Why do some people leave Wall Street?
So I'm about to enter Wall Street, but having noticed some kids I grew up with, who worked in the BB or HF full-time leave, I'm scared. Three of them:
1. One went to a semi-target (think Georgetown, UND), worked as a paper trader for a few years after grad at a BB, now is "biz-development" at some IT firm or something
2. The other went to the Ivy League, worked in a start-up HF, then went to BB, and now is at a start-up.
3. This guy went Ivy League too, was a credit trader at a BB for 4 years, now is at an insurance firm. He's not a salesman, but still.
What could have gone wrong? What errors could they have made that I gotta be careful not to make? Do a lotta people, particularly traders, go under? Do a lotta people think they wanna work on Wall Street but then find themselves not liking it? Is it that hard a business to swim and not sink in?
Finance is not for everyone. Its not that they did anything wrong (though they could have), its just possibly that their assumptions didnt match reality, or something better came along.
I'd also like to point out it doesn't 100% sound like any of these guys did anything wrong or are "failures" in any respect, so i would not immediately judge them based upon what you've described.
This route is typically cited as the path for those who want a better "lifestyle"
First off running a venture backed or venture fundable startup is no cake walk. Note theres a large difference between startup a company that is or can be venture backed and selling your beanie babies on Ebay. Its a completely different set of challenges, and more importantly expectations. You may love to hate on these guys who wear t-shirts and shorts to the office, but the analytical rigor and cognitive horsepower the successful bunch posses is mind-boggling. They could easily snag a job at any top tier firm, and lets not forget its these guys (entrepreneurs) that keep pay the fees that keep your BB doors open.
The draw here is creating massive amounts of value/wealth relatively quickly, as well as accelerating ones career. If your end goal is to end up at a VC fund (maybe PE too), you could shave several years off your career timeline by successfully exiting a startup (easier said than done). The failure rate is high, but theres
So i'd say these people havent failed. They've found other jobs, in some cases in finance or in other cases to improve their lifestyle or lot.
hope this helps
I heart casual dress codes- I work in a late-stage start-up now with a casual dress code (did a stint in VC), and this is spot-on.
Wall Street is a tough place long term... I dont think its only about being the best and the brightest but also last man/woman standing. Many people just want to try something else. I was at a bank in Houston for almost 4 years before leaving to do something WAY different
really?
Leaving I-Banking, why? (Originally Posted: 05/24/2006)
For everybody on their way out, why are you leaving and what are you looking for in your next job? Are the hours too much? Do you think you can make more money in PE or at another bank? Do you hate your coworkers? Do your coworkers hate you?
What's your point exactly?
I want a fun life. PE hours are the same. I'm leaving for something that my narcissistic-ass can enjoy.
What are you doing instead?
bump
What makes people leave Banking? (Originally Posted: 07/28/2014)
Previously I had a chance to do Ops, IT, strategy, and project management in a few banks. Intern at 2. Full times at 2.
Now I am no longer there since earlier this year. Sometimes I wonder maybe I should just be a good solder and just suck it up and get my paycheck and go home. Except I didn't with waking up everyday or so looking at myself, what a big mistake working here. Kind of like that Steve Jobs quote
"If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something.
Like most people, I just go to work, get on them conference calls, make a few powerpoint, eat lunch, take a $hit, conference calls, get coffee, and powerpoints, and then go home. Very complacent lifestyle honestly. If they didn't lay me off, I don't think I would have quit despite how much I hated the environment, the culture, the people, and the motivation and passion there in the workplace.
Talking with people, I am not the only one, right? So anyhoot, I just want to get some thoughts out there.
See why you folks decided to leave or about to leave, or choose to say. Which part of the workplace makes you do so? Communication policies, innovations issues, traditional culture, etc?
I thought they all left Wall Street because Midtown had better office buildings?
There are few jobs where you go into to work and think, man, today is going to fucking rock. This sounds pretty negative, but I think of my job as not bad enough to make me want to quit.
I don't see how your title is relevant to your post. Are you in banking? From your experience, it sounds like no? Are you currently employed? It sounds like you quit?
It sounds like you are unhappy with your job maybe. Something that may help answer your question (is there a question here?) is that working is not just for the immediate benefit financially and self fulfilling, but entry level is for the prospect of higher future earnings and career in which one day, you actually do want to go to work.
Hey numb nuts, his question was why do people quit banking. How is his title not relevant to his post?
Yes, people quit banking for many reasons. Either they realize that they have another calling in life, or realize that their impact on society is either 0 or negative. They also may find they are stressed out over money, which is the last thing you should be stressed out about.
To each their own, but if I don't see anything that would make me want to go work for a Big 4. Even if I was offered a high level position at a Big 4 right now, I wouldn't take it (not that I would be offered that). I've lived with a guy who was pretty high up at E&Y and I watched him hate his life for 3 years straight. He was in denial about it as well.
So yeah, go do what makes you happy.
why analyst leave banking (Originally Posted: 11/12/2010)
Why is it that analyst leave banking after their two years are up. Obviously the hours are slightly better in the pe/hf world but is the comp that much better too....I guess what i am asking is would someone who left to a pe shop be able to make as much if he had stayed in banking assuming he had an equal level position
Good troll post.
better hours, more pay, more interesting work, more ownership of your work, not having to be an institutional bitch for a client, etc.
.
In Banking there is no Capital Gain. Banks are simply glorified training centres.
Some never wanted to be in banking in the first place, and just use it as a means to get to where they want.
Funny how all the posts except one are from kids with no jobs.
got a job, just havent started yet. have summered. believe im qualified to answer. lay off.
Just to clarify though... except for the handful of analysts that get recruited to megafunds, comp is not necessarily better on the buy-side. What is better is there is less work like formatting and stuff - but at the same time, your analysis means money is riding on the line. One mistake can be squarely capped on your head.
Agreed - unless it's a megafund, or maybe very large MM, comp is not necessarily better. And hours vary per shop.
To echo ibhopeful, compensation will not be higher starting out at most shops, unless you are the 5% that are selected for a very large fund (where your hours will be similar to banking). The work can be more interesting as you are in the driver seat and calling the shots. Basically, you are not the clients bitch anymore, you are the client. At most shops, your pay will be very similar to banking, give or take, and you will probably have more flexible hours.
more potential upside(key here is potential), better hours, and what I think is key,different SENIOR skill set(less selling and less bullshit more analysis)
^ correct. You do not have to start out at a mega fund to hit it big - much stiffer competition and politics. You could start at a small to decent fund, help build it up and make quite a career for yourself. You could make some huge bucks as you rise through the ranks in a growing fund, which would provide a lot of personal reward as well. In banking, you are deal maker, but essentially at the mercy of others and just one part of the machine.
for those of you high school students... as an ibanker you make photocopies. seriously not joking. you are a slave. you get paid a lot because no one would do it for a low salary because that's how boring it is.
buy-side = you run shit
I doubt you're in banking because first of all the job might suck but I've never make photocopies in my life, they have dedicated support staff for that. And also, you don't run shit in buyside, especially not as a junior.
always better be to a buyer than a seller. those that have been an ibanking analyst know what im talking about. the amount of bs work to please a client or put a company in the best light is ridiculous
I just got home from spending a day on bs work. Yes, this business sucks.
Good question. Everyone brings up some good points above as to why PE/HF is better (culture, pay, ownership of your work) but don't discount banking as a more long-term path to these things. With everyone flocking to PE/HFs you may have less competition in banking and be better able to differentiate yourself.
I also would like to hear the appeal of staying on as an associate? what is it?
boutiquebank4life...you are retarded. "dedicated support staff?" sure brah how big is the dedicated support staff at piper?
as a first year analyst you ARE the support staff at any BB firm. obviously i'm not saying your JOB is to make photocopies... or do shit like that. but in general, everything you do is process work. you look at financial statements, edit pitchbooks, you are a slave to processing shit. don't try to idealize that stuff. i've driven to my MD's apartment at 6am to drop shit off. does your "dedicated support staff" do that too? bunch of fucking highschoolers on here thinking they know how shit works.
and what i meant by in buy-side, you run shit...is you work for your own firm, not for clients. sure if you come to buy-side as an ibanker they are gonna make you do boring work cuz guess what? that's why they hire you...they know you can work your ass off so they let you do shit that they don't wanna do. still better than ibanking though.
sorry to offend you if i did but the truth is the truth brah
Seems like you're the one who works at Piper buddy. lol @ ur banking experience. Ever heard of a black car?
"and what i meant by in buy-side, you run shit...is you work for your own firm, not for clients. sure if you come to buy-side as an ibanker they are gonna make you do boring work cuz guess what? that's why they hire you...they know you can work your ass off so they let you do shit that they don't wanna do. still better than ibanking though."
^Total contradiction. I can see why your bank only trusts you with photocopies and delivery services.
Oh wait you are the retard who made this:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/why-would-you-want-to-be-an-ibank…
Sorry about your ibanking rejection bro.
Either way, i think if you make it to the top level of either places, you're living a pretty good lifestyle. No matter what anyone says, I'm not sure the Managing Director at GS / MS / JPM or any of other BB's are exactly complaining about their lifestyles.
At the end of the day it's about personality - one of the appeal of the sell-side (and why I would consider it to be a viable long term career) is because as you get more senior, there's a ton of client interaction involved. You constantly meet new people and get exposed to new projects. You are an advisor to a client.
It's fundamentally different on the buy side. On the buy-side, it's much less about the people. It's about thorough due-diligence, analysis, and risk-taking that have a higher risk/reward profile.
At the end of the day, sell-side is a PEOPLE-driven business. Buy-side is an INVESTING-driven business. Personally, as someone who immensely enjoys interacting with new people, I would not mind at all staying on the sell-side - especially if someday I'm able to build a portfolio of clients who trust me to give them advice.
You guys are so mature. I'd love to hire both of you someday..
boutique, you've just proven yourself to be a some freshmen in highschool "no...YOU WORK FOR PIPER!" good comeback brah.
i didn't get rejected, just working for a hedge fund instead. making more $ than you ever will and i work half your hours. but hey have fun with your "dedicated support staff", do you ask them for help editing pitchbooks? hahahahaha
p.s.
how are my comments about buy-side a contradiction?
fact 1:
there will be process work in both sides, but the overall purpose of buy-side firms is to make investments and returns. as ibhopeful said. the overall purpose of sell-side is just to give advice to clients.
fact 2:
most PE shops hire bankers because they know ibankers can put in the hours. sorry if you're ignorant.
fact 3:
as made evident by your posts, you're just a) a highschooler, or b) a laid off banker who thinks he's the shit. what's new WSO?
You are a joke, sorry you could not make the cut "BRAH"....
This guy's such a joke.
"for those of you high school students... as an ibanker you make photocopies. seriously not joking. you are a slave." " i've driven to my MD's apartment at 6am to drop shit off. does your "dedicated support staff" do that too? bunch of fucking highschoolers on here thinking they know how shit works."
"i didn't get rejected, just working for a hedge fund instead"
Um... what? Try and make sense in your shitty flame.
caught the little fucker. nice
IMO people can overrate the start-up thing. Know a lot of guys into it. Some of them are really fucking smart, and some of them are rich/lazy kids with tons of money who flopped out of IB/MBB recruiting and want to dick around. See this especially with the international guys.
The truth is, life happens.
Once you get some Wall Street job, it's not like you just just live happily ever after and the stars align for you in the shape of a thumbs up as you drill a Brazillian model up the ass every night. In reality, you're a fucking employee, and you wake your ass up every fucking day and go to work. For years.
Sometimes people decide that it's not for them. More often people get offered something with a better relative value. Maybe your fiance moved to San Francisco to get her ph.d and you thought staying with the love of your life, even though it meant taking a 30% pay hit to do biz dev at a startup, was more important than keeping the official Barclays Nazi Eagle on your business card. Maybe Freddie Mac gave you an offer to work 9-5 pm making $200k doing the same fucking shit you were doing at Goldman 9-2 AM for $250k, and you decided you don't give a shit about that extra $50k. Sometimes, in life as in finance, a better trade comes along.
Based on your question, I'm guessing you're a college kid. Think about it this way - you've been in college for 4 years. An analyst stint is generally 3. Your whole college experience is the time it takes to make you a first year associate. Imagine the grind it takes to become an MD... this is our life, there's no right answer and there's no happily ever after. Sometimes people decide not toss their whole life into the meat grinder.
Do you know if they left involuntarily or voluntarily?
Probably. It's hard to understand this when you're in college and haven't yet had a career, but you really don't know what you want yet. Sure, you think you know what you want when you're still in college, but often times people don't have a clue. Is it really that hard to believe that some people absolutely loathe working 80 - 120 hours a week? Hell, I have a 40 hour a week job, and I still can't stand sitting in that cubicle for 40 hours a week.
Look, if you're interested in working at a BB or HF, try it out. If it's not for you, you can always leave and try something else. There's really no reason to be scared now about the fact that you might not like it in the future. Peoples preferences and goals change. Sometimes you start a job thinking you're going to love it, and after a few months you realize it's not as cool as you hoped.
My cousin works at Wall St. and he said that he would like to quit because at the end of the day, he felt the only thing he did was help the firm make more money. I told him to quit then if he hates it, but he said he couldn't because he has a family now, and it would be hard for him to find another job that pays just as much as his current one given his non target school degree.
Another woman I talked with about consulting told me she left Wall St because she too felt that working there was meaningless and that she wanted to do more. I think why she was there in the first place was because she was pressured into it (she went to an Ivy). So now she works for the EPA or something DC I believe.
So perhaps the kids you grew up with left because they wanted to contribute to their firms in more meaningful (in their opinions) ways.
Shit, I'm not the only one who has a hard life in my 20s. It's not all rainbows and unicorns.
They leave for the same reasons people leave any job in any other field...
Ea recusandae est est pariatur. At ut temporibus est eveniet suscipit neque. Natus odit architecto distinctio vel.
Earum non eligendi numquam quas voluptatem at. Consequuntur ea voluptatibus impedit cum provident nisi.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Dignissimos vel placeat voluptates voluptate ea nostrum occaecati. Ea ipsam ut culpa dolor reiciendis. Impedit reiciendis vel quo voluptate omnis ducimus. Aut qui perferendis consequatur.
Recusandae voluptas qui consequatur provident tempora ad facere. Optio officia nihil a voluptas est quod ea. Rerum dolor voluptates id quia totam occaecati aliquid.
Dolore voluptas quisquam vero et quis. Aliquam adipisci temporibus neque dolore tempora maiores nihil. Sapiente quisquam nobis autem dicta aut ipsa. Tempore voluptatem quia et a molestiae ut.
Autem sed expedita sint fuga rerum. Rerum sint ea dolor mollitia molestias est. Ducimus molestiae aspernatur odio blanditiis harum quia veniam.
Ut culpa qui id officia magni molestiae officiis aperiam. Iure adipisci hic adipisci dolor nobis voluptas.
Similique quis quos corporis impedit et dolorem facere. Atque sapiente rerum quis debitis et nam. Dolor aut dolorem modi ducimus repudiandae.
Rerum aut pariatur quam atque eum eum. Repellendus quisquam repellendus cupiditate corporis est ut praesentium. Nostrum velit excepturi quia et tenetur doloremque in. Fugit ipsa error maiores et voluptatem iste aut. Et eveniet eligendi illum non magnam.