Who has heard about these teams? Citi TTS, Deutsche GTS, JPM T&SS, BAML GTS --> help a friend out

Hey everyone,

Long time WSO member who is looking for some answers regarding some of these teams I mentioned in the title. I have a friend who told me that he wants to work within these types of teams, as opposed to being in IB. This is mostly due to work-life balance. I was understanding, but shocked at the same time as he goes to a target and has a strong profile that would land him a job in IB if he wanted it.

After discussing with him and doing some research, I see that a great career can come from these positions and it may even sway me from going to IB. From the info that I compiled and discussions from people in the field, these positions are FO, however its not as clear cut as traditional IB. Some of the teams within these divisions have BO/MO elements such as risk and ops, however are still classified as FO, so the skills aren't transferable to IB/CB.

Now to get into the nitty gritty, these roles focus prominently on global transaction banking, meaning trade financing and treasury and cash liquidity management, as well as product sales, etc. to major F500 companies. There are elements of corporate banking and sales, however it is very much a niche of its own. Please note that these teams aren't the same as pure treasury or operations or market risk, etc. that are found exclusively in MO/BO, as these teams are selling/pitching services and products to clients.

Main Players
The main players appear to be Citi (their TTS group is their main revenue driver and is combined with IB & CB to form their institutional clients group). Their main competition is JPM, BAML, DB and other banks like HSBC. After doing some research, it appears that most banks have these teams, albeit to different degrees. Citi obviously dominates the market, thus have a strong team, while banks like UBS and Nomura (examples) may only dabble in it.

Compensation
The general conclusion is that base salary is the same as IB/CB in each respective bank. The sign-on bonuses are slightly lower and the year-end bonuses are considerably lower than that of IB and even CB. A fair estimate would be something of an 80k base + 5k sign on + 15-20% bonus for a first year analyst. Obviously, they are not breaking the bank, but they are making a good living.

Hours
This varies depending on the team within your group, but the average hours are around 9 - 6, but peak times and strong deal flow could push it. You would be choosing this role for a strong work life balance.

Exit Ops
Here is where there is lots of ambiguity. A lot of these teams have been founded within the past couple years or augmented (looking at Citi as an example), therefore there isn't much historical data to see the exit ops of people within this field. After speaking with professionals, they mention that there opportunity for being a lifetime banker is there. Newer teams means more room for quick growth along with diversified product/service offerings meaning if a VP spot is open in another team, you can quickly lateral. Changing offices especially to international offices is also quite easy. This room for growth along with good hours and pay (wont be driving a porsche at 28 like IB, but maybe 35). They also said that for those who do leave the traditional exits are 1) MBA (strong placement to top schools from these roles), 2) lateral to corporate banking, 3) corporate finance/treasury at a F500

I'm not ready to dive into one of these teams for recruitment, but my friend definitely got the idea in my head and he is going to be gunning for them. Just in case I enter this field and realize I want IB afterall, who has heard of lateraling straight to IB. Is this possible despite not having a perfect job skillset that matches that of IB? Assuming you work at a top bank like Citi within their TTS team, is it possible to lateral straight to IB? It would be difficult to lateral to a bank like JPM or GS IB, but what about a lower BB/EB or MM firm?

I am fascinated by these teams, so if anyone has experience working or interning at a team like this or has a friend that works here, please share your advice and input. Most of my questions are regarding the exit opps and the "financial prestige" with these types of positions!

Thank you,
humble monkey

 

There is not much of finance involved in these roles. They are pretty much your credit card machine sales people for large corporations. It's still consider front office, because you're interacting with the treasurer and sometime CFOs for small companies to talk about treasury and etc. And, it is no where near IB, so don't even think about buyside exit opps. At best you land a role in a PE backed portfolio company doing FP&A.

 

Wow! That was well written out, but still incredibly harsh. PE and buy-side options are obviously out of play because of the lack of modelling, transaction experience found in IB, but what type of exits are available to get to IB? I know that these teams to CB is common, but what is the jump to IB like without getting an MBA or without doing TTS --> CB --> IB?

Working in a FO gig like Citi TTS still has pull and assuming the person has modelling and technical skills can still push their way to IB. My question is how far can a person go in a direct lateral. Could you do ... see below for example

Citi TTS --> GS IB? Citi TTS --> Citi IB? Citi TTS --> UBS IB? Citi TTS --> Jefferies IB? Citi TTS --> Baird IB? Citi TTS --> Keybanc IB?

I know for a fact jumping to firms like Keybanc would be quite easy coming from a BB (even if not IB), but how far does the lateral go? Could they reach an EB or have to settle for MM?

 

I dont think you truly understand what TTS is. I recommend looking up and doing additional research about what they do, this will help you during interviews for those roles. Second, there is no direct path to lateral into IB, because you won't be doing much modeling or if any modeling at all in these roles. You're a product specialist in treasury, therefore all the credit risk are modeled out by the credit team. You're there resolving transaction specific issues. No different if you went to the bank and ask about one of your credit card transaction, however you're doing it for a large corporation. Therefore, the transaction is more complex. Don't mistaken the word "transaction" as M&A or financing transaction. My advice is to go IB of possible. IB coverage > capital markets > corporate banking > commercial banking > credit roles. Made the mistake myself in the past.

 

I think you are giving Citi TTS a little too much credit, I wouldn't say there is a direct path to IB at any of those firms except MAYBE Keybanc. The name Citi carries weight yes, but IB laterals mostly come from other (lesser) IB firms. Keep in mind when people lateral then new bank they come to is expecting them to be a contributor from day 1, if they dont have an IB skillset it will be harder for them to help the team right away. On the rare occasion a really well performing analyst can do about a 2 year stink in Citi TTS and then try to internally transfer, but keep in mind that is rare.

 

thanks man, didnt mean to sound like an idiot. I just want to know if theres a chance at IB from these transaction teams. Im hoping a top team like Citi will have the name brand to land an MM or EB firm

 

These are not FO roles. They are essentially hybrid PWM/Consulting roles within the firm. Most of them are just Treasury Management with additional responsibility.

You also are way off base with comp. I know someone who held offers from BAML GTS and DB's equivalent. BAML GTS: 75-85K all-in, pre tax DB GTB: 80k all-in, pre tax Citi: Unknown JPM: Unknown

You are not exiting to BB/EB IB. MM is a reach as well. People in B4 TAS exit to IB way more than these guys do (which is not a lot, and the B4 guys are heading to spots at small boutiques or small MM like Cowen. Job is cool, but stop trying to sell yourself the Kool-Aid before your interviewers get their chance.

 

They are definitely FO roles and I know for a fact that JPM and Citi pay the same base as their IB and CB counterparts ... I also know they get a signing bonus and upwards of 20%. Maybe BAML and DB are behind , but Citi and JPM are the major players in the industry. I think their comp is reflected for that. Also the lateral to CB is easy so there’s that . Obviously it won’t be easy to lateral to IB , but to say it is near impossible is ridiculous.

 

Good luck then, kid. You don't know what you're talking about. Nobody in transaction banking is considered FO by anyone else in the FO.

Obviously it won't be easy to lateral to IB , but to say it is near impossible is ridiculous

Where did I say it would be near impossible? It is unlikely. Very unlikely.

Also, doing a double lateral would be a huge waste of time. GTB -> CB -> IB? You'd be starting as an A1 in most cases, A2 if you're lucky. Just kill it in GTB for 3-4 years and go do an MBA.

 

What is the total comp like at the more senior levels? Seems like they have great work life balance. 

Would it be like all in comp: 

Analyst - 90K 

Associate - 120K 

VP - 180K 

Director - 250K 

Managing Director - 400K

If so, this would be pretty cushy because it seems like they really only work 9 - 6 and take a 1 hour lunch break if they don't have any client calls/requests

 

Currently in the Citi TTS analyst program. Comp is 80k-85-90 for each analyst year. 2.5 year program. 10-20% performance based bonus. Hours are much better than IB, usually in the 50-60 per week range. I can't comment on the comp of other firms but biggest competitors are JPM, BoA, HSBC, WF. GS is even starting up a transaction banking practice this year due to very stable, easily forecastable revenue for the firm. Low volatility to the industry is great for job security especially in times like this with covid-19.

Exit ops are widely varied. I have seen several people network their way to IB and S&T roles at Citi or at other BBs from the Citi TTS role. But otherwise exit ops are really varied, not the typical PE/HF exits. Moreso to other cash management/trade finance/corporate/commercial banking roles, FP&A, or unrelated to finance entirely. Definitely opportunity to be a career banker. Transaction banking is attractive to me because it still feels like a high finance role with less of the pressure and demanding hours. On an hourly basis, pay is very close to that of IB/S&T. Happy to answer additional questions.

 

hey ! thanks for the reply and the information. I heard that after the analyst years, you make the jump to avp level. Do you know how long the AVP levels are before jumping to VP? do you have the comp for those levels? Do you work in the nyc office? Did you do a stint in SA or went direct FT? Do you know how many interns they take and the conversion rate?

Thanks

 

Yes, basically after 2.5 years you "apply" internally to AVP roles. Headcount is dependent from year to year so you'll see people really start to make their exit the summer before (promotions are for January of the finishing year. i.e. I began the program in summer 2019, will be up for AVP promotion Jan. 2022. So look elsewhere/evaluate availability of AVP roles starting summer 2021.

Comp I am not 100% sure, but ballpark AVP is 115-130, VP 130-160. Each has ballpark 10-30% bonus of base. AVP to VP is typically 3-4 years, but can be much faster depending on performance. i.e. my summer analyst manager made Director in 8 years, another director just made MD this past cycle in 10 years. Promotions can definintely be an opportunitistic/luck as well as political process, but I assume this is similar at any large bank.

I did SA from a target school for Citi TTS (dedicated schools are Duke, Georgetown, Villanova, Boston College, U Miami, Rutgers, Little Ivies making up 90% of analysts) Conversion rate is very very high, out of 25 analysts usually 22-23 get offers. There is a place for you, much more of your offer to lose. I really appreciated that atmosphere as a summer analyst.

Honestly I wish this role got better publicity from the WSO/Finance Meme world. It's not "sexy" but provides better hours and an alternative to "traditional" finance roles if that's not something you're as interested in like I am. It is 100% a front office role and is respected from seniro management as such due to the revenue/value proposition it brings to the firm. There's a reason Goldman is launching a transaction banking business this summer. Yes it's not as cool, but still is a "high finance/wall st. front office role" that is a good career. Especially in a time like covid-19 where bonuses are getting cut and job security is questionable, TTS is the best place to be due to the very high job security from a business line that has very low volatility due to forecastable revenue from providing services clients need no matter the economic environment we are in.

 

What is the total comp like at the more senior levels? Seems like they have great work life balance. 

Would it be like all in comp: 

Analyst - 90K 

Associate - 120K 

VP - 180K 

Director - 250K 

Managing Director - 400K

If so, this would be pretty cushy because it seems like they really only work 9 - 6 and take a 1 hour lunch break if they don't have any client calls/requests

 
Most Helpful

Some comments here are misinformed. Not surprising. Few people understand treasury management roles. Many of our corporate bankers don't even understand treasury products like supply chain finance (though to be fair, many of our sales people don't understand supply chain finance either).

Pros:

  • Better hours

  • Secure job (not cyclical like M&A; COVID-19 hasn't impact our business negatively, instead we've got more to do since businesses need cash management more than ever)

  • Less hierarchical than IB. Overall better culture and more responsibility for you on both the product development side and sales side. For many sales groups, first year analysts become the primary point of contact for clients in their first months on the job

  • Related to the above, less hierarchy means more exposure to senior execs. These senior execs talk to other senior execs at other parts of the firm (IB, corporate banking, S&T, research), making it easier than expected to lateral to these roles if you impress them. At my bank, some GTS analysts email the C-Suite regularly. Important: While some analysts in IB don't think GTS is FO, many senior folks in IB and other parts of the bank know how money GTS brings in and understand the FO experience you're getting there

  • Transferable product development skills for anything product development in other industries (especially tech)

Cons:

  • Lower bonus

  • No transferable modeling for PE jobs. You won't get modeling in the IB-sense. Modeling in GTS is typically projected P&L for new product launches or pricing for sales. The closest to IB modeling would be certain trade finance groups. One of our trade finance groups competes with DCM on live deals

  • No one knows what you do (can be pro, depending on how you sell it)

  • Even if you stick with this and make it your career, I doubt a GTS MD makes the bonuses the IB MD makes, unless they came over from S&T or corporate banking (very common)

  • A highly tech-focused role much of the time. If you're in product, you gotta be interested in that kind of product development work

Other common exits: tech (usually fintech, but software tech firms and startups generally too) and sales roles in other industries. The sales and relationship-building experience in particular (with both clients and internal parties) you get in GTS will be better than IB where you're just an Excel monkey.

But if you want to go to PE, go the IB route. That's where the transferable skills are. If you have the personality for IB and the aspirations for its exit opps, do yourself a favor and just do IB. Playing hopscotch from GTS -> CB -> IB -> PE is a waste of your time if you can do it from the get-go.

 

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