Why does this forum look down on sales roles so much?
I’m curious why this sub looks down on sales roles so much. Obviously I’m not taking about AXA, Northwestern mutual etc. I’m referring to sales jobs in AM where you’re speaking with either FAs or Institutional investors.
The way I see it, you’re revenue generating so if you’re good at your job you can make a great living. The roles still have a relatively high barrier to entry due to the additional learning requirements/designations/previous WE.
You still have to have some technical knowledge etc. I feel like it’s a great and rewarding part of the business yet people on this forum talk about it like if you’re in sales, you’re like the IVY league school athlete.
Curious to people’s thoughts on this.
Because this is the IB forum so people here want to do IB?
Meant for the AM group lol my b
You consider that investment banking?
Most people on this forum are insecure, narrow minded and narcissistic so any non prestigious role is going to make it seem worthless. Take this website with a pinch of salt because a lot of posters come from sheltered backgrounds so their inability to deviate away from chasing prestige is comical.
The so called titans of finance are closing deals based on their ability to sell not because of a pitch book. If you find sales to be a right career path for you then please do it - make a killing and enjoy your life instead of thinking you are missing out on something.
Barriers of entry are definetly not high for Northwestern mutual. They would hire anyone with a pulse at my non-target. AXA is a little higher, but they still take almost any finance major.
The hardest ones to get in are probably branch offices like Ed Jones, Schwab etc. but if you have anywhere near the work ethic of IB you will get in no problem.
Also people look down at it because of the nature of it. I worked as a financial advisor so I know what I am talking about.
You cold call random people all day or even knock on their door to sell them useless finance or insurance products in most cases. Sure you can actually help some people, but they guya that make the big bucks sell mostly bullshit that no one needs.
The knowledge you need is also limited. Usually you have a program where you just enter their demographics and it spits out a financial plan. The one skill you really need is social skills and be good at maintaining relationships/persuasion.
TLDR: little skill needed to do the job. Earnings are low unless you sell a shit ton. No one likes getting rejected 30 times a day. That is why those jobs are looked down on.
You misread my post/question. I said not like AXA/Northwestern mutual...
Also, I’m referring more to AM sales like retail or institutional side. Where clients are FAs or Institutional clients. I didn’t say anything about the end client.
FA while it does a lot of good, is not where my interest lies. Hence the areas I asked about earlier. While all the roles are cold calling these roles I’m inquiring about are different from the FA role which you described.
I’m referring to sales jobs in AM where CFA/MBA is preferred and you don’t interact much if at all with the end client.
Mostly because there's very little finance involved in AM sales... I'm sure if people were gunning for a sales career they'd be all over talking about AM sales or investor relations at an HF / PE firm or whatever.
Nothing wrong with selling it just doesn't exactly mesh with the interests of the people on this board.
This is so wrong on so many different levels. little skill needed to do the job? I'd argue sales is the # 1 most important business skill. Whether it's selling yourself ,selling your ideas or selling a fucking fund even down the line.
I learned all the technicals like the back of my hand as an analyst in IB. I know how to do a complete SOTP scenario with 4 different fab foundries turned on or off at dif capacities and iterate it 100x. It's fucking pointless. The deal closed because my MD was able to sell this shitty ass semi's company to another one of his contacts at a large shitty semi's company. Not because I iterated the slides 100x.
Think small, stay small.
100pct true. Not discounting technical skills / work but all these are largely supporting acts or irrelevant particularly for sell side roles as you move up whether M&A or cap marks.
IB is hard to get into, but a relatively "safe" way to make a lot of money after you get in. Sales works in the opposite way, easy to get into, but hard to make a lot of money. People going into IB are typically the type to follow a traditional, safer way to success.
You realize 90% of what IB MDs do is sales - right?
You do realize 90% of people who go into IB will not make it to MD or have any desire to be - right? Doing IB to get it on your resume and then doing anything else is the "safe" path that the majority of people here want to do.
Ironically, to make real money (the type that the IBers on WSO dream about) you have to be great at sales and the job specifically is a sales job (MD is a sales job first and foremost).
Jobs that create revenue are well paid.
AM revenue creating jobs are well paid. Unlike the retail FA jobs mentioned (NWM, AXA, etc) AM jobs are not easy to get, actually quite competitive (FIDO, PIMCO, Capital Group, Wellington) with thousands of applicants for a few hundred spots at most.
As another poster mentioned, the IBers are seeking a predictable path. The reality is most of what they've ever done has been with little risk. High achievers nonetheless, but with no to little risk. Do X ang get Y kind of stuff. Heaven help them if they had to actually get creative and make something happen. The sales guy/gal , otherwise known as revenue generator, has no clear path. That's why it's so lucrative. Become a top achiever there and there is no cap.
I haven't had a salary in 30+ years. Can't imagine why anyone would want someone else to limit what they can earn. Most of the time I've made great income and if I wanted more, I did more. If I didn't get it done, that's on me. It's just a different mentality.
But don't for a second think the top fund families are a cake walk to enter even in a sales capacity. They have three basic functions. Portfolio Mgmt, Product Design / Mgmt, and Distribution. All take a different skillset and are serious positions. And all are paid quite well.
Thank you! This is the answer I was looking for. I’m a salesperson through and through but the view of this sub as salespeople are “lesser” is funny cause like you said, IB is sales and anyone who makes a lot of money/does a lot of deals is good at sales.
I am interviewing at one of the 3 firms you mentioned for a role in AM that distributes through the FA channel so this was helpful. Thanks
What do you do now? Are you an advisor?
I do a few things. Yes I'm still an FA (more like PWM for my friends / family and referrals). I'm a Principal of a securities firm. I'm an owner of an independent insurance agency. Some of the securities reps I supervise / affiliate with are heavy quant / CFA types. One guy is the CIO of a Trust Company and manages 2B. Other guys are CFAs and build their own portfolios (individual securities, not funds or FOFs). Of course others just use packaged products. I have a senior level relationship with many investment cos, have met with PMs (because we send them a bunch of money), etc.
Per another comment on the thread, I agree a sales role is not as technical (not even close) as a credit research analyst, but once the CRA helps the PM get the holdings in the funds, distribution has to know A LOT about it. Not just surface level BS but they take a pretty deep dive (if they want to talk to me or my group). Some provide tremendous value in portfolio building assistance, point of sale (if necessary), and overall product support. I need to be able to go to my clients with airtight info, confidence, etc. They provide that or I use a different fund family for that asset class.
My thoughts is while you have technical knowledge to back up your claims, it is ultimately less intellectually rigorous. Actually doing the AM requires the technical skills and knowledge, doing the sales part requires strong EQ and people skills. I'm not going to claim that one is better than the other, just people are suited for different roles, and I feel the people here on WSO are more geared to the technically minded aspects.
Don’t discount Enterprise Sales roles either, a lot on here do.
Yep, I'm still a BDR slave but the enterprise guys I work with make a killing and have really impactful jobs to the company. I support our global banking division, so we/they sell into all the big banks that the people on this website salivate over. If you hit or go over your $1.2MM year quota accompanied by what I think is a $125k base salary you can get up the 3-600k range every once in a while.
Most places have you start there for a year, then your promotion and pay ramps up fast.
What type of software do you sell?
Well if look hard enough you'll see this site can be divided into two distinct demographics.
There are a few people in this forum who needs to be listened to when they talk but most other talk here needs to taken with a grain on salt. Do what you want to do man cause there are many ways to earn cash and ultimately no matter how good you are with technical knowledge, its knowing how to handle people and make relationships that will get you far in your career.
Oh man, you're so wise and mature! Please, lay upon us more wisdom, I'm begging you, everyone except you is so immature and naive!
Case in point :)
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