Will Ivey & QC be better for US IB with Joe Biden?
Right now I'm applying to Canadian undergrad programs (Ivey, QC, McGill, Schulich, Waterloo DD) and thinking about IB as an option in the future.
I know that the number of students from Ivey and Queen's Commerce going to IB's in the US has decreased in the past few years because of the TN visa problem.
With Biden as the president will this improve? Do you think that Ivey and Queen's will go back to their older numbers in terms of US IB placements?
Bump
I’ve heard Biden has a plan to offer IBD jobs to all Canadian citizens who ask for them - you should be fine. Trump on the other hand...he would personally see to it that you don’t get a super day at.
Apparently, Biden is also enforcing a new rule to make sure no one stays in the office after 5 pm.
Who knew American Socialism would taste so maple syrupy.
If you have the option of going to U.S. schools (assuming they are decent target schools), then I would take that.
If you are constrained to Canadian schools, then Ivey and Queens are your best options (everything else is a very very long shot). But the issue recently has been that a few firms have stopped recruiting candidates with visa requirements (due to approval variability). Overall though if you are a strong candidate then you will be in a good spot at either Ivey or QC.
So do you think the visa situation will remain the same in the next ~4 years?
The reason behind my thinking is the fact that I would be ~20-30k in debt if I went to Ivey or Queens, and I would only want to take that on if I knew I had a decent chance of working in the US.
If I went to Schulich or Waterloo's DD I would come out with like 50k, and I don't think it would be horribly difficult to get a job at a Canadian top 6.
Considering that, do you think I should bet on myself by going to Ivey/QC?
Your best chances for the states are Qcomm and Ivey. Work hard, get on the finance clubs, network, and you will have no trouble getting into the US. It seems like you already have a good understanding of the industry and recruiting process as a high school student, so you're already miles ahead of those entering University with no knowledge.
You can't control what firms recruit from these schools, but you can form yourself into the best candidate possible. Good luck. Always bet on yourself.
Hey, so I think overall the advice being dispensed here is pretty helpful. Overall, Ivey (in my opinion the best option) is the way to go.
I will specifically speak to the visa process (TN Visa, as most firms aren’t doing the H1B for initial entry). The visa process in my opinion is a bit flawed, partially because it’s not intended for IB roles, it’s supposed to be used to “economists”. However, historically the banks would slot IB analysts as economists (it was the most apt role from the list of categories available).
Most people know that when the Trump administration came into office, they made the enforcement of the category description more traditional (i.e. you can’t show up to your visa interview and your application not express the economist nature of the job). So when people in 2017 showed up to the border with roles with applications that implied they were investment banking analyst, they were denied.
With all this said, the visa process today is much more straightforward than in 2017. The immigration lawyers have caught onto the new policy. Effectively, there are two things the border patrol agents will check for when you are crossing. First, whether you have an educational background that of an economist. Typically, if you take a ton of economics courses in university you can satisfy this requirement. Two, the role you will be working in should be that of an economist. Here, your lawyers/employer write a letter that basically says you are an economist with an economist job.
The real unpredictability is the fact that the border patrol agent has a lot of discretion is assessing your application. They can interpret things as they deem appropriate and this causes variability.
Personally, I don’t think this policy will change. I think Biden will stay away from immigration and these sorts of issues in the near term and use his political capital elsewhere for issues more people care about.
And FYI, before I get downvoted (again) I know all of this from first hand experience lol.
If you want IB, for Waterloo, going somewhere like AFM would be better than DD.
I'd also go for Laurier over Schulich.
Are you deducting your internship earnings from that 30K number?
Yeah how I did the number was all the fees + residence + tuition - entrance scholarship = $122,400
Then with that number, I subtracted the 7k that I would have before uni, 55k from parents, 5 hours a week of work for 3 years during uni, and two years of summer internships, saving 11,000 each year.
I wasn't sure how much exactly I could save from summer internships and I assumed in the calculator I would have an unpaid internship possibly at a boutique or something my freshman year. With those numbers, I got $36,000 in debt, but I kind of upped the prices for everything, so that's the worst-case scenario.
If I got a paid internship first year and didn't spend outrageously + a singing bonus my final year debt would be more like ~$17,000.
Why so dead-set on US IB? You will have a much easier time getting looks from the big 5. Also as a data point, you can expect to earn about ~20k for the summer from a big 5 position.
Also keep in mind going to QComm or Ivey you will have to work very hard to stand out amongst classmates with similar goals. That being said, I know that Evercore has strong ties to Ivey (not sure about Queens). If you enter undergrad with that goal in mind you should be able to amount to some success in that regard.
Take this for what you will but I pretty rarely run across CA grads in IBD. Better to be the rule not the exception.
Yeah, I've read that there have been significantly fewer Canadians going into the US especially in the past few years, that's why I was asking about Biden.
That's kinda why I'm thinking if it would be worth it to go to Queens/Ivey and pay 130k, versus if I went to Schulich I would legit pay 36k for the whole degree.
Ivey is by far the best business program in Canada for IB recruiting. Stellar alumni network and have direct pipelines at NY/SF banks such as Evercore, Moelis, Credit Suisse, etc. Queen's is the second best. Their OCR isn't that strong but the strength of their extracurricular clubs is unmatched. They send a few people to the top banks every year (including constant placement at Goldman NY). McGill is third, but a step behind the two mentioned before. Solid brand name in Canada and decent alumni network, but no real pipelines at US offices except for LionTree NY and Evercore Houston.
If I were you and had the choice between all of them, I'd go to Ivey. Sure the cost might be steep, but interest rates are extremely cheap right now and the career springboard you'll get from there will be 100% worth it.
Ivey does really well in recruiting especially for shops in the states. I would say that in recent years, recruitment for most US banks that hire Canadians starts in 2nd year. That means that people at Western aren't even actually in the Ivey program yet. Keep that in mind; I think that means that as someone with AEO, you have to take a lot more self-initiative to develop your network and interview prep before you are actually in the Ivey program. Often times, that means that people going into 3rd year recruiting during their 2nd year (not in Ivey yet) are not prepared. I know a few people who actually had to take a 5th year to get the placements they wanted.
While there is not of a large presence at Queen's Commerce in the US, if you can get a spot in an investment club on QUIC or Limestone, you get a very strong network and training starting from day 1. There are also lots of resources at Queen's (IB prep sessions from the investment clubs or IB prep course, 2nd year New York trip) that you can leverage to help you get a leg up. I know for sure that before the TN issue, Queen's was sending at least 3-5 people to JPM and 3-5 people to GS NY and SF with a few placements at Lazard and RBC NY. Even with the TN issue, Evercore, Houlihan Lokey, Moelis and Greentech all hire 10+ people at Queen's each year, all from the investment clubs.
If I did end up going to Queen's considering I have 0 connections, what would be the best way to prepare to get a spot in these clubs, as I know they're very selective.
I guess even if I don't end up going into US IB, going to Ivey/QC will exponentially increase my chances at a Canadian top 5 or boutique, so it's worth it.
There are generally 2 rounds of hiring to get on the club; junior analyst (each club takes 2-3) which happens at the beginning of 1st year, and analyst hiring, which happens in March of 1st year (each club takes 5-7). Honestly, if you are proactive with reaching out to club members, get to know the exec, take the time to go to their events, show your interest in finance (attending IB prep sessions, all of the club's external events, etc....), this would put you in good standing. Also, you should keep up a solid GPA with other extracurriculars + get a good internship for 1st year. Obviously you still need to nail the interviews and demonstrate you're a good fit.
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Schulich? What is this the mid-2000s?
Funny part is, all the people from Schulich who transferred to Ivey in the past few years got some of the best jobs at Ivey.
Answer is yes. When I was recruiting this year, heard explicitly from firms that "they don't hire Canadians now, but if Biden gets elected, it will change right away"
Yeah should change pretty soon. But don’t expect that the schools you listed are going to have US recruiting go up that much. Most spots will go to Ivey, and then the rest will go to queens.
Agreed, don’t expect a stimulus package for the tier 2 schools and below LOL.
Yeah I figured, was just weighing whether or no it would be worth it to go to Ivey/Queens for an extra 90k if I could get a big 6 job from another school I guess if it's going to improve in the next few years, by the time I'm in 3rd year it should be better, so I'd probably go with Ivey.
The one thing that I would really consider is how accelerated recruiting is now. For example, third-year recruiting will begin in second-year -- with most competitive processes wrapping up in February - Late Summer. It is fairly common for people to have secured third-year placements before they even start working their second-year summer internship. If you're at Ivey, recruiting begins before you are even in the program (which is why those on WIC often get top jobs due to early mentorship).
Whatever program you do decide to select, you need to have a plan and start early.
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