Why are there so many gifted kids mentally ill?

midtowngal's picture
Rank: Senior Baboon | 195

This has been intriguing me and puzzling me a lot. I've witnessed some lighter cases than something like ASD in my personal life. Most are smart kids who are clinically depressed.
Until not long ago, if I were to have sons, nothing would make me happier than getting them in Mensa. But now, I kinda changed my mind.
You better be afraid, very afraid if you were "golden touched" by lord. Just too much baggage to carry.

Comments (25)

Dec 17, 2012

Because psychiatrists these days like to be able to fit every little thing in to a box, and because every little tick away from what someone considers "normal" is considered a disease as opposed to a deviant that can be dealt with through personal choice as opposed to something that can't be controlled at all (because people prefer to think of things as out of their control as opposed to them just behaving poorly - i.e. the lazy kid who claims that they just have a.d.d. or are a "very high level" aspberger or some random bs), and because parents want to have an easy answer (i.e. drugging up their kids).

"...all truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

  • Schopenhauer
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Dec 17, 2012

Because the world is a terrible place, and smart kids are more perceptive.

Dec 17, 2012

The idea that they are different is re-enforced in their minds by everyone/everything they interact with. At some point they realize they cannot be satisfied with this very materialistic and shallow reality we have created. Usually the child's gift is not recognized or ignored/drugged down as the previous post suggested. They grow up in a perpetual state of isolation even if they are able to socially integrate with those with less perceptive abilities.

just my opinion

Dec 17, 2012
Tengo:

The idea that they are different is re-enforced in their minds by everyone/everything they interact with. At some point they realize they cannot be satisfied with this very materialistic and shallow reality we have created. Usually the child's gift is not recognized or ignored/drugged down as the previous post suggested. They grow up in a perpetual state of isolation even if they are able to socially integrate with those with less perceptive abilities.

just my opinion

+1. Your opinion, I like and I agree. Perpetual state of isolation, how sad and how helpless is that?

I'm feeling like a star, you can't stop my shine---Ridin' Solo

Dec 17, 2012

Don't put them into Mensa, it's a club for people who want everyone else to know they're smart.

Will write more on this if this thread proves popular. Have put a hell of a lot of research into it. Long story short, we define a disorder strangely. When Newton and Einstein are classified in such a regard, don't you think we should change the definition? But guess what, you can peddle pills to their parents who just want their kids to be normal? Fuck normal. Normal is boring and has been done before. Whatever you do, do something new.

Dec 17, 2012
trazer985:

Don't put them into Mensa, it's a club for people who want everyone else to know they're smart.

Will write more on this if this thread proves popular. Have put a hell of a lot of research into it. Long story short, we define a disorder strangely. When Newton and Einstein are classified in such a regard, don't you think we should change the definition? But guess what, you can peddle pills to their parents who just want their kids to be normal? Fuck normal. Normal is boring and has been done before. Whatever you do, do something new.

Applause to the "Fuck normal. normal is boring" part. that has been my philosophy.
A good thread is not meant to be a popular one just like the prodigies themselves. You gotta show us the research anytime. I've always wanted to do the same kind on them as well.

I'm feeling like a star, you can't stop my shine---Ridin' Solo

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Dec 17, 2012
trazer985:

Don't put them into Mensa, it's a club for people who want everyone else to know they're smart.

Will write more on this if this thread proves popular. Have put a hell of a lot of research into it. Long story short, we define a disorder strangely. When Newton and Einstein are classified in such a regard, don't you think we should change the definition? But guess what, you can peddle pills to their parents who just want their kids to be normal? Fuck normal. Normal is boring and has been done before. Whatever you do, do something new.

As the great philosopher Angus Bethune once said ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OwVEQ3GmvQ

Dec 17, 2012

Mother always told me that Jesus blessed me with the ability to make awesome jewelry out of macaroni + glue + string. But no one understands or appreciates my genius. Fuck this world.

Dec 17, 2012
Ron Paul:

Mother always told me that Jesus blessed me with the ability to make awesome jewelry out of macaroni + glue + string. But no one understands or appreciates my genius. Fuck this world.

You have my sympathy. You are a total troll now. We all understands that.

I'm feeling like a star, you can't stop my shine---Ridin' Solo

Dec 17, 2012

As someone with admittedly little familiarity with Mensa, what practical purpose does it serve other than making you look like you try really, really hard to appear intelligent? I took a couple versions of the IQ test for a study in high school, and while very interesting, are about as indicative of future success as your kindergarten report card (especially given that the majority of these people take the test many times and practice to improve their score [is that actually considered raw intelligence?]). I say that as someone who "scored" very well; it's basically a really long game of timed tetris...apologies if you're in Mensa, I find it no less douchey than wearing around Tapout and affliction t shirts.

Also, your kid being in Mensa will have no affect on his mental health.

Dec 17, 2012
CaR:

As someone with admittedly little familiarity with Mensa, what practical purpose does it serve other than making you look like you try really, really hard to appear intelligent? I took a couple versions of the IQ test for a study in high school, and while very interesting, are about as indicative of future success as your kindergarten report card (especially given that the majority of these people take the test many times and practice to improve their score [is that actually considered raw intelligence?]). I say that as someone who "scored" very well; it's basically a really long game of timed tetris...apologies if you're in Mensa, I find it no less douchey than wearing around Tapout and affliction t shirts.

Also, your kid being in Mensa will have no affect on his mental health.

Yeah, you are right. I know I have a relatively high IQ but I probably won't score too high on the test. That's why I don't even bother trying it.
Again, a little about me, I only went to senior high for one year and then I left because some issues I had with the educational system in that country. I then self taught myself at home and used most of my time to goof around. Eventually I got a SAT score which is above 90% and got in college. I finished my undergrad with two majors and a sub 3.0 in 2 years and a half . Obviously it is not an Ivy kind. but I'm happy. The end, used about two months to prepare for GRE and got a 1480. I know I'm something because sometimes I even had to deal with some obsessive disorders. I just wonder what's in the genes of "gifted" ones which can make them feel miserable.

I'm feeling like a star, you can't stop my shine---Ridin' Solo

Dec 18, 2012
midtowngal:
CaR:

As someone with admittedly little familiarity with Mensa, what practical purpose does it serve other than making you look like you try really, really hard to appear intelligent? I took a couple versions of the IQ test for a study in high school, and while very interesting, are about as indicative of future success as your kindergarten report card (especially given that the majority of these people take the test many times and practice to improve their score [is that actually considered raw intelligence?]). I say that as someone who "scored" very well; it's basically a really long game of timed tetris...apologies if you're in Mensa, I find it no less douchey than wearing around Tapout and affliction t shirts.

Also, your kid being in Mensa will have no affect on his mental health.

Yeah, you are right. I know I have a relatively high IQ but I probably won't score too high on the test. That's why I don't even bother trying it.
Again, a little about me, I only went to senior high for one year and then I left because some issues I had with the educational system in that country. I then self taught myself at home and used most of my time to goof around. Eventually I got a SAT score which is above 90% and got in college. I finished my undergrad with two majors and a sub 3.0 in 2 years and a half . Obviously it is not an Ivy kind. but I'm happy. The end, used about two months to prepare for GRE and got a 1480. I know I'm something because sometimes I even had to deal with some obsessive disorders. I just wonder what's in the genes of "gifted" ones which can make them feel miserable.

You have a cool story, and you sound like someone I'd much prefer to be around than your SoonHo Ahn summa cum laude Princeton banker. Keep doin you!!

Also, does anyone watch Homeland? She drives me nuts at times but Kerry from that show comes to mind when I think of people falling into the obsessive/too smart for their own good category...

Dec 17, 2012

A lot of stupid people are mentally ill, too. There are different kinds of mental illness as well; some are characterized by high intelligence and some aren't.

Dec 18, 2012

Common traits associated with people with mental illnesses is low latent inhibition, increased synaptic plasicity, and occasional, sharp, positive moods.These are all traits associated with highly creative people, as they relate to increased sensitivity to stimuli, ability to create unique associations, episodes of high energy and productivity, and altered motivations.

Source: my freshman year paper on creativity and mental illnesses. Take that as you will.

Dec 20, 2012
virtu333:

Common traits associated with people with mental illnesses is low latent inhibition, increased synaptic plasicity, and occasional, sharp, positive moods.These are all traits associated with highly creative people, as they relate to increased sensitivity to stimuli, ability to create unique associations, episodes of high energy and productivity, and altered motivations.

Source: my freshman year paper on creativity and mental illnesses. Take that as you will.

Wow, this is fucking enlightening. All the answers I'm seeking hard all my life are included in your crisp and knowledgeable words. I even had to google some of the terms for their meaning. Hey, freshman paper? You must be a genius. wish to see it some time.
Super kudos!!

I'm feeling like a star, you can't stop my shine---Ridin' Solo

Dec 21, 2012

Haha thanks, though I had it easy. My paper was more just a synthesis of research on the topic:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/117644835/Mental-Illness...

Provides some more detail and examples (bolded what I found interesting), but I think the first post mostly covers what you'd like to know in terms of mental illness.

Dec 18, 2012

This thread is stupid without data. I've never seen any data that mental illness strikes more intelligent people. Looking at the prison population I'd actually assume the exact reverse.

Dec 18, 2012
PetEng:

This thread is stupid without data. I've never seen any data that mental illness strikes more intelligent people. Looking at the prison population I'd actually assume the exact reverse.

Look up the number of people who have really changed the world with their inventions that have some form of autism. I would say mental illness is actually just a couple of standard deviations of some aspect of the brain, leading to a wider range of the distribution. You observe the extremes, as they stick out more. You see the bottom in jail, and the top. We are more polarised, the average will be similar.

Dec 18, 2012
trazer985:
PetEng:

This thread is stupid without data. I've never seen any data that mental illness strikes more intelligent people. Looking at the prison population I'd actually assume the exact reverse.

Look up the number of people who have really changed the world with their inventions that have some form of autism. I would say mental illness is actually just a couple of standard deviations of some aspect of the brain, leading to a wider range of the distribution. You observe the extremes, as they stick out more. You see the bottom in jail, and the top. We are more polarised, the average will be similar.

Under that reasoning I would assume that highly mutated brains would be negatively correlated with intelligence. As with all traits, the vast majority of mutations are not beneficial.

That's the exact opposite of what the OP has said.

edit: Even if you aren't speaking to any sort of 'mutation' then there still needs to be an argument that extremely high neuroticism is highly correlated with intelligence (or something like that). That is a very big stretch. The correlations between Big-5 personality traits and IQ are weak.

Dec 18, 2012
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