I've had this debate with a couple of people who believe that working abroad is becoming a new way to get ahead in finance. Rapid globalization and the rise of emerging markets has made an international perspective more important now than ever. I'm seeing more and more people who have a few years work experience in the US choose to work internationally in order to diversify their skill set.
Many times these people can receive promotions and more responsibility upon returning to the US, setting a foundation for a rapid rise to the top. Also, from an investing point of view, the slowdown in growth in developed Western countries may mean that there's more of an opportunity to make a name for yourself in Emerging Markets.
I'm interested in the AM/HF space personally, but this can really apply to any industry. I think it's important to get solid training first and helps to be based at headquarters to establish a network, but after that you can learn more by going abroad and gaining that new perspective. I think in 10-15 years time you're going to see a much higher percentage of executives/PMs/Principals that have that international pedigree versus just staying in one location their entire career.
What do you guys think? Does working abroad give you a leg up versus someone who hasn't done so, or is this more of a personal preference than anything else? Does the answer differ in banking vs. PE vs. AM/HF vs. S&T?
I don't know but I'd be down to get my entry level investment banking stint out of the way in Brazil. They're banking hard over there.
I'd personally love to work in Hong Kong - great place & low taxes. Next year's my junior year so I'm definitely going to apply to a few BBs there.
I really want to work in Argentina or Singapore. I speak spanish so South America might not be such a long shot for me.
I did a summer stint in HK before, and absolutely loved it.
This is actually exactly my strategy... I'm a native Russian living in NYC, so I'm looking at analyst jobs in London and Moscow to work with Russian clients.
I'm looking for someone with whom I can practice portuguese and mandarin.
PM me.
ehhhh...to some extent yeah. However, they have been saying this forever. When my dad was getting started in banking everyone told him to learn Japanese.
How do you guys even find these positions? I rarely if ever come across them through my usual avenues, and I have found myself interviewing very regularly for over a year
I've been thinking about this topic for a while as me and a bunch of my close friends have been tussling about whether to focus our careers in Asia (specifically Greater China Region) or the States.
Speaking for myself, I would say it is more attractive professionally and socially when someone has actually lived and/or worked in another country. So yes, this might give you a leg up under certain circumstances. I say "certain circumstances" because this really depends on who you're trying to impress- I'm not most people. If we're talking about a well-educated and worldly crowd of Americans, then yeah you'll appeal to them, perhaps only because you're like them. However, if you're targeting an audience of Americans that have never left the country, then you actually run the risk of alienating them. Why? At the end of the day, humans are irrational; The ability to speak Chinese is cool and all, but people generally feel more comfortable around people that are like them, and are predisposed those that are not. I'm speaking from personal experience here. This, along with the fact that experience in New York is more "respectable", really makes me wonder whether working abroad really does get you ahead.
This leads me to my next point- do something because you want to do it, and not just to "get ahead". Do you really have good reason for working abroad? If you can't answer this question, you run the risk of moving out to another country, spending the time and effort adjusting culturally, building social and professional relationships, and potentially learning a new language, only to realize that this isn't an environment you can really see yourself truly succeeding in the long term, move back, and then find out that people back in the States are reluctant to underwrite your past experience simply because it was abroad and therefore beyond their comfort zone. I have many friends that have been in this situation, most of whom tried the "get rich in China" route.
Disclaimer: Already abroad and currently deciding whether to move back or stay put. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions. Also, if you can narrow down your search to a specific location, I would recommend reading this article: http://paulgraham.com/cities.html
Cheers.
From NYC but native Russian speaker and doing exactly that in the baltics, focusing on emerging Europe (AM). Not exactly as warm as Brazil but hope it helps in the future. Certainly not the same comp as at home but definitely brings a different experience.
So working abroad to stay and doing it to come back with a promotion are very different, at least in traditional banks and firms (am might be different if you end up focusing on those markets). Realistically, unless you are native or love the culture and are willing to be at a disadvantage, doing it to stay is tough, especially given the importance of family ties in china, Russia and latin america.
I know guys with decent mandarin who went to hk and dubai for the housing stipend and taxes and were making calls trying to come back to NYC or london a year later. The problem is that unless you stay at the same firm and the fact that you would like to come back is well established, this is hard, especially if you don't have an academic pedigree and are more impressive in person than on paper. Markets get frothy and bubbles pop, but the rewards to chasing that kind of stuff come in the middle of your career, not at the start when pay for performance is limited even if it exists.
This being said, working abroad is a great way to break in if you have a non traditional background and are native/fluent in the local language. It also might be a good bet to dodge a downsizing in the short run and make it to the next rung of the ladder. Just be strategic about your goals and don't make such a huge decision for short term benefits, especially if other people (family, close friends) might be affected by it.
Do you need to know Mandarin to work in HK?
You don't work in brazil to "get ahead." You work there because the national pastime is the thong competition.
Besides, I've always wanted to spend some time living as an expat
I second that, living as an expat certainly has a charm.
I speak three languages.
English / Arabic / Persian (Farsi).
Depends what you want to do... Covering US mid cap stocks out of Hong Kong might not be ideal if that's what you want to focus in your career...
Start big - NY or London And then you see. Much easier to transition from NY to Moscow than vice versa for example. Same goes with big global bank vs boutique Much easier to go from BB to boutique than vice versa.
(I don't know anything about Asia - as it's quite a stand alone market, and if you go there you might as well just stay there as it's pretty happening).
On the other hand, I don't have a head count anymore due to the little crisis we've been having, but when I had it I was not able to fill it with anyone. My ideal candidate could have come from the ghetto waiting tables, and moonlighting as a bouncer, for all I cared. As long as he was a good sales that's all I was asking of him.
Some great points so far. The only thoughts I have to add are 1) don't underestimate the importance of being fluent in the native language towards your social and professional life, 2) being abroad without an established group of friends can get awfully lonely depending on the type of person you are, your satisfaction with the living situation will have an impact on your morale at work, 3) it can be tough getting back, tougher than people think.
I agree strongly that going abroad in the middle of one's career, 1st year VP ish, is when I've heard of folks having the most success.
After a short stint in London I moved to China and have been working in PE here ever since (3+ years). I plan to go back home to the U.S. someday, but potentially not for another couple years. My spoken Chinese is 100% fluent now, though I don't read and write perfectly...
to be honest, there are definitely some disadvantages with leaving home, but I also simply can't imagine having never lived outside my home country for a prolonged period of time... my perspective on the world, ON AMERICA, on other peoples, on business, on government, on globalization, has changed so much.... and I was already an avid international traveler with a family background that had allowed me to spend probably a total of 1-2 years traveling to 15+ countries and 3 continents throughout my life prior to even leaving for London after college.
also, one counterpoint to the going abroad in the middle of your career thing... by the age of 30 or so, you're much less adept at learning languages than you are at 22 or 24. for financiers, my opinion is that the best time to go abroad is after a 2 year IBD stint.... you'll always have a place back home (a job or a spot at an MBA program), but you'll come over when you're young enough to really enjoy it, you won't be tied down by fiance/wife, etc...
this is exactly why i moved over to europe
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