Why WSO members are obsessed with prestige

Prestige is probably the single most used buzzword in this online community and I would like to get everyones thoughts on why prestige matters so much to begin with.

Whether its where you go/went to school, what area you live in, what you wear, where you work company, what division, or even as detailed as what group/desk, the bottom line is people are CONSTANTLY asking and talking about the pretige and which has more. and i am posing the question WHY? Does it really matter? Why?

With that I dedicate this thread to those that are obessed with prestige.

 

People inherently want to be valued by others, part of this comes from one's job ipso facto, if one works at e.g. Goldman Sachs, which everyone fawns over and many regard as the world's most successful i-bank, then one can apparently increases one's self-worth as they are perceived by others as being more successful...somehow

Same goes for Blackstone, TPG, KKR, top HF's etc. etc.

Or it could just be insecurity

 
Best Response

I do not necessarily think chasing prestige is a bad thing, I just disagree with the approach people typically take to attain it. Prestige isn't working for Goldman Sachs -- the company does not define the person. Upon receiving an offer to work for GS, you are no more capable than you were the day before.

That said, there are far better ways to obtain real prestige. I strive to be a fantastic analyst and I attempt to do my job to the best of my ability. I do this not for the bigger bonus, but for the respect for those around me and for the sense of accomplishment (IE: self worth) that it brings. I'll admit it, I want to walk out of my bank after two years and have them think, "Damn, there goes a hell of an analyst." That is a true accomplishment in my eyes.

It is easy to see how one can look in on the industry and feel that money and prestige are the most important things in life and anyone that says otherwise just wasn't good enough. I think these individuals are in for a bit of a surprise when they are neck deep in their analyst tenure and thinking, "I'd pay anything to go home right now."

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

It's not WSO, it's people who want to do banking in general... At my school for example (a feeder for banks in London), EVERYBODY will be after the best firms. No one wants anything less than bulge bracket; and yet in this market a lot of them have to content with less, and end up saying: "I don't care about prestige, and why should anyone care about it?" Now that the year has ended you know exactly what everybody's true worth is, you have the one that have ended with gigs at Goldman Sachs; those will walk with an aura of merit around their head, and everybody will murmur in their back "do you know? They got in at GS, I hope they will eat with me at lunch time". And you have the rest of the crowd, they will keep quiet in their corner, or will try to justify that Macquarie really is the best in the trading of newts. Yet, they still feel that they have miserably failed with their life. In every club they will go, when they will hand in their card to pick up some girls, the ladies know that they are not GS material. Those lesser bankers turn to stealing or try to do stupid shit like Kerviel to gain this prestige they were not able to gain by working at GS.

Or if you have half a brain you will realize that prestige does not come with what firm you start at as an analyst; but it comes with who you have become, and what you have done with your life at age 35. Are you one of those dirty fat balding 35 year old banker trying to get a boner by stuffing dollar bills in a girl's bikini? Because working for GS or working for Macquarie will still give you absolutely no prestige.


Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend

 
trade4size:
the bottom line is people are CONSTANTLY asking and talking about the pretige and which has more. and i am posing the question WHY? Does it really matter?

Next, on Housewives of New York City, why all the women chase prestige!!!

 
F9 - Update:
Disjoint, can you show me how to become one of those dirty old men?

Oh! I can definitely help! I went to the doctor recently and asked him what I needed to do so as to be a dirty old man. Cut back on exercising, actually don't exercise at all. THe nasty junk food habit should be taken up more than twice a month. When I see a girl that's about half my age I wistle at her. I also don't go to a top brand in banking name, so I really don't have to worry about prestige ;)


Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend

 

Well trade4size, you said exactly the same thing as I did yesterday - wherever you go, people are obsessed with status, uni reputation, bank reputation, family background, clothing, places you go to, calibre.. all things prestige.

Well it's only natural human behaviour for this to matter surely - firstly a drive to be the best can be reflected by being accepted by the most prestigious places, secondly if people need their 'worth' validating they can have it by impressing this way.

Money is a taboo subject, you can never really show off how much you make (unless you're an entrepreneur selling off a company etc), hence I'd rather have the glory of working for Goldmans M&A or Blackstone PE, than Dresdner or whatever even if hypothetically it was for more money.

Of course in the grand scheme of things prestige "doesn't matter", but then again nor does anything if you want to be all philosophical. In this world to differentiate yourself and not be a clone, higher prestige can mean more to impress, and like I said top people wouldn't bother so much with McKinsey, Blackstone and GS if prestige never mattered.

It's odd that I care so much about prestige, when I actually hate praise, when people say to me "Wow you're amazing, you've achieved so much, you're so talented" etc etc I feel really embarrassed and uncomfortable. Maybe I want it just for personal satisfaction that I've got as high up as I can.

 
badam:
Well trade4size, you said exactly the same thing as I did yesterday - wherever you go, people are obsessed with status, uni reputation, bank reputation, family background, clothing, places you go to, calibre.. all things prestige.

Well it's only natural human behaviour for this to matter surely - firstly a drive to be the best can be reflected by being accepted by the most prestigious places, secondly if people need their 'worth' validating they can have it by impressing this way.

Money is a taboo subject, you can never really show off how much you make (unless you're an entrepreneur selling off a company etc), hence I'd rather have the glory of working for Goldmans M&A or Blackstone PE, than Dresdner or whatever even if hypothetically it was for more money.

Of course in the grand scheme of things prestige "doesn't matter", but then again nor does anything if you want to be all philosophical. In this world to differentiate yourself and not be a clone, higher prestige can mean more to impress, and like I said top people wouldn't bother so much with McKinsey, Blackstone and GS if prestige never mattered.

It's odd that I care so much about prestige, when I actually hate praise, when people say to me "Wow you're amazing, you've achieved so much, you're so talented" etc etc I feel really embarrassed and uncomfortable. Maybe I want it just for personal satisfaction that I've got as high up as I can.

Have some class - don't knock Dresdner, solid i-bank despite how it's viewed

 
badam:
Well trade4size, you said exactly the same thing as I did yesterday - wherever you go, people are obsessed with status, uni reputation, bank reputation, family background, clothing, places you go to, calibre.. all things prestige.

Well it's only natural human behaviour for this to matter surely - firstly a drive to be the best can be reflected by being accepted by the most prestigious places, secondly if people need their 'worth' validating they can have it by impressing this way.

Money is a taboo subject, you can never really show off how much you make (unless you're an entrepreneur selling off a company etc), hence I'd rather have the glory of working for Goldmans M&A or Blackstone PE, than Dresdner or whatever even if hypothetically it was for more money.

Of course in the grand scheme of things prestige "doesn't matter", but then again nor does anything if you want to be all philosophical. In this world to differentiate yourself and not be a clone, higher prestige can mean more to impress, and like I said top people wouldn't bother so much with McKinsey, Blackstone and GS if prestige never mattered.

It's odd that I care so much about prestige, when I actually hate praise, when people say to me "Wow you're amazing, you've achieved so much, you're so talented" etc etc I feel really embarrassed and uncomfortable. Maybe I want it just for personal satisfaction that I've got as high up as I can.

You sound like a person who will never make it to Goldman M&A or Blackstone PE.

Please get some humility and don't go around putting down others.

Also, I don't believe that last sentence for a second.

 

Furthermore, surely the majority of bankers are guilty of this when it comes to choosing a desk? I know a ton of guys who choose M&A not because they find the work more exciting, not because they really really want to work 110 hours a week, but because it comes across as more impressive. Similarly on the S&T side, everyone rushes towards derivatives, even if they might enjoy / be better at cash, because one is considered prestigious and the other relatively inferior (intellectually, not financially).

 

Have you worked there badam?

No, thought not, so keep your uninformed opinions to yourself mate.

There are many "worse" i-banks out there than DK.

And getting into a 'tier-1' bank is not always about how good you are, I think most people on this board would agree that luck plays a large part in the hiring process, especially at graduate level.

I know people from supposedly tier-1 firms who have the intelligence, personality and nous of a can of Coca-Cola.

Stop being so prestige obsessed for chrissake

 
joefish:
Have you worked there badam?

No, thought not, so keep your uninformed opinions to yourself mate.

There are many "worse" i-banks out there than DK.

And getting into a 'tier-1' bank is not always about how good you are, I think most people on this board would agree that luck plays a large part in the hiring process, especially at graduate level.

I know people from supposedly tier-1 firms who have the intelligence, personality and nous of a can of Coca-Cola.

Stop being so prestige obsessed for chrissake

It is so funny on this site, how bitter and angry people who weren't good enough to get into a top bank are about not getting in, bitter that seemingly worse people got in because they were from a target uni etc. The bottom line is, if you'd got an offer from Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan etc, there's no way you'd have picked Dresdner over it, you're at Dresdner because you weren't good enough for a top 10 bank.
 
badam:
It is so funny on this site, how bitter and angry people who weren't good enough to get into a top bank are about not getting in, bitter that seemingly worse people got in because they were from a target uni etc. The bottom line is, if you'd got an offer from Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan etc, there's no way you'd have picked Dresdner over it, you're at Dresdner because you weren't good enough for a top 10 bank.

Sure, assuming that people are only driven by perceived prestige. Otherwise, your statement is absolutely false.

 

Badam, you're an idiot, I don't work at DK but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit here and listen to childish a-holes like you slag them off :P

And I know several people who have picked DK over Lazard, GS, Lehman, Deutsche, Citigroup, Rothschild, Gleacher.....so you are clearly talking out of your (probably rather flabby) ass

Nuff said

p.s. - I be rockin' a target university foo'!

 

badam now you decide you want to bash cash trading as intellectually inferior. You are joke and have no clue what you are talking about. Had you any real professional experience and not just reading internet forums you would be able to gain an appreciate for how ALL trading should be respected because those individuals that work on a particular desk have a certain skill set. Can someone please tell me what is wrong with DB HR for hiring this tool?

You should hang out with soulsearching you guys are a lot alike, maybe you guys can ooh and ahh over the league tables some more instead of concentrating on doing a kick ass job this summer.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 
trade4size:
badam now you decide you want to bash cash trading as intellectually inferior. You are joke and have no clue what you are talking about. Had you any real professional experience and not just reading internet forums you would be able to gain an appreciate for how ALL trading should be respected because those individuals that work on a particular desk have a certain skill set.

Having had 6 years of professional experience (I assume about 4 more than you) in a top bank, I know for certain that cash is without a doubt seen as inferior to derivatives. Of course they have different skillsets and your quiet French derivs trader would struggle to sell single stock equities like a jock from Duke, but intellectual / mathematical skill is seen as a much higher asset than "communication skills". Don't kid yourself that they're all considered as good as one another and all cogs turning the wheel, if that's the case why does everyone rush to the most complex derivs whilst vanilla/cash gets the people who came bottom in the training exams.

 
badam:
joefish:
DB will realise their mistake when they have to spend 10 fun-filled weeks with this guy
10 weeks? Look at my birthdate, I have been hired in at VP level from another tier-1 bank. Am just disappointed when I tell people they think I've taken a step down, that DB is for inferior calibre people, when it's in fact #1 worldwide for what I'll be doing.

Look at your birth date? The LAST thing I want is to know anything more about you badam.

I didn't realise they bestowed the title of VP on toilet cleaners (must be a German thing?), you've really exceeded all expectations on this one, good luck in the new role! I'll make sure to take an extra massive sh*t if I'm ever unlucky enough to be in the same building as you.

p.s. I f*cking hope the VPs in my team this summer are nothing like you....please God

 

More like your VP of Dueche Bags. Shouldnt you be trading those highly intellectual FI instruments instead of BSing on WSO?

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 

SOLDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD that your a VP FOR SIZEEEEE.

That post basically says your nothing but a chronic bullshitter.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 

August 6th, 1985 would make joefish 22, not 23...

Also, just a note, I have a friend who was working with Dresdner and got laid off when Dresdner was clearing out their U.S. bankers. Guess where he went? JPMorgan! Just goes to show you, just because someone is at what may be perceived as a lower ranked bank, doesn't mean they weren't capable of getting a BB spot. Some people actually care about the quality of their experience and not the name on the door.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 
CompBanker:
I have a friend who was working with Dresdner and got laid off when Dresdner was clearing out their U.S. bankers. Guess where he went? JPMorgan! Just goes to show you, just because someone is at what may be perceived as a lower ranked bank, doesn't mean they weren't capable of getting a BB spot.

It is quite easy for people to move from a 2nd tier bank to a 1st tier after a few years experience. They might not have been good enough to get into a BB in the first place, but given the attrition rate it's quite obvious that they can move upwards later down the line, the fired/resigning tier-1s being replaced with tier-2s. You have people in tier-2s happy with their desk desperate to move into tier-1s, prestige and more money are the main reasons for that.

 

Ok so badam prestige matters to you thats fine, i am going to ask you and everyone else on this forum to refrain from asking irrelevent questions such as those pertaining to prestige, rankings, etc. WSO is designed to create meaningful discussion NOT argue over who is a BB and who isnt.

Furthermore since you are a VP at DB I expect you now to contribute meaningful incite on this forum for the younger and less informed people that have questions.

THE END.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 

When someone asks you what you do, you expect them to be impressed, and instead you get a dumbass response like

"Oh I feel so sorry for you!" "That's disgusting, you should be making the world not your own pocket a better place" "Man that sucks! Sure you guys get like $30k but you're working like 120 hours a week, that's like worse than a toilet cleaner at McDonalds!" "That sounds incredibly boring and geeky, so you're like an accountant type?"

And other stereotypes, which depending on your desk, may be completely incorrect?

If you honestly couldn't care less, you're a stronger man than me!

 

you see badam the difference between us is, I do not associate with the the type people that make comments like that. I dont need to impress anyone but myself. I guess its my background, where I come from people dont understand finance much less trading and thats fine.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 

Having been following this for a bit of time, I'm finally goint to add my own two cents in. Everyone here is forgetting that prestige is great but it doesnt' mean crap when it doesn't fit with the person who has it.

Prestige here on WSO reminds me of someone looking at buying a car. If someone wants to buy a Benz, they do it because of the name first and foremost. If someone buys a Corvette, it's like owning a bit of prestige because a Corvette is clearly on a level unto itself within the Chevrolet family of cars and has more prestige associated with it. IF someone buys an exotic sports car, they do it partially for the name, because I'm pretty damned sure that they don't know how to drive the sports car properly. Everyone wants to see who's getting out of the expensive and shiny car because it's an attention grabber. As such, people view you differently because of the car you drive. Cops look at a guy in an F150 and think differently than seeing a guy driving certain Japanese imports (Think something like a Civic, a Nissan Maxima/Altima, Toyota Camry, Mitusbishi Galants and Lancers, Subaru WRX [anything that is typically modified for street racing like you'd see in the Fast and the Furious movies]) or a suit in a luxury car.

It is the same way with people here and banks. They view a Goldman/MBB/Blackstone as the most exclusive, prestigious car on the lot and want it regardless of it's right for them. There will always be those people, but sometimes it may not be worth it if you don't get the experience you want out of it. Is it worth owning a Ferrari if it breaks down every 500 miles? If having to see your precious Ferrari in the shop every few months is worth the prestige of owning a car, then so be it. IF its not the right car, then it's not. It's the same thing with looking at the bank for the name. Yeah working at GS is nice, but if it's not with the group you want in the area you want, is it worth it? IS working at GS worth it if your stuck in Ops when you want to do IBD coverage? It's just like the broken Ferrari. Yeah, you own a Ferrari, but it's worth nothing to you if you don't enjoy it.

Everyone here can get hard of TMT or M&A at Goldman, but if it doesn't fit, why bother with it? It's just like a car... you can get a car you think you want and hate it, or find a car you know you want and love it to death. In the end, prestige only makes us fall asleep easier because we can convince ourselves that we work for the best of the best, but if the fit's not there, then why bother with the presige at all?

 

badam, I don't understand how someone can be "not good enough in the first place", but good enough eight months down the road? Nothing has changed with the individual, but all of a sudden their intrinsic value increases because they go to work at a different firm? It just goes to prove that just because a person doesn't work for a top firm, it doesn't mean they aren't capable of it.

By the way, I find it incredibly hard to believe that you're a VP. An associate at the age of 23? That means you graduated and were an analyst at age 20. I don't buy it. Besides, the way in which you construct your sentences and arguments are not very fitting of a VP...

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 
CompBanker:
badam, I don't understand how someone can be "not good enough in the first place", but good enough eight months down the road? Nothing has changed with the individual, but all of a sudden their intrinsic value increases because they go to work at a different firm? It just goes to prove that just because a person doesn't work for a top firm, it doesn't mean they aren't capable of it.

By the way, I find it incredibly hard to believe that you're a VP. An associate at the age of 23? That means you graduated and were an analyst at age 20. I don't buy it. Besides, the way in which you construct your sentences and arguments are not very fitting of a VP...

1. It's a simple case of competition and supply/demand. At graduate recruitment level, some people apply to 10 tier-1s and don't get any, but they get a tier-2. This means they were not good enough to get into a tier-1. Though later on down the line, of course their value has increased by having the right experience albeit in a tier-2, and the supply/demand is entirely in their favour, with attrition from tier-1s needing to be filled up by ex tier-2s. Without a doubt I'd say there's a clear difference in the stature of those that get a BB at graduate level, and those that can't (the latter being for example the whiners here at a tier-2 uni lacking in work experience).
  1. I started as an analyst age 21. I'm in S&T, so it took just 2 years to get promoted to associate, then 2 years to get promoted to VP. Where I was, everyone went from analyst to associate in 2yrs, and about 60% of us to VP in 2 years as well. I'm actually a good writer, don't dwell too much how I piece sentences together when rushing on an internet forum!
 

by badam (Senior Chimp, 26 Points) on 4/28/08 at 3:30am

Bid on him being a VP is dropping.... Who posts on WSO at 3:30 in the morning that has be up and at work trading in a few hours. SOLD 4 SIZE

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 
trade4size:
by badam (Senior Chimp, 26 Points) on 4/28/08 at 3:30am

Bid on him being a VP is dropping.... Who posts on WSO at 3:30 in the morning that has be up and at work trading in a few hours. SOLD 4 SIZE

Why are you assuming I'm in the same timezone as you / this forum's default timestamp? 3.30am WSO = start of trading in Frankfurt, end of trading in Hong Kong, and time for bed in LA. Moron.

The work email address I registered with (where the mods can put my name through a Bloomberg people directory and see that I'm a VP) and the IP address I post from prove that I am who I claim to be. I have nothing to prove to you however.

 

Get certified then.

badam:
trade4size:
by badam (Senior Chimp, 26 Points) on 4/28/08 at 3:30am

Bid on him being a VP is dropping.... Who posts on WSO at 3:30 in the morning that has be up and at work trading in a few hours. SOLD 4 SIZE

Why are you assuming I'm in the same timezone as you / this forum's default timestamp? 3.30am WSO = start of trading in Frankfurt, end of trading in Hong Kong, and time for bed in LA. Moron.

The work email address I registered with (where the mods can put my name through a Bloomberg people directory and see that I'm a VP) and the IP address I post from prove that I am who I claim to be. I have nothing to prove to you however.

Wow you dont even work in NY? How prestigious can you possibly be. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 
trade4size:
Wow you dont even work in NY? How prestigious can you possibly be. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Clearly you're attempting to wind me up but that won't work here, NYC is far from the financial centre of the universe these days. In fact I'd say London is more prestigious, hence loads of Americans starting their careers over there. And now is a perfect time to spend a couple of years out in Dubai or Hong Kong. NYC in the longer term perhaps but not not necessary to be stuck there for your whole banking career (especially if you're at my bank which is regarded as 2nd-tier in US, but a top-3 S&T house across most of the rest of the planet).
 

VP at 25 is plausible, but heck I wouldn't care much about it. I know someone in GS who got a phd at 19. While i agree NYC is not the center of the world, being in London/Frankfurt is not necessarily better because of that. Banks seem to value experience in Asia however.

 

I am against that, Why, oh why would I want prestige whores to have their thing?

Valor is of no service, chance rules all, and the bravest often fall by the hands of cowards. - Tacitus Dr. Nick Riviera: Hey, don't worry. You don't have to make up stories here. Save that for court!
 

For someone trying to break into IB, it makes me smile every time I see a post like this. I just envision someone going to work at a BB every day, going through the motions, feeling entitled - feeling like they have made it, getting cocky and lazy and not feeling like they need to continue to learn/grow.

I mean hell, they have "prestige" on their resume, more reason to just sit back and gloat right? Someone from a non-target taking my job? Ha, ya right!

Eventually these type of people get sacked and replaced with someone who is more concerned with hard work, rather than their perceived self-image. So, please continue.. :)

 
JBGH:
For someone trying to break into IB, it makes me smile every time I see a post like this. I just envision someone going to work at a BB every day, going through the motions, feeling entitled - feeling like they have made it, getting cocky and lazy and not feeling like they need to continue to learn/grow.

You just summed up the analyst experience. You sir, are ready for PE.

 

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