Who will you be voting for?
Assuming it is Trump vs Bernie
I am not a Trump guy but Bernie makes me barf. My family may disown me if I vote Trump.
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Bernie. We simply can't have another four years of Trump in office, politics has devolved beyond recognition in his first four. Senate will likely stay republican anyway, stonewalling many of Bernie's ridiculous economic proposals.
Electing Bernie in 2020 is like spraying febreeze over a carpet made of human shit.
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In the hypothetical posed there is no choice but Bernie.
Trump, it’s a idiotic move to give power to a socialist and then just hope none of the policies go into affect. Most people hating on trump are blind, emotional. You don’t vote for a person who’s policies you know will kill the economy because the other is an asshole.
1.) The hope is that he kills the economy (if he does) and Americans wake up to the folly of Bernie's brand of socialism. Not to mention four more years of Trump will make the socialist backlash even more severe than it currently is
2.) It's not about hate, I'm genuinely concerned with the fundamental state of our democracy if Trump is in office with no concerns about re-election. He's already shown a propensity to abuse power WITH the prospect of running again hanging over his head. Imagine a totally freewheeling Trump.
3.) I genuinely believe the guy is an idiot. We haven't had a serious crisis yet (luckily) but there is almost no way we go another four years without one. Do you want an unhinged idiot running the country during a serious crisis? Imagine Trump during 9/11....
The response to socialism starting to fail is almost always "we haven't gone far enough, going further will turn this around" and not a reversion to the prior state.
I can deal with an asshole. I can’t deal with a guy who is completely unstable and may ruin our political standing with allies. It makes America vulnerable. I also think he’s pushing our economy beyond what it’s capable of just for approval ratings, and the next President will be handed the bag of shit.
Also look at stats for hate crimes. It jumps up after Trump’s election. I’m not afraid for myself per say (I look white despite not being), but I have empathy for others.
Hard to make a case he will ruin our standing with allies based on what had happened since he has been in office. We have not seen any evidence of it yet
If Trump vs Bernie, it’s Bernie hands down. Healthcare modernization is long overdue, and Bernie is less likely to embarrass this country on a daily basis.
I like my current healthcare, thanks
I'm sure you do. I don't think Bernie is trying to reform healthcare because private equity VPs don't like their healthcare.
What do you like about it?
For me it would have to be trump. Bloomberg, Niki Haley, Kaisch, Biden, would be ideal for me But that isn’t going to happen... paying high taxes physically pains me especially when I never see value from it. I’ll deal with a questionable character in office (Trump) for another 4 years if the economy stays strong.
I'm actually stunned that so many people are saying Bernie... I don't know if everyone here truly understands the damage that he would do to our economy. We are talking about socialism here... 50%+ taxes on individuals and 90%+ taxes on corporations. You guys seriously need a reality check- our country will be ruined. Socialism is literally evil from its core, it takes from those who have ambition and work hard and gives to those that most often than not do not have those same qualities. Do you guys really need a basic lesson in incentives and what makes the world/economy function? I understand Trump may not be the most likable person, frankly- he's a hard ass, but he's led our economy to the best state in 50 years, he's working towards fixing a broken health care system (the disaster known as Obamacare), he's cut billions of aid to countries that literally ridicule the US (f*uck those countries they don't deserve a penny if they insult the US), he's creating a physical border to stop the onslaught of ILLEGAL immigrants coming into the country, he's fighting to stop high drug prices, his tax plan has been enormously beneficial to Americans in general (obviously people who live in high tax states like NY pay more in taxes but thats because without the deduction you have insane taxes from the state level- fix your local government first), he's essentially won the war against ISIS, and is as we speak working on a peace deal to end our presence. in the middle east.
And who do we have on the other side.... Bernie Sanders- a socialist who had his honeymoon in Moscow (because he's a bleeding heart communist), who's never had a real job in his life before, wants to take money from the rich meanwhile he has three houses... He hasn't done anything in his life and frankly is more polarizing and more insane than Trump. Get real guys, I'm ashamed to see this lack of thought on this forum that purports to have intelligent people writing on it- I guess the brainwashing is just that powerful...
Show your work, kid. Per the Right-leaning Tax Foundation, Bernie is proposing a 35% corporate tax rate - the exact same as Bloomberg's plan and what we had in this country for 25 years til 2017 while the economy and stock market boomed. Sanders has proposed some other punitive corporate taxes, but how do you get to 90+%?!
https://taxfoundation.org/2020-corporate-tax-proposals/
I won't deny Bernie's plans (if fully enacted, which they won't be) would alter the economic balance in the country, but you don't get to make up numbers just because you've drank the Trump kool-aid. Now get back to class.
Imagine being in your early 20's and thinking like this.
Thinking rationally? What's wrong with that
While I do absolutely share your sentiment, I can't agree with your numbers or the extent of Trump's success.
Ehh, the right hardos had their time in the sun, why shouldn’t the left have theirs.
It does seem unlikely any of his policies pass.
I can’t believe he isn’t working with the Russians. I don’t know how anything he wants to do will work without some muscle behind him.
TBH, when it becomes Bernie v Trump, the presidency becomes insignificant and then it’s more about the good men and women of this nation that will surround those two old geezers.
Sanders. I actually do like him and would like the Dem party to move in a new direction. We've bene stagnant for a while. Shake it up
Bernie v. Trump would be a bad scenario, and I would likely not vote, (I likely won't anyway as my vote isn't going to matter given where I live) but I would pick Bernie. Even if you swing that far left (which I don't) Warren's a better candidate, as she is willing to talk about the difficult mechanics of implementing her plans, while Bernie won't. My personal preference would be to see a centrist technocrat, and I would choose Bloomberg, Buttigeg, Klobochar and Biden in that order.
Trump's issue is that his policies are destabilizing the global order, inconsistent, temperamental and generally illogical. He is also breaking down institutional norms that will take decades to rebuild. firing people who said that items that might be considered bribing foreign powers into trying to interfere in our elections is wrong. Interfering in sentencing people who you like is wrong. I've got it on good sources that GS thinks that Trumps biggest strength is walking into a long-term bull market that even he can't mess up.
Agreed on both counts. Sexism is a helluva drug though.
If she was a man with her background and her presence she'd be running away with it.
I mean it’s mostly women, femboys, and too much education folks that far to the left. It’s hard to believe “sexism” would be that strong. It’s almost like there’s some physical phenomenon happening there.
The Trump right has made Obama the most underrated president in the US. One Trump guy was sure Obama never cut taxes.
I mean basic economic theory is that you cut taxes when times are shitty and up them when things are good to help keep the long term budget flat. This is Econ 101. The sad thing is that historically we've seen this better demonstrated by Democrats than Republicans since George (HW) Bush. W cut taxes in an expansion, and so did Trump.
My Fox News addicted aunt was making jokes about Obama golfing yesterday and was shocked to learn Trump has golfed far more than Obama through this point of their first terms. She had no idea, because SHOCKER, Fox News doesn't talk about POTUS golfing anymore.
Do we really need this thread multiple times a day every single day?
Probably not. Sh*t happens though. CTRL+C and CTRL+V my friend.
Eh.
Bernie all the way. Although he might not be the best 'market fit', it's time to think about other things, I consider myself a capitalist, but health is a fundamental human right, and in 2020 Americans still can lose everything over their health, it's crazy
Are you implying that you have a right to someone else's labor (Doctor) without having to pay for it- or pay what he is demanding. I don't think that's how a free society works. Nobody has a right to someone's labor for free- we have a name for that...
I'm hardly all-in on Bernie's health plan, but that's a poor description of the factors at hand.
The government (via society's collective tax dollars) would be compensating the doctor for his or her labor. You would not be getting it "for free" as much as you're paying for it via your taxes and everyone else's taxes similar to how you don't pay a copay to the military for national defense - it is just paid via taxes.
Are you honestly laboring under the assumption that the current market for healthcare in the United States is in any way running efficiently according to free market principles? The fact that you keep using simplistic terminology from The Wealth of Nations to opine on incredibly nuanced, real-world problems is not helping you.
This happens with law enforcement, fire, public works, and other things, so why draw an imaginary line at healthcare? I'm familiar with Rand Paul talking about how his poor self will be dragged out of bed to perform a surgery he isn't willing to do, but nothing like that has happened in other government ran industries. I see the case against nationalizing healthcare due to cost and the fact that many of the current problems deal with anti-competitive legislation and patent laws, but boiling your argument down to this is not going to change any minds
That is a slippery slope. If healthcare, food, etc are rights then I can just sit around on my ass and someone else has a duty to provide for me?
It’s mostly college kids on this forum. Bernie is the best choice for college kids that are broke which most are. college is expensive. these college kids will vote based on their current economic state. free college suits everyone on here because at the moment these college kids probably aren’t making a ton of money. But after a few years of them making good money they will re-evaluate their decision to vote socialist because after so many years. Free college won’t be free anymore because you’ll be paying for every generation after you. I’m from the UK, they tried it there in the 90s and it was a disaster. Currently it’s a disaster in France. Public schools in America might be free with Bernie but it will greatly devalue the public school. The professors will go to private. Acceptance rates will go down because it’s free and there’s not enough room for everyone. In France there’s no time for internships because people have to study way harder because there’s only so many spots for free college. Employers will start only hiring from expensive private schools. So right there, it will perpetuate the very problem Bernie wants to solve... that college is only for rich. It really will be. Do any of you guys know what it’s like to be on a waiting list for FREE HEALTHCARE. I’m guessing you don’t. My aunt was poor and couldn’t really afford private healthcare... she died on the waiting list for cancer treatments. And her normally had a high survival rate. I’m sure your left wing professors don’t tell you this but it’s true.
You're absolutely correct. I'm a college student currently, but I've seen what socialized healthcare looks like in Canada, my grandmother died because they decided that for her- they have death boards. The hospital she was in looked like something out of the 1980's Soviet Union- absolutely terrible. It's a shame that so many people dont truly understand the real consequences of this horrific implementation.
I’m so glad to see that you have sense. I’m sure you know this but a scary percentage of Canadians have visited the United States for healthcare reasons alone. I’m from London, uk currently living in the United States for good. I got citizenship. I certainly won’t be going back there to live. Just visit. I’m very satisfied with the healthcare system here. Though it’s far from perfect. Its worlds better than any government run system. It’s nice to see you recognize the issues in your country. I love Canada (gorgeous) and the people but it seems everyone there and from Europe(uk included), seem to think that the American healthcare system is terrible and they will let you die if you don’t have 100,000 in the bank. I can guarantee they won’t let you die as the law prohibits that practice. Do you really want the government to have your “human right” (healthcare) in their hands. These people can’t even hand out drivers licenses properly not to mention bloody healthcare. I wish we could discuss this more... it’s very rare that I come across a person like you.
As much as Trump has disappointed me, definitely going to be voting for him again.
I feel like most of the people that hate Trump want to hate Trump.
Oh agreed they will for instance get made at trump for being mean to women. Yet the same people will vote for sanders, did you know he wrote a piece about women enjoying getting raped ?
I prefer Bloomberg but I would vote for Sanders over Trump. While some of Sanders policies may be misguided, I think he is an honest guy who says what he believes.
All politicians are public orators. You have to measure politicians by what gets accomplished.
Why do you need to post anonymously with that comment? Your comment is not offensive or blunt?
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