How Old is Too Old
I had an informational session and
had a chance to speak with a 28 year old entry level analyst.
I also heard that they have a 37-turned Associate (2nd year)
How can these crazy investment banks hire someone who they can
probably assume would die putting all-nighters?
Too old to get into investment banking...
Banks can’t and won't ask you how old you are. They’ll probably guess your age based off of your full-time work experience after graduation. The more full-time experience you have after graduation, the harder it becomes to break in at the junior level i.e. analyst level.
There is the potential for re-branding yourself if you have 5 to 7 years of full-time experience. This usually comes at the price of
I don't know how banks can find out your age until after they hire you and perform a background check.
Then you'll probably get asked about it, and as long as you have a reasonable story it shouldn't be a reason for them to rescind your offer.
But it's not like you can turn back the clock, so just have your story prepared for when the time comes.
Also don't make it obvious on your resume (only list your college graduation date, not start date).
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Suzan
The vast majority of entry level analysts in Europe are around the age you mentioned and I can tell you that the number of reported deaths is relatively small. It seems that most analysts in this age group are able to cope by eating a lot of raw meat, especially that of wild felidae, practising a derivative of Krav Maga on their way to work, and being very awesome. Awesomeness is a key skill in finance, you know.
m2
^ That is rediculous. My friend got into a BB at London last year and she said her class of analysts are all around our age 21~24. Awesomeness will not help your body from falling apart. Old is Old IMO. Hence the conclusion, again, they(banks) just need peons.
I think m2 was just being sarcastic...
suzan no longer sounds anonymously hot.
My Bad, then. I was just curious and confused after confronting a near-40 associate with an inflamed eye.
i guess by entry level analyst, you mean a first year.
the two oldest first years I knew were 24 and 26. Lateral / Masters Degree were their reasons.
I could see a 28 year old 3rd year happening, work in something other banking for 3 years out of college and then join as 2nd or 3rd year.
it doesn't matter what age some people are at the associate level. the youngest MD i ever had was 31. the oldest associate i ever knew was 40. Although he was promoted to "director" the year after, skipping the vp level.
You're too old. Get the fuck off my porch.
Someone in their mid 30's should be able to pull all night session without a problem. I can understand a 60 year old needing 12 hours of sleep, but I think the reason you don't see a lot of "older" people in IB is because as you get older you acquire kids and a family and don't want to sign your life away to a bank.
I cannot stress the importance of acquiring kids and a family enough.
Age is just a number ... like 100+ hours a week
If you can pull it off at 40, great
All that said, I'v seen 30 year old first year analysts who were awesome, and got promoted to Associate so quick it would make your head spin
My dad is over 50 and once every six months or so he is forced to pull an all-nighter to meet client deadlines. During my analyst years, we had a Director who had no problem pulling an all-nighter to assist in turning a draft to get the document out to the client on time.
The truth is -- you got to do what you got to do to get the job done. Sucks to be a 37-year old associate, but if you don't have a family to go home to, age becomes a lot less important.
What is it with the age-hating? Age is one data point! If you're an MD recruiting at a target school and you're staring at a 38 yr old whose done all sorts of stuff in his life: a shaman priest in Brazil turned human rights lawyer in New Jersey etc. But the dude has a 750 GMAT and can do DCFs in his sleep and is an Excel Wizard and any accounting trick questions you throw at him he crushes and he spins a good yarn about how his tree-hugging experiences have taught him that capitalism is the way to develop the world, and he wants in.... and throws in how just last year he spent 42 hours awake hugging a tree... are you gonna ding the dude? Prolly not. You may not hire him on the spot, but at that point age becomes irrelevant.... If you are 26 and have 2 kids and a dog your chances are worse than a single 38 yr old with all day long.... Age is determinative if you are recruiting online and you are not a quant.... but other than that... they're thinking, "can he do the work? will he be a pain in the ass? can i bring him around clients? etc....." my 2 cents.....
I know a 29 year old 1st year analyst, a 33 2nd year analyst, and a 31 year old first year analyst. All in BB and elite boutiques.
Military?
I don't know anyone who ever became an analyst after their officer stints (though I do know it happens). Still, your ages are pretty out there.
2 are military, 1 just worked for a while ad didn't return to school until late 20's. I just mention they all began their banking roles directly after undergrad.
If you are good enough, you are young/old enough. Age is just a number.
Until recently, it was normal for German graduates to graduate in the mid-20s (especially for males who had to do mandatory military service/social service). 13 years of school, 1 year mandatory service, 4-5 years of university (bachelor/master system is rather new in Germany). There re still schools that require 13 years of school (instead of 12), there are people doing a volunteer service or just travelling the world before university and a lot of people do a Master degree here (since the bachelor is still regarded as "university light" by many people). So there are probably a lot of analyst in their mid to late 20s in Frankfurt and other European cities (outside the UK).
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet....people actually need less sleep the older they get. medical fact buysidegirl. look it up.
Hope you are wrong Buysidegirl. I am aiming to get into finance with 31. In Spain until a few years ago university used to be 6 years, now I am doing a PhD (I know it is not worth it) but it is a real experience to live in China for 5 years.
they'll just stab them with adrenaline shots
Speaking from a US point of view, generally analysts are going to be fresh out of college kids. Most of the time, that means 22-23, If you went to the military before college or have some other compelling reason for going to college late like you played pro sports for a couple years or something, yeah the'll take you at 26-27, that's not really the norm though. I don't think it's a knock against you, haven't run across any pro athletes in my time reading resumes but I think military people who are a bit older have a leg up if anything, there's just not that many people in the world who do that kind of thing then turn around and earn the academic credentials necessary to work at a top level bank, so you don't see those resumes too often. Sometimes there's lateral hires who did accounting or something for a year or two and become an analyst at 24-25. Also not particularly common. Analyst is really a kid's game.
Associates have a lot more leeway as far as age is concerned. If you can give a compelling reason for why you want to do banking as an associate, and can prove you know what you're getting yourself into, I don't think age is that big of a deal (that's a big if btw). Obviously most are late '20s/early '30s, but that's really just a function of when people tend to go to b-school/end up at that point in their careers, not the preference of banks.
Too old. I agree with 1styearBanker, they should get the fuck off the porch and sit their asses in rocking chairs.
being older is better in banking, at the senior level anyway. No CEO takes a 35 year old MD seriously.
what's too old to be a first-year associate? (Originally Posted: 11/12/2007)
30? 35? Does it matter whether it's at a BB or a boutique?
I would say that I have yet to speak with an associate over 32...Most of the older guys went to b-school late and switched to banking from a different pre-mba career. Trying to make the switch?
I would say that I have yet to speak with an associate over 32...Most of the older guys went to b-school late and switched to banking from a different pre-mba career. Trying to make the switch?
I would say that I have yet to speak with an associate over 32...Most of the older guys went to b-school late and switched to banking from a different pre-mba career. Trying to make the switch?
That being said, because they were career switchers, with B-school and perhaps some military experience (really the only way to start at that level at that age). Also, at that point remember a switcher will have MDs, Directors, VPs and other associates who are younger than them. Although the bastards never looked like it, always looked mid-20s from their silly low stress jobs.
i have a guy at 34 in my associate class
i know someone who was 37/38 as first year associate at JPM. Career switch from healthcare to i-banking.
I've seen more than a few associates in their mid to late 30s. Frequently ex-military guys doing an MBA.
yeah I know quite a few associates who started in their late 30s. Some in their early 40s. gets awkward when 24-year old A-to-As get to manage ppl 15 years their senior but it happens.
it does take a uniquely motivated individual, but it can be done.
i'd add that these tend to be somewhat specialized people with a background in certain industry, ie healthcare, who then become healthcare bankers. this is where years of experience can REALLY help.
i see fewer generalists and product associates in their late 30s/early 40s.
How old is too old? (Originally Posted: 02/09/2015)
At MM banks you have analyst who previous did consulting or other front-office finance jobs. So ages 24-27 2nd year analysts are around. At least in my group in NYC.
Maybe around 28 you're getting too old for an analyst gig -- maybe other people here will say 24/25 is already too old.
My best friend is turning 27 soon, and he is going for SA at BB this summer. In his case, He was in US army for 5 years. I just turned 25 and aiming for SA this summer. (I was away 3 years from college.) Another friend of mine is starting as FT at BB from this summer, and he turned 26 today. Enough as an answer?
You are not too old but you are getting screwed if you are applying for analyst roles. Nobody in my MBA class who got IB had banking experience. You don't need an MBA to go from analyst to associate anymore.
This is why you do full time or bust if you are trying to change careers.
Is 35 too old? (Originally Posted: 12/21/2006)
I am looking for an Associate position in IB and wondering if there are others that are mid 30's with MBA looking at I Banking? I realize I may be older than most VP's, but I have a passion for IB. Any constructive thoughts? Does age matter? BTW I look much younger than my age so most likely an interviewer will have no idea of my age. It should not matter assuming I can do the job.
I worked as an analyst in IB for a little over a year and then changed career tracks. Can you speak a little bit more to the breadth of your career experience?
Your age may not be a blatant factor, but trust me, people use deductive reasoning all the time when looking at your resume'. Your face might say 25, but your undergrad degree year says c/o '93. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. But what's your working background in up until this point?
Background in IT and management consulting in healthcare. I was a Hospital CIO and now consulting in the healthcare industry (Payor/provider and Pharma). Have a degree in Cell Biology and MBA. I hope to leverage my industry and operational knowledge to get in with a BB IB and then move to PE shop that focuses on healthcare. Any comments would be appreciated.
We have an associate coming in that is like 35 from Wharton. However pedigree matters more than work experience.
i.e. top schools, top companies. most bulges won't go for a usc mba + hewitt associates
Too old? (Originally Posted: 07/02/2012)
I am currently an analyst at one of the top commodity shops (power) working in their origination group. I mostly work on pricing long-term structured products. I've been here about 2 years and, due to some recent changes and beating that power has taken recently, I'm looking to get out and do banking. Unfortunately, I am 25 soon to turn 26...would it be smarter to go a business school and try going in as an associate?
You are sort of sitting on a fence haha. You are in position to do either (you are not too old for analyst). But, I'd go for an MBA tbh. gd luck
I'd rather make the move now since you can. Getting an MBA is a one-time $200k+ payment so you can participate in campus recruiting. I wouldn't make that payment unless you were absolutely certain in what you want to do.
I would start recruiting hard. If you end up with an offer you can start negotiating with other firms to let you start as an associate. It's been done before since you probably have a more relevant background than most b-school hires.
bro, you're never too old to bang freshman
Sometimes I wonder if I'm too old to be an analyst. My Grandfather told me it's never too late to chase your dreams, unless you're dead.
This is it! This is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain, or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!
If you want to just do an analyst stint as a training/recruiting platform to PE/HF/whatever buyside then just go now. If you do MBA, you're locking yourself into a career track that's more difficult to get out of, ie MBA -> IBDassoc -> harder to break into buyside. Analyst over 30 aren't uncommon, especially outside of the US, and it depends on your carer goal....do you want to work on the sell side forever or transition to the buy side?
And like user above said, you can only use the MBA silver bullet once so make it count.
Will ibanks take a 22 year old undergrad for intern? (too old?) (Originally Posted: 12/12/2009)
Hi guys -- I go to an Ivy and took more than a year off college. Even though I'm applying to "junior internships" , I'm actually 22 already and by the time they hire me fulltime I could already be 23-24.
Is that too old? When they finally find out my birthday will they go "hmm why did it take this kid 6 years to finish college when everyone else took 4?" and rescind my offer? Or do they not care about age, as long as you're undergrad?
I don't know how banks can find out your age until after they hire you and perform a background check. Then you'll probably get asked about it, and as long as you have a reasonable story it shouldn't be a reason for them to rescind your offer.
But it's not like you can turn back the clock, so just have your story prepared for when the time comes. Also don't make it obvious on your resume (only list your college graduation date, not start date).
They wouldn't care as long as you're a junior. 22 isn't all that old anyways.
This happens all the time. Lots of people take more time to finish school - some purposely delay their graduation in order to go through another round of recruiting. You're eligible to apply for internships as long as you're not graduating this year.
This happens more frequently thank you think. Some international students serve their mandatory 2-3 years in the army after high school before even applying to US schools. Don't worry about it.
I was 22 when I interned - no one asks, nor does anyone care.
international students gap years-- to travel or to intern other reasons (i.e. 5 year college programs?)
don't worry too much-- no one cares, and you probably won't even be the oldest
no one cares how old you are
They legally cant ask about that stuff either.
yeah, no one will care that you're 22 (if they somehow figured it out).
but the year plus off might raise a few questions.
They'll notice it if they request and review your transcript. I suggest you have a good response lined up in the event this happens. It may or may not make getting the position more difficult. However, the mere fact that you're older won't have any impact.
You're fine. They're not going to ask you your age. As long as you're in school you're good to go!
Plenty of kids also PG, for example, many athletes will go to prep school for a few years or go play junior league sports before college. I had a friend in college on the hockey team who was 21. Not a big deal.
Would you guys say there is an age limit for becoming an analyst?
you are totally fine. one of my friends whom did a SA had a 28 year old in his class.
I would be more worried about explaining the year off (As long as you have a good reason or can give it a good spin, this should be fine too). The age thing doesn't matter.
yup, like what others mentioned, be prepared to answer qns like why you took one year off your studies and stuffs like that. and yar some students have to do their military service stuffs like that. And if you are good, why wont they hire you
think of all those international kids who break into i-banking or consulting. Koreans and Taiwanese, for example, have their 3-year-mandatory military service. They start their internships around 25~26 and even 28+ !! Age is never a problem as long as your not over 30!
We had a couple of 30+'s at training...
...never understood what they were going for...
Too old too experienced for SA? (Originally Posted: 08/21/2011)
I am literature background in college and doing my master in finance. After my first year in master, I decided to take a gap year and did internships(yes, it's common here in Europe). Have done a offcycle in a lower BB and now doing another 6-month in a top BB (both in trading group)
I planned to apply for graduate program but I kept hearing that banks are undergoing hiring freezing and there will not be spot left after summer class. I am considering applying for next year's SA.
I met some SAs during summer and I found most of them have simple backgrounds (high GPA from top school).I feel that banks may not like experienced applicant for summer class, is it true? Do they prefer smart ppl with simple background than those old switchers like me during SA recruitment?
I think it depends on how old we're talking about. I've heard of people as old as 30 starting out at a BB.
Don't worry about age man. In Europe, a lot of Analysts are older than usual. I personally know a guy who's starting at a top Boutique in September and he's 26. I'll be 25 when I graduate and I'm planning on doing some off-cycle internships too.
When are you too old for IBanking? (Originally Posted: 06/02/2007)
Just wondering when you would be considered too old of ibanking, both as an analyst and as an associate. Interested for both BB and MM. I mean, are you screwed the day you turn 25 or 30 or what? I understand that there is no exact age, but approximately when should you forget about trying to get into ibanking?
When you're 75. Your body might not be able to handle the stress.
25-early 30s is fine for associate with MBA, but I don't see too many older analysts. Vast majority of analysts are recruited via targets.
But 25 is OK for starting as an analyst..???
Does it make a difference if you have a MSc in Finance
when you are 25???
As long as you can explain what you've been doing and why you've waited until now to try to get into banking, it shouldn't count against you. This is all of course assuming that you get interviews
I start in a week and I turn 25 this month.
that´s good to hear I start in august and i´m already 25, I wasn´t sure if 25 ws too old to be a first year analyst..
I am sure it is on the higher side, but that is fine. You have 4 more years of life/work experience to guide your decisions.
what about age for an associate then? is it the same for BB and MM?
There is no official age for any of these things... People graduate business school at all different times in their lives. If someone graduates at 32 and decides they want to go into banking, nobody is going to hold it against them. Yes, you may be older than most, and possibly even older than some of your bosses, but it won't kill your chances
If you are closer to 40 than 30, you MUST address the age issue directly... they want to know that you will be available 90 hours a week. so say I got no kids, no dog, not cat... I got all day long to make you money. If you do online applications, HR will prolly ding you just for being old. But if you can get in front of real bankers and talk with them and let them get a feel for you, even 40 for an associate is possible. Age is just one data point. If you can explain it, then they will blink.
Am I too old? (Originally Posted: 06/26/2013)
I am currently 22 years old. Currently not in school and have been working full time at a bank. I plan to go to school next fall (2014) with no credit transfers. So I should finish school at the age of 27-28. Is this too old to get into the game? Thanks, also first post here.
nah just dont tell anyone and nobody will care or notice..
You don't have to disclose your age so I would not worry about that.
I hear people saying it's a young man's world but if what your saying is true I have very little to worry about, so long as my work speaks for itself.
Make sure you hit the books seriously and get the grades. You should be fine.
I'm 25 and finishing up my bachelor's after a long hiatus (worked for Fedex as a translator). I'm not too worried about it, the life experience makes this go around at school a lot easier. I'm more disciplined and I've done enough partying for a lifetime when I first went when I was 18. Just work hard and try to get a good lead in every way possible. Network, start a paper trading account, finish your CFA level ones senior year, and get any certifications that can give you an edge. I'm working on getting my master's MOS Excel certification. Sure some people think its not worth shit, but it wont do any harm and I can give my employers reassurance that I'm not a n00b with pivot tables and macros. I'm also doing a WallStreetPrep package on Financial Modeling. I wouldn't worry about age, if you take school seriously and feel confident that you've tasted enough of the temptations of undergrad life, then your age can work to your advantage as long as you don't lose perspective on why you are paying your hard earned cash to go to school again (to study hard and apply those skills)
Your not too old, make your expirence count
Ancient.
Definitely not. An analyst in our group started at age 29. Great work ethic and is now at respectable PE shop.
I know someone who went to a target late and got a BB FT offer graduating this year. Just don't tell anyone and no one will know. Most people just look at years out of school to determine if you're too old.
Agreed, not too old. I know someone who finished engineering, went into consulting, did an MBA, and then swapped into IB at associate level and he is kicking goals now. He's prob 3-4 yrs older than others at the same level, but the experience and maturity helps him too.
Not sure about 'hiding' your age - you can use it to your advantage by showing how your experience makes you more mature, differentiating you form younger analysts. If your references echoed those thoughts then you're all set whether you want to stay or move to the buyside / b-school.
Age range for associates? (Originally Posted: 05/28/2006)
I have a graduate degree and have been in consulting for 6 years since graduation. I am 38. Is this too old to join an I-bank as an associate? Or, could I get hired at a higher level?
It might be hard to get into I-banking at this age, mainly because you are competing with aggressive youngsters. Coming from consulting, I would rather try a job in PE or VC. Cause finally, one might wonder whether you are ready to make 80-100 hrs/week at 38.
It is unlikely that a firm will be able to see past your age and bring you on as a jr. banker. As you would likely be working for people who are younger than you, I would imagine most firms would tend to shy away because of your age. However, if you have good industry contacts from your previous experiece and believe that you may be able to bring in some business within the next few years, some firms may be willing to take a chance. Good luck.
I'm 34 and have been in the law for 9 years and am considering the same question. Banks seem game. Not certain I am . . .
.............................................................
We just hired an associate who was about 35-36 and used to be a partner at a law firm. I think if you can sell your motivation right places will take you. It might be hard to get into a bulge bracket firm.
So what are the age ranges?
I guess you can start as an analyst at 21 or so out of college?
Associates are then generally 25-? coming from analyst or MBA or other? This makes VPs 28 at the younger end, up to ...???
Or did I get something wrong. I think that some consulting companies have a cutoff that if you are not on track to make partner by a certain age then you are too old.
Cheers
A partner from a law firm wanted to become an associate at an i-bank?
Just wondering if this guy ever had any clients or even client skills.
A partner from a law firm wanted to become an associate at an i-bank?
Just wondering if this guy ever had any clients or even client skills.
A partner from a law firm wanted to become an associate at an i-bank?
Just wondering if this guy ever had any clients or even client skills.
A partner from a law firm wanted to become an associate at an i-bank?
Just wondering if this guy ever had any clients or even client skills.
...barrier exist (age diff to colleagues/boss, lifestyle, family reqs), (perceived) failure rate by employers is thus higher, and you need to work harder at convincing them
I work we have a 1st year analyst who recenlty turned 28. That's horrible.
Average associate with MBA is 28 or 29 starting out
Any data points from Europe here? We have alot of countries with 13 yrs high school ed, compulsory military service and slower public university systems.
I'm sure the avg 1st year analyst over here isnt 21. (My guess would be more like 24-25)
Analyst age 23-26 Associate 25 - 32 VPs 27 - 38 Ds 28 - X
These are typical ranges Ive heard of
The question isn't so much will they hire you as, Do you really want to work as an associate? I mean, it's a very, very grueling job. As a 38 yr old with kids, what is the appeal? I'd try to find something that gives you a better work-life balance, and also a job with more dignity.
That's a good point...pretty much for a level as low as Associate, you don't have the ability to manage anything beyond the world of Ibanking.
Expect to lose the kids and wife with the hours you'll be forced to work. It's no joke.
I've seen people become Associate after less than a year and a half at Analyst level, age ~23
That's a good point...pretty much for a level as low as Associate, you don't have the ability to manage anything beyond the world of Ibanking.
Expect to lose the kids and wife with the hours you'll be forced to work. It's no joke.
Europeans tend to be older. On my grad class there were guys between 21 and 31. On average, Brits were usually circa 23, while Europeans were 3-4 years older. Just a product of the many years they spend studying. >30 might raise some eyebrows, but if you're keen...
do you want to know your kids?
Stay with the kids! The money is good but you wont see anything worth the sacrifice until you are at least a VP and even then you will miss the kids growing up and be bossed around by younger Managing Directors. But if you insist you can definetly get in as a Vp ou Md especially if you bring clients with you from consulting and if you have specific market knowledge.
Goodluck!!
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