Who do you think won the VP debate and why?

I think we can all agree that this was infinitely better than the first Presidential debate. Both participants were more well-spoken than their Presidential pairings and had better responses to the questions asked of them.

For me Pence won it, I was a big fan of his calm and collected demeanor presenting as an exact opposite to Trump's personality. Kind of made me wish the ticket was flipped, I think way more people would be respectful of Pence. In my opinion he controlled the pacing of the debate the way it should be done, going over time just slightly and interjecting with points/questions rarely but effectively rather than constantly interjecting and chattering nonstop like an angry monkey.

Kamala was more alive than Biden so I guess that's sort of a win? I thought it was pretty lame that she's still dragging the "Trump won't disavow white supremacy" narrative. It takes 2 seconds to find 19 separate occasions of him doing just that and the Proud Boys are not even remotely white supremacist. She just outright lied on the fracking point, CNN literally quoted her saying "There's no question I'm in favor of banning fracking" just last year in a town hall. Shying away from the SCOTUS packing question with a clumsy misdirect also didn't do the Democrat's any favors. I feel like her personality just came across condescending with the tone of her "I won't be lectured" and "Excuse me I'm speaking" retorts.

Trump disavows white supremacy 19 times

Biden and Kamala saying they're anti-fracking

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Comments (105)

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  • NA in IB-M&A
Oct 8, 2020 - 9:08am

I think Pence was the clear winner here. I particularly enjoyed his closing statement where he emphasized that the news does not depict reality, and that he is hopeful people can unite in the future to create a better country. I was disappointed when Harris used that question to shoehorn Joe Biden's candidacy in one last time, where Pence largely left Trump out of his statement.

Oct 8, 2020 - 9:11am

Including that clip here, because I think you're spot on. I feel like both candidate's answers painted a pretty clear picture of each party's stance on partisan division.

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Oct 8, 2020 - 11:30am

Pence wouldn't make it through a GOP primary, either when the Republican party was normal or in its new populist grievance form. He has less charisma than mayonnaise and like most people in the Trump orbit, he is not an A player. 

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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Oct 8, 2020 - 11:28am

I think Pence was the clear winner here. I particularly enjoyed his closing statement where he emphasized that the news does not depict reality, and that he is hopeful people can unite in the future to create a better country. 

Unity? He is on the ticket with a man who calls my city a "shithole", openly ignores and criticizes "blue states" (imagine the flack a Dem would take if they openly mocked rural red America the way that the GOP hates cities), and thinks I am "human scum" for being a former Republican that now criticizes the GOP. Fuck him.

Pence has perfected the politician act to tell you what you want to hear, while knifing you in the back. Case in point, both he and Trump have now dodged the Roe v Wade question. That's been Pence's hallmark issue his entire political career! Of course he wants a total and complete ban on abortion in Indiana - have the balls to say it and let the American people decide. At least Dems don't shy away from claiming they're pro-choice (and yes, Kamala dodged a bunch of questions as well).

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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Oct 8, 2020 - 11:33am

This has nothing to do with who is the better debater. These are all reasons you support / don't support Pence and the GOP. 

Array
Oct 8, 2020 - 11:59am

Democrats do openly mock rural America so I'm not sure where you're going with this. Depending on which city you're talking about (because I've lived in several of the major ones) Trump's right to call parts of several of them shitholes. Would be interested where you're pulling the "human scum" quote from because if it's from him on the campaign trail then I'd say that's fair game with how many times Democrats regularly call all Trump supporters nazis, facists, racists, misogynists, bigots, white supremacists, etc.

It's not dodging for Roe vs Wade because that would be a question for the justices to rule on, not the President or VP. ACB, while clearly Catholic and pro-life, is a staunch believer in stare decisis meaning she is rarely in favor of trying to overturn prior established court precedent. She has gone on record with the following: "I don't think the core case, Roe's core holding that women have a right to an abortion, I don't think that would change," she said in a talk at Jacksonville University, per NPR. "But I think the question of whether people can get very late-term abortions, you know, how many restrictions can be put on clinics, I think that will change." Sounds to me like she'd at worst be in favor of a compromise, which in a bipartisan government is the best you can hope for.

Array

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:03pm

PrivateTechquity

It's not dodging for Roe vs Wade because that would be a question for the justices to rule on, not the President or VP. ACB, while clearly Catholic and pro-life, is a staunch believer in stare decisis meaning she is rarely in favor of trying to overturn prior established court precedent. She has gone on record with the following: "I don't think the core case, Roe's core holding that women have a right to an abortion, I don't think that would change," she said in a talk at Jacksonville University, per NPR. "But I think the question of whether people can get very late-term abortions, you know, how many restrictions can be put on clinics, I think that will change." Sounds to me like she'd at worst be in favor of a compromise, which in a bipartisan government is the best you can hope for.

C'mon man, this is disingenuous. She signed a 2013 letter calling for the overturn of Roe v Wade. GOP Senators are on record saying the Roe v Wade question will be a litmus test in order for them to confirm her nomination. Mike Pence has railed against abortion his entire career. This is the holy grail of the conservative judiciary - of course they're going to move to overturn it!

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:33pm

I didn't know about that letter honestly, so I can see how her personally expressed opinion is in clear conflict of her stated preference and historical ruling style. I still think I would put more weight with her more recent statement that the base right to an abortion would stand, and what would change is the restrictions with relation to clinics and dealing with late-term abortions. The entire argument of when it is or isn't appropriate to terminate a pregnancy is completely circular and will always be a point of contention between liberals and conservatives.

To be honest from my POV I could not care less whether RvW stands or is overturned because it wouldn't mean abortions are banned nationwide, it would just fall to the states which is my preference for most regulation. NY, IL, CA, and all the other liberal majority states would be allowed keep their abortion rights and fine tune them to their heart's content, and states where there's a conservative majority would be allowed to decide the opposite for themselves. I've never really seen it as a Federal-intervention worthy issue.

Array

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:12pm

PrivateTechquity

Democrats do openly mock rural America so I'm not sure where you're going with this. Depending on which city you're talking about (because I've lived in several of the major ones) Trump's right to call parts of several of them shitholes. Would be interested where you're pulling the "human scum" quote from because if it's from him on the campaign trail then I'd say that's fair game with how many times Democrats regularly call all Trump supporters nazis, facists, racists, misogynists, bigots, white supremacists, etc.

"The President of the United States is right to call some American cities shitholes"

"It's okay that the President called U.S. citizens "human scum" because they were mean to him" (this was in October 2019 by the way) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/23/donald-trump-de…

I think we're done here, buddy. You're in the bag for the Republican Party and this is a waste of my time.

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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Oct 8, 2020 - 12:33pm

Alt-Ctr-Left

PrivateTechquity

Democrats do openly mock rural America so I'm not sure where you're going with this. Depending on which city you're talking about (because I've lived in several of the major ones) Trump's right to call parts of several of them shitholes. Would be interested where you're pulling the "human scum" quote from because if it's from him on the campaign trail then I'd say that's fair game with how many times Democrats regularly call all Trump supporters nazis, facists, racists, misogynists, bigots, white supremacists, etc.

"The President of the United States is right to call some American cities shitholes"

"It's okay that the President called U.S. citizens "human scum" because they were mean to him" (this was in October 2019 by the way) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/23/donald-trump-de…

I think we're done here, buddy. You're in the bag for the Republican Party and this is a waste of my time.

Wah wah Orange man said something mean. I've said plenty of times that I disagree with personality and speaking methods. Just because I don't like the way he expresses his opinions doesn't automatically make them wrong. Cities with rapidly climbing crime rates and massive homelessness problems they refuse to address are objectively shitholes.

The scum comment again seems fair. Nazi, facist, racist, misogynist, white supremacist are all fine to be hurled at him but he can't hurl scum back? Laughable. Especially if it's with regard to the impeachment BS, which was entirely fabricated from the get-go and was still dragged through a massive media circus despite being dead-on-entry. Same as the Russia-hoax, which will now be coming to roost with the release of the declassification of the Brennan Notes.

Array

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

PrivateTechquity

The scum comment again seems fair. Nazi, facist, racist, misogynist, white supremacist are all fine to be hurled at him but he can't hurl scum back? Laughable. 

Did you ever consider that maybe The President of the United States should be held to a higher standard?  

Array
Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

I have literally said time and again that I disagree with how Trump talks and dislike his personality. Yes, I believe the President should be held to a higher standard. But this guy pretty much defies all standards as his calling card and has been more viciously attacked by the media than any other President (at least in my memory, which is admittedly not the longest). If constantly crying about the mean things he says is still your main point of contention, you're a thin-skinned pearl-clutching wuss because he's been saying them since before he was President too.

I believe our media and politicians in general should be held to a higher standard but they're not. Across the board they get to tell blatant lies, omit facts for their narratives without being challenged, and obfuscate with impunity. That's the fault of Americans for letting it happen. Some extra rudeness on top of all that should not be hard to swallow, and I'll gladly take the mean dude who doesn't start foreign armed conflicts vs the "well-spoken" politician that's chomping at the bit to get us into new wars and sell out our industries to foreigners with deals like the TPP.

Array

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

I'm still amazed that people still call the Russia investigation a hoax when multiple Trump confidantes and senior members of his campaign team ended up in jail. Hell, Mueller even said that if he thought Trump was innocent, he would come out and say it...but he didn't. The only reason Trump walked away scot-free was because Mueller followed DOJ policy that you can't indict a sitting president. He even chided AG Barr for misleading the public by coming out and saying there was nothing to see and Mueller said Trump was innocent.

Also can't take anyone who says impeachment was dead-on-entry seriously. There was tons of evidence that Trump was trying to solicit foreign intervention to help his re-election campaign. Literally the only reason Trump walked away from that was because the Republican Senate rallied behind him. 

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

Alright, so I don't think anyone can take you seriously when you clearly haven't read the information surrounding the Steele dossier or the Brennan notes. Every single person related to Trump that was brought in was either arrested on plea deals that to this day prove no direct evidence of collusion or matters completely separate from the campaign. The fact that the Mueller team destroyed a bunch of cellphones and other collected evidence after it was subpoena'd is also cause for alarm. AG Barr didn't mislead the public because there was in fact nothing of substance in that entire report otherwise it would have been actionable, and it clearly wasn't.

And literally the only reason impeachment moved forward in the first place was because Pelosi as Speaker pushed for the Democrat-controlled House to start it. So no shit it got shot down in the Republican-controlled Senate, and the fact that it was a Republican-controlled Senate means that it was in fact dead-on-entry. It was yet another partisan effort to remove Trump from power after the Russia-gate scandal fell flat on its face with 0 evidence of collusion. Meanwhile there's now an active investigation going on into Biden due to his son receiving a direct wire transfer of over $3M from the wife of the former Mayor of Moscow.

It's hilarious how you people keep spouting about how Trump's the one that's not going to accept the result of an election when you've actively tried for every single one of the last 3 years to get him removed from office after a certified election. Each time with completely baseless scandals that were dragged through the media for months on end which have each time turned out to be total duds. Pence was right on target with that during the debate.

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Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

I am amazed that any sane, rational person could look at the mountain of evidence that was collected in the Mueller investigation and the number of close Trump confidantes that have been thrown in jail and claim it's a nothing burger. Mueller came out and basically said he didn't believe the President was innocent, but he deferred to the Senate to impeach and convict Trump due to his belief he should follow DOJ policies of not indicting a sitting president. Obviously the R-held Senate wouldn't convict. Literally the only reason Trump wasn't brought down on in the Mueller and Ukraine investigations was because the R-held Senate put country over party and decided to protect Trump. Any other President with that much evidence against them gets taken down in a hurry, but Rs know Trump is a useful tool to advance their policy agenda. Trumpeters really are living in an alternate reality. The only thing that's gonna snap you back to reality is your orange messiah getting his ass kicked in the election.

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

Trump is far from a messiah, but he's better than any President in recent memory purely going off the fact he's managed to establish multiple landmark peace deals, taken a stance against China, and is the first President in nearly 40 years to not toss American soldiers into a meat grinder starting a new war to feed the military industrial complex. If the cost for those things is an egotistical manchild dominating the airwaves with his need to be the center of attention I'll take it again in a heartbeat. I'm sure it must be aggravating for you establishment bootlickers to not see the US bombing the piss out of third world villages fighting proxy wars, but knowing how our parties operate that time will probably come again so don't fret. We'll see how the vote pans out soon enough.

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Oct 8, 2020 - 9:16am

Pence 100%.

It was a very tight debate for the first 30 minutes with slight advantage for Pence. But then Kamala had some sort of meltdown. Pence mostly dominated after.

More on the why:

1) Pence knew when to use facts and logic and when to use soundbites. Kamala did not.

2) Pence projected a very presidential image that the real POTUS could not. Kamala came off as a whiny and passive-aggressive.

3) Pence clearly read the "flow" of the debate. Kamala sounded a little tone deaf.

4) Pence knew exactly why he was there - to win back independents Trump lost in the Presidential debate. Kamala seemed conflicted btw trying to energize young voters and the "woke" crowd vs. appealing to independents.

Oct 8, 2020 - 9:19am

She was a DA so she can definitely tell when the heat is on and the jury is turning against her. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you support), she also lacks the self-control to pilot herself out of those gullies and instead turns to weak emotional appeals that lack substance. That might work in CA, but not the entire country.

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Oct 8, 2020 - 9:32am

I'd call them catch phrases and soundbites rather than weak emotional appeals.

I was very disappointed because Kamala showed the aggression of a former DA but not the logic of one. I doubt that she was that terrible of a DA. My hypothesis is that years of being a politician diluted her debating skills.

But more concerning issue is that national politics seems to be heading that way where debating skills aren't important but creating soundbites are. Republicans started that with Christian conservatives and gun owners back in the days. Democrats picked it up and used to "energize" the woke. And now everyone is doing it.

  • Prospect in IB - Ind
Oct 8, 2020 - 12:30pm

Milton Friedchickenman

Pence 100%.

It was a very tight debate for the first 30 minutes with slight advantage for Pence. But then Kamala had some sort of meltdown. Pence mostly dominated after.

More on the why:

1) Pence knew when to use facts and logic and when to use soundbites. Kamala did not.

2) Pence projected a very presidential image that the real POTUS could not. Kamala came off as a whiny and passive-aggressive.

3) Pence clearly read the "flow" of the debate. Kamala sounded a little tone deaf.

4) Pence knew exactly why he was there - to win back independents Trump lost in the Presidential debate. Kamala seemed conflicted btw trying to energize young voters and the "woke" crowd vs. appealing to independents.

OP's stance: Pence won because of how he said things and how pleasant it sounds like rather than what was actually said. Gets 7 SB. I guess this encapsulates American politics in a nutshell.

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:33pm

Hmmm? 

Pence won the debate because he was able to achieve his goal of filling in the gaps of what Trump lacks. It wasn't sure what Kamala was trying to achieve. 

Also, she couldn't properly rebut many of Pence's points. Lot of his evidences were cherrypicked so Kamala could have easily pointed them out and turn it around Pence. Yet she failed (or she deliberateltnchose not to) to do so on many occasions. And Pence made the kill with his whole "You're entitled to your opinions but not the facts" rhetoric.

In any debate, that's not a good thing.

Oct 8, 2020 - 9:23am

I think it was pretty much a draw. Pence was better with staying on message and Harris was better at getting her points across, seeming approachable, and you know...not being utterly full of shit. Republicans aren't going to like Harris and Democrats aren't going to like Pence. 

More importantly, no one was thinking they were going to vote for one candidate a few weeks ago and a different candidate this morning because of a VP debate that was more or less eventless other than a fly sitting on Pence's head. 

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Oct 8, 2020 - 9:29am

I disagree. I think this debate was potentially indicative of the future POTUS, given the age and health of the two current candidates, and that may hold significant weight with some voters. As a somewhat casual voter who did not pay much attention to US politics prior to the start of the presidential campaign, this was the first time I saw both Harris and Pence debate. I thought both were strong at times, but I was impressed overall by Pence's collected demeanor, and bipartisan closing statement. This solid performance may resonate with any on-the-fence voters who are left.  

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

Who tf is even on the fence? I'd bet my left nut not a single person changed their view after last night. Both lied and gave non-answers throughout the debate (Pence dodged way more - undeniable). Totally a non-event that'll be clouded with metaphors about the fly on Pence's head. And susan page was absolute dogshit.

Oct 8, 2020 - 9:59am

I disagree. Pence was much more steady and clear with his points and seemed more approachable than he ever has before. And while Democrats usually sound more compassionate and empathetic, I'd say last night's debate was a draw in that category (even if Pence is full of shit).

Harris was condescending (defining debt and bounty, "don't lecture me" when Pence was not in any way lecturing). Pence is unexciting and I doubt many people would want to grab a beer with the guy, but who would want to go up and chat with Kamala?  

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:01pm

It's easy for him to calmly deliver his spiels when he is lying through his teeth. they really need onscreen real-time fact-checking because a lot of the more impressionable mouth breathing viewers aren't going to go and check Politico the next day. 
 

I agree with others that I don't think it was her words that people found condescending but the fact that a non-demure woman was saying them. Asking Pence (who has always had a knack for interrupting) to let her speak is not combative or overemotional ffs. 

Oct 8, 2020 - 11:12am

Well, I'm not a hack and I'm fully capable of being objective. I call it like I see it, and I think it was more or less a draw. Neither was fantastic, neither was utterly embarrassing, and both got their points across. 

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

I didn't have a problem with any of them. What specifically bothered you? 

Commercial Real Estate Developer

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

CRE

I think it was pretty much a draw. Pence was better with staying on message and Harris was better at getting her points across, seeming approachable, and you know...not being utterly full of shit. Republicans aren't going to like Harris and Democrats aren't going to like Pence. 

More importantly, no one was thinking they were going to vote for one candidate a few weeks ago and a different candidate this morning because of a VP debate that was more or less eventless other than a fly sitting on Pence's head. 

This is all the needs to be said.  Nothing surprising happened, both hit all their rehearsed talking points (some more honest than others), no minds will be changed, no undecided voters will be swayed.  I love how so many are claiming this to be a Pence victory because he was able to string together coherent sentences without throwing a temper tantrum every 5 minutes.

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Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

Your are right, there was a very low standard for Pence

http://www.series65examtutor.com
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 8, 2020 - 9:26am

I think most of us are guilty of very unconscious misogyny in that we hold women candidates (across the board, from Hilary/Kamala to Palin to whoever) to a higher standard of rationality/unemotionality when they're debating. Kamala was more condescending than Pence, but he had his moments as well ("Just Not True", shaking head as well) and the gap wasn't thaaat big, but that's all that's focused on with Kamala. I have no perspective on who won, & I'm not American and don't really care, this kind of thing happens in my country too 

Oct 8, 2020 - 9:34am

I don't think your first point is fair, there are plenty of women who are able to be forceful and show emotion without coming across as irrational or condescending. Look at Tulsi Gabbard, she's honestly a perfect example of what how a stateswoman carries herself in my opinion. As much as I dislike her, Hilary Clinton also had plenty of moments where she presented as a strong female candidate. She's gone off the rails since she lost, but when she was secretary of state her public speaking was leaps and bounds ahead of almost anything you'll find from the likes of Kamala Harris or Sarah Palin.

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Oct 8, 2020 - 9:53am

Both dodged questions all night, pence more so than Harris but pence did a better job of (hypocritically) calling the other person out for dodging the question 

pence also interrupted Harris pretty much non-stop, so I'm not sure why Harris is getting the hate for 'getting an attitude' and standing up for herself. 

With that said, I suppose Pence "won".. in the sense that, he wasn't a complete dumpster fire like Trump 

Oct 8, 2020 - 9:58am

UCLA2k13

pence also interrupted Harris pretty much non-stop, so I'm not sure why Harris is getting the hate for 'getting an attitude' and standing up for herself. 

Eh. I'd say most people know exactly why. 

Commercial Real Estate Developer

Oct 8, 2020 - 10:43am

The victim complex liberals create for themselves and society is quite interesting to witness. 

Like objectively speaking Harris visibly reacts in an angry manner to being challenged, it was evident when Tulsi Gabbard challenged her record in the dem debates and it was evident last night. 
 

But your victim complex dictates that people must be reacting to her identity, and anyone pointing out her negative reactions are racist or misogynistic. 
 

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Funniest
Oct 8, 2020 - 11:14am

Truly comical levels of projection and straw man arguing here. 

We're back, baby

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

You are right in that people are not comfortable when a woman (black woman)  is assertive.  

http://www.series65examtutor.com
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  • VP in IB - Ind
Oct 8, 2020 - 10:01am

Honestly am surprised that this site has unanimously decided on Pence. Wonder if that would have been different if Doug was the one providing his wife's answers instead. I'm male, if that matters and which sadly needs my saying

Oct 8, 2020 - 10:06am

Honestly am surprised that this site has unanimously decided on Pence. 

You shouldn't be. This site leans right, and after Trump's dumpster fire of a performance, WSO is hungry to celebrate a functional Republican performance. 

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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  • VP in IB - Ind
Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

One can tilt right and still acknowledge that the Trump administration is corrupt and unfit for leading this country - e.g. George Conway/the Lincoln Project, good ol Mitt, etc. just like how a lot of Dems roll their eyes at Bernie and AOC

A bipartisan structure will always be needed imo but how anyone can support that circus, I don't know 

Oct 8, 2020 - 10:22am

i expected much better from Kamala and was disappointed in her performance....not "Presidential"...too easily triggered emotionally

on the flip side, Pence refused to answer a single question asked of him and lied thru his teeth the entire night....also not "Presidential"

they both lost

  • Associate 2 in IB - Ind
Oct 8, 2020 - 10:55am

Like how Kamala didn't answer what their Covid plan was, if they'll pack the court, didn't respond to her prosecution of black people, didn't respond to their constant flip flop on the GND, and went on some incoherent tangent about her family tree that wasn't even relevant?

Oct 8, 2020 - 10:53am

Pence interrupted and went over time pretty often. Also white faced lies around COVID, Trump loving all American people, international relations, environment, healthcare - tbh I felt bad for Harris cause 60 seconds isn't enough time to rebuttal all the lies at once. 

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Oct 8, 2020 - 11:02am

These debates tend to be an eye of the beholder kind of thing, so I've never believed the question of who "won"...there's no scorecard.

Having said that I disagree that Pence "won".  His ticket is behind in the polls and this month has been a disaster for them.  Pence needed to do better than OK, and the talk is more about his pink eye and the fly.  His constant interruptions of Harris likely didn't score points with women.  The GOP ticket is losing seniors and women. 

So while the debate itself was pretty close, Pence didn't help his ticket.  Harris just needed to break even, and she did that.

Controversial
Oct 8, 2020 - 11:10am

Alright, "excuse me I'm speaking" is "condescending? LOL why is this country like this. Pence took the rules and threw them completely out of the window. TBH, I feel bad for Pence's wife, because he treated both those women like his own doormat. I didn't know Pence had some fuckboy in him, but the guy straight trolled his way through the entire debate. I kept wondering why there isn't automatic disqualification when someone completely ignores the rules constantly. Kamala won for me just on this technicality. 

Oct 8, 2020 - 11:18am

What's the deal with Pence and his wife? I missed the very beginning of the debate and am not all that familiar with his background so I'm not sure if that has something to do with it.

I’m a fun guy. Obviously I love the game of basketball. I mean there’s more questions you have to ask me in order for me to tell you about myself. I'm not just gonna give you a whole spill... I mean, I don't even know where you're sitting at

Oct 8, 2020 - 11:21am

Pence refers to his wife as "Mother" and refuses to be alone in a room with another woman because of temptation or something. 

They're utter religious weirdos, but alas, so are many Americans. 

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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Oct 8, 2020 - 11:36am

I think Pence won the debate by a bit, but to be honest I was expecting him to win by a lot. I think they were pretty equal for the most part in the points they made, or at least in trying to make their views sound good. I'd have to knock Pence for having long answers and interrupting, and give him props for being calm and essentially providing a cool, collected face to the Trump presidency (not an easy task). I would knock Kamala for providing a non-answer to the Supreme Court packing answer (this might be me, but I care about this issue quite a bit), and give her props for shedding the radical left image that Trump and Pence are trying to give the Biden campaign. VP candidate Kamala definitely seems better than DNC candidate Kamala in that regard, at least in my view. Lastly, I thought that Pence had a much better final statement.

Also OP, I think that the issue with the Proud Boys statement is that it's such an easy question, pretty much a lay up, but Trump missed it. All he had to say was that he does not support the Proud Boys' message. He has a habit of missing easy questions, like how he talked about John Lewis not attending his inauguration when asked if he thought John Lewis was a hero in the Axios interview. Although it's a bit unfair, these easy misses definitely give a bad impression to a lot of people, and there isn't really a good excuse for giving such bad answers in the moment regardless of what he has said in the past.

I’m a fun guy. Obviously I love the game of basketball. I mean there’s more questions you have to ask me in order for me to tell you about myself. I'm not just gonna give you a whole spill... I mean, I don't even know where you're sitting at

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:32pm

Debates are, quite literally, not lectures. 

Try again. 

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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Oct 8, 2020 - 12:33pm

It wasn't an overt disaster for both sides, yet I don't think it's the miracle that Trump needed. Pence sounded presentable and collected, a far cry from the chaos Trump brings to the stage. But at the same time, he was just wrong in some statements. There were some moments like the Obama pandemic team or the part where he took credit for cleaner air than in the past where his answers were just categorically wrong. I don't think Kamala killed it or was particularly bad, I just don't think she had a performance that you'd call a victory.

But I have a feeling there might be a small chance this debate pushes more suburban women towards Biden. Which would just be a disaster.

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

I think that Pence won but I agree thay it wasn't a miracle that Trump needs. It would.maybe move the polls by 1% but otherwise everything else would be the same.

For one, I think Pence won because he got away woth his cherry picking. It was completely on Kamala for failing to point out the real wholistic facts on why the air being clean has nothing to do with Trump and how the Swine flu response was well handled because it killed much less people and the economy wasn't shut down. Such low hanging fruits that Kamala should've made clear. Yet she relied on soundbites....

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

The swine flu was not well handled at all, it was just a vastly less lethal disease. If they had treated Covid like the swine flu we would have significantly more deaths than we currently do just going off the the current Covid death rate relative to the sheer # of infections. With you on the clean air piece being mostly fluff, although Pence was also correct that the US has made more strides lowering overall emissions with the shift to natural gas than many of the countries that actually signed onto the Paris Climate Accords. Climate stuff is kind of a wash imo because of how stupidly politicized it's become, humans clearly contribute to climate change but the primary drivers are developing nations and even if it were possible to stop using fossil fuels altogether for developed nations it would have a negligible impact over the changes set to happen over the next ~100 years. I'd personally prefer to see more subsidies going towards renewables over fossil fuels in order to incentivize more of a shift in innovation so we can attack it on the front end, but that's another debate for another time.

Array

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

A few reactions to the debate:

  • Biden won the Presidential debate (or more accurately, Trump went out of his way to lose the first debate).  Pence won the second debate hands down.
  • The VP debate was actually very important this year, because the Democrats have been positioning Biden as more of a front man and Kamala Harris as the real candidate.  Kamala needed to come out looking like someone who could take the top job, and instead she just solidified the reasons why she didn't make it through the initial rounds of the primaries.
  • Some people are saying they wish it was Pence at the top of the ticket instead of Trump.  This sounds nice, but it would not work as well as you might think.  Trump may be abrasive and that debate was indeed a disaster, but when it comes to policy, Trump knows how to get things done and that's what's important.  I doubt Pence would have pushed through half the things Trump has.  More importantly, Trump is one of the few people that can take the kind of heat to which anyone that challenges the Establishment will be subject.  I have never seen so many attacks on one man in such a short time.  Doubtful that Pence would be able to deal with that without being broken.
  • I really liked how Pence went on offense a bit regarding the environment.  Like working class jobs, this is a traditionally strong Democrat issue that I think is ripe for the Republicans to pick off.  Democrats generally support and kowtow to China, the world's worst polluter of air, land, and water by orders of magnitude, Democrats have let their cities turn into more or less open landfills, and every year out here in California Dems let half the state burn down.  Pence highlighting some of the Trump admin's environmental efforts was a good first step in positioning Republicans as better stewards of the environment.   
  • 1
Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

Literally everyone got a tax cut. He's absolutely challenging the establishment seeing as how he's managed to be the only President in nearly 40 years to not start a new war despite the continued bipartisan push and support for foreign armed conflicts. 

Array

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

This is a completely vote for the jersey topic.  All conservatives are going to think Pence won while all liberals ( the 3 of them on here) will think Harris won.

I think they both performed well.  I have no idea how truthful either one of them was, as they all probably stretch the truth.  I do not trust Pence at all and he is probably one of those people who could actually contract COVID by kissing the ass of an infected person.  He has to defend the indefensible.  He somehow had to spin how the US response was admirable when it has been a total disaster from the beginning.  Then he had to somehow spin the gathering for the justice into something normal.  I will paraphrase his comments:, Do As We Say And Not As We Do.  This guy is the head of the corona virus task force!   

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Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

I don't see how a single person can like Kamala Harris. And this coming from someone who doesn't like either candidate and is in the middle.

She seems completely pompous and entitled. Especially her body language and facial expressions. Zero racial or the fact she's a woman. Just simply can not stand her.

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

The constant fake smiling and laughing is what gets me. It's literally Hilary 2.0, coupled with a an even worse background in terms of policy support and unethical law enforcement practices. Whoever coaches her on body language for public speaking needs to be fired, and if it's her natural way of presenting then she needs to hire someone to coach her to do the opposite.

Array

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

It was close but I think Kamala came out slightly ahead because Pence dodged questions like a mofo and went past his allotted time over and over again, making it clear to even the casual politics followers that I was watching the debate with that he had basically pre-planned all of his talking points and answers. I don't think this debate moves the needle very much either way, especially after the entertaining brawl that was the first Biden-Trump debate.

Oct 8, 2020 - 12:34pm

First of all, hilarious that you hunted down two of my comments in separate threads to reply directly to in addition to this in less than 5 minutes. Second, acting like Pence went over his time somehow significantly is utter nonsense when Kamala did the exact same thing. CNN literally kept time and showed the difference in their speaking time was 3 seconds. Maybe you just had a hard time telling since Pence is actually measured in his speech and takes his time controlling the pacing of a discussion rather than coming across rushed and unprepared shooting for emotional one-liners like Kamala. And lastly, as for going into a debate with all his talking points in mind and answers to specific types of questions ready to go is a bad thing... That's called being prepared...? It's literally the point of debate preparation. How in the world are you a lawyer and not know this?

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