There was an interesting topic we're kicking around in the office regarding startups. Assuming a generic person has a typical skillset coming from banking or consulting, who is more likely to start their own company, and who would operate it better?
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Consultants for sure. Bankers don't do anything at the junior levels
Neither. The people who are attracted to these fields tend to be those who like well defined paths.
The strokes are too broad on a question like this. You'd have to be more specific, like GS TMT vs McKinsey [insert top group], which is how I'm going to break this down. And at that level, both would have a great chance of being successful. It also depends on what point the person is transitioning to entrepreneur. I'll assume after 2 years.
Neither really gives you a skillset directly translatable to entrepreneurship, the only thing that does is actually being an entrepreneur. What you really need is a good idea, strong work ethic, selling ability, and the drive to succeed. Most young banking analysts and consultants have that work ethic/drive/selling ability. The good idea is more difficult. You can have a great idea, do a bad job implementing it, and go bust or have a terrible idea, implement it like a boss, and see some success.
To break it down simply, since this is probably what you're looking for:
Banker Pros: work ethic, drive, strong understanding of finance/accounting fundamentals, sales experience Banker Cons: specific skillset (finance), limited diversity of professional experiences, no operational experience
Consultant Pros: work ethic, drive, decent understanding of finance/accounting fundamentals, sales experience, strategy experience Consultant Cons: no operational experience, limited diversity of professional experiences (though very likely more broad than a banker's)
The hard skills you learn in either don't really mean shit. You don't need to be an excel genius, you just need to be able to plug in revenues vs expenses for at least the first couple of years. You don't have to understand the mechanics of a 10,000 person corporation, you really need to be able to work with people ranging from the janitor rocking a 76 IQ to the MIT grad with a Masters in CS.
Honestly, the consultant comes out better prepared for entrepreneurship solely because he'll likely be exposed to more problems and ways of looking at things. That's what entrepreneurship is about, fixing problems. The thing is, the banker isn't going to have any trouble fixing those problems if he's willing to work his ass of and deal with stupid shit. The issues at the beginning are usually fairly simple. They're usually things most people find mundane, but need to get done. And if you don't get those stupid little things done, you're fucked.
You don't have to be a genius to be a successful entrepreneur, hell you don't even have to be particularly smart. You just have to be willing to learn and do what it takes to get your business to tomorrow. While the consultant has a slight edge in skillset, the fact is that nobody with an IQ over 100 has much of an advantage over anyone else with an IQ over 100.
Not consultants. 2 x 2's are not used in startups. When something goes wrong consultants think the best solution is to hire a consulting firm.
I would like to caveat that my assumption is a consultant isn't dumb enough to hire a consultant for a start-up.
That's a fair point. Consultants have a more holistic view of the business, while bankers are very good at focusing on the numbers (specially revenue and benchmarks, both key for startups), but in the long run, it's the drive as well as the ability to adapt. Neither key factors are intrinsic in either profession.
Since I am a banker, I'm trying to count the number of companies that have former bankers versus former consultants on the helm. I've tried to google the data, but it may have to be done with brute force. Any suggestions?
This article was posted on WSO a ways back, managed to Google it up: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ciocentral/2011/12/05/the-path-to-becoming-…
The numbers that stand out to me are:
-30% start career in finance
-20% start career in sales & marketing
-4% start career in consulting (I have a feeling this is in large part due to the small # of consultants at top shops)
-75% take move into CEO role from operating role
-75% are internal promotions, but less than 33% are "lifers"
Hope that shed some light, I thought it was pretty interesting when I first got my hands on it.
Consulting or IB - which one better prepare for entrepreurship (Originally Posted: 07/17/2011)
I am a final year student at BSc Accounting and Finance at UK. I have a first class in all semesters and there is very high chances that I will be having first class in the final semester too.
Now I have just started looking into jobs. My options are Big4 accounting firms, IB or Consulting. Ideally after 4-7 years of industry experience I want to get a MBA from top 5, again gain 2-3 years of post MBA work experience and than start my own business (follow the entrepreneurship route). This way I will be able to save some money to start my business and have industry experience too.
Which types of job will better serve me in terms of getting into top 5 MBA programs as well as the experiences, which will be purposefulness when I start my own business. 1) Accounting firms (Big 4) 2) IB ( If I am able to break in through MSc route) 3) Consulting
Thank you for your time.
All the free advice you get will be worth exactly what you paid for it.
Try the search function, lazybones.
I have been searching as well and I understand a few differences like exit opportunities better in Consulting, IB has better pay etc. But with regard to MBA which one serves better? Also Which one will better prepare for entrepreurship. I know IB can save me more money to invest. After searching this site for a week, I am asking questions!
What type of "entrepreurship" are you talking about? If you mean a start-up then consulting is better, but honestly you should just go do a startup or work at a startup then, banking would land you jobs like VC and HF and PE probably slightly easier than consulting if that is what your looking for. Big 4 is just uhhhh big 4, not too much of what your looking for
By entrepreneurship, I mean that I should be able to buy a small manufacturing unit at the end of 7-8 years of job and expand it. I would love to "start-up" but first I would like to have a business which gives me a steady income. Also I would love to do MBA from top 5 mainly because of the strong network and brand name. I do not have enough funds to start-up at present, also I would prefer to work in some one else company before starting my own.
Ok so consulting sounds good, but what type of consulting? Also which one of these jobs is looked up more positively by top 5 schools?
Also working at a start-up right now is not an option because I am an international student and I will not get a work-visa for working in a start-up and I do not want to go back to India (to settle) for the next decade or so.
Also I heard Banking jobs are slightly heavier (in terms of hours per week) as compared to Consulting but you say otherwise?
" banking would land you jobs like VC and HF and PE probably slightly easier than consulting if that is what your looking for."
I may be wrong though
Another lazy post by a lazy get-rich-quick schemer.
"Ok so consulting sounds good, but what type of consulting? "
I recommend IT consulting for you. Back office. Fix people's Windows setups and take angry calls all day.
Your argument is completely baseless "get-rich-quick-schemer". I am NOT asking how to start a multi-billion dollar Hedge Fund after college. I am in Final Semester and I am trying to have a clear view as where should I seek jobs. Please do not hijack my thread by pushing your own frustrations what ever they may be on this thread. Let other more Civil and Senior people guide me.
IT Consulting after A&F? Ok, I get an idea on how smart you are. Just take out your own frustration at some other place, please.
To other people I mean what type of Management Consulting should I be looking at? Boutique or bigger firms or any other ways we could categorize it. I am new in job seeking and my questions may seem naive.
Chaiwala,
Firm-wise, you can't go wrong with any one of MBB. But, in certain practices, PwC, Deloitte etc. are pretty good too.
Focus-wise, consulting is extremely diverse. Check out which consulting focuses pique your interest (this is research that you will have to do for yourself). Chances are, you'll get the most out of those, and be better positioned for your entrepreneurial goals.
Now I want tea. :p
P.S.: Post this in either the job-search advice, Consulting, or I-Bank forum. You'll get good good advice there.
Would you please elaborate on "But, in certain practices, PwC, Deloitte etc. are pretty good too."
Because I have a number of friends at PWC, and they might be able to help me there. What types of practices at PWC , Delloitte will serve me for entrepreneurship.
Also would you please advice what will look better on my resume for top-5 MBA - Consulting or Big 4.
Great Advice Thank you very much.
lol, If you ever come to London , pm me I will buy you "double- special- tea- malai mar kae", coffee or beers what ever you prefer.
OP IS FROM LSE
Source: "I am a final year student at BSc Accounting and Finance at UK" and http://www2.lse.ac.uk/accounting/prospectiveStudents/undergraduate/BScA…
You should work for the goldman sacs.
I am NOT from LSE. LOL
Hope your still reading this thread.
Harvard MBA class of 2013 the highest percentage of students were working in consulting before MBA 21% of the class. Stanford 20% Chicago Booth 17.2% Ooh sorry I posted U.S. schools sure you can find stats for U.K. schools too I couldn't post the links triggered spam filter
Becoming an Entrepeneur: IB vs Consulting (Originally Posted: 09/05/2007)
What career path do you think will teach you more about business and possibly give you the skill set to set out on your own and start a company? Although I am not in consulting it would appear that the variety of businesses and the different areas of the business that you examine would give you a wider view. Thoughts?
everyone says consulting is better for everything except compensation. thats the impression i get on this board.
It's all in the head.
People keep hyping up consulting and make comparisons on this board. Who here has honestly had exposure to M/B/B? Let's be honest. If someone is in M/B/B, they wouldn't be posting here.
Haha, just by saying that you're hyping consulting even more (implying that M/B/B employees have more important things to do with their time than BB employees). I'm guessing you're neither.
Haha, just by saying that you're hyping consulting even more (implying that M/B/B employees have more important things to do with their time than BB employees). I'm guessing you're neither.
To OP, the best path to being an entrepreneur is to start a company, fail , and then go to a VC firm and THEN you can start the company you actually wanted to start. Complicated? Convoluted? I thought so too...
being an entrepreneur isn't about following a certain career path, it's about having a good idea. i think in either IB or consulting you will be able to make connections that will help down the road if you get a good idea
That's not true - what you are referring to is called the "garage myth". Most successful entrepreneurs are not the "idea men". That is a myth. Yes, there are a few. Think of Microsoft and Dell. However, the majority of people who start and successfully RUN businesses have deep industry contacts and deep industry experience. It really is NOT the idea.
That said, I would choose consulting over IB for general business knowledge which would aid an entrepreneur.
boozer, I'm just saying an M/B/B employee probably wouldn't surf an investment banking forum. After all the time I've been here, I've never seen anyone profess to be an M/B/B employee.
There's no need to get all aggressive. As I explained, I didn't make the comment with any intention to denigrate BB employees or hype M/B/B.
Obviously the message was interpreted differently when you read it. I guess it says more about your insecurity and lack of self-esteem than whether I am in BB or M/B/B.
There's several that I know of over in the consulting forum. I would guess there would be more that I don't know of.
I am with M/B/B and I know at least one other person who used to work there. You can't judge a person by whether or not they post on a message board. This board is a pretty decent source of info.
That's great! But just to clarify, I only made a judgment about boozer.
Do you feel I judged you or any other consultant?
alot of people here don't have a solid grasp of entrepreneurship. i don't either, but i think successful entrepreneurs do, like:
http://www.paulgraham.com/articles.html
in fact i think this guy has been mentioned on this forum a few times by a few different people; check it out, it is really helpful info. i am also thinking about doing something entreprenuerial at some point, but i know finance won't really help me (even though i'm doing it)
I'm sorry if you felt that was an aggressive response; don't really know how else to respond to the rest of your post.
alot of tech entrepreneurs started off as traders; well i don't know about alot, but two definitive notables are peter thiel and jeff bezos (youngest vp ever at DE Shaw i think). i don't know why this is; i guess traders are just super smart in general
That seems fairly consistent. Traders are adept at taking considered risks. Banking is more 'institutional' for want of a better word. The path is pretty worn etc.
There's no doubt that consulting gives more practical experience though, but wouldn't consultants be more likely to lateral in to established industry? I guess traders don't really have that softer option.
Actually it has more to do with having the cash flow to be able to fund their ideas. A lot of brilliant entrepreneurs never get off the ground because they dont have the funds.
What practical skills do consultants learn that makes them better at being entrepreneurs?
are more prone to becoming execs in industry, or on the biz dev side. i guess some subset of them might join biz dev at start-ups; i think they're more in touch with their clients and what exactly drives their clients' revenues, costs, etc etc, as well as what makes up a successful management team (since they're working closely with them on each case), etc etc i mean these are just my thoughts as to why they might be more inclined towards that profession. however, overall, i think it is a tough proposition for consultants/bankers/etc to become entreprenuers; none of these careers are very risky and don't demand a high risk appetite. beaker i think hit the nail on the head; traders make sense, along with anyone else who has a high enough risk appetitie (as artificial or real as this risk may be) for that type of work.
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