Applying to Bulge Brackets from nontarget

BoA was hiring quite a lot this year, I would think that other BB's would follow suit given better market conditions but definitely not 2005-2006 levels. Furthermore, its "hard" to break in from targets so yes it will be hard to break in from a non-target but it is definitely possible. There are kids at BB's from places like Rutgers to Florida State. It depends on networking, experience, and interviewing/technical ability.

Finally, no one really knows bonus numbers this year though I'm going to guess it will be a small increase from the 40k's we saw before, so maybe 50-60k for 1st years.

Thanks, do any other nontargets have advice for networking or breaking into IBD?

What kind of non-target are you talking about? I'm at a Liberal Arts college, I have one friend going back to Citi IBD after his summer, another who got offers from BarCap, GS and CS IBD and Citi Capital Markets.

Obviously, bust your ass for GPA. Second, if you do well on standardized tests, take the GMAT. It's a relevant metric for banking, and shows where you are now as opposed to what you could do at 17 when you took the SAT. Don't be afraid to cold-call alums. That said, I got an offer from applying online directly to a firm's website, and that takes relatively little time, just don't expect high returns. Finally, if you're only a sophomore now, seriously consider study abroad at a big-name school (Oxford comes to mind). Definitely something that helped out friends of mine, in terms of getting to meet recruiters, and I know a few kids from my school who went to England for study abroad and got internships in London at banks (Nomura, RBS I think)

May I ask why you've targeted those banks in particular?

Recruiting is definitely up, albeit still below the super highs of a few years ago. Regarding bonuses, I would focus less on those figures, and more on landing a position. Once you're there, you can start complaining or rejoicing over bonus figures - for now, focus on networking, sharpening your resume and interview skills, keeping your GPA up and getting your name out there. Additionally,. don't be so quick to focus on a specific handful of banks - there are many great opps with MM and boutiques, as well as the other BBs - keep your eyes and options open. Good luck and PM me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks for the replies guys!

Vermont: I'm at a top 50, think Upitt, Penn State, U.Florida, etc. I targeted these banks due to my research and having alumni there, though many of the alumni went to top 10 MBA's and then go to where they are, so perhaps the ugrad connection is not as close.

Bank: Thanks a lot! I didn't want to be "that guy" who applied to all 10 or so BB's and 5 or so elite boutiques (BX,Laz,Greenhill,Evercore,Moelis,etc.)

I also picked colleges on fit/visits so I'm guessing finding a job is not like that in that I should apply to everything and count my blessings later?

You can do it!

I just accepted a FT IB offer from one of the BB banks you listed, and I go to an ultra non-target (top 150!) that is nowhere near the Northeast. On top of that, I had no banking internship

Your school will make it hard to get an interview...very hard. But if you can get the interview, your school really won't be much of a detriment. If you're a bright person who could have gone to a top school but decided not to, you will interview just as well as the HWS types. The interviews and superday will actually be the easy part; getting the interview will be your biggest challenge.

To get the interviews with the big banks, you can do three things:

1) Get extremely lucky 2) NETWORK 3) Have something very unique--in a good way--on your resume

It can be difficult, but it's absolutely possible!

Thanks AverageGuy. Do you think that the top schools (harvard/wharton) types look down on their nontarget peers after work starts or does it really not matter?

Look down? I would have mad respect for someone who works with me that was at a clear disadvantage when it came to recruiting (and I go to a fairly heavily recruited school). I know how competitive it is when banks are actually looking for kids from you school... I can't imagine relying on cold calling and online apps. Its going to be an uphill climb for sure, but not impossible. Just to echo some of the points already made:

1. 3.7+ GPA (from what i've seen at superdays this is extremely important for under represented university kids)
2. Network your way to some sort of related internship experience
3. Network to get your name out there (and don't worry about being "that guy" cause "that guy" will have a better shot at landing interviews)
4. Get interviews and rock them (there's plenty of free info on WSO and the web in general on how to do this)
5. Sign offer and don't give two shits about the people from "harvard/wharton" who might look down upon you at first because at the end of the day you are all in the same boat.

Hope that was helpful and good luck.

I'm sure there might be one or two, but I'm fairly certain that 99.9% of them aren't going to judge you because you didn't go to a top school. If you're on top of things, I'm sure they aren't going to look at you any differently than they look at their Ivy peers.

And for those few who do look down on you, who cares! Those guys are just tools, so who cares what they think. I mean, really. If I meet people like that, I'll just laugh and then move on with my day.

I'm really not too concerned about the opinion of someone who thinks that he or she is better than I am because of their school, and you shouldn't be either. Just feel sorry for them and then outperform them.

Besides, if a person is really that much of a tool, I doubt that he or she is going to have many friends in their group. Most kids that have an Ivy League pedigree also have a good head on their shoulders, so they aren't gonna run around and act like rich bullies from every 80's teen movie. They are going to be bright, thoughtful, down to earth people who gravitate toward other bright, thoughtful, down to earth people--not tools.

You'll be fine!

BTW, although getting into banking from a non-target can be done, I would STRONGLY recommend you try to transfer to a target. You don't have to go to Harvard, but schools like UVA and Michigan will GREATLY increase your chances of breaking into banking. I really don't know your story, so this may not be a feasible option for you, but it's probably the most important step you can take if you really want to get into banking.

Good luck!

You should also look at boutiques and smaller shops. If you read the guide on here, a lot of the bankers from good schools who went into PE/HF went from small boutique to BB and then to PE/VC/etc.

By the way Patrick that guide was pretty bad for people looking at hedge funds, do you think you can get someone who wasn't back office to give his experiences?

I was actually able to get into the BBs twice, once as an intern (didn't get the offer) and then I just recently got the offer from another BB (full time) and I go to a non-target. It was hard as hell to get into the BBs twice, but I did it. It took a shit load of research, networking, strategy, and execution. The best thing that you can do is get people in the firm to forward your resume to HR, that's how I got all of my interviews.

I go to non target, top 50 private school, got offers from bb/mm/pe, started calling up alumni in July to get ball rolling, for Morgan Stanley IBD, I never applied online, alumni liked me, put my resume in recruiter's hands, when you get an interview, you got the interview, rock the SHIT out of it, do factset/wall st prep, learn how to model, get guide from mergersandacquisitions.com, know your shit cold, MS told me harvard kids on campus could recite DCF models line by line (rev-FCF) but were fucking CLUELESS on a question requiring original thought (when do you think interest rates will rise?). That being said, interviewed at GS for sponsors, MD walked in during my interview and said we don't hire kids from my school, crumpled my resume and threw it on the ground. They want to make you fucking sweat, you have to dig through the bullshit, realize its all a fucking test. If you have a good GPA 3.5+, some sort of work experience, and can sell yourself and know technical questions/market questions, no reason non target is less competitive vs harvard. Last point- harvard kid came up to me last summer during training for IBD in houston, said he was intimidated by me for making it this far and not being at a fucking ivy league. First of all, dumbass, second of all, its not easy, but put in the work, you'll get results.

PS- I will absolutely be going to top 5 MBA when time comes...theyre job boards are fucking stupid in comparison, quote to remember "your GPA matters most for your first job" (aka just bust your ass and it doesn't matter if you went to Iowa State (met a kid at superday at GS), outperform.

I agree. I came from a non-target and received an offer from a BB. Like everyone said, its all about the network, once you get the interview, they could care less what school you went to. Having a 3.5 or above is impressive no matter what school you attend and frankly MBA programs also do not really mind what school you went to for undergrad. Just stay on top of things and be bold, make them remember you and want you to work for them. It is hard, but I am not the only kid who received an offer from my school.

i go to a mid-west school....its so hard, cos it usually takes me 6 hrs to get to nyc. no-direct flight, transfer somewhere random in between...BBs only recruit for chicago positions.. only GS ,DB alumni are nice enough to come all the way back here and take kids back to nyc.....sucks

Why not just take a Chicago position?

^^^??? Good question.

its just i really have had enough in mid-west. its not a fit at all.

^Brutal haha. Is that who fordhammasta is?

Guy goes to Tulane btw

"•Equity Research Analyst at Burkenroad Reports •Credit Analyst at Amegy Bank •Summer Credit Analyst Summer at Amegy National Bank of Texas "

current: fmp

lol, brutal

Ha pretty sure I know that kid, if he is who I am thinking of I used to go to school with him until he got kicked out for whacking it in the library... I wish I was kidding. Underperform

He got kicked out for whacking off? That librarian's a b*tch.

I like how he thinks this is true "MS told me harvard kids on campus could recite DCF models line by line (rev-FCF) "

in my experience, harvard kids know almost nothing concerning modeling or finance. They are just very bright students who majored in econ or public policy or polisci. Few of them actually know finance and definitely know less than wharton and other ugrad business kids.

"harvard kid came up to me last summer during training for IBD in houston"

I didn't know General Electric FMP was considered investment banking but hey, if harvard kids are praising you then I guess it's all ok.

I think it's hilarious a Tulane kid's frame of reference for all his stories is Harvard. I'm guessing no other institution in the country is prestigious enough to be included in his stories. At least vary it and add in a Wharton or Princeton now and then.

SWEET! That was very funny. Made my morning. I'm going to throw some monkey shit,.

I'm at a target, but I'm just curious - what kinds of non-targets is everyone referring to? I would imagine places like UCLA, UT, UNC etc. are not targets (please, correct me if I'm wrong) but are still considered very good schools where it's definitely doable to make it to a BB, but Iowa State? Really?

If you're at a non-target that's not at the level of the places I mentioned above and top 10% of your class, a finance/math/economics/whatever quadruple major, lots of relevant extracurriculars, etc. then I can understand. But I know lots of very smart, hard-working people at top schools with 3.5+ GPAs who still don't get interviews at the best BBs - I have trouble imagining that someone with a 3.7 at not very well-known state school would somehow make a better analyst.

Not trying to start a flame war - I'm actually interested to hear what people think.