Working Directly for Principal - will learn/build relationship or based on below not really?
Had an opportunity to work directly for a principal in Acqusitions/Development. Initial discussions on pay were shit ($30k all in). Due to timing (accepted another offer) didn’t get far enough to really discuss pay overall team was 5 people - 2 principals, 3 older (30-50s) Acqusitions, asset mgmt, PM.
In the last year they’ve bought $250mm in assets and are developing a few $50-100mm projects. Curious if this would have been a great opportunity working directly for 1/2 principals doing whatever they need?
I feel like based on the shit pay it’s questionable bc it shows they didn’t value my skills (1-2 years our school, can model) but would’ve got good experience not sure about actually building a relationship with the principal unless there for 4 years+ doing good work which would also be a goal. Be the right hand man of them eventually.
Bringing this up for potential opportunities in the future if it’s still open.
So $30k is like a $15 an hour job (assuming 40 hr weeks no less)..... This is substantially below the rate interns at legit firms are making right now.
Personally... I think firms value people based on what they pay them, so if they want to pay you $30k, they think you are worth $30k, and may treat you accordingly.
So, I don't think too highly of these "opportunities" BUT I can't say its not a good deal for SOME to do, all depends what your other opportunities are (clearly, you had a better one!). If you, or anyone, does something like this, treat it like an INTERNSHIP, and stay on the market.
As to learning from "principals"... eh, maybe good, but not sure if that really varies from working for any other firm in all reality (I guess no way to generalize, at least).
Obviously wasn’t a good offer, I was never going to accept that $30k. My thought was it was a pretty big shop in terms of deals and has backing, since I’m directly working for one of the principals that’s a good opportunity. I’m also looking at it as a I’m getting experience now and will obviously be more valuable/ready for this type of role. Maybe I’m too stuck on the shop because clearly they were fine fucking me over on pay.
Curious in your experience since there’s 2-3 other people at the office wouldn’t it seem like I’d be working for all the older executives in reality? It was an informal interview and just with the guy I’d be working for so not sure what that means. Kinda seems like it.
So, I'm not sure I understand.... are you saying the "gig" was to be like a personal assistant for a particular partner? As opposed to a general analyst/associate of the firm?
In small firms, it's virtually impossible for me to guess/generalize... some are like top-down dictatorial organizations with one true "leader" (often who's name is on the door...), and others are true "collectives" with partners being very equal/democratic in decision making. There are also small firms where each "partner" really runs their own franchise like an independent firm, and the firm is really just a collective of shared expenses (i.e. the "law firm" model). So, depending on how this frim fits (and my list there is by no means exclusive), this position and role would probably make more sense.
Is working for the "top" guy all that great? It's a huge maybe, in a small firm, the "top" guy is really equal to an SVP/MD of a major firm in many instances (same degree of control/span, just with absolute authority as opposed to corporate delegated authority). The bottom line is, this type of role/firm cannot be generalized, so only you can guess what you saw.
Currently working for principals who've been syndicating value-add deals for over 25 years with 4b+ in transactions between a team of 2-4 (personal funds being 30%+ of the equity stack). That's just to give insight on how seasoned some of these guys can get (unreal learning environment). Getting to play for a team like that gives you priceless insight on managing a private GP operation, and can in a lot of instances give you cradle-to-grave experience very quickly (capital raising, modeling, AM, transactional experience, etc). That being said, for fucks sake have some self respect man. 30k? The lady who gives me coffee every morning at the drive thru (god bless her) would probably turn down that offer, at least she can get overtime. Honestly, if they're starting you that low, there might just not be room in the team for a serious analyst who can grow into the team and provide real long term value. The experience teams like these can give you is real and very valuable, I'd just look for a different one.
I get what you’re saying so I guess the work hard early and put in the effort to price yourself means nothing?
Idk I have that mindset since I’m new on in my career. Candidly they have prob $1b+ in AUM working on some great projects. Is it worth it to take shit pay ($60k) and prove myself for a year or two?
It’s conflicting because here people easily make $50-100k out of undergrad but also there are stories of x coming in new, some background in the industry willing to work for nothing and price themselves.
Prove not price*
Dude.... any offer in this industry for $30k is an absolute fucking joke and a massive red flag on these guys. I know assistants that make triple that. I'd run for the hills and not look back the job market is hot right not and if you have a good skillset you'll find something better.
What assistants lol, I interviewed for an acq analyst role at a top industrial developer and was offered $50k. I honestly don’t believe these salaries unless you’re working at Blackstone etc. This is in a Tier 1 market.
I was offered $103k all in right out of college with one prior RE internship. The firm isn't Blackstone/Starwood, role is not in NY/SF either so the roles with decent comp do exist.
Dude I’m getting 90k all in right out of college from CRE lending working 50 hrs a week max. job market is so hot rn you should be able to find a place that pays at least 75k
If you HAD to take the job fine. If you are OK with finances and honestly think being there can help your career, then stick it out. Nobody can answer that question but you. Why not interview on the side, and see if you can get something better.
Another huge factor, what market are you in>?
Tier 1 market, also I always do that always have to have your options open.
damn, 30k is low for a Tier 1 market, i'd want to say 50-60k is the min salary in NYC
30k is substantially below market, a directional state school graduate in a tier 3/4 market could reasonably expect 45-55k. For a “real” finance job anything below $60k is aberrant.
$30K is an absolute fucking joke and a slap in the face to even any new grad. As mentioned above, that is at or even less than minimum wage depending on hours. To me, any knowledge I think I could potentially gain goes out to window because that offer is likely a sign off how you’ll be viewed/treated.
I think starting out of college in a larger firm with a real training program would be better for both well-rounded learning and optionality. For every guy who is the mentor of a great principal and becomes the right hand man, there's 10 people out there who work on shit deals, the principal ends up being difficult to work with, or you just generally have a worthless experience.
$30k sounds like a part time admin assistant. Honestly I'd eliminate them at all even if they offered you more down the road, offering someone basically 40% of street is a huge red flag.
Listen I agree, I see where you're coming from but if they're a top 20 developer in the market with serious money behind them ($x00mm's) and are private it's kind of hard. Especially when I would have a very hard time getting into the top 10 in my market rn. If I go back it's with a show I can't be pushed around attitude, know what I'm talking about, and confident in what I'm willing to take and walk away if that's not the case.
They're not working on shit deals they're dealing with some of the top companies today and have a great pipeline of deals in one of the best areas of the city.
It's so low you should just tell them it's so far below market that you cannot accept. Tell them thanks but it's not even worth negotiating (it isn't). Tell them you are talking with a couple other developers with way higher offers. Then just ignore them. One reason they might be low-balling you is they think you are desperate and they're taking advantage (don't do it). Another reason is they think your experience isn't applicable. They might want you project managing all day but your experience points mostly towards pro formas. How many deals do these guys look at per year? Not enough for you to be modeling projects all day. If this were 2012 I'd say do it anyway for the experience, and try to negotiate some carry eventually. But my take is that you can find a much fairer opportunity.
I actually moved on to another developer and plan on reengaging them at around the year mark with legit experience. To be candid I was desperate trying to leave brokerage coming out of covid with a team that had no sales. It was brutal so I think that was part of it that they could see that and took advantage. I had gone through 20-25 full interview processes only to get to the final round with no offers and there were not many openings I was interested in on the horizon. It was brutal so to say I was desperate may have been an understatement at that point.
I never get why companies severely underpay. Unlike buying a distressed asset, that "asset"/employee can walk away. People really don't take into consideration the time and effort it takes to train an employee. It takes at least 2 months to learn where everything is in the files.
Read above explains why on my end. Also it’s not that easy to land a job…. I kill networking and like to think I’m above average in terms of intelligence/quick at grasping concepts and put in the effort. It’s tough to move to development in general so.
It isn't easy to land a job, correct.
But, look because they underpay you are going to reneg after a couple months. I have found this rarely works in practice, only way to get more money is to move to another firm. THis is why everyone should try and start out at a large company with set promotions, e.g. after 2-3 years.
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