jobs approach six figures after only a few years of experience (or even entry level) there are still thousands of openings. There's a reason why. Not everyone has the skillset to become a coder. The principles of comparative advantage apply to society as a whole. Some people will be better suited for coding and others for more physical jobs/manufacturing type work. Ask a coder to do the type of work a miner does and I guarantee you that coder would not be able to do it. That's one of of my concerns with this idea of "global efficiency". Unless we have countries full of people with a homogeneous skill set there are going to be plenty of losers. I think in the best interest of the people its better to cut back on efficiency and give low skilled workers something to do. There's more than just money here. Whole subcultures of the U.S. are going to crumble soon if automation is not dealt with. I highly doubt Yang has gone outside his Asian home and actually gone to the rural communities and interacted with people. His argument may be "logical" but life isn't just numbers.
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