Not getting interviews - what to do?
Hello,
I've been following WSO for almost a year now, and have found it very helpful. But I'm now in a position where I'm in rather serious trouble.
I'm a junior at a semi-target, and managed to get a couple first round interviews for IB SA positions that led to nowhere. I'd say this was largely my fault for being not as prepared as I should've been. So I've been studying more and honing my interview skills.
The problem is that I'm having trouble getting any more interviews. At one bank that I networked very extensively with, I asked why I didn't get a first round interview for OCR, and the MD that is in charge told me that it was a difficult decision but the process was just too competitive.
I can't change my GPA, experiences, etc. now, so I was wondering what I could possibly do to secure some kind of internship for next summer. I don't want to give up IB, and am focusing on Chicago.
What can I do? Should I focus on lesser name banks?
Any advice would be helpful. I'm trying my best to not panic and stay calm and focus on what I can do.
In the same boat, any advice would be great.
Bump? Any advice would be appreciated.
Don't stop networking, especially at places you haven't applied and reached out to. And keep asking yourself if they would perceive you as a qualified candidate. Regardless of your classmates' success, you might be able to get an offer in Jan/Feb; you just don't know which bank. However, it's not about checking the boxes but whether you are doing it right.
Keep going. Get yourself to feel comfortable with people on the interview. Make sure you look very polished and your resume is pristine. Also get yourself into bankers network, a lot of people find jobs through recommendations, make sure you participating and meeting other bankers. It is a very competitive market and you have to give your best. I live in NYC and took special class to learn financial modeling better than I was thought in school. I really got more confident in it and could speak to my interviewer about it more open and told him that I can build a model right now if he needs and that impressed him. Good luck.
Struggling with getting interview and I have no idea why (Originally Posted: 09/07/2017)
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Just include your major GPA.
Thanks for the input. Wouldn't they ding me because it raises a red flag?
Struggling to land interviews (Recent College Grad) (Originally Posted: 09/06/2017)
Hello fellow WSO readers,
A brief background on myself: A recent college grad in the West Coast (non-target) with average GPA and real estate internship experience (wanting to break into finance & real estate). I haven't been networking at my school and is one of my biggest regrets.
I've been struggling since I graduated to actually get any replies from companies that I've applied for. It's already been approaching 3 months with not even one reply from companies for phone interviews. I realized finding a full time job for a college grad is challenging but not being able to even have a chance for interviews is literally driving me insane. I have been tailoring my resume and cover letter for each entry level positions posted on major BB and smaller local companies near my area but no luck.
Would really love some feedback or advice from anyone who have went through similar situations or job hunting experience as a college undergrad. Thanks.
If you mean average gpa as in average for your school, then online applications won't do you much good. If you're talking about average for high finance applicants (3.5 - 3.7) then you could still land some first rounds from smaller shops. In terms of west coast schools, if you're from ucla, USC, Berkeley, you should be fine. Also, companies only reach out to their top 1 - 10% applicants on average. Small companies screen less people than big companies but also have less applicants. If your profile isn't decent but just average, you'll have a hard time getting in without extra effort on your part.
Lower than 3.5 for me and graduated from a UC that's not LA or Berkeley. After some research I do think Los Angeles and So Cal big firms hire mainly within from USC and UCLA. I guess my only chances are at local, smaller firms but even those firms have not contacted me. I'm thinking if it's any possible for non-targets to get into Wealth Management (client associate) or as an analyst.
Something about your profile isn't interesting for the jobs you're applying to. Either you are reaching too far with the jobs you are applying to or your resume isn't tailored to the roles. This could happen if you are using the same resume for both finance and real estate job applications.
First, if you're using the same resume: STOP THAT. Second, if your GPA is sub-3.5 and on the resume: REMOVE IT. Third, don't be afraid to show passion in your resume. Your GPA doesn't stand out nor does your school, so something else will have to.
Hopefully this helps, good luck!
Thank you for the feedback, appreciate it!
Know the feeling. Also came out of a non-target (East Coast/New York) with a 3.4 GPA and a sole PE internship. NO luck. Lessons learned, very first thing you should be doing is reaching out to your school's alums. Your school should have an alumni network site, mine did at least. Ask your career services office. You should be able to drop emails. Other option is Linkedin, which tracks alumni employed in any given company. You can reach out with a few lines that way too. Don't press them to get you employed though. I got two alum bulge bracket MD's to critique my resume. And its a small enough task that they don't mind doing it (one even offered). But it will make a huge difference (THE most solid resume advice you can get). The younger alums are sociable and are good at kick-starting your network.
Also, have a look into Asset Management. It's a great way to break in for non-targets. AM expectations are "lower" at the analyst level (i.e.3.2 GPA's and bare minimum work experience) since they have to put their young recruits through company-specific training. AM also invests in a ton of instruments, REITs being big focus in real estate. You'll gain enough exposure to make the switch. For a fresh-faced grad its a great generalist role to get a feel for what you like and dislike, and at humane hours and a decent pay.
But that's my humble opinion anyway. Best of luck.
Thank you for your suggestions! I've been glued to Linkedin more than ever knowing that I need to find some 1st or 2nd connections in the jobs I'm applying. Will reach out and see if they can help me with resume critiques as well. Thank you.
Well... How tailored are your cover letters? Most cover letters are boring (I would know; I had a hard time landing interviews too when I talked the same generic shit that everyone does on their cover letters) so to stand out, you shouldn't be afraid to show off your writing style (if you have a distinct one). A bit of personality goes a long way, and I don't think anyone should use templates for cover letters (unlike a resume).
Please don't use hot pink comic sans font though. (Yes, there are people who do that. No, they don't get hired.)
Good point... I edit my cover letter before applying but not as specifically tailored as my resumes. But doesn't most companies use ATS for their job applicants and your resume needs to be picked up for an actual HR to read over your cover letter as well? anyways thank you for your suggestion! Much appreciated
Hello guys,
Just wanted to update on my job hunting: finally got an offer as a client associate. Thank you to all the suggestions for resume and cover letter. I think tailoring it for each specific job description made it pass the ATS and land interviews.
Once again, thank you WSO readers and fellow colleagues!
Need Advice on How to Get FT Interviews (Originally Posted: 04/10/2017)
Hello All,
I am currently a junior at a non target majoring in finance and accounting. The past two summers I interned at a PWM firm and then an Asset Management firm (AUM $4.7bn). After some interviews with BBs in the fall, I unfortunately did not receive an offer as a SA. However, I did hedge my bets and apply to multiple positions within the Big4. Considering I have no other choice, I took an audit internship this summer in NYC with a Big4 firm.
I know audit is not what I want to do but I took the position anyways for the name recognition and the ability to experience New York for the summer ( I am not from NY). My worry is that everywhere I shop my resume next year when trying to get a FT offer, the audit internship will be a waste of time as it doesn't translate into any finance roles (I think).
Has anyone had any success with this? I figure it might just be easier to stay within the Big4 firm and transfer into the advisory arm of the firm. However, my plan is to network, take some modelling classes and do anything I can to beef up my resume anyway I can senior year.
I guess my biggest question is how can I best position myself for a FT offer with an audit internship in my summer before graduation?
When should I start networking and hitting the phones / emails?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
bump.
Jccmstar, I'm going to be brutally honest with you because I feel like this is always the best approach with career advice: FT recruiting is going to be very, very difficult for you. IB has gotten to the point where the vast majority of offers given are return offers for SAs, while the handful that remain are given to candidates who interned at similar firms. There are a few IBs who run traditional FT processes, but they are few and far between. I'm sure you already know this, though.
Your first step should be to figure out what went wrong in your SA interviews. You don't have to tell me, but be honest with yourself. Were you unprepared? Were you unpolished? What happened? You got interviews, so you clearly passed the sniff test, but something must have happened in the interview.
Did you do any networking for SA recruiting? Reach back out to those contacts. Considering that networking will probably be your only shot at FT recruiting, you should have started yesterday...no, scratch that. You should have started networking the day after your last IB SA interview failed. You also really, really need to get that story down. Perhaps consider the WSO Wall Street Mentors program. You will need a compelling and realistic reason why you took on that audit internship, and "because I failed to get an IB internship" does not count. And, yes, definitely sign up for a modeling class. I prefer BIWS, but WSO does give a discount on WSP.
Finally, just take a deep breath. Worst case scenario, FT recruiting is a complete disaster and you have to start in Big Four auditing. Maybe you work there a year and then move to your firm's TAS group and re-asses. I'm sure you're freaking out right now, so take a minute to realize that there are many ways into the building than just the front door.
Just in addition to what @Sil has said, my understanding is that it is not uncommon to transition from Audit to corporate finance/Transaction Services at the Big 4. If you can grit your teeth and do a few years in Audit then you may be able to change path this way.
Thanks for the advice. I think I have a lot of improving to do and I definitely will cast a much wider net than just IB. I'm also interested in other divisions of finance I just happen to have put this thread into the IB one.
Why am I not even getting a phone interview? (Originally Posted: 06/11/2011)
Hey,
First off, I'm not one of these people with unrealistic expectations. I know how hard it is to break into investment banking (or even S&T for that matter) and that it's not for everyone. I also know how selective most investment banks are.
But: I'm studying at one of Europe's top 10 business schools, I am among the top 2% of my class (=1:1 degree), have a GMAT of 740 (although that wasn't on my resumé when I applied), won several international sports competitions (rowing), won several chess competitions, have been active in investment societies and social enterprises at Uni. I also speak four European and one Asian language (although I am not Asian myself), and spent a semester at Berkeley. Oh and FYI I am also not a social outcast. The only thing I haven't done is any previous internships or spring weeks.
I applied to ALL major investment banks, and I didn't even get a phone interview at RBS (can you believe it?).
My CV and Cover Letter aren't too different in layout and professionalism than those of my friends who ALL at least got phone interviews with most major banks.
So here we go, perhaps any one of you can enlighten me as to what's missing. I mean of course, I could be a huge a-hole for all you guys know, but how have Goldman et al. already made up their mind when they didn't even invite me to a phone interview (at some places I applied for M&A, at some others for S&T)?
For some reason Consulting is no problem, McKinsey, Bain, BCG - aced all interviews and received offers (despite my lack of internship experience, which I always thought is so much more important in Consulting).
I certainly don't want to sound like a narcissist, but in my opinion I have a CV for Harvard and Wharton. So don't be gentle, I can take criticism! Thanks!
Well, logic would dictate that its your online application that isnt getting your phone interview. Show your CV and Cover letter and we'l have a look. But if you're getting offers what's the problem?
display your cv bro....need to see your experience before commenting.
did you take one of the MBB offers?
I think its the lack of internship experience. It was often the same situation at my target school in the US: come junior year, the folks who had internships in their sophomore year were the ones getting all the interviews. the rest of the spots went to athletes and ditzy (but hot) girls, with a few normal folks picking up the rest. its likely the same situation at your school.
consulting casts a big net, and at the undergraduate level, they interview lots of people first round and look strongly at good grades, whcih you have.
hope this helps. congrats on the offers also.
Did you network?
I see what you did there, you are one of the brothers from the Winkelvoss's! Did you also start Facebook?
Aside from that, dude you got an offer from Mckinsey and first year out will make 100k euro +. Why are you worried? unless you really wanted to work for an investment bank?
mck and 100k euros? I don't think so.
even without prev experience u shud get an interview atleast at fkin rbs o0. Did you try smaller second and third tier places(other than rbs)?
why don't i get 1st-round interviews??? totally unpredicted (Originally Posted: 09/23/2011)
I'm going through FT recruiting now but keep getting rejected for on-campus interviews!! I can't believe this because I have top-tier BB internships and my GPA is quite high at target. I was invited to almost all BB interviews before, so I didn't see this coming at all. Is economy that bad now? Or is it because of something else?
I am pissed that I have gotten zero interviews so far with alums pushing my resume....
Suck it up man... Life ain't fair so make due with what you can. Clearly there are people better that did a better job in getting noticed than you, so shove off and try to find something else for employment.
That said, go back to the drawing board and come up with a new game plan to do something in finance (like CorpFin at an F500 or Consulting) if you really want to be in finance.
How about you get off of your 'fuckin soapbox dick, the OP just asked why he/she may or may not be getting interviews as his/her resume seems like he/she may be deserving.. I'm getting sick of the 'holier than thou' attitude around here
Edit: Kind of hard to compete when you don't even get a chance to show up to the big dance...btw
Columbia College or SEAS?
Clearly he's in the college (econ/English). It's most likely due to lackluster FT recruiting this year, due in part to a weak economy, but also to historically high offer rates to summer interns.
could also be General Studies. :p
hey stop that you two!
i've never been rejected this much in my entire life.... i also submitted my applications to london offices (MS) and took online tests but got eventually rejected. wtf
^^ I agree with the soapbox part. It's getting annoying.
if by "soapbox" you mean certified users with jobs, then I'm going to have to disagree
Well that's not what I meant by soapbox... at all.
so...
edit: I would like to know more about specifics though. I'm gonna be kinda screwed if somebody from Columbia with a high gpa and top bb internships (implying at least 2) can't get a ft interview.
No, that's exactly what you meant.
You don't fucking "deserve" anything. If you don't have an adequate network and can't land first round interviews after "multiple top-tier BB internships" then you're either a damn fool or a socially inept buffoon. If this kid did so many internships why couldn't he land a single return offer?
2+2
Nope, I'm saying the B/S stop being a 'pussy' and 'compete' generic you're an idiot advice that's given without thinking...
Clearly this kid knows how to 'compete' he's: 1. At a target 2. Has BB internships 3. Has a high GPA so to say something stupid like you have to try hard or compete is not only not answering the OP's question, but also stupid and unhelpful
In that same vain, I'd expect a Certified User with a job (as you've pointed out) to be able to offer better insight after all they're the guys on the ground that should be able to give the inside scoop... instead of something 'fuckin dumb like compete offer some experience based view such as: at my firm we haven't been offering as many 1st rounds b/c of XYZ ...
Its not hard to be genuine as opposed to being a snob and for the guys breaking in that's what were're trying to use this forum for; seeking help and advice not only from peers, but those who have gone before
...
By soapbox I mean being a certified user with a job? Really? Or did I mean the immediate preaching that followed the original post?
Call me crazy but I think the last one makes more sense considering the first one could have been done while not being considered to be on a soapbox. If you really can't tell the difference between the two, that's pretty sad.
And I don't remember anybody saying that he "deserves" interviews. He's just confused as to why he can't get a first round interview and I am too. Of course I know jack shit about the rest of his profile which is why I'd like to know more.
Cool story brah... I'm standing by what I said and I'm done arguing
my guess is that 1. they all interviewed you last year and either rejected you or got rejected by you 2. you did not network enough and there are just too many qualified applicants who networked their asses off
just my 0.02 as a high school student LOL
wait you're telling me you got a return offer, rejected it straightaway, and now can't get any interviews?
lol
economy is really shit.
hey, i didn't say i rejected the FT offer.
zfzxzzza could be right. 1. they probably remember me 2. i met at least 5 columbians who interned at top-tier BBs this summer. competition is tough this year.
Top-tier BB means GS or MS
If you interned at one of those and received a return offer, there are no other banks to interview with...
Top-tier BB means GS or MS
If you interned at one of those and received a return offer, there are no other "banks" to interview with...
well, i didn't like my group very much this summer.
I just wanted to comment on the whole badass attitude that people have lately. It all started with that kid posting Life goes on post and everybody just went bananas. Advice on any topic is suck it up bitch you are not worth shit if you don't work hard. Stop bitching I was homeless for 25 years and now work at BB IBD GS so fuck you and your questions...
no you don't
Wow... Soap Box... I like it. I wasn't even going for that. You guys are all fucking retards and took the advice I gave in such a negative fucking light. Fucking 'ey you guys are all a bunch of fucking idiots here...
All I said was that Life's a bitch so prepare an alternative.
I will tell you this entirely... there are three things to surviving: 1) Expect the worst, hope for the best 2) Don't rely on one industry for which to make it in 3) Roll with the punches and never ever keep a plan for longer than it not working.
Really guys... I expected more from you all...
And when I soapbox, you will all know that I am soapboxing!
.
I am not privy to your entire set of circumstances so I cannot say for sure. But based on what you have wrote here so far, I can likely infer that your past experience raised a red flag in the minds of many bankers. If I saw a senior, who has had two BB IBD internships, return to the market for FT recruiting, I would reject him/her too.
1.) They probably assume that you didn't receive a return offer (since virtually no one who has interned at a top-tier BB and received a return offer, as the original poster have claimed, will go through FT recruiting at multiple other banks) 2.) Although loyalty isn't a defining characteristic of a typical investment banker, it is weird as hell to see a college student jump ship so much. A lot of my friends (and myself included) value integrity and commitment - we would be extremely turned off to see a young college grad jump from one bank to another and positioning to jump again. This perhaps raises the doubt in our minds that this young grad is committed to banking. What guarantees do we have that once we hire you, you won't leave in eight months to go to yet another bank or even consulting or non-profit?
My advice for you is to return to the top-tier BB you received a return offer from. You may not realize this but each and every one of us has a certain "brand equity." You have a personal reputation and you should do your best to maintain it at a high level. Finance is a small world and if you keep on ditching your summer teams, you are inevitably burning bridges. Furthermore, you built up so many positive relationships during the summer, why lose them and start as a new guy somewhere else? This is a absolutely terrible market. Even if you do get a FT role at another BB, you will be the first to be laid off since you will be new and don't have the existing relationships other returning interns have. Go back to your summer firm and try to enjoy the rest of your year. I hope you understand where I am coming from...
Wait, you said that "I didn't like my group" but then you say that they were "actually decent"? Which way is it?
The return rate at elite boutiques is much higher than at bulge brackets so that at places like Greenhill and Blackstone, there may only be 1-2 spots left for full-time recruiting, if that--everyone from that point has great resume and getting an interview comes down almost purely luck (and networking, which you failed to do).
dude, maybe you can try tell him what he's doing wrong in a polite way and offer up some real advice on how to improve, rather than coming in here and saying hes a fucking idiot. That's real helpful.
r u for real lol i didn't like my group but compared to the other groups it was decent. in other words, the other groups seemed to be worse than mine.
The kid needs to network, which he has failed at and actively chooses NOT to pursue because "all the banks come for OCR"
And now recruiting for most elite boutiques is wrapped up and he's screwed. At least he has a return offer with either GS or MS. I hope it's one and not the other because I would kill myself having to work next to a awkward and socially-inept kid like you for two years.
Originally coming from a non-target, you must be upset that I got two top-tier BB internships without networking. But your stupid comments and behaviors are not only annoying but pathetic even. And I'm not he, and it's not over yet. I can always pull some strings at the last minute. Also, I couldn't bear working next to a narrow-minded loser who's got permanent PMS.
Trust me, I got a better offer, had more fun in school, worked on better deals, and fucking loved my group. And it looks like I'm smarter than you too.
Now usually I don't like shitting on kids but in your case it's just too easy. From the sound of it, you obviously didn't like your group and then didn't interviews from OCR. You choose to IGNORE the easiest way to get those interviews but then come to WSO to whine? Come on dude, you're a clown.
alright, hillbilly, get a real life
http://www.vilificationtennis.com/wp-content/uploads/clown.jpg
Why is this Solidarity kid calling everyone kids, and based on what do you say you had more fun in school, etc? I see his comments everywhere on WSO and most of his comments are either baseless or irrelevant. You need to grow up, kid!
To OP: My friends who interned at GS (not just IB) this summer are not getting interviews either. What's your plan B?
The content on this website is going downhill because of people like "touchme" (begs the question). The guy applies to firms in a down market where only 1-2 spots may be open, but actively chooses not to network. There is no magic formula to bagging the gig you want, it's actually fairly formulaic and getting into finance requires little to no effort.
In an ideal world, I would love to have an educated discussion on current deals, macro trends, or investment theses, but instead, this forum gets inundated with the touchmes of the world, who don't have a clue, along with your stable of Canadian yahoos having "IVY VS QUEENS UNDERGRAD" pissing matches. It's a damn shame
@Solidarity In case you have forgotten, your posts from 2 years ago are pretty dumb too. If you do add no value to this website, you should abstain from posting aggressive comments that disturbs WSO. Looks like you are on here 24/7 dude. I wonder who's socially inept.
You mind elaborating on some of those SA positions?
...
you youngsters need to get it through your thick little skulls that finance is going to be a shit industry for the next 10 years at least, barring some activity in Asia.
guys in the older cohorts milked it for all its worth and moved on to exit ops. we'll be fine. you will not be fine, because there won't be as much deal flow, transaction premia and therefore JOBS for entry level monkeys, target credentials notwithstanding.
the industry is going to get regulated up the ass -- forget DF, think of Basel III and its successors. sorry, the freewheeling days of cheap capital and all the fun IBD and ST can do with it are OVER. don't let the fed's games in the money markets fool you. that's just a ploy to recapitalize the banks' busted bets, but i digress.
the best of the best will pick up analyst spots, but the rest of you need to recognize that you have to start looking at other things. for every exultation email on WSO about "yeah i got a job! and i was from a non target" there are scores of hundreds of silent losers who will go home empty handed this and many recruiting cycles in the future.
class of 2011 can't be blamed if they vectored their career in 2007, but classes of 2012 and beyond have only their own dumbasses to blame for not seeing the writing on the wall.
can i interest anyone in being a defense/aerospace engineer for mcdonnell douglas? oh, sorry, i went to bed in 1985 and didn't get up until 26 years later. every engineer who bet his career on that horse lost big after 1990.
we make these bets every day. we make big bets that determine the course of our lives. at least the young ones are young enough to change direction. if you have any sense, you would.
I wish I could turn time back to my freshman year in college...i wish this every single fucking day
Considering most high school students start thinking about careers and colleges junior year of hs and apply early in their senior year, should we have predicted the economy would go to shit a month after we started college? How many high school juniors/seniors do you know that have an thorough understanding of what is going on in the economy and can make a decision to determine their career at age 16/17?
OP,
If you indeed are at a target school, have a solid BB summer internship under your belt and have a high GPA, there shouldn't be any reason why you wouldn't get ANY interviews (unless you only applied to the top 10 banks expecting to get a job at one of those... never a good idea). A couple questions -
I agree with what Vancouver wrote a while ago. A college student having two BB internships and interviewing for a FT position is suspicious. Probably I should have mentioned that I've received a return offer in my cover letter but most banks don't request one for OCR... and I didn't say this in my original post that my sophomore year internship was in London.
Having said that, things turn out well, and I've now had 4 interviews with 3 BBs and with an elite boutique, all in NYC.
^ i am talking about college students.
I graduated hs in May '08, so I am class of 2012. I began thinking of what I should do freshman/sophomore year of high school, but I'm assuming most kids seriously start thinking about career paths their last two years.
The pessimism on this forum amazes me sometimes. Finance jobs don't just revolve around top tier banks along with S&T and IB.
You're in an IB forum... what did you expect?
Hi
Thanks for the insight. I look forward to reading more about your businesses!
This link below can show more info, you can find them at: http://interviewquestionsandanswers.biz/texas-instruments-interview-que…
Non Target grad struggling to get interviews. Help please! (Originally Posted: 12/31/2013)
Hey guys,
If you'd be so kind to review my resume, it'd be much appreciated.
Best,
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