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Wilbur Ross "Take a Loan" Comments

ironman32's picture
Rank: Neanderthal | banana points 3,676

Heard Wilbur Ross's comments early about government employees going to homeless shelters/food banks as they are on the eve of missing a second paycheck.

Just wanted to hear the finance/"Oasis" thoughts on this matter. For me, on one hand, obviously this isn't right, people should not be forced to work for no pay. On the other hand, is it the government's fought that people don't have emergency savings.

(side note: just read "Evicted" by Matthew Desmond, got it off of Bill Gates recommended list. Good book to read, made me think about this topic in a different way. It's crazy to think about how people live/act in the slums of our of country.)

Comments (203)

Jan 24, 2019

Just more ammo for the socialist movement. Those are my thoughts about his comments.

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Jan 24, 2019

Given these folks are experiencing hardships through no fault of their own actions I say he is delusional and really don't have a problem them doing that. Many folks working for the fed are doing it for the benefits more than the $$.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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Jan 24, 2019

The comments are predictably out of touch.

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Jan 24, 2019

His 5th or so "let them eat cake moment" since he started sleeping on the job. An 81-year old billionaire who has been accused of fraud is affecting the lives of everyday Americans, and couldn't care less for their plight. And you guys wonder why people like AOC are becoming popular?

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Jan 24, 2019

That's what I'm saying...I think his comments/ideas are horribly misplaced, but I also question is it on the people to at least have some emergency savings for ~6 months. Emergencies happen.

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Jan 24, 2019
ironman32:

I also question is it on the people to at least have some emergency savings for ~6 months. Emergencies happen.

Should they have 6-months of savings in a perfect world? Of course. Is that even mathematically possible for many of our country's workers with families? No.

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Jan 24, 2019

Would love to hear from the people throwing MS about how Wilbur's statement was actually a good thing. Cmon guys.

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Jan 24, 2019

Brings a tear of joy to my eye every day how much Trump is draining the swamp. This swamp drainage is absolutely a thing of beauty.

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Jan 24, 2019

I have a problem with people's sole reliance on the size and large infrastructure of this country. Dems do it when they want to provide universal free stuff, Trump does it with his border wall shit and the tax cut. Now Willy Wilbur is doing it.

Those politicians in Washington should be the first ones taking on the brunt of the problem to blunt if for everyone else. They're the strongest, right? They can take it and transfer it, making it more easily receptible. Isn't that what these OD billionaires are supposed to be here for? Is that not why people voted for Trump and his cronies? What are we doing people?

And the moving around wealth by taxation wouldn't be fair either, because that's not what this is. It's about leaders being leaders and simply taking responsibility. You can't correctly discriminate on who gets taxed. The only way for leadership to work is that they are actual leaders and just step up.

Leadership is about being the first one in the line of duty, standing alongside your brothers in arms. This is not leadership what these politicians--and a lot of business people--are doing.

Dems think freedom is free stuff and republicans think freedom is free from giving a shit. These guys are not even trying. That's the real broken system. When commies and fascists took over the world, they did it by putting themselves and their needs first. Especially the communists, they separated themselves from people. And fascists deliberately drew a line in the sand between whites and non-whites.

We're in a really shitty world because the so called leadership is off in La La Land, thinking they're gods or something.

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Most Helpful
Jan 24, 2019
BobTheBaker:

Just more ammo for the socialist movement. Those are my thoughts about his comments.

Alt-Ctr-Left:

And you guys wonder why people like AOC are becoming popular?

iBankedUp:

That's the real broken system. When commies and fascists took over the world, they did it by putting themselves and their needs first. Especially the communists, they separated themselves from people. And fascists deliberately drew a line in the sand between whites and non-whites.

I agree with all of this. SBs all around.

When the millennial generation elects more and more socialists and implements more and more socialist policies, the far right will have no one to blame but themselves. The amount of angry, tone-deaf, hypocritical nonsense coming from the Republican party has been maddening. Everyone loves Trump "owning the libs" - whatever that means - but no one seems to realize or care about what the backlash will be.

Gone are the days of reasonable debate and compromise.

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Jan 24, 2019

Completely agree here. The government is currently being shut down for 5 billion dollars. That's way less than what the shutdown has already cost. The issue is that democrats can't give in because they will look weak, and republicans won't because the tea party took over a large portion of their constituency.

Trump won't give in because if this somehow works, he can shut down the government whenever he doesn't get what he wants.

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Jan 24, 2019
Forex Swings:

Trump won't give in because if this somehow works, he can shut down the government whenever he doesn't get what he wants.

This is the actual reason the Dems won't cave. Nor should they. It's an ongoing challenge to legislate in this country when one of the two major parties has outright disdain for the very body they control. Many in the GOP including Mick Mulvaney are happy to have less government through whatever means possible, including shutting it down.

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Jan 24, 2019
Forex Swings:

The government is currently being shut down for 5 billion dollars.

NumbersUSA is a hardline right wing anti-immigration advocacy group. Their tagline is literally "for lower immigration levels." They published a list of "Ten Steps to Fix the Broken Immigration Enforcement System" and unsurprisingly, "The Wall" doesn't even make the list.

Why? Because it's a stupid idea that was used as a memory tool by Trump's campaign staff to get him to remember to talk about immigration. Poor people aren't getting paychecks, not because of an ideological battle (i.e. illegal immigration - good or bad?) but because the president backed himself into a corner on an idea that is neither intelligent nor effective at solving the problem he wishes it to address.

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Jan 24, 2019
Forex Swings:

Completely agree here. The government is currently being shut down for 5 billion dollars. That's way less than what the shutdown has already cost. The issue is that democrats can't give in because they will look weak, and republicans won't because the tea party took over a large portion of their constituency.

Trump won't give in because if this somehow works, he can shut down the government whenever he doesn't get what he wants.

A lot of it is done mainly for Trump to begin re-election.

I think the main problem is that the "wall" is an actual, physical thing. Meaning, if Trump doesn't get it built or actually in production, he's not getting reelected; he'll get torn to shreds. Among many of his faults, he campaigned on a physical thing. Every other political when you listen, their ideas are all lacking a benchmark for completion.

For example, "make America great again", can't be fit into box, how do you measure where America started when Trump took office, and where it ended?

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Jan 25, 2019
CRE:

the far right will have no one to blame but themselves. The amount of angry, tone-deaf, hypocritical nonsense coming from the Republican party has been maddening. Everyone loves Trump "owning the libs" - whatever that means - but no one seems to realize or care about what the backlash will be.

Gone are the days of reasonable debate and compromise.

Says the guy throwing around the pejorative "far right." I'm surprised you didn't say "alt-right"--is this your new bid for reasonableness and compromise?

Jan 24, 2019
real_Skankhunt42:

Says the guy throwing around the pejorative "far right." I'm surprised you didn't say "alt-right"--is this your new bid for reasonableness and compromise?

The "far right" isn't a pejorative - it's an apt description of people on the far right of the traditional American political spectrum, just like "far left" is an apt description of the people on the far left of the American political spectrum, "conservative" is a fair way to describe generally right-wing people, "liberal" is a fair way to describe generally left-wing people, and "centrist" is a way to describe people in the middle. Shit isn't controversial.

Grass won't be green next, I assume.

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Jan 26, 2019

Second this

Jan 28, 2019

I mean, you can argue those days were never really "here" to begin with. 150 years ago people were mauling each other on the Senate floor.

That being said, the strongest argument in favor of an incremental increase in taxes, or a living wage, or whatever, is that eventually the far more populous poor will make their will felt and no amount of dollars or racism will stop that. It happens often throughout history. Why not give up an inch today to save yourself a foot tomorrow?

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Jan 24, 2019
Ozymandia:

eventually the far more populous poor will make their will felt

42% of Americans aren't saving for retirement at all. 69% of millennials, aka people between the ages of 23 to 38 are saving for retirement.

It's coming

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Jan 29, 2019

I worry about this exact problem. What the fuck does the Republican party become after Trump? I certainly don't love Republican politics anymore, but I was once a Republican because I believe strongly in fiscal responsibility. But that's not what this party represents these days. In truth, I'm not sure what it represents. Right now, there's a crowd of fanboys getting semi-erect every time Trump sticks it to lib-tards, feeling like they're getting their just desserts for eight years of Obama and his posse of pinko pussies. That's neither sustainable nor coherent.

I was hoping that after two years of picking the same scabs, the MAGA crowd would eventually allow old wounds to heal, but they've got a sadistic streak in them that wants those scabs to scar. The problem is--each of these are self-inflicted wounds. A policy disagreement doesn't weaken the country. Attacking the holder of a dissenting opinion and not the policy itself does.

The Trump administration is one seemingly endless onslaught on the people who disagree with him. There is no debate because the issues matter much, much less than the jibes. As a matter of tactics, the backlash to those jibes could be massive. The Dems are so incompetent that they may cannibalize themselves in the primaries and put forth and un-electable leftist as their candidate. Or perhaps Schultz or Bloomberg will become a third-party spoiler for the Dems.

But there is a real chance that the Dems will trounce the Republicans again in 2020, they'll take a shitload of state houses and governorships, they'll gerrymander their state districts in the new census, and we'll be stuck with a decade or more of unnecessarily liberal politics. And since the Republicans have been shunning the Latino community instead of embracing them, the demographics of societal change are against the party. If Republicans lose the advantage currently afforded to them by the gerrymandered districts following the 2010 election when they swept through countless state houses, they could be out of power for a very, very long time.

These sorts of 'let them eat cake' comments only add to the problem. I worry because I don't actually want to live in a society dominated by the AOCs, Elizabeth Warrens and Bernies of the world. I think they're wrong on a lot of things, but you never hear them telling workers to go fuck themselves, do you?

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Jan 29, 2019

Well said!

They're minerals, Marie!

Jan 29, 2019

I'd prefer the people who just 'like' my comments to comment on them.

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Jan 31, 2019

Totally with you on this. I'm from Alabama and we came uncomfortably close to electing a child rapist to the Senate because of this pettiness.

Jan 24, 2019

Just lock all of Washington in a room / building until they can sort something out. Feel horrible for the 20 - 25 year olds that have to deal with no pay.

Jan 24, 2019

And now we have Larry Kudlow saying that government employees are working without pay due to their "respect for the office for the presidency and presumably, their allegience to President Trump" in a press conference just now.

Eat the uber rich.

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Jan 24, 2019
Alt-Ctr-Left:

And now we have Larry Kudlow saying that government employees are working without pay due to their "respect for the office for the presidency and presumably, their allegience to President Trump" in a press conference just now.

Eat the uber rich.

This is real life.

Jan 25, 2019

Larry Kudlow has always had such a punchable face

Jan 24, 2019

I feel for those that are going through hardships due to this... but I think we need to do better as a nation teaching the younger generations about their financial health. Life sucks, and it certainly isn't always fair. But I believe the vast majority of the younger crowed are not ready when life throws curve balls. Is the general 6 months of savings guideline always attainable for everyone, no... not at all... But I think that stems from a lack of financial literacy at a younger age when personal spending habits begin to form. It's obvious many parents fall short in teaching their children the importance of being prepared and accumulating a reserve pool should shit hit the fan, and I think that's where our public education system should step up.

As noted by my tagline I'm part of that younger generation, and it's painful to see how deep the lack of knowledge truly spreads. Few of us have north of $10,000 in savings, let alone retirement assets, yet the majority have an iphone worth significantly >10% of their net worth... often multiples of that.

Is that a problem a few classes in junior high building in high school could solve.. I'm not sure... But looking at the growing student debt, and the ever increasing ill-advised money decisions friends make.. I can't imagine it would hurt.

Cultivating mass and wealth since '95

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Jan 24, 2019

You see this often in the lower-income community where the person on Food Stamps has the new Nike/Jordan shoes, or iPhone, or Modified Cars.

No pain no game.

Jan 24, 2019

It's prevalent across all socioeconomic levels. Higher levels just finance more extravagant purchases further than they should. Third home, bigger yacht etc

Cultivating mass and wealth since '95

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Jan 25, 2019

I took a personal finance course in a public high school, and even that didn't do a good job of teaching basic budgeting, savings, etc. For a month the project was basically building a monthly car payment calculator in excel...I agree there really needs to be a much higher level of financial literacy in this country, but I guess I've struggled with who should provide it? The government / public education, private institutions (which would then charge for it), just free internet resources, etc.

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Jan 24, 2019

I think it should be built into the public education curriculum starting in grade 6, building throughout completion of high school. It would start incredibly simple, but over time it would build a very general base foundation for each student to at least have some background knowledge on how loans work, the basic investment vehicles, the benefits of compound interest etc.

Building on this I think the argument could also be made for it to be beneficial in secondary education as part of a requirement for an undergraduate degree. I know I, and many others, took bullshit filler classes like Power Walking and Theater 100 that literally had 0 applicability to my life / what I wanted to do. If more personal finance classes were included, I believe students would then have a better idea of the severity of the student loans many of them were taking out to essentially dick around. But hey, what do I know, just another mindless millennial.

Cultivating mass and wealth since '95

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Jan 24, 2019
Excelling:

I took a personal finance course in a public high school, and even that didn't do a good job of teaching basic budgeting, savings, etc. For a month the project was basically building a monthly car payment calculator in excel...I agree there really needs to be a much higher level of financial literacy in this country, but I guess I've struggled with who should provide it? The government / public education, private institutions (which would then charge for it), just free internet resources, etc.

Bank partnerships on a pro bono basis. It could literally take 1-2 hrs

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Jan 28, 2019

I don't know if this is right, and I also think its a bit of trying to have it both ways. You can't blame the individual for not being financially literate and also hold it against them when they vote for what gives them the most economic return (think pro-Union policies, etc).

Moreover, I think it's a little sanctimonious to assume you know what these folks are going through. Easy to complain about people not having savings, but it's far more likely that the "impulse" or "luxury" purchases they make are having much less of an effect on their savings than high costs of living and stagnant wage growth. Moreover, buying a nice pair of shoes once in a blue moon isn't the same as blowing $500/mo on scratch tickets - at some point an average person has a right to expect some quality of life, and working 12 hour days, six days a week without a moment of leisure is a life that someone should absolutely be pushing back against.

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Jan 29, 2019

I think some of your comments are missing some understanding of most people's finances. Most people don't have $10K in savings. If you come from a poor or even middle class family, go to college and get a job in investment banking, consulting, or tech, your ability to save after tax money while paying your student loans is fairly slim. If you work in a lower-paid field, you might not have any disposable income for several years after college.

About 60% of Americans don't have $1000 in savings to cover an emergency. At such a high percentage, it's obviously not just young Americans who have no savings. A lot of the workers at TSA, the FBI and other government agencies are not making huge sums of money. Many of them are GS-9s and 10s if they're even that. If you're a GS-9 step 1 in a moderate COL locale, you're only making $43,857 per year. If you're a GS-10 step 1, you're making $48K. If you're a GS-11 step 1, it's $53K.

While that's not nothing, it's not much after rent, student loans, transportation, insurance, and food. For someone who makes $50K per year, if you live in DC, you take home about $3200 per month. That's $38000 per year after taxes to cover everything. Once again, that's not nothing, but saving $10K takes such a person a VERY long time. You're going to have to live in a shitty apartment in a shitty neighborhood, exclusively take public transportation, never eat out, never buy new clothes or go to a movie. At that salary, you'll have no creature comforts even if you're not supporting anyone else. But if your money gets drained by having to care for a family member, support your kids or pay alimony, you're going to have fuck all at the end of the month to put away for a rainy day.

A lot of government workers work for the government for the stability of the paycheck precisely because they live paycheck to paycheck. They rely on that money hitting their accounts every two weeks. And while many lack financial literacy, it's not clear to me they have the means to save 6-months salary for a rainy day.

I don't want to pick on you too much, because you don't seem to be making your case from a position of malice. You do, however, seem to be coming from a position of privilege where $10k doesn't seem like much money. My father was an Admiral in the US Navy. I grew up around people who relied on government salaries, and I'm telling you that's a lot of money to some low-level employee of the TSA.

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Jan 24, 2019

Not saying $10,000 isn't a lot of money, I'm actually trying to say that it is a ton of money for most people and that in itself is the problem! The majority of our nation does not plan long term and stick to the plan. The majority of our nation does not understand simple financial arithmetic and often does not understand what they are getting themselves into with an assortment of debt (Credit cars, car loans, HELOC's, etc).

Our high schools preach that everyone should go to college. Even the kids who have literally 0 idea of what they want to do and likely would be tenfold better off going into a trade program. Yeah, sign yourself up for 100k in debt for a job that will make a fraction of that. It doesn't make sense, and this is only one of a plethora of examples.

I do however completely agree with your third paragraph, life sucks and isn't always easy. I lived out of a van and showered + shaved at my gym for a couple semesters of school because I didn't want to go into debt and a few scholarships I thought I had fell through. Sure it wasn't fun, but I knew what I was signing up for and stuck to it. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Sure as hell motivates one to kick it into a new gear.

Cultivating mass and wealth since '95

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Jan 24, 2019

Add him to the list of people affiliated with the administration who have made insensitive comments. The answer to the shutdown is simple: open up the government immediately and put these people back to work with pay. Then, negotiate about border security, including a wall.

Jan 24, 2019

I think the big problem is there is no real negotiating anymore. Without holding people's pay hostage the left won't negotiate with the right and right won't with the left. No one will compromise anymore, it is all or nothing. There is no negotiations, it is win or lose now. It is a mess.

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Jan 24, 2019

I do not think the issue is that left will not negotiate with the right and vice versa. The issue is the dems will not negotiate with the POTUS. If the Potus was not involved, a deal would have been reached a long time ago.

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Jan 24, 2019

If they don't work for "free" now they shouldn't expect any back pay.

It was a horribly out of touch answer to Andrew's typical line of questioning, which is consistently repeat the same question until the answer is anti-right or fodder for the left.

This entire system is a mess, but having no savings and the inability to qualify for credit is a huge problem. People get laid off or fired probably every day, they don't have the ability to get back pay for when then finally go back to work (they also don't go to work anymore).

It is horrible, but unexpected things happen to people all the time. Just because your employer is a bloated government doesn't mean you shouldn't plan for losing your job.

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Jan 25, 2019

The risk/reward calculus is not all that different from that of investors who purchase Treasurys - you accept lower pay in return for increased job security. Don't think anyone here would think it acceptable for the government to suddenly stop paying interest on Treasurys.

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Jan 25, 2019

https://fee.org/articles/a-look-at-pay-for-federal...
A 2017 Congressional Budget Office study compared the compensation of full-time, year-round private sector workers to non-postal, civilian, federal workers in 2011 to 2015. It accounted for education, occupation, work experience, geographic location, employer size, and various demographic characteristics. The study found that:

Federal workers received an average of 17 percent more total compensation than comparable private sector workers.

Across various education levels, federal employee compensation premiums ranged from a low of -18 percent for workers with a professional degree or doctorate to a high of 53 percent for workers with a high school diploma or less

Jan 27, 2019

Good point but isn't security exactly what they're getting? They'll get their back pay and they'll get their jobs back. Happens 100% of the time. If they face a short term financing crunch, I think that was always one small known hazard in this deal.

Jan 24, 2019

Whether or not a proposal is a "stupid idea" doesn't really matter from a policy perspective. If that were the case, the democratic party wouldn't have a platform. Democracy is about what the people want.

My prediction is Trump wins in the long run because, again, the people want it.

Jan 24, 2019
mbahopeful88:

My prediction is Trump wins in the long run because, again, the people want it.

Back here on planet Earth, facts don't care about your feelings. A majority of those polled don't want the wall, blame Trump for the shutdown, and think the shutdown is a bigger crisis in this country than what is happening at the border.

Polled by that reliable left wing biased fake news organization....Fox News.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-vot...

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Jan 24, 2019

The polls also said that Hillary Clinton won by a landslide. The people dont trust the polls. They dont respond to them.

The Democrats dont oppose the wall because it's a bad idea. We would be much better off if bad ideas from the federal government cost only $5b (remember when we bought defective jets for $500b).

This is a game played by the Democrats. Everyone sees it and we all know it. It's just that the Democrats are outnumbered. If Trump persists he wins. If he doesn't, his base will replace.

But keep relying on your polls.

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Jan 24, 2019

Where's @TNA to defend his daddy through this latest bout of nine-dimensional chess? Been awfully quiet since Dems took the House.

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Funniest
Jan 25, 2019
Alt-Ctr-Left:

Where's @TNA to defend his daddy through this latest bout of nine-dimensional chess? Been awfully quiet since Dems took the House.

Chaperoning Covington catholic field trips

Jan 26, 2019
Alt-Ctr-Left:

Where's @TNA to defend his daddy through this latest bout of nine-dimensional chess? Been awfully quiet since Dems took the House.

Outside of Bush, I'm pretty sure you have to go back more than 70 years to find a midterm election where the opposing party didn't take over the majority/make significant gains. I don't like Trump at all but please stop acting like this is a big deal.

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Jan 28, 2019

Shhhhhh that doesn't push the agenda

RIP LEHMAN
RIP MONACOMONKEY
RIP THEACCOUNTING MAJOR

Jan 24, 2019

All for a wall that isn't going to do shit. At this point, it's just a Trump monument - and a battle for "owning libs".

This isn't a left or right issue anymore, it's about a narcissist holding the gov. hostage until he gets his wishes - and any moron knows that once you pay ransoms, more kidnappings will happen.

Hell, the GOP is probably playing along just to get Trump removed in a plausible way, so that they get swoop in and save the day - minimizing damage to their image.

Let's see how his base reacts to not receiving food stamps. Most people are not ideologically driven, and will not sacrifice anything for the greater good.

Jan 24, 2019
ironman32:

On the other hand, is it the government's fought that people don't have emergency savings.

Yeah I mean its hard for me to feel bad for people that have no emergency savings, but I guess there is always reasons why they don't other than them being financial illiterates. I feel bad for people that had a sudden unexpected hardship and are struggling, but I have no sympathy for dumbasses that buy every new pair of Jordan's that come out & eat out everyday and have no money.

That said, stupid ass comment but he is right... there's multiple banks/credit unions offering 0% loans. I'm sure CNN was foaming from the mouth when he said this.

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Jan 24, 2019
BBDreamin:
ironman32:

On the other hand, is it the government's fought that people don't have emergency savings.

Yeah I mean its hard for me to feel bad for people that have no emergency savings, but I guess there is always reasons why they don't other than them being financial illiterates. I feel bad for people that had a sudden unexpected hardship and are struggling, but I have no sympathy for dumbasses that buy every new pair of Jordan's that come out & eat out everyday and have no money.

That said, stupid ass comment but he is right... there's multiple banks/credit unions offering 0% loans. I'm sure CNN was foaming from the mouth when he said this.

I have your same feelings. I think that the number of people who don't have emergency savings from their own fault/bad spending far outweighs people who had hardships. It's kinda like people who are grossly overweight, a small percentage of them actually have a physical problem causing them to gain weight, but the majority just can't keep their hand away from their mouth.

Second part- I guess Ross is right, but that doesn't make it "right". You shouldn't force people to work, not pay them, and then say go get a loan no big deal. Most of these people who he's telling this to probably already have negative equity, and he's telling them to go more in debt.

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Jan 24, 2019

Agreed, definitely an out of touch individual.

Jan 24, 2019

Of the 800K, 47K are TSA agents. They make like $30-40K/ year. With a family of 4-6, don't expect these guys to build a savings cushion.

https://www.federallawenforcement.org/tsa/
Same probably applies for junior level coast guard, park staff, etc. These employees just don't make enough to have safety cushion. On a good note, this administration has relaxed predatory payday loan rules. No wonder Ross would promote that.

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Jan 31, 2019

what business does someone earning 30k-40k a year have raising 4-6 kids? Anyone who pulls that shit is an incredibly irresponsible human and parent. 4-6 kids is a big responsibility and it isn't any easier on a low salary. Amazing people make such shitty planning and then act like victims. Nobody fucked you, you just fuck raw dog too much.

Jan 24, 2019

BUT republicans are also against covering contraceptives or abortion unless it's their own mistress

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Jan 24, 2019

Want to know why I don't tell normal people I work in private equity or early stage entrepreneurs that we are PE?

...because fucking morons like him say dumb shit that makes everyone associated with private equity look like psychopaths. Not as bad as when the press when on an antiPE spree around Romney time but still...not a good look.

It's a real shame too because almost everyone I've met in the industry is exceptionally hard working and morally aligned.

Also anyone that thinks it's OK to fuck over blue collar working folk like this and expects them to have savings is completely out of touch and needs their head checked. College, housing, healthcare etc... are all the least affordable they have ever been.

Anyways, the point here is that regardless of where you fall on the political spectrum you don't want some cuck piece of shit like wilbur making us all look bad.

Jan 25, 2019

To be fair I'm not so sure most people in PE are morally aligned. They're all just older or younger ex-bankers. There are some amazing people I've worked with and there are complete psychopaths. Hard working, absolutely.

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Jan 25, 2019

What I dont like is that federal workers who have been sitting at home for a month are going to get backpay. If you do have a good nest egg this is like summer break for grade schoolers, which I think is incredibly wasteful assuming these folks provide any value.

Jan 25, 2019

I think Ross' statement was pretty pathetic, but it honestly could not be bad if they would have interest-free loans and were guaranteed backpay when the shutdown ends. The problem is that is not likely (the interest-free part). Would make a hell of a marketing plan by whichever bank would honor that though.

What bugged me more is he says "go get loans, you should be able to" but the way in which he says it really gives you the thought that there was no instruction or assistance in doing so. It's not like these workers came in one day and had a govt rep come in and give instruction, saying "you should do A, B, and C, all of these options are available and should help you" - instead it's nothing, and I am sure these workers don't know what to do other than show up or don't show up for work. Seems to be very little organization in the way Ross phrased his response.

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Jan 24, 2019
RobberBaron123:

I think Ross' statement was pretty pathetic, but it honestly could not be bad if they would have interest-free loans and were guaranteed backpay when the shutdown ends. The problem is that is not likely (the interest-free part). Would make a hell of a marketing plan by whichever bank would honor that though.

What bugged me more is he says "go get loans, you should be able to" but the way in which he says it really gives you the thought that there was no instruction or assistance in doing so. It's not like these workers came in one day and had a govt rep come in and give instruction, saying "you should do A, B, and C, all of these options are available and should help you" - instead it's nothing, and I am sure these workers don't know what to do other than show up or don't show up for work. Seems to be very little organization in the way Ross phrased his response.

Agreed, it just shows how out of touch he is with reality.

It's like saying to a starving person, "why are you hungry? can't you just go to your fridge and get some food."

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Jan 25, 2019

The media reported the financial hardship to federal workers affected by the shutdown in the same biased, ignorant way they always do.

I say this both as a former business/political journalist and former Federal employee subject to a shutdown. And my sister-in-law is furloughed now, until Monday after Trump has signed the CR reopening the government.

First, the pay of federal workers furloughed or unpaid during a shutdown is always, repeat always, made whole. In fact, the law has already been passed to do so for this shutdown. So nobody at all is "not being paid." They are being paid late. There is a difference, which few news articles bother to mention.

Second, missing payments because Congress failed to appropriate the money is a known hazard of federal employment, whether you're an actual employee or a contractor. Indeed, it happens all the time with contractors. The federal government is a notoriously late payer on contracts, even when the government isn't shut down. If you don't like it, get a job in the private sector or don't contract with the government.

Wilbur Ross gets sneered at because he suggests that federal employees take out a payday loan to bridge over a missed paycheck or two. Well of course that is exactly what they should do, notwithstanding the attempts of the Obama Admin. and Elizabeth Warren to destroy the entire payday loan industry.
Remember that Congress has already guaranteed the missing payroll. If Starbucks is willing to give furloughed employees free coffee, their banks should be willing to give them loans. A great many federal employees belong to credit unions, which are giving bridge loans. I've seen that reported in only one of the dozen of stories I've read.

I'm no fan of Trump and I think he maneuvered himself into an impossible situation with the shutdown. But that's no justification to ignorantly accept the biased media narrative of thousands of federal employees starving and losing their houses.

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Jan 25, 2019

Good Post.

Honestly, what is it like working for the government these days? I imagine long are the days of clock soakers rushing to go home at the stroke of 5:00 PM.

A part of me wonders if the government is the new safe space for us financiers whom are tired of being berated by VPs calling us dumber than a box of fxxxing rocks.

Sure we'd sacrifice our bonuses, but we'd gain a real work life balance. Unlike many of the monkeys on here; I don't like sleeping with my phone on and working nights/weekends/vacations for tyrants looking to build an empire.

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Jan 25, 2019

First, the pay of federal workers furloughed or unpaid during a shutdown is always, repeat always, made whole. In fact, the law has already been passed to do so for this shutdown. So nobody at all is "not being paid." They are being paid late. There is a difference, which few news articles bother to mention.

/thread

Jan 25, 2019

Scary time we are living in, I got a buddy that is doing a federal clerkship. Anyone who is involved or knows anyone involved in law knows that its a good place to start your career. This government shut down has got him coming down to his last paycheck. I'm grateful that i'm in a place where I could at least offer to help but its tough.

There are a lot of people who get in where they fit in and unfortunately for now that happens to be a government job for most. The thought that individuals could just take out a loan unfortunately shows how out of touch our dear friend Wilbur Ross is with the rest of the world. I'm not the griping type, just really feel for those whose lives really depend on the day to day, week to week pay. Not everyone has a nest egg, or even savings.

Its seems like negotiations have taken place where a temporary reopening is happening. I hope people haven't suffered too much and that this sort of things isn't the hallmark of this current administration.

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Jan 27, 2019

So your friend is a federal law clerk who in 1-2 years will be making 200k+ at a law firm and will spend his 30's making $300-600k unless he chooses to forego money for glamour/service and follow the Chuck Rhoades path instead. As if that's not good enough, he is currently accruing back pay while he spends his day however he likes. His one problem is short term financing.

Scary times indeed. Thoughts and prayers.

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Jan 25, 2019

The point is moot at this moment, but I feel zero sympathy for federal employees. They are the most overpaid and underworked bunch of people in America. Most of them are beyond useless.

If it weren't for the inexplicable nationalization of the airports and airport security then the American public would feel almost no pain with these partial gov't shutdowns. Literally, if it wasn't for TSA and the air traffic controllers, this shut down could have gone on for years.

Jan 25, 2019
real_Skankhunt42:

If it weren't for the inexplicable nationalization of the airports and airport security

Yep, definitely something that should be left to the lowest bidder.

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Jan 25, 2019
GoodBread:
real_Skankhunt42:

If it weren't for the inexplicable nationalization of the airports and airport security

Yep, definitely something that should be left to the lowest bidder.

Airlines would compete against each other to have the best security service--courteous, competent, expeditious, and safe. It would be another way to distinguish airlines from one another. The feds could still set the rules.

Do you think federal employees/federal gov't have some special ferry dust that they use to make themselves competent to do security? The air traffic control system is positively ancient. You don't think private industry would make sure to upgrade their systems more than once every 30 years?

Jan 25, 2019

Don't forget the parks!!

Jan 25, 2019
Esuric:

Don't forget the parks!!

That hits on another point. Why on Earth do the feds control so much land? Why aren't the states able to administer their own land? Utah, for example, is practically an occupied territory.

Jan 25, 2019

I can't stand the TSA, but people need jobs. You know, it isn't necessary for every single fucking forum with smart, ambitious members to shit on regular people. Someone has to be the regular people or the little WSO monkeys can't be BSDs. Can't we leave that shit to GMATclub, college confidential and reddit?

And how hard would a lot of you work for those salaries and 2-3% raises, never mind the current political buttfucking?

If I can't have empathy for these poor saps getting the business end of Trumps wall, I won't have any when Warren is jacking our shit in a few years.

Jan 25, 2019
Scott Irish:

I can't stand the TSA, but people need jobs. You know, it isn't necessary for every single fucking forum with smart, ambitious members to shit on regular people. Someone has to be the regular people or the little WSO monkeys can't be BSDs. Can't we leave that shit to GMATclub, college confidential and reddit?

And how hard would a lot of you work for those salaries and 2-3% raises, never mind the current political buttfucking?

If I can't have empathy for these poor saps getting the business end of Trumps wall, I won't have any when Warren is jacking our shit in a few years.

What the Hell are you talking about? I'm a native of Washington, D.C. and both my parents were federal employees. I work with federal employees on a regular basis in my job. I can tell you that the average federal employee is a complete waste of space who is over paid relative to the private sector (the CBO says this) and has much, much better job security.

A minority of federal employees missed ONE f*cking paycheck for which they will be getting back pay. Even those who got a 1-month vacation will get back pay. When the economy collapsed in 2008 I lost my job. Not ONE federal employee was laid off during the recession.

Don't f*cking tell me that I need to show sympathy for these people. There are about 7.5 billion people on planet Earth who have it harder than a U.S. federal worker.

Jan 24, 2019
real_Skankhunt42:

The point is moot at this moment, but I feel zero sympathy for federal employees. They are the most overpaid and underworked bunch of people in America. Most of them are beyond useless.

The empathy shown here is impressive...

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Jan 25, 2019

I thought posting political content "violated the terms and conditions?" Strange that this made the front page.. hmm...

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Jan 25, 2019

This is macroeconomics, which is not political!

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Jan 25, 2019

Ha, slippery slope but good point

Jan 27, 2019

I live in DC and hear about this nonsense every day now. People calling Wilbur Ross out of touch for speaking common sense, just because the guy happens to be old and rich. It's not Wilbur Ross who's out of touch, it's the federal workers and their ridiculous culture of victimhood.

People in the private sector, on average, make less than federal government workers and that's before we account for job security. When people in the private sector lose their jobs (not a single paycheck, an entire job) we don't hear about them lining up at homeless shelters for food. This despite the fact that they've actually lost so much more. They face the risk of going indefinitely without money. On the other hand federal workers act like they've been made destitute for a simple deferral of their pay, while their long-term financial security is untouched.

Nobody is being forced to work without pay. They are choosing to work for delayed pay, which is why none of them are looking for new jobs during the shutdown.

Incredible that an 81-year-old billionaire, who is indeed out of touch in many ways, still understands the everyday American worker better than federal employees do. That's how clueless the swamp has become.

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Jan 24, 2019
PteroGonzalez:

It's not Wilbur Ross who's out of touch, it's the federal workers and their ridiculous culture of victimhood.

Lol, GTFO.

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Jan 27, 2019

Good explanation. I never really thought about it from that perspective before.

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Jan 27, 2019

And here is the token psychopath PE guy that was discussed above..

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Jan 24, 2019

Actually even when Toys R Us went bust, employees had a severance fund
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/11/21/to...
Not sure if you are familiar with the concept of severance pay or unemployment benefit either. For example, in NY it's 26 weeks unemployment benefit. In most cases, people get few weeks / months of severance pay to get on their feet / find next job.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/collecting...
So in private sector, people just don't get thrown in the ocean. If Trump, Ross were so good hearted, maybe they would have used their billions to set up emergency fund like Bain/KKR did for Toys R Us.

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Jan 27, 2019

Not sure you're familiar with the concept of job loss.

When your boss tells you to go home indefinitely, guarantees that you will be hired back and guarantees you will be paid in the meantime . . that's not job loss. That's much closer to paid vacation.

Unemployment benefit . . oh snap! How could I forget the unemployment benefit!? That $450 a week (max) for six months (max) really is just like keeping your job. Totally the same.

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Mar 11, 2019

off with this stupid shit. Working for the govt is totally different than working for any hack shit private firm. You are an employee of the fucking state, with everything that comes with that statement. I don't see how the two could possibly be compared.

Secondly plutocrats have no business in most government functions.

Ty

Jan 27, 2019
Pierre Ortiz:

off with this stupid shit. Working for the govt is totally different than working for any hack shit private firm . . I don't see how the two could possibly be compared.

No shit dumbass, that's what I was saying. They're totally different. Working for the state means you never actually lose your job. Which is why temporarily furloughed federal employees, who are still fine in the long run, shouldn't be acting the same as a private sector work who has just lost his job and doesn't know when he'll get another one.

Jan 28, 2019

0

Jan 24, 2019
Henri Poincare:

It makes me feel a little sick to scroll through this post and see all of the comments which essentially say "I don't feel sympathy for the federal workers because they should have done X."

It's illustrative of a broader disconnect between this forum and people who have worked for a living. It's part of a broader cultural poison, to moralize wealth (e.g. the notion that if you are poor, you deserve it; and what's more, you don't deserve what little you have).

So many in this forum have this idea that everyone else should behave like a rational robot, e.g. the above comment that workers' eating an 8% rate on personal loans reflects a risk that they accounted for in taking the job. Really? Is that the extent to which you're willing to go to rationalize the whole fiasco? Think about how ridiculous that is.

And all of this is for what, exactly?

The bottom line of this situation is that conservatism has severed ties to its intellectual mooring. Nobody reasonably thinks that a border wall is a serious or good idea, and yet we have a president who carelessly forced a government shutdown as a negotiating tactic for a border wall. This has done tremendous damage to the macroeconomy, and it has caused unnecessary financial stress to hundreds of thousands of people.

And yet so many of you eagerly want to imagine away the damage.

Respectfully (and I can't speak for everyone's comments), my intent in starting the forum wasn't to moralize wealth or condemn the poor. These workers have jobs, and will eventually (now should) get paid. It doesn't come down to what I believe is a cash inflow problem, it's a cash outflow problem. How many people, not just these workers, but in America live above their means. Whats the stat, 40% of Americans' can't cover a $400 expense. 58% have less than $1,000 in savings. How many of those people have Netflix, how many have "newer" cars, how many go out to eat. This situation isn't meant to scoff at these people, it should be a warning sign; most plan to work forever, but most probably won't be able to. Then what do they do if they can't save? There's definitely a correlation between people not having savings, but Apple and Starbucks reporting record earnings.

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Jan 28, 2019

0

Jan 27, 2019

It makes me feel a little sick every time a lawyer reveals that his true ambition is to be a columnist or some sort of political person. I'm sure you're still young enough. You only live once. Follow your dreams.

Jan 28, 2019

I'm voting for Duke in 2020, he needs to come out of retirement

https://abc7chicago.com/pets-animals/minnesota-dog...

Jan 24, 2019
thebrofessor:

I'm voting for Duke in 2020, he needs to come out of retirement

https://abc7chicago.com/pets-animals/minnesota-dog...

A lot of people here are probably disappointed you're not talking about David Duke.

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Jan 28, 2019

The single worst part of the whole shutdown is that there isn't one person on either side of the aisle who is taking a stand in the name of Democracy or for the american people. It is all to stand with the party. It's been over a month now, you think someone would say, 'Hey if we're all going to be this stubborn about it, let's take it to a referendum and leave it to the people.'

Not too high, not too low

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Jan 28, 2019

0

Jan 28, 2019

One being worse than the other doesn't make what I said any less true.

Not too high, not too low

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