Who is smarter: Elliott or Apollo?
From reading about these two firms, it seems like they are somewhat similar and very outside the box.
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My dad is stronger than yours
Equally smart, equally ruthless.
Lately, Elliott has had consistently mediocre returns, underperforming the S&P. Prime example of how asset size dilutes alpha, even if they do baller things like seizing Argentine naval vessels.
Both leave a lot of blood in the water. Up to you to decide whether that's a good thing.
Yeah pretty hard to keep delivering the results they were originally known for at current scale. The reality too is that the founders & founding team are probably nowhere near as active or sweaty.
Where's the info that shows Elliott underperformed this year?
Well a pretty senior PM just left Elliott to join Apollo.
Is it because he thinks apollo are smarter guys or is it because Apollo thinks Elliott are smarter than them and need to step up and thus are paying more?
If you’re talking about the credit guy, he wasn’t that senior at Elliott.
Elliott is much cooler, but Apollo posts better returns as of late by a fair margin. I'll let you decide based on those metrics
Hard to argue with the point on Elliott. How often do you see an investment fund seizing a national navy ship?
Wdym navy ship?
Who gets hotter chicks? That's the important question.
Neither, have friends there.
FYI Apollo is a sweat shop and I have had many close friends burn out
is this PE or credit or both?
It's a misguided question to ask who is smarter. Apollo does pretty much only private markets investing across the capital structure while Elliott does the same thing but with the added element of public market investing and a highly publicized activist strategy. Both focus on very different things, especially if you look at it by group. Both firms have had home runs and both have had some stinkers. Both have brilliant folks working there but the general focus tends to be very different at both.
Agree with Bueller Banker, it is a bit misguided, but I get the context of your question -- CZR bk. Here's my take. I personally don't think Elliott is all that. Sure, they're tenacious in certain bk situations and they approach situations from a legal/activist angle, but they're really not all that. Now they just build multi bn $ positions in tech names that have traded down / have clear multiple gaps, and approach them saying "please sell yourself". Was it hard to spot fraudulent transfer in czr? No. They're big, and they're pretty smart, so I would say that makes them a "better" activist investor, but activism isn't all that to begin with.
Apollo, on the other hand, is bright imo. They're bright, creative, and just as (if not more) tenacious / aggressive as Elliott. Some of the craziest, most creative things I have seen in this business have been crafted by the folks @ APO. Brilliant in a few cases. The way these guys put together deals, think abt certain situations, and claw their way out of a portco bk is awesome. Can't say the same about other shops tbh. Have nothing but respect for these guys
Who would you say the other 2-3 are? Curious to hear your take
I take that back lol. I really do think they're among the sharpest investors in this business
"Elliott sounds like every large cap American activist" - me, an analyst at a large cap American activist.
"Some of the craziest, most creative things I have seen in this business have been crafted by the folks @ APO" - Are you able to share any examples?
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