Monkey to Millions | Andrew (Session 4) - Polishing the Fit Portion of the Interview - Nov 12, 2019
About
After some disappointing news from his latest round of interviews, we take a bit of time to run through some of Andrew's fit questions. Listen to my advice on how to make some slight modifications to come across as more genuine. I think it's an important lesson for a lot of interviewees that get into the mindset of simply prepping and rehearsing their answers to themselves. With another final round interview coming up in one week's time, this time is critical to polish any rough edges. Not all is lost, but options are running out as Andrew is trying to stay afloat working 70 hour weeks and managing the recruiting process.
Listen to the WSO Podcast:
Or Listen to the Podcast Here:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Stitcher
Resources:
WSO Podcast (Episode 4) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:04] Well. Hello and welcome, I'm Patrick Curtis, chief monkey of Wall Street Oasis, and this is monkey to millions. A show where you get a front row seat as I mentor young students and professionals to try and help them break into their dream jobs in the first cohort. You'll meet four students, all preparing for intense job interviews while trying to also balance a personal life and schoolwork. The goal of this show is to shine a light on the struggles of trying to break into competitive positions with a nontraditional background and to give you a roadmap for your own success. My hope is that as you get to know these four impressive students, you're inspired to dream big. Remember, these are real people, and this is their true story. Let's get to it. After some disappointing news from his latest round of interviews, we take a bit of time to run through some of Andrew:'s questions. Listen to my advice on how to make some slight modifications to come across as more genuine. I think it's an important lesson for a lot of interviewees that get into the mindset of simply prepping and rehearsing their answers to themselves, with another final round interview coming up in one week's time. This time is critical to polish any rough edges. Not all is lost, but options are running out as Andrew:'s trying to stay Afloat, working 70 hour weeks in managing the recruiting process. But first, take a listen from Andrew: himself from the weeks leading up to this session.
Andrew:: [00:01:49] Just like a recap of the last week, last Wednesday, I had a Super Day for RBC Global Markets program overall is a little bit choppy. It really wasn't that polished like I probably should have came in a lot stronger. But yeah, so it wasn't really surprised when I got rejected for that position. So not really to able to leverage that for anything else. So over the weekend, I pretty much prepped all the technical and fit answers for my banking interview tomorrow and Thursday. Tomorrow's CIBC. I think that I'll come in very strong just after putting in so much work the past few days and just looking at some of the deals that the firm has worked on, I think I can come off as a really strong candidate, especially being in the non target bucket. I think I can really shine. And then along with Thursday, just with it being so far along in the cycle, I think just the fact that it's it's so late and they're actually interviewing me is a good sign. So looking forward to that kind of decides that I feel a little bit like destroyed today and my brain hurts a lot. I got in the office like seven 30, just left at like eight, thirty eight, forty five. And then on top of that, just kind of build up of everything, just hit me right now. So just go to probably go to sleep and just do my best in the interview tomorrow. It's the only phone interview, so shouldn't be too tough. I have notes in front of me just in case, just for some extra numbers. I have all my basic guideline or basic like fair game technicals ready. I studied a little a few in depth. I've done a lot of my fit. I have that down pretty well, especially from some friends who've broken into the industry. And kind of besides that, I have a pitch ready and I think it should be good. And then over the weekend, I also worked on a case competition that was a M&A case, so it actually would serve well as a short if I'm asked for that. So it's a little recap. I don't really have any other interviews on the go and got it right now. I'm feeling it'll just run down. So I'm not really, like, actively apply. I'm just going to see where these next few go and then kind of re gather myself up over the weekend to see what the results are. And if they're negative, then I guess back to the drawing board if they're positive, even better, just hit the ground harder and try to land something for summer. Late recap the last week been pretty busy, the last two days, just with one of those deals that I've been on, it's the privatization of a U.S. fleet, so it's been pretty busy just these last few days just in terms of literally just formatting PowerPoints. So it's pretty exciting. Yeah, but kind of besides that on the job front found one spot in Toronto for the winner. It's another real estate job that I just applied for. It was really late posting and that sense, and it's with another pension fund, so it's very similar. Just started networking with a few people there. And besides that, the outcomes of my last two interviews, I didn't hear anything back from CIBC, but that one was probably my weaker interview. I didn't really have a good connection with the guys calling, so I didn't expect too much of that with or Dane went really, really well. They're really heavy with real estate deal flow, so they loved kind of a background kind of started chatting with like Premier League Soccer after all the technicals were over. So it's fun in that sense. I actually had a good connection with the guys, so I ended up getting a Super Day next week, and it's actually the guy who's going to be one of the guys. They'll interview me within a lump from my school that I was trying to connect with throughout the summer. But he was just busy up till then, so try to get a coffee this week. But he said it just interfere with the process. So I'm kind of expecting a lot of this. But if not just like our boots on the ground the next few weeks, just finding out the outcome basically and then just not working harder. And if not until I've seen a few recruiters that have told me they'll repost again for a few cat markets, jobs, and January ish. So nothing too bad. I'll shoot you a Skype message just to let you know about the super date. But over the last couple of weeks. So I had DeKaser Dane last Thursday, so it was like alike. It wasn't a tough modeling test by any means that they've taken like a week to get back to me kind of at every point so far. So I'm not too worried. And plus it was With like the only alum for my school to ever get there with the interview after. So I Didn't feel too worried about it and I've spoken to them before. So kind of on that Like an Actual test, it was like a leverage free cash Flow model, and it's like a transaction multiple for basically two other scenarios. So it's pretty easy. Then just basic questions, just like run me through your resume. Like, I'd be like, What do you expect to be doing typical stuff and like what you do outside of the office? So pretty, pretty stable. Just take questions. I think it went pretty well. Kind of emphasized that I had a bad first round Brookfield, New York, last Monday, and I honestly didn't really take it too seriously because it's like a random Resume drop back in, Like August. And I thought nothing of it was just a really casual call, and I didn't think it went well at all. But I got a second round for that, so that'll be coming up next week. And it's interesting because a girl from the team that I'm on now ended up going to Brookfield Out of right after Her term here. And I think she knows like a lot of the people on the team. So I've spoken with her a couple of times and I'm supposed to speak with another few analysts that just have like angel connections kind of over the next week. And that'll be like a Skype second round next Wednesday. So we'll see how that goes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:17] So you're I'm hearing maybe it's my camera, so you're basically you have the desired audience. Yeah, and that's basically done right. That was the final round.
ANDREW: [00:08:36] Yeah, I'm pretty, pretty sure that was the final round, if not, I think they'd mention something that if they try to get me in front of an MD. Just because it's such a small shop, but that would, I think they'd fly me into Toronto, and that would kind of be like the tiebreaker if it happens if it comes to that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:55] Do you feel like You're on hold there or do you feel like you're Like, I don't know. It's a tough question.
ANDREW: [00:09:03] Like I. I'm not really too sure where I stand on that one. Like all small place, it may not be as structured. You know what I mean? Yeah. They may not be as fast to turnaround, so you don't really know. Yeah. But it sounds like you're still getting. You're still getting looks. You're still getting opportunities, which is good. Yeah, no, it's pretty positive overall.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:23] It's doing your job, doing its job.
ANDREW: [00:09:25] Yeah, I think yeah, especially just having the name brand on it for like PSP investments, it's pretty like Well-regarded Like most industries, like because Brookfield is a Canadian company too, so it bodes well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:40] So tell me a little bit about. Where else are you? Are you? Do you have any time to do the other stuff like the interview, all The LinkedIn messaging?
ANDREW: [00:09:52] I think any time to do that, you're not much more Comfortable doing it. Kind of like On the side, a bit like I've been jammed up a little bit with work, but I've I've tried to contact like more alum in the industry that I found. Like, they're kind of like indirect Because they don't like lists That they're from my school on their LinkedIn, which I mean makes sense if you're going for. So I've made contact with a few of those guys.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:19] And how did you know that Might have been doing if they didn't
ANDREW: [00:10:21] list just from reaching out to other alone? That's basically it. That's funny. I'm just telling me about these guys that they've done like the investment fund with, so it makes sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:36] So do you feel like it would be helpful if we did, I mean, it sounds like so you're doing your internship. What's the plan if? Like, you don't get so the plan right now is, OK, we're in November, right, so the plan is to go back to school in when, January, January. Yeah, regardless of what happens, unless you get something that's like they want you to start in January.
ANDREW: [00:11:00] Yeah, and kind of what I'm going for now, like I'd applied to one other solutions like CIBC Capital Markets, like they do, like products and stuff like that. The other was another like real estate team with a different pension funds, so it would be literally doing the same job that I'm at now. But they would just have better return prospects in that sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:32] So pretty good prospects, you said.
ANDREW: [00:11:37] Yeah. Like, yeah, for full time. So like where I am now, like It's you Have to have another offer from a different firm before they can offer you like another internship or offer you full time.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:53] That's interesting. Ok. Yeah. So so you're at this point. The plan is kind of you're still mostly interviewing for summer 2020. Yeah, exactly. And so what's the plan, I guess, if, let's say all those fall through, let's say, Day and Brookfield all that.
ANDREW: [00:12:11] Yeah, honestly, just Might Take a like one or two week break kind of just get everything out of my head and try to start fresh from who I've talked to. So when I did my RBC Super Day, like, I got an email a few days after, they're like, Oh, we just wanted to thank you for coming in Like, sadly, like we didn't pick you, But kind of on that we do post again for other summer capital markets jobs coming in like late December, early January. So the guy said basically just to reach out to him regarding the position, and he'd try to escalate things just because I made it so far with this one interview.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:51] So do you feel like there's anybody that could help changed it? I feel like I failed. Really, you enough, honestly, like you are crazy time. There are a couple of weeks ago.
ANDREW: [00:13:06] Yeah, it was like seven interviews in one week or something like that, so I
Was looking at one of the updates and just being like, Oh man, I know, I know where he is. He's at right now. You're just like getting crushed. Well, this is so tough too, because I don't know if it's because every time I've done recruiting before, I've been in school or been on like a summer, a summer school semester, so I'd like. The challenge of taking on work while recruiting for another job, and it's made the process a lot tougher. So like, I can't commit fully to both. I feel I kind of feel like I've been like half assed and get on both parts because I've tried to. I'm trying to juggle it and it's just Not working at it And I've come to that realization.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:13:53] Full time jobs. Yeah, the reality. You just got a chance to do the best you can to make sure you leave. You're leaving it, you're leaving your job, setting off, spending time on the side to say you don't bomb all your interviews.
ANDREW: [00:14:08] Yeah, exactly.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:14:09] That's tough, man. Yeah. So I mean, look, it's just something where you're just going to get better, too. The more you practice and that week of that hell week that you went through, you probably got a little bit better at interviewing after all that.
ANDREW: [00:14:22] Yeah. Like, I don't I don't see it as negative, just a learning experience at this point. I mean, especially coming from a background where it only done Like two capital Markets interviews Before I even started this like interview season. Like, I feel like I progressed pretty well.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:14:41] Yeah. And then in terms of how many hours you're working right now, what is it, 50 ish?
ANDREW: [00:14:46] I'd say like 60 on the Low end, going to like seventy or seventy-Five tops.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:14:53] Yeah. Well, that's pretty good.
ANDREW: [00:14:55] You know, like some of the private equity, interns Are from Like eight to 10 or 11 30 at night, so I've got a little better than them. Yeah.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:15:09] Wow. This doesn't change. So, OK, so you're kind of surviving, you have a couple of things still cooking right now. Rbc was a no. But still reach back out because you made it so far. Potentially that's still might be open. Man, I'd like to get you in a few more processes. And you know what I mean, because it's such it's so crunch time right now. Yeah, definitely. Have you done anything with your so much time free time you need like outreach to firms in New York at all?
ANDREW: [00:15:44] It's like nothing, nothing besides Brookfield. Like I've I'm starting to look now like I've got all my LinkedIn alerts set up for summer intern positions. I think I've seen a few come up and like, I'm not to like, shy away from it. Like I've talked to one guy. I basically said put like a fake address, even if it means you have to take like a red eye flight out to take this interview. So I'm not. I'm definitely like, apply to them as as I see them. I think I missed out on like like maybe a boutique investment banks, but I think I think they're still going to be jobs coming out. I'm not. I'm honestly not too worried.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:16:26] They're not all gone, but like, yeah, it's going to be pretty small firms. Yeah, it could be something. If it's an Investment bank and you get some deal, it's still an internship, right? So it's just supposed to be an internship before your senior year. So even if they're like, Hey, we don't have any full time spots, you're like, Hey, that's cool, don't worry about it. You don't pay me much. Just, yeah, let me get that experience. I think that's the key is getting something on your resume for that summer.
ANDREW: [00:16:49] Yeah, absolutely. And kind of on that too. Like I think I think if I practice enough for Brookfield interviews too, I think I can I can really shine like especially just knowing that the other intern For my group who Went there Did the same exact thing as me. And now kind of knowing that she got a full time offer, Brookfield. And knowing that she came from, I think they're going to expect a little bit more from me and kind of like a higher, higher bracket, you know what I mean?
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:17:24] Like in terms of like higher esteem. She got a full-time offer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully. But yeah, I mean. So tell me a little bit more about that firm. And when that when that's coming up?
ANDREW: [00:17:37] Yeah. So with Brookfield, New York, that's next. Next Wednesday, I think More like the Real estate heavy side of things. So not too surprising that you're Going to be Sorry, I'm flying down Now. So it's like a Skype Skype interview for four second round. And I think From what I heard from the other intern who went there, it's all over the phone, so it's Got a better connection for that interview. Oh yeah, definitely. It's it's Rough. It's funny, it's rough. I think it's the building Wi-Fi because I try to do like Facebook calls here too. And it's just It's not good.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:18:24] Yeah. So like, I think if you were to like, you should try to connect your laptop directly to like an Ethernet. Do you have that at home?
ANDREW: [00:18:33] Like, I Just got better Wi-Fi Overall at home, so I may have to do it.
It's like 9:30 in the morning, too. So it's not like midday by any means. So you think You can stay home and do that and then go to work? I could probably swing that. Yeah, I would definitely do that because that could be that could just make the difference, you know, it's just, yeah, absolutely they can, even though it has nothing to do with you. It can be frustrating for the other person on. And they just go complain to your bosses there, but you just can't Try to interview somewhere else. Come on, guys.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:19:14] Yeah, come on, guys. You improve the Wi-Fi so I can go get a job somewhere. You told me you're not going to give me a full time offer unless I get it off somewhere else.
ANDREW: [00:19:21] So the pressure is on you guys.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:19:25] So, OK, so that is sorry. What is that? That's next week.
ANDREW: [00:19:29] Next Wednesday?
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:19:30] Yeah, next Wednesday, OK? And that's that is real estate focused.
ANDREW: [00:19:35] Yeah. And from what I heard with the Other intern too. It's like the technicals aren't exact. Like real estate technicals are like heavy. They're not as heavy as I'd be like. Most of it, like flows pretty well, and it's pretty self-explanatory. Like, what are the terms mean? And like where market's going? Like, I I'm pretty sure I know where most markets Are going and kind of where these groups cover most of their properties. They're kind of where I'm covering most of the properties for XRP now, so it all bodes pretty well.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:20:10] But do you feel like where do you feel like you might need to prep before that? Like, what's your weakest part? Do you feel like? Do you have a specific case? Like, were you able to talk to your analyst at PSV to, like, go through something in detail so you have something you talk through?
ANDREW: [00:20:26] Uh, no, no, so that never worked out, but kind of on that, I do have other analysts that I can talk to and I've I've done like a little bit of modeling myself up at this point. So I would be comfortable, like talking through it. And kind of what I've heard on that is that a lot of the American schools don't have like as heavy real estate programs where they're like having their interns model. So I don't know if just having this experience of being able to in the interviews,
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:20:58] Huge not just the numbers, but just having actually having being able to speak about a specific deal in detail. Yeah, yeah. And just knowing that the numbers around that and why he thought it was a good deal or wasn't a good deal because they are, it is a buy side firm, right? Or is it? Yeah. So it's so yeah, just being able to speak around the specifics of the deal, the then the broad strokes of why that specific market is interesting and the dynamics of the deal, I think would be really helpful to make sure you sound intelligent and you sound polished for the job, I think. The other thing it would be just to know a lot about that firm specifically and the deals data so that you can kind of even integrate that into your answer of what, what interests you about them specifically and definitely talk about the girl that made it from your spot. And have you been able to talk with her?
ANDREW: [00:21:57] Yeah. So I spoke with her earlier this week, and I'm speaking with another Analyst to in the next few days.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:22:03] Yeah, so you spoke to her, I would say, you know, she's come from this and it sounds like she's been really successful. And, you know, I also spoke with XYZ, you know, John Smith, the founder. I really liked what he had to say about this. And so when you're speaking to them, really kind of ask questions about like what the culture like, what's? Do you feel like you're learning a lot? And so that when they say yes and all the stuff, you can kind of reiterate that In the interviews and like just kind of steal their answers for like why this firm?
ANDREW: [00:22:30] Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Because you've done your research, you're very impressed with the deals they've done and their track record. And specifically, these deals seem really interesting. And just to show them not like, don't make it so egregious where it's like you're kissing ass, but just enough, where just enough where they like actually know that you've done your homework and you're not just kind of going in there and winging it and thinking, you're going to get the job because that girl was there. You don't know me. Yeah, absolutely.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:23:00] The key is you don't want to come across as arrogant. You want to come across as super humble, super hungry and just trying to just get your foot in the door. Get your chance. Yeah, definitely. I think if you do that, you'll be in a really good spot for them. So nothing else right now. You're just dropping resumes left and right or how many jobs do you think you're applying to per week right now?
ANDREW: [00:23:23] I think this weekend alone, I think I did three or four. Like, as they come out more and more, I think I think I'll probably start dropping. I don't know as many as I can for however much effort I can put into like a cover letter with saying I've spoken with all these people in it. Yeah, just going from there.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:23:46] Because your resume is long, I think you'll get looks. You just want to make sure that the wave doesn't pass you by too far, you know?
ANDREW: [00:23:53] Yeah, yeah, definitely. People like, look out for me too. If they see, if they see a job that they think I'd like, do well and go forward, that's me. So I've got people looking out for me on That end, and I'm pretty. I'm checking like, I don't Even check like my career Site anymore. So because they post like some terrible jobs, like it's like indeed.com, like Basically a pool Like company, accountant or something like that.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:24:25] That's what happens when you, you know, you're going to non-target, man.
ANDREW: [00:24:30] Now I got the University of Western Ontario. So like the Ivy School business, I got one of my friends there to give me his career center login. So I've been using that. And that's actually how I got the dessert name.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:24:45] Amazing.
ANDREW: [00:24:46] Yeah.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:24:47] Yeah, that's great. It's great. Yeah, any way you can get yourself into that pool is smart. So how can I help you, dude? What's most useful? I would put my camera on so I'm not trying to be. I'm just trying to keep the connection from.
ANDREW: [00:25:00] Yeah, that was fun. Know, like overall. Do you think I have like a hard time just kind of telling my story, so I don't know if you remember like a few calls ago or just kind of going through that. I don't know if that's the hardest part of the interview.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:25:21] The fit, you feel like you're a little bit. Maybe it's a little bit too winding. It's not direct enough or concise.
ANDREW: [00:25:27] Huh. I don't know. Maybe just like the responses to like, oh, like tell me like leadership or like challenges like,
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:25:36] Yeah, I know we talked about that. Yeah, did we did you end up kind of getting setting aside specific stories and examples from those
ANDREW: [00:25:45] So you can? Yeah. Like I have and like The thing is, I actually Haven't bee asked Like those questions since that, like one week And like kind of after that one because Like, OK, well, I totally it bothered me. So I'm just going to start writing these up. So I did that, and I've kind of got a better idea of like how to formulate things.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:26:07] So do you want to practice? Yeah, sure.
ANDREW: [00:26:14] Was wasn't the leadership one or the challenge one?
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:26:19] So do. Tell me about a time when you say, tell me about a time when you were in a group and there is some conflict.
ANDREW: [00:26:31] Whenever I was in a group and there was some
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:26:33] Conflict there that you disagreed with somebody, how did you deal with that?
ANDREW: [00:26:39] Ok. Yeah, so kind of just recently, my school started the CFA Research Challenge, and our group was pretty diverse. A few of the students, like haven't had real internship experience, and they've kind of just based all their knowledge off of what Bloomberg tells them. So on that, like we had an incident come up when we were trying to go through Like the best way to put together a report for the company. So like our basically our equity research report and kind of on that they were disagreeing on like. What's put for the future of the company? It really just referred to what Bloomberg had given them and eyed Me and my other friend Who had this internship experience. We actually did like a deep dive through all these company financials. Their MDNA and actually discovered is pretty much the complete opposite of what the student thought. And from there, we pretty much blatantly showed them, and from then on, like they were on board and we went pretty much as from there.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:27:53] So you're saying you disagreed in the projections? Yeah. And so what were they over projecting or projecting, according to your.
ANDREW: [00:28:03] They'd overprotected just based on the outlook of the company?
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:28:09] And so how did you approach them when you thought that they were wrong?
ANDREW: [00:28:14] A guy just like so we had three people that were on my side and is like the one on the one guy was on his side and from there we basically just. Like, kind of summarize what was in the financial statements, in the documents and kind of outline that summarized it and showed them and they gave it a read over, and from there they were on board.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:28:37] Great. Thanks for that, that example. I'm just taking some notes. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it after you tell me a little bit about. You know, tell me about the time when you kind of had to step up and take a leadership role.
ANDREW: [00:28:55] Definitely, yes, so it was actually during my second summer of working in the Steel warehouse and a lot of the senior employees were getting injured and they actually required surgeries that would put them out of work for Four to Six months. So on that, the plant foreman thought that I would be a good fit for the leadership role, just given my efficiencies and kind of ability to communicate with the senior people on the team. Seeing that I was the Youngest it was is definitely unorthodox, and a lot of the senior members Didn't really want me to take this leadership position because I was so young, but kind of just through proving that I could do the grunt work. And on top of that showing that I could just lead them through loading a bunch of different trucks at night and making sure we got out of the plant when our shift was supposed to end and even a little bit earlier, they came to respect me and I really took. I took hold of that position.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:29:59] Ok, and then you have tell me a little bit more about how they didn't want you to be a leader, how did you when they were told that you were going to be in that position? What did they say to you?
ANDREW: [00:30:11] It wasn't Really Like Verbal, it was kind of More of just than like not doing as much work and kind of pointing me to do a lot of the heavier work and pick up the slack to see if I could actually do the physical labor on top of doing. How did you? I honestly wasn't. I wasn't mad about it by any means like I was. I was kind of expecting it, kind of just seeing that I was the youngest there. They thought that I'd kind of have the most energy and it proved to be true, and it proved that I could lead on top of that and get the organizational stuff done on top of the physical work.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:30:52] Why do you think whoever put you in charge or why do you think he chose you? One. Given that you're so young, why put you in a leadership, why not just put you in a grunt role?
ANDREW: [00:31:03] Well, I'd actually done the grunt role for a whole year, and you kind of a game, Like a few licenses like fall arrest, like truck driving. So like the big like tent on trucks. And on top of that, I did like a lot of the forklift training, so I did all the training that everyone else had and then kind of the foreman ability to see me perform once I had that, that compared To the other more senior employees, he thought that I'd perform better.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:31:36] How are they?
ANDREW: [00:31:37] That's why it's kind of just based on like how quickly the work would be done and how safely it would be done. So some of the other older workers would have like less safe ways of doing things. And I followed the senior workers who'd gotten injured but done things safely in the past, and I watched the way they'd done things. And that's how I performed the job.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:32:03] Ok, then tell me a little bit about just why you want to be in this industry.
ANDREW: [00:32:14] Awesome. Yeah, so all my life, I've really admired high-performing industries, kind of starting at a young age, I'd really take into Premier League Soccer. I realize these athletes devoted their entire lives to The sport That they are in, and they really just gave it their all. They'd go to training for like numerous hours each week, and it was really their life. And then kind of growing up, I shied away from that and I started looking towards career paths that emulated that kind of just starting with like doctors, lawyers and that I've seen it a little bit in accountants. But then once I started connecting with a few people, I saw that more than like bankers and kind of this like real estate financiers. And I'd see that they'd really had a lot of similar characteristics, and I thought that it would be a really good fit for me. Like, I don't want to come across as naive. I know that this industry is going to take a lot of my time and it's there's going to be times where I feel like I'm getting crushed. But at the same time, I want that challenge and I want to dedicate my life to this industry.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:33:20] Security. Sorry, I'm just taking some. Because I think there's some good stuff here. Ok, and then let's talk a little bit about. I want to give you one more kind of
Another one Of you just one more. This little one? Tell me about a time when. You kind of. At a time when you disagreed with your boss.
ANDREW: [00:33:56] Wolf, that's a tough one. I don't know if I've even disagreed with the force up to now, like
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:34:02] Like, did you ever think your boss did something stupid and like, how did you approach them about it? Like, like either your analyst as you're an intern or like they made a mistake or you're doing things wrong. Did you just keep your mouth shut or did you speak up?
ANDREW: [00:34:18] Oh, I'm trying to still think of that time I'm actually having a tough time on that.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:34:23] Ok, OK, so then tell me about a time when. When you had to it's too easy. Tell me about Tell Me About. I'm trying to think of the hard ones like something that you feel like you need a lot of work on still. Like, where were are your weakest link, where if we hire you, what, what are we going to need to train you on the most?
ANDREW: [00:34:54] It's another good one, it's. And that is tough,
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:35:00] He's actually think that's just A question, Just another weakness, questions like This question. So just give me the weakness answer. I just phrased it differently.
ANDREW: [00:35:09] Ok, so like, can you say I can say like, Oh, I really I'd really like to see improvement on my public speaking abilities? Kind of. Is that even like Applicable to some of these, if it's framed like that?
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:35:25] Like, where are we going have to train you? Yeah, you can say, like client facing, you know, I want to improve the way I interact with clients. I think, you know, I have I'm learning the political side, the technical side. I still think I can improve in modeling. But I feel like since I'm so junior and so I'm so young, I feel like one of the more natural areas that there's still a lot of room for. Improvement is just public speaking and interaction with clients. I think that comes with confidence and stuff like that. So I think it's something I can tell you try to improve and get more women around that. So I think that's a great public speaking is a great one because a lot of people have that as a fear And that like Interaction in interviews is super nerve wracking, man.
ANDREW: [00:36:04] So like, I didn't know how to frame it Like, like you just framed it. That was really good.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:36:09] Yeah. So like, I think the public speaking is good but always tied back to the job. So where is speaking important in the job, like presenting in front of clients or presenting to even just your own internally, like your bosses, so that you feel like you need to improve? And that's fine. I think that's very normal for interns and for kids in college. Let's go back to the other ones. Ok?
ANDREW: [00:36:29] Yeah.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:36:32] The first one, it was my question about like when you said the guy that was wrong. But there was a guy who was just pulling off a Bloomberg, the projections and you said something along the lines of like we did a detailed financial dive and did it, and then we showed we just showed him. That question is really trying to get around how you deal with conflict. It's not about showing that you had the right answer. Ok. So it's really about it's not about showing that you had it right and you had the skills because you went to an internship and you and your guy were smart. It was more about how you approach the other guy and how you feel like crap. But being wrong? Ok. So it's like more of a teamwork answer. So you can be like, you know, I think it is delicate. But what we try to do is bring him on alongside us. The group that had a different opinion and showed him some of the more detailed analyses that we had put together to show that we thought the projections were overstated on some of the public sources. And he came, he came. He luckily he came around after that, even though there was, you know, I think he just it was more just a question of he didn't think to do that because you didn't have that experience. But it was. He did initially disagree because he was showing us like these other sources. So yeah, so there's a slight nuance there. So like it felt a little bit when you were telling me about it, like it was like this poor guy. Like, I started feeling bad for the poor guy who was wrong and like being a little naive and you don't want that like you want to be more like,
ANDREW: [00:38:04] We tried to get him on board like as quickly As possible.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:38:07] Yeah, I get on board as gently as possible, not even as quickly as general I heard. It's, you know, not hurt his feelings and just showing that you're cognizant of that and other people's feelings and have that empathy, I think is a really important sure thing to demonstrate. So I really, really loved your examples and your specifics about the forklift and stuff on the. No, that's key, man. Just like the specifics, don't speak less in platitudes and more in specifics.
ANDREW: [00:38:35] Yeah.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:38:36] And you'll be in and you'll be in better shape. And meaning don't give me these broad like I did better, like I did this and like, tell me how specifically. That's what I was trying to drill you a little bit on. Like, Well, how did they measure performance and safety in this? What was it like? Were there any specific metrics will? Not really. But there were people observing us on the floor, you know, taking notes or whatever it was. You know what I mean? Yeah, but I really loved your answer. There in the specifics were great, and it just it made it more tangible. It's like, I can exactly picture it, you know what I mean? I could picture you on the floor. I could. And I loved the fact that they didn't tell you to your face that they didn't want you there. But you still read the body language, you read the email. Maybe they did tell you to f off, and I think you would tell me the best by whatever point is like, your answer was good because it showed like you were picking up on nonverbal cues. Yeah. The other answer was really interesting. For a second, I was worried you started talking about Premier League Soccer and then you kind of, but I liked how you tied it in to like the fact that you were it was a little bit of a long way to get to the doctor, lawyer, banker thing. But I like the lawyer, banker thing, accounting, banking because you kind of were saying you respected that they were so dedicated to their profession. They put in so many hours and you wanted to be. One thing, though, it was a little felt a little flat. When you say, I want to dedicate my life to this industry, it's a little heavy. You know that it's like, wow, like, are you so sure that you want to dedicate your life to this industry? I think it would be better and more genuine. Mm hmm. You come if you say something along the lines of I really want to be in a place where I can just learn as much as I can from really bright people. And I feel like being at this company or being in this industry specifically is going to afford me that opportunity. And so for me, where I'm going to be in five to 10 years is is I'd be lying because I know exactly, but I know that this is going to set me up well in terms of just learning a lot. My first year, I was out of school, and I think that's an honest answer. And I think it's going to get you further than just saying, you know, I'm ready to dedicate my life like a Premier League soccer player. I like Premier League Soccer framing of it. Just get to it fast, the doctor lawyer thing faster. And then I think the fit of this industry, I think, you know, I think how you how you transition to how this is it really? You said real estate finance and whatever banking. I think that was good. I think just the way you ended, it could be a little bit less heavy, like boom, boom. I am going to dedicate my life to that.
ANDREW: [00:41:15] I totally Get it.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:41:16] Important thing is like, you don't want, look, everyone knows you're there's a little bit of sugar coating and all this stuff and you're trying to say what they want to hear. But the more you can be genuine and real with them about don't know as much as what you do know, the more they're going to just like you as a person and say, be like this kid is grounded, like you're just grounded. Good kid, that's a hard working kid. And I. I know you are. And so you want to just get that across and you don't want to be so sound too rehearsed. Yeah. Even though you're going to be rehearsed, you're just going to you're going to be rehearsing the way. That's a genuine rehearsed meaning like the answers you're going to give are going to be more real. Yeah, and I think people will like that educate his kids. He's yeah, he's kind of sugarcoating bullshitting, but like it's not like. And my whole life like that took it like a little bit too much, a little too much sugar on the cup game. You know what I mean? But overall, I thought overall, I thought it was it was strong, man. I think I think you could improve, but I think overall it was good. There were some really good highlights in there. But yeah, just the delivery was good. You weren't like umming and any of that stuff, I think you've clearly improved since. I think we tried this the first time and you wouldn't even do it. Yeah. So I'm proud of you for actually doing it. But yeah, I think I think a lot of that's good, man. I think it's just more about making that connection. Does that make sense? Are those fair criticisms or Makes a lot of sense? It's good to get your take on it, especially the like the leadership one two with like getting into the details versus like the broad strokes in yourself.
ANDREW: [00:43:00] Yeah, I think you can pull in a specific, detailed example like give a little visual or whatever. It makes it all of a sudden they're going to pay attention versus if you're like, and I'm a leader and I, they all didn't like me because of this, I use my charm to turn them around. You know, then everyone's going to be like rolling your eyes and be like, Oh, yawn. Whereas if you're like, Well, I did this and they didn't want me on the forklift, but then I like, you know, this guy throughout his back and they slipped a disc and like, giving those specifics was like, Oh my gosh, like, this is like crazy. Like factory work.
ANDREW: [00:43:33] Yeah, absolutely.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:43:35] So I think it really just it's about becoming a good storyteller. Yeah, it really is like the people who kind of can hold an audience and hold a room. That skill of going into an interview and being able to like, communicate your story in such a way that's vivid. That's that gets across the point that you really. Do you want this job and you're really hungry for it, but not a way of like, that's disingenuous. That's not genuine. Like it's just a genuine desire to learn to be around people that are super smart. And to be honest, you don't know what you don't know and be honest about that. And like, almost like any technical, you get it. Technically, you have no idea. Like, I really have no clue. But even saying I can almost elevate you in their eyes versus trying to go like weasel like BS through it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I actually have no clue what that is, but is that this? And they're like, Yes, you're like, OK, well, then I would approach it by starting here, but then I'm kind of lost. I'm not sure what to do where I'd go next. Framing it like that becomes a much more genuine, likeable thing versus a kid who doesn't kind of knows what it is and just starts kind of just trying to skirt their way through. Does that make sense because you're going to be somebody who knows it perfectly up and down and aces it? But if they don't like him or her as much as they like you, that doesn't really. Okay. Yeah, I think that's hard it's a hard thing to get across because like there's you read all the interview courses and like there's all the sample answers and so you prepare your sample answers and you go in and you forget that like it's just human being across from.
ANDREW: [00:45:18] Yeah.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:45:19] If you were like, you don't want to pretend like you're having a beer and like, start dropping F-bombs in the interview, but you want to almost have that feel of a conversation.
ANDREW: [00:45:29] Yeah, absolutely.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:45:31] And it'll it'll make you more relatable, make it more like likable and the good part is you're really doing a great job at making connections inside of where you're interviewing people who formerly had those interviews. You went through that process. This girl that's been out there. So I think you really want to take advantage of this and not come across as overly polished automaton or however they call it, like a robot. And I don't think you are. I've seen, trust me, I've seen what you just performed was much better than the majority of interviews, mock interviews I've seen. So don't feel like you're far off. You're like, you're a few minor tweaks away from a really polished A-list dancer.
ANDREW: [00:46:13] Ok, awesome.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:46:14] So maybe we can try it again at some point. Maybe next. Well, hopefully next month you're like, I have good news.
ANDREW: [00:46:21] Oh, I hope it's coming this week, actually. Yeah.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:46:25] Yeah, we'll see. But don't get discouraged. If not if. No, no. We'll keep. We'll keep at it. And how else can I help you? I'm glad you brought that up. I'm glad we did that because I think I think it was useful. Anything else I could help you with?
ANDREW: [00:46:40] I don't Know. What would you like to recommend for me kind of going forward? What would you do if you were in my shoes right now?
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:46:49] How is your shoes right now? I would really make sure that, well, number one, you're doing the right thing. You're talking to that other person. I would make sure that when you're in the interview, you use any opening they give you to talk about their firm like or any or the industry or whatever you say that you spoke with them. And. You're doing that legwork that's super important, I think learning about their specific markets, that they're in, specific deals they've done. I think is important before the interview, so I'd focus heavily on that specific interview because it's coming up in eight days. Yeah. So you have a little bit of time, you have the weekend really just focusing on them all about them.
ANDREW: [00:47:39] Yeah, absolutely. And it's real estate manager for your resume screen's real estate, so Kind of like. Absolutely. Oh my God, it's because I did another interview and it was like the one week where I did like Seven and It was for a real estate firm to and they'd had like 600 applicants and they'd only interviewed like 15 for the first round. And then she told me that she's like, Yeah, real estate, real estate, real estate. I'm like, Yeah, yeah. And I didn't even get a second round to them. She was talking about like the golden retrievers and stuff on my resume and everything like I thought I had it in the bag.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:48:18] Yeah, it's the thing is, you've got to like, always assume that they're judging you. Oftentimes, they'll be chummy, chummy with you, judging you. So don't assume chummy. Chummy means you're in because if you get too confident or cocky or comfortable, they take that as almost as a sign of like, Oh, this kid thinks he has it right? Yeah. So you got to make sure that you remain super humble throughout the whole thing, even if they're being chummy, chummy with you.
ANDREW: [00:48:47] Mm hmm.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:48:48] That's a really that's a little trap that a lot of people will set to see if you're like, You know what I mean?
ANDREW: [00:48:53] Yeah, that makes sense.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:48:56] So even even with those odds going from six hundred fifteen, there's still only what they're probably only offering, like three or four internships.
ANDREW: [00:49:04] I think is like once they narrow down like the 15 to like six.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:49:09] Yeah, so that's my point. So yeah, it's still your odds are horrible. Yeah. So your odds are really bad. So it's not just about like being chummy, chummy, it's actually being chummy, chummy, good plus nailing the technicals plus keeping super sharp plus seeming humble. And so it's like you've got to check so many boxes. Yeah. So it's like crazy, but don't, but don't let that discourage you. You probably did have a really good thing. You could have been like No. 20 you could. It have been like No. Six or seven and they only brought in six back, you know? Yeah. So it doesn't mean that you didn't do well, it's just I think, listening to your fits. Listen to your questions. I think the I think you run the risk of coming across as that, especially if you're like doing the whole thing, the dropping, the like, my life dedicating my life, things like that. If you do too much that it could come across as like, OK, this kid is just blowing smoke. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think that's if you tighten that up a little bit and just share a little bit more straight. I think there's an in the fit course in the behavior. Of course, there is some examples about like banking that's applies to like any of these jobs, like real estate finance, real estate, private equity. I think it says in there like literally a simple answer about working with smart people, and I definitely incorporate that. You know, the stuff that excites you, you think you're going to learn a lot. And just being in a good company, that's great reputation where you're surrounded by people who are going to kind of. I'll teach you a lot and you'll get actual transaction work. Of does that make sense?
ANDREW: [00:50:48] Yeah, yeah, it's good.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:50:52] Anything unfair that I said,
ANDREW: [00:50:54] No, no, it's all it's it's all good to take in. I pretty much need anything I can get at this Point.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:51:02] I think continue to stay humble and try to be as real with these these people without crossing the line of too informal. Yeah. So it's like this weird balancing act of like, you want it to be a conversation, but you don't want to look so comfortable because then that can become across as disrespectful or overly cocky, but just want to, like, make it like a conversation in the sense of like, you're actually really interested in this stuff and you're very excited about this job, but you're not coming across as like some uber goober robot nerd. Yeah.
ANDREW: [00:51:33] Yes.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:51:34] So I'm going to trademark that uber goober robot. So anyways, I'll let you ride, man. I know you're super busy, so definitely I'll take. I haven't even looked at your updates. I'm going to go look through that. And if there's anything else that like jumps into my head when I'm looking at those, I'll tell you on Skype and we go from there. Yeah, we can go from there. And then let me know if you want to just even hop on for 10, 15 minutes before we try to grab some more time before your interview. And we'd have to like it or anything. We'll just get on there and just do. We can run through the fits again, the fit questions again, if you want.
ANDREW: [00:52:14] Yeah, sounds good.
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:52:16] Thank you. All right. Good luck. And yeah, have this weekend.
ANDREW: [00:52:21] All right. Thanks, man. Take it easy
PATRICK (CEO OF WSO): [00:52:23] To talk to you. Bye, bye bye. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.
or Want to Sign up with your social account?