Comments (106)

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  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jan 11, 2022 - 5:59pm

Chicago is, for the most part, awesome. Yeah, you get your occasional crime-wave, but those are generally limited to certain areas. And yeah, weather sucks for 3 months in winter. But can't beat summers/fall in ChiTown, tons of fun crap to do, great-looking city, much cleaner than NY and tons of fun bars/outdoor restaurants/co-ed sports.  And yeah, you can get awesome new apartments in Chicago with great amenities for 50-60% of comparable NYC apartments.

Of course, lot more finance opportunities in NY (though there are plenty in Chi... just not nearly on same scale). And you only get the NY energy in NY. Some people hate it, some people love it. Personally, I love NY energy... for about a weekend, maybe a week. Then I prefer living in a much more comfortable, clean city, like Chicago.  And oh yeah, as has been said on this site, purely anecdotal, but finance people just seem to be nicer in Chicago. Not as many hardo type A's. 

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jan 12, 2022 - 11:38am

Well, I don't know what you thought it was. There's tons of great opportunities in MM banking:  Blair, Guggenheim, Baird, Lazard, Lincoln, HW.  These are firms that will get you very good MM PE exits, and most pay above Street (pay in Chicago is same as in NYC). Also, decent BB presence, including Goldman, JPM, Barclays, Credit Suisse... obviously, these offices are much smaller than NY offices, as are EB offices like Moelis, PWP and Greenhill (as mentioned above, Guggenheim has office here, it's new, but it's growing rapidly -- around 50 bankers, and deal flow/culture is rumored to be great). 

On PE side, some very strong MM PE shops, including Madison Dearborn, GTCR, Vista Equity, Waud, and Linden. These are very strong shops, pay well (275-350,000 for first year associate?). That said, exponentially more PE shops in NYC

Jan 12, 2022 - 11:42am

This is about what I thought it was, seems like there's ample opportunity. I was really wondering if a career in Chicago would significantly hamstring you vs NY but it doesn't seem as though that is the case. To what extent do you think time in Chicago would pigeon-hole someone?

Controversial
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jan 12, 2022 - 1:33pm

Look, living in Chicago clearly limits your opportunities vs. living in NYC. And if you want to lateral to NYC, it's going to make the process more difficult and more annoying. Is it doable?  Absolutely. And if you're intent on moving to a firm in NYC, you can definitely make it happen (just tougher to get away for interviews... but in an era of Zoom with many first rounds being virtual, not nearly as difficult probably as it used to be). I'd say the main finance opportunity that will be the biggest uphill battle for someone from Chicago would be MF PE.  (because Chicago lends itself to MM IB, which I believe MF PEs don't look kindly to.

But in Chicago, are there plenty of IB analysts making 200-250K, associates making 350, VPs making 700 and MDs making 2-8 million dollars a year?  Absolutely. In other words, you will have a fantastic opportunity to live an extremely comfortable life and amass millions/low tens of million dollars in net worth through Chicago finance. If, however, your goal is to be a Master of the Universe and be worth 50 mil by the time you're 50 years old? Definitely better chance of doing that in NYC.   

Jan 13, 2022 - 12:29pm

To your point about hardo type A's, I feel like Chicago is the best combination of the Midwest with East Coast city culture. They're more chill but still have all the great amenities of any coastal city: all 4 major sports (and the Blackhawks are actually a decent team), great museums and performance spaces, lakeside and outdoor activities when it's not 30 below, great food (just don't call it pizza), etc. etc. 

Funniest
  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Jan 12, 2022 - 11:27am

Yeah Chicago is the best!

Please have more people move to Chicago from NYC so rent goes down for me

  • Associate 3 in Consulting
Jan 12, 2022 - 11:37am

Do Chi banks specialize in any industries, or is it just smaller scale on everything?

Jan 13, 2022 - 11:47am

I've heard of some RX shops being out there as well, are those specifically tailored to Industrials RX or do they function as an NYC satellite office where they get to work on everything just on a smaller scale? To what extent are Chicago offices like this their own thing vs. feeding on ny's scraps?

Jan 15, 2022 - 1:53pm

Depends if satellite office (can be broader coverage, but less deep & work with NYC), focus office (leading in a couple industry due to specific MDs), MM/Boutique firm (Midwest focus, strong in the below, but can include others), or MM HQ of larger firm (from acquired MM firm, poached team, etc). 

Recruiting Chicago/Midwest this fall Industrials was pretty consistently represented. Healthcare, Consumer Retail, and increasingly Business/Tech services also common.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Jan 12, 2022 - 3:08pm

I'm at a bank with a big Chicago presence (I'm in NY) and kind of want to transfer. If you're at a good MM they pay the same across branches, so even if you're making slightly less then an EB in NYC (Blair/HL/etc pay 180k all-in, maybe more with base raises), you're standard of living is so much better. Every analyst I know in Chi lives alone, has water views, big apartment, etc and they all pay less then I do for a tiny shoe box with roommates in NY.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Jan 12, 2022 - 6:08pm

Gold Coast specifically maybe if you're no longer in your 20s, but the near north side in general is much better than the loop. 

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Jan 12, 2022 - 6:07pm

At an NYC RX group and would totally move to Chicago, but my bank doesn't have RX there. Only Lazard, HL, Greenhill, (and maybe Guggenheim) do, so I'd have to lateral to one of those 3/4. Lmk if I missed any. 
 

Baird announced a new RX group led by a former Gugg MD, but it's based out of NY. Not sure if they are even taking analysts yet. 
 

I guess New York is the center of all finance opportunity. I'm not sure if I want to do buy side or A2A so staying in nyc until at least the associate level would be the move anyway. 

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Jan 12, 2022 - 9:13pm

Certainly not a hidden gem it's like the third largest city in the U.S. lol. Agreed on the industrials banking point but I've lived for a year in the nicer part of Chi and have never had any rough experiences, neither have my friends. If you're a banker you won't be anywhere near the southern part of Chi where crime is most prevalent. 

Jan 13, 2022 - 6:21pm

I have lived in Lincoln Park for years as a young woman and the crime here is not even close to bad, LP, Wrigley, Lakeview are very solid and safe neighborhoods full of young families and adults

  • Analyst 2 in HF - Event
Jan 12, 2022 - 10:05pm

Because the winters are harsh and the crime is high. Personally not a fan of NYC either though

  • Analyst 2 in AM - Equities
Jan 12, 2022 - 10:37pm

As someone born and raised in the LES, people overestimate how much of NYCs population is actually moving in from other parts of the United States. I would estimate that out of the 8 million people in NYC proper, around 7-7.4 million people have their roots in NYC (e.g born and raised or if they immigrated to the United States, they moved to Queens and Brooklyn as many Asian immigrants tend too) with the remaining population those from other parts of the United States. My block has barely changed in terms of residents/families since I grew up and most of the transplants in the LES and other parts of Manhattan tend to cluster together. That is why it may seem that most people in NYC are not from there when it is massively the opposite. Once you lay your roots somewhere, it is very hard to leave especially in a place like NYC. Regardless of the outgoing "migrations", I personally think NYC is not going to change much for people who have their roots here vs those who are transplants and may not like the idea of living their lives without a yard or a private pool etc. 

Jan 13, 2022 - 9:18am

I'm guessing this is because everyone who's only "passing through" nyc consistently inhabits the same handful of neighborhoods so to them, everyone in nyc seems like a transplant when really its a small group of mid-town adjacent areas that have high turnover and everywhere else doesnt

  • Analyst 2 in AM - Equities
Jan 13, 2022 - 11:38am

Not even neighborhoods like "block clusters" in popular neighborhoods. Know plenty of people who grew up in Murray Hill who have seen a little bit of turnover because that area obviously has decent housing and proximity to jobs. 

Yeah exactly, I think the amount of transplants/people without their roots in NYC is overshot significantly by people because their friends/their block mostly tends to be similar people. If you start to frequent neighborhoods on the west side, UWS, UES etc. you will see that a heavy heavy majority of these folks have lived in NYC for a while and the transplant population is low. But that is the beauty of NYC, it changes significantly block by block. 

  • Analyst 2 in AM - Equities
Jan 13, 2022 - 4:39pm

Lol I very clearly said 1)this is an estimate and 2) I included people who immigrated to NYC from other countries as part of the population that has their roots in NYC.

Jan 13, 2022 - 2:51am

Depends on who you are. If you are an immigrant with an accent, in Chicago girls will be turned off by you. In NYC it's not an issue. On opposite, there are so many immigrants or 2nd generation citizens, so people will be interested in you cause they have something in common / can relate. Plus, in NYC girls put out. And girls are just more fun in NYC. In Chicago girls are boring and just want to have family and kids and all this boring shit. In NYC girls want to party and have fun and explore life and themselves. So, that's why.

It's all about women, at the end of the day. Places where girls put out (NYC, LA, Boston, SF) are expensive cause men want to be there, so they bid up the market price of real estate. Places where girls are boring and don't put out and instead want family and kids (like Midwest, rural areas, etc.) are cheap cause men don't wanna live there, so low demand for real estate, and prices are low.

Jan 13, 2022 - 12:26pm

Yeah, that's my theory and I stay behind it.

And a lot of second generation immigrants are actually slutty, or the ones who moved here as a kid, cause their parents are usually strict, so they grow up suppressed, and then like to be chocked out and fucked in the ass.

Yeah, Miami as well, missed it.

Jan 13, 2022 - 6:21am

agree with this to some degree, i think there are way more/better quality/ more interesting girls in nyc vs chicago and that drives my desire to be there.

not sure if i would couch this on sluttiness lol, to me more like interesting personalities vs pretty bland midwestern types but maybe its the same thing

Jan 13, 2022 - 2:59am

Crime in Chicago is a real issue, but nothing that NYC hasn't seen and often over played by the conservative Fox News media, just as CNN has other agendas. It's great to point out crime in Chicago when you are a conservative and shit on the Illinois Governor, backwards pension strategy and Mayor Lightfoot, but the reality is far from what is portrayed. If you are a finance bro in the West Village, does it really impact your safwty that the gangsters in the Bronx are killing each other with some poor people getting caught in the crossfires or that in the hood of Brooklyn, the remnants of the Tekashi 6ix9ine fall out with the NineTrey Bloods will impact your weekend plans? Do you really need to hit up that Dominican food spot in the south bronx or can you just order uber eats from somewhere else? Same thing in Chicago. Yeah it's sad, but crime in the south side of Chicago literally does not impact most of my friends whatsoever. Crime down there could be abolished, and most of my friends in River North, Wicker Park, Wrigleyville would not be able to tell the difference. 

One thing about the hidden costs of living in Chicago are the sales taxes which are absolutely bananas. State tax, Cook County tax, Chicago city tax, etc. Parked my car once at a cheap spot near Ohare even though I wasn't flying anywhere, and then caught an Uber. Got hit with a "Airport exit tax." 

That said, I think the NerdWallet and BankRate cost of living calculators are surprisingly correct. 

In the dating scene, finance bros have a presence, but not to the degree and number as New York (which is favorable if you're a guy). Girls literally drool at the thought of dating a banker or another well paid guy, and I saw a couple funny (but real) tik toks and reddit threads about Chicago girls trying to figure out how to date and "investment banking analyst" in Chicago lmao. 

Can count in my hand 5 friends making sub $200k all in who legitimately share apartment floors with younger NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB players. This is unheard of in NYC

We're not lawyers. We're investment bankers. We didn't go to Harvard. We Went to Wharton!
  • 9
Jan 13, 2022 - 9:22am

I've heard the hidden taxes (non-income or property related taxes) are very real so its interesting to hear your perspective. Sounds like the pool of ambitious/successful people in Chicago is smaller than nyc so the threshold of being "top of the pole" is lower, which of course comes at the expense of being in a smaller city with less things to do and people to meet/date. However, I have a hard time believing that in Chicago you can't check out new bars, try new food places and do new things on a consistent basis

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jan 13, 2022 - 10:02am

Trust me, having enough bars and restaurants to go to to meet young people is not a problem in Chicago. I mean, if you need bars that are open until 4 am., yes, go to NYC, but there are tons of fun bars (and even some of those trendy  "speakeasy" places) that you'll find in Chicago.   

Jan 13, 2022 - 12:13pm

I heavily disagree, and believe the data backs my perspective. I am not some outsider who moved to Chicago for a year or two, but someone who has lived in Chicago all my life. I love this city, have no strong political leaning, so I view myself as pretty unbiased, but things are pretty bad right now. 

Students near U Chicago are getting robbed and gunned down in the middle of the day. I am talking like 2 pm on a weekday. Yes, this is on the south side, so lets take another example. Women are being robbed leaving a restaurant on the north side after brunch, at 2 pm on a Saturday. 

I dont let increasing crime rates affect how I live my life but believe it is important to acknowledge trends driven by data. Many users reading your post arent from Chicago, and aren't conscious of what it is like to live here. Yes, it is still generally pretty safe. And yes, living on the north side will generally mean you dont have to be concerned with crime on a day-to-day basis. However, crime is still very real. I live in a neighborhood of G wagons and multi-million dollar houses and there are robberies and car jackings on my street. Our neighbors have hired private security to do laps during the evenings and to patrol our alleys. 

I live in Lakeview (on the north side and one of the more desirable areas) and car jackings and violent crime has increased 25% within the past year. Stating the only people complaining about crime are conservatives frustrated with the current political climate is a dramatic over exaggeration. Additionally, the current political decisions being made have never been worse, lessening sentences for severe crimes. In NYC and Chicago alike, crime is certainly at a 10 year high.

Dont believe me? Look at crime rates in the high end areas of Chicago. Lakeview, Lincoln Park, Gold Coast, River North, etc. I'm going to link a few articles because data doesnt lie. 

Article 1

Article 2

Article 3

Article 4

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jan 13, 2022 - 12:30pm

I'm not saying there aren't flare-ups of robberies/a shooting in a good area -- there are. But being with my friends in these neighborhoods, out at night, it's not like we or people around us walk around on a regular basis seeing/expecting/anticipating an event. That's just not the vibe. People are out, having fun. I mean, if you're out at midnight every night for a whole year? Yes, odds are good something will happen. And you always have to be alert. And those articles that you posted are legit -- but that was my point. There was a bad 10 day stretch in October in River North of robberies and I think one shooting, but then you don't hear anything for the next 3 months. It's a city. A city that's more dangerous than it should be? Yes. But at least from the experience of people I know, if you live in Lincoln Park, River North, Streeterville, Old Town, Gold Coast or Wrigleyville, the vast majority of people are going to feel safe the vast majority of the time.  

  • Business School in IB - Gen
Jan 13, 2022 - 12:57pm

This is spot on. I moved away from Chicago summer 2021 after several years in the city and I always worried about crime more than when in other cities, but it's gotten much much worse. I lived in River North and had multiple close calls of being robbed/mugged in the past two years in my neighborhood. I have a female friend who was robbed and assaulted on the street in one of the nicest areas of the city in Streeterville. In the Loop, I saw a robbery take place while out to brunch. All of these were during reasonable hours, 10am-6pm or so, not middle of the night.

Day to day, no I didn't live in fear especially but was way more cognizant of my surroundings and crime. It's not a reason to stop living in Chicago, but I can say that in the nicer areas of NYC (UWS, Chelsea, West Village, etc.) I have felt noticeably safer than in the nicest areas of downtown Chicago (Loop, River North, West Loop, etc.). Haven't visited the nicer neighborhoods like Wicker Park and Lakeview quite as much and felt safer generally than downtown when I did visit.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Jan 14, 2022 - 1:53pm

I'm from the Chicago area; didn't look at your links yet, but the whole situation in August 2020 with people looting the mag mile freaked me out. I used to go there all the time as a kid, and seeing the footage of 100+ scrambling through the streets smashing and grabbing for NO REASON freaked me out. All the while, Lori Lightfoot barricaded herself in her residence with dozens of cops.

Then when a North Side Alderman presses her about additional security, she calls him full of shit. Then she gets mad at him for leaking the audio. Then when people don't buy that, she gets pissed and says people only care 99% because she's Black. She has absolutely zero PR skills. It's like she thinks of what exactly not to say and then says it anyway. She's not all to blame. State Attorney Kim Fox doesn't give a fuck about prosecuting. God damn. New York is making a huge mistake with Alvin Bragg barely prosecuting all but the most serious crimes. People in San Francisco are all in shock and awe wondering why there's been so much coordinated looting after they voted to raise the price floor for what counts as felony shoplifting. 

People hated on Rahm Emanuel, and it was mostly valid, but he still got shit done. Chicago corruption used to get shit done. 

When I was a kid, I saw a group of cops all pointing their guns at someone once right outside of the Watertower place. 

Jan 13, 2022 - 11:22am

I've never lived/worked in NYC, but I have lived and worked in many other major cities internationally and in Chicago. The reality is that you can only work one job at a time. Having an abundance of different banks or PE firms is only useful if you plan on changing roles every 2-3 years, which ends for most people in their late 20s in this industry. So I would not place a lot of emphasis on the quantity of opportunities. In terms of the types of opportunities, they are generally different. As mentioned above, Chicago is very well known for industrials, but you can build a very strong career in other sectors as well. Having moved around a lot and spent 15 years in banking / PE, I can tell you that the only people who care about work experience in NYC are people in NYC. Almost no one from Chicago, Boston, LA, SF will discount your experience for being outside of NYC -- only those in NYC will. So if you don't have aspirations to work in NYC long term, don't worry about limiting your future options.

In terms of daily life, it is true that NYC has more options than Chicago. But let's be realistic, as an investment banking analyst and many junior PE roles, you only have time to go out on Friday and Saturday nights. Chicago has more than enough restaurant options to ensure you can eat at a different place every time for years. Having 2000 options is not materially better than 200 (numbers made up), so don't place too much weight on this. Same goes for nightlife options. And crime isn't a big deal in most parts of Chicago, and definitely not a big deal in Boston. Just stay out of the South side of Chicago. I frequently walked home alone at 2:00am or 3:00am and never felt unsafe. 

In terms of women, the above comment about all mid-west girls looking to get married and have a family is not true. There are plenty of young, attractive girls looking to go out and have a good time. Dating is also easier because you don't need to drop $300 on a meal or $1000 on bottle service to impress a girl - just take her to a cubs game. Maybe I'm old and jaded but I think the best dates are with a fun girl who is a 7/10 rather than a smokeshow who thinks she walks on water. I know there are lots of guys who party hard into their 30s but pretty much everyone I know lost their party mentality by their early 30s, including those who were IB analysts in NYC.

Lastly, the cost. The savings are real. Living in a newly refurbished 1000sq ft apartment in the loop with a view of the river/lake and full amenities for $2000 was amazing. You just cannot beat Chicago in terms of real estate costs in a major city. 

CompBanker

  • 14
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jan 13, 2022 - 3:39pm

Neh... June, July, Aug, Sept, Oct are pretty great... November not bad at all, and first half of December usually not too bad... Dec. 15- March 15 suck... end of March through May are disappointing (but not dreadful) bc you think weather's going to be pretty good, but it's not.  So 3 horrible months, 3 disappointing ones, 5 pretty great ones and... shit, leaves me with one more. But even this week in Chicago -- got some mid-30's. That said, no doubt about it, Chicago weather in winter is worse than NYC's. 

  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Jan 13, 2022 - 4:16pm

Yea Chicago is great you guys should all move there. I really don't think there's a better combination of quality of life, hot dogs and finance opportunities anywhere. You should definitely move there, not New York. Seriously, New York is bad, there is nothing there that isn't in Chicago. Bars? Plenty! Blond women? At least 5 or 6. Chicago is all about day drinking and getting married to your Big 10 college girlfriend, is there anything better? You can hang out with the same crew - awesome! Seriously, so many other cities to move to besides New York, maybe Charlotte, not New York tho, don't move there. New York only has okay hot dogs. Chicago - the BEST. 

Seriously don't move here. 

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jan 13, 2022 - 5:47pm

It's funny, I don't think too many people on this thread are trashing NYC or heavily touting Chicago -- just kind of offering what some people might find as favorable reasons to consider working/living in Chicago.   

Jan 14, 2022 - 9:24am

Excellent perspective, great comparison. Both excellent schools, one just slightly better than the other. Both will get you where you want to go one just has a little more resources to do so. Also, love the username. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Restr
Jan 14, 2022 - 6:33am

Living in Chicago currently. You can definitely get great value for your time and money. Cheap COL and street and above street pay while working a bit less hours than in NY. everybody in my group is from the midwest and it definitely shows in the culture. We're behind the NY culture shift towards HR-y bullshit which imo is great, but at the price of the groups here being much much less diverse and I've heard some legitimately whack shit from seniors about intentions to keep it that way. But I definitely think we're on the track of dodging all the ideological extremity of the coasts and striking an awesome balance with time. 

There's a lot of uncertainty about the future of the city because of decreasing population, mismanaged finances, politics, and crime. Crime might not be ubiquitous, but it has definitely touched more people this year than usual and that's created ripples of paranoia and unease throughout the city. For now though IB in Chicago is a great bang for your dollar and hour worked.  

Jan 14, 2022 - 9:45am

In all honesty, the Duke vs Harvard comparison is pretty spot on, I would elaborate its more Harvard full sticker vs Duke half ride scholarship. Chicago is about 85% of NYC at 50% of the price. That being said, the extra 15% comes from just having almost triple the people and as such, more options. That comes in the form of networking, opportunities, more fun bars, great restaurants, etc. Chicago has some of the most options in its own right, but NYC just has more. Both will get you to where you want to go, one is just easier depending on your goals.

  • 2
  • 5
Jan 14, 2022 - 11:29am

Something to keep in mind for the endless Chicago vs. New York debate. You can only do one thing at a time. One dinner a night, one (or two) clubs a night, one museum or Broadway show a month, etc. This is not comparing Dayton Ohio to New York. New York has 67 Michelin star restaurants; Chicago has 21. Who cares? You're never gonna make it to all of them. NY has 9 pro sports teams, Chicago still has 5 which means there is a game on every night and no shortage of tailgates/bars/playoffs to attend. Of course NY has more of everything, but you'll never run out of things to do in either city.

"I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people."

  • 8
Jan 14, 2022 - 11:54am

Having lived in Chicago (~5 yrs) and NY (~2 yrs) I think people generally underestimate how terrible Chicago weather is. It's not ~3 month. It's from Nov to May. Yea you get a few good days here and there. But it's miserable and depressing for the most part. and when it's bad, it's just unbelievable. You'd feel the wind cutting straight into your bone. I still have PTSD from the -50 wind chill...

just for that reason alone, Chicago is basically unlivable. Another thing I took huge issue with is how flat Chicago and the surrounding area is. There's no mountain. No scenic drives, etc. It's just Chicago, and then ~1,000 miles of nothingness. You can't even go ski cuz there aren't good mountains. You get a few midwestern cities nearby but they're just not that fun to visit. No offense but who wants to visit Indianapolis for a second time? Anywhere you go you have to fly. 

I moved away and did not look back. I still love the city and want to visit during the summer. But no i can't live there. 

Array
  • 1
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jan 15, 2022 - 5:52pm

How did you find the actual banking/banking culture going from Chicago to NYC? Clearly it hasn't been a negative change for you, or not negative enough that you wish you were back in Chicago... but if someone can tolerate the Chicago winters/flat surroundings, which you still recommend a move?  

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Jan 15, 2022 - 9:01pm

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  • Consultant in Consulting
Jan 19, 2022 - 1:42am

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