Monkey to Millions | John (Session 2) - Two Interview Processes w Conflicting Times - Oct 22, 2019

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In John's second session, we cover how to navigate the process of conflicting interview schedules. Do a quick resume review of his updated resume and then cover over how to position himself for the upcoming interviews.

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Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:04] Well. Hello and welcome, I'm Patrick Curtis, chief monkey of Wall Street Oasis, and this is monkey to millions. A show where you get a front-row seat as I mentor young students and professionals to try and help them break into their dream jobs in the first cohort. You'll meet four students, all preparing for intense job interviews while trying to also balance a personal life and schoolwork. The goal of this show is to shine a light on the struggles of trying to break into competitive positions with a non-traditional background and to give you a roadmap for your own success. My hope is that as you get to know these four impressive students, you're inspired to dream big. Remember, these are real people, and this is their true story. Let's get to it. In John's second session, we cover how to navigate the process of conflicting interview schedules. We also do a quick resume review of his updated CV and then cover how to position himself for the upcoming interviews. But

John: previous few weeks leading up to this session.

John: [00:01:30] Awesome, so week one is in the books. I had my first session with Patrick last Monday. We updated my resume and then also went over networking strategies, how to keep track of your emails going out and how to keep track of responses coming in. So I've been sending emails this week. Not so, not as many as I'd like to send out, just because it was a start school this week, plus trying to figure out how to juggle my internship at the same time with the part-time hours. Also, we had fraternity recruitment, which occupied a lot of my time. But this weekend I was able to schedule a lot of emails to go out today, this morning, so I already started hearing back some responses, so I'll keep you updated with that. A lot of the banks I've been targeting a middle market boutique specifically in L.A., San Francisco, and Chicago, and I know I need to expand my reach. So this week I'll definitely be focusing on that as well. I like the. Ok. Sweet Week two. Not as active as I'd like to be schools picking up for sure. And it was my mom's birthday, so I had to go back home for the weekend. But over the course of the week, I sent 30 emails. I got seven responses and I had three calls and then also set up two calls for this week. And last night I sent 20 emails to go out this morning, as well as like maybe seven to eight LinkedIn connections like with little notes. It's been difficult to figure out who and when you should hit these guys up, because a lot of the firms and banks I'm targeting are middle market to boutique banks, and a lot of them are hiring as a need basis, which is totally different than the year-round cycle. So one analyst this past week told me to hit up his associate a few weeks from now, like mid-October, just because he doesn't know if they're going to need people come June or July. Also funny enough, I have a coffee chat with a senior director of a consulting firm in L.A. this week just because I networked with one of their analysts on a one-off basis over the summer. So we'll see how that comes. Not my primary objective right now, but you know, if it goes well, I'll take it like I'm. All right. It's Week three of school and week three of updates. I have a first-round in-person consulting interview this Friday with Oliver Rosenworcel and then another first-round phone call with EPT partners in two weeks from now. Still networking, but not as much as I'd like to send out maybe like 20 emails this morning and had about three phone calls last week. Actually, one of them is pretty funny. It turned into an interview. I guess phone call went pretty well, and then he automatically started asking me technical questions. It went well. For the most part, I stumbled on one, so I don't know if that is grounds for not moving forward. Schools, schools picking up midterms, I won midterm this week, so it's hard, it's been hard juggling that my internship as well as, you know, trying to land and recruit a full-time offer did kind of poorly on a quiz last week. So not used to seeing that. But I guess it's motivation to stay on top of that, so we'll see how it goes. I'm excited for the interview this week, though,

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:05:07] So this is kind of the second session, right, man? Yeah, you've had some crazy updates since our first session. You had a first-round interview with consulting firm, right? That's right. And you made it to final round, which is this Friday, which is cool. And then you have a first-round with a boutique investment bank in S.F. Right? Mm hmm. That's right. So I know those guys, I think, is probably going to be technical. So do you? Right now, it's still scheduled during the Super Day, right?

John: [00:05:43] Yeah, I'm going to get back to the model just because then you get it back to my email yesterday.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:05:47] So what did you say? Just the HR person and the person who said you had an interview?

John: [00:05:51] Yeah, just the women that reached out to me. I can tell you what. Yeah, said I pretty much just rephrased what you told me to say, and she didn't get back to me. So.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:06:02] Hmm. Ok.

John: [00:06:06] And I sent you over to me.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:06:10] Isn't it cool? Yeah. This is a new resume that you did.

John:  [00:06:14] Yeah. So format.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:06:17] Perfect. Let me take a look here. I'll pull it up, so you're kind of in a tough spot because you have the consulting interview this Friday, but you are definitely interested in banking. Oh, interesting, so this stuff you highlighted in yellow, why did you highlight that in yellow,

John:  [00:06:36] Just because it's like a first rough draft of what I wrote put together, so hoping to get some feedback on that?

Patrick (CEO of WSO)00:06:44] Let me take a quick look. So you know your GPA looking good? I mean, everything is looking pretty strong here, especially since you had that summer analyst spot and you're able to do some work, did you do any? Elevation acquisition targets in. Did you actually do the valuation stuff for that transaction for Harvey?

John:  [00:07:07] Yeah, yeah. It was just mere like taking EBITDA and. Multiplying it by multiples that they would give us, it wasn't anything too crazy, like at B. Riley, I'm actually putting together models and different valuations, so that's

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:07:24] Where all the transactions. Have you had any chance to do actual yourself study how mergers? That's good.

John: [00:07:33] Mm hmm. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:07:35] Yeah. Because if you're not doing any like three statement financial modeling.

John:  [00:07:39] So we did that, yeah, we just did that. Yeah, I made this resume before I did that. I just did have this past two weeks.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:07:48] You put that in, you put that in. I haven't, but I will. Yeah, definitely put that in, especially under skills like one of the first things should be like financial modeling listed there.

John:  [00:07:59] Ok, got it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:01] Just to check the box because like you have a lot of the, you know, you have some DCF LBO merger, you have a lot of like good keywords up here and you're quantifying nicely, but just want to make sure you're hitting every single possible keyword that you know there's this resume screen, you know what I mean? And I think the format looks great. I love the WCL resume format. Surprise, surprise. But yeah, it saves you a lot of space up top and everything. Ok, so but you don't have your do you have your address here?

John:  [00:08:31] Looks like home address? No, I didn't put that there.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:36] I put it up there. Hi there. I think people, in case I don't know, maybe it's kind of old school. But now, I don't know, I don't think you even need it because you have all your contact info.

John:  [00:08:47] Yeah, it's not putting my home address like possibly a couple of months ago.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:08:52] Cool, so. So you did that first round consulting interview with Alvarez and Marshall it. You didn't think it went well, but you still got the final round. Yeah. Tell me about that. Is there like any sort of tie with your school or like, how did you even land that offer or that just pure, pure networking?

John:  [00:09:11] So I actually reached out to an analyst there who hopped on this summer thinking that he was an I b because the way that they labeled their

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:09:23] I guess so you didn't even know his consulting. Did you say I'd be in the networking email?

John:  [00:09:28] Yeah. And he was like, Oh, we're not, I'd be, but I'm like, I'm doing consulting. Want to learn more about that? Like, I'm more than happy to talk to you. And I was just like, You know what? Sure. Like, you know, I'm never going to turn down a call and use super nice to talk to me. And then I send my resume. And he said, This is pretty strong and you send it over to the senior director. And then a month later, I hop on the phone with the senior director and basically said the same thing. And then a week after that, which was. Three weeks ago or two weeks ago, I can't remember. I went, yeah, I went down to Carlsbad and met with a senior director that's located down to San Diego for like a two and a half-hour coffee chat.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:10:07] So that was like a first-round kind of thing, I guess.

John:  [00:10:10] Like, that's a. Half-round, like it wasn't.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:10:14] Did he give you any like case interviews or anything like that?

John:  [00:10:17] No, it was just pure like conversational, trying to get to know each other. And he just told me a lot about himself and his background. And then. You know, the next day they said, Oh, you got the first round interview next Friday. So is this past Friday? Went there pretty nervous? So it was 30 minute behavioral, then 30 minute case study. Behavioral was different because they didn't. They didn't, really. It was to be one. They didn't really ask me, which I've never been in a two v one situation. Yeah, actually, I take that back at Disney. I wasn't to be ones, but it wasn't as curious as it was with Anna.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:10:57] Was it good cop, bad cop situation where one was really mean to you and one was like, really nice.

John:  [00:11:02] I would, I would say so. The senior director was really.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:11:07] You're breaking up for a second. Oh, sorry. The senior director was what was

John:  [00:11:13] Yes, the director was a little mean and then the manager was a little nicer on that front. Like kind of clarifying questions at the senior director was asking me and he was like, Yeah, if you need a minute, just like, think about it, can you just like, go, go, go.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:11:26] And so what? What are the type of what were the type of questions like, tell us about a time you struggle or like stuff like that?

John:  [00:11:32] Was basically tell us about a time you worked with a team and you guys had some conflict. Tell us about a time where you had to take one for the team. Tell us about a time where you contributed a bigger portion to a team like that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:11:50] And then did you have enough stories to pull from or did you start running out?

John:  [00:11:54] I pulled. I pulled enough stories. It got down to the last couple of questions where I pulled stories from the same source. So it's pretty good up until like the last two questions.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:12:05] Yeah, it sounds like they kept asking you like group teamwork questions, and if you only have two or three, there's five of them. It can get tough. Yeah. Ok, so it sounds like you didn't do that poorly, but the case was a kind of bomb. The case?

John:  [00:12:20] Yeah, I thought I bombed the case at least. So the case was this home retail repair shop. Kind of. They explain it like kind of like Home Depot. They have an installation services division that they're trying to grow from four percent to six percent from eighty-five billion to, I guess it was like ninety five billion ILIU billion. Yeah. So yeah, and this is a current client, too. So I mean, I broke it down just like I did in the framework. I first started off with a profit and then I went straight to three seasons and one P. And I basically how it is laid out in the book, I started asking questions like I read right upon and there wasn't any data or guidance that they gave me. They just they were.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:11] So what was the prompt like? They said, What would you do like, you know, their installation business? Yeah. What was the then? What was the yes?

John:  [00:13:21] Sorry about that, so it was I was yeah, we're trying to expand this like product line within five years. How would you do it? And they gave me three options. One was internally growing it, one was through acquisition, one was through franchising. And then through that there, like the competitors were like other retailers like us, like mom and pop shops that also do retail, but also did like installation services and then pure installation service plays. So I couldn't get any data from them at all.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:54] I wouldn't tell you any margin or profit data or anything like that. They just wanted to see how you would think. So they wanted to see like, how are you talking about how should you look at acquisition versus internal growth, putting in capital for like marketing versus like costs and customer acquisition versus like buying a whole new company? Talking about that, you know what I mean? That's probably what they are. Yeah, I guess it's getting at.

John:  [00:14:18] I yeah, I just it just realized like it hit me today that maybe there wasn't like an answer since like so like a live deal.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:26] Yeah, it's not necessarily. Yeah, it's more like, how do you think through the problem and how granular were you able to get in terms of like structuring the problem? Mm hmm. Great, I mean, it's a final round, they don't feel like you have to find an answer, and if they're super vague about not giving you information, really, just try to structure things out and you can just even start making assumptions. So it sounded like they gave you some data, they said, like top-line revenue. That's it was eighty-five billion for the whole company. Mm hmm. And they're looking to grow installation from six to eight percent.

John: [00:14:59] Or two, six,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:00] Four to six percent, so, you know, doing some back of the envelope math, you could start with that and be like, OK, well, so four percent. It's what is that? So 10 percent would be eight point five billion, four percent of that. So about half of that was about four billion. Just say so, it's about $4 billion.

John:  [00:15:19] Three point five.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:20] Yeah. So you're more active than just doing it in my head. But yeah,

John: [00:15:25] I had to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:15:25] Yeah, it was. So that's fine. So like, yeah, three-point five, four billion, whatever. And it grows up to. And they're trying to get that to four point five, so like. Yeah.

John:  [00:15:36] So became five billion. So, yeah, that I got to that part with like seven minutes to spare. And then once five minutes it, they're like, OK, like we only have five minutes. Come to the conclusion. But like. I was like, OK, well, based off our timeline and the race we're trying to hit, as well as like the expertise of installation services that we're trying to hit. I would definitely go with franchising just because of these costs, culture and like other things that I see. Conclusion. Then give you three reasons why like so yeah, that that that was that. And I walked out feeling miserable. But, uh, you know, come Monday, I got the call in the morning and that was a good feeling. So nice. Yeah, there's only five finalists to so should be pretty one

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:31] For one spot.

John:  [00:16:33] Last year, they took on three analysts, so I'm feeling good.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:38] That would be a good job, right? Right at a school, honestly, like that's not anything to scoff at. I think it's a pretty good salary. It's a known firm, you know, it's not like some no name. Yeah, a consulting firm. So that would be a good start. The question will be how much time they gave you. You know what I mean? If you're like, you have to accept on the spot like boom and put that pressure on you or can you actually leverage it?

John:  [00:17:04] That's what I'm trying to do or thinking of doing if given the opportunity.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:08] Well, that is EFT. The question is, can you ping anybody in the next? What is it? What day is it today, Tuesday? Hmm. These next few days are like make or break man, not just for the Prep, but for the. Actually, I think you should be reaching out to like every single bank, every single contact you've had previously at a bank. I'm in a Super Day this Friday. I was just wondering how the, you know, if there's any seats was opening to I'm still really interested in your firm, blah. As soon as you have a Super Day and or you're like in air, if you're flying to a region on somebody else's dime or whatever and you're like, oh, I'm here because Goldmans find me, I've interviewed all of a sudden everyone's like, Boom, everyone will be like, Oh yeah, come in. We want to. We want to take you to. Or actually, yeah, there is a seat open. Well, if they're interviewing you that we want to interview you too. So that's the tough part is the timing of it all because like, it becomes really condensed in terms of like as soon as you go into that final round. If they have, they give you an offer like literally that day. Mm hmm. Oftentimes, they'll be like, OK, we'll give you a week. And then like, it's not even it's like a race, you know what I mean? Yeah. Makes sense. So you want to like if you can be doing that now and prep people and then like Friday, if you get it, be like, Hey, did get the offers or any accelerated processes here. I don't want to let that opportunity slip through blah. And to be honest, if you didn't have anything lined up, you should absolutely take it.

John: [00:18:44] You know. Gotcha.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:46] Ok, always, there's always you go work there for a year, you develop, you do a lot of self-study. You grow up a little bit. You network like a maniac. You know, getting consulting to Ibe isn't unheard of. Do you know what I mean? Especially if you start, you understand that the game. So if you did want to get to IBM, it's not like you could never do it. You know what I mean, especially with your resume being strong. Keep the GPA up and with all the other finance stuff. With that, some random spot on your resumes, you know, two of semifinalist spots. So.

John:  [00:19:19] Makes sense. Ok, so quick question. Yeah, shoot. Oh, about the final round, so they told me it's gonna be two forty-five-minute behavioral and then one group case study interview. So I don't know. I can't. I feel like I can't really prep for the case study, but I can like understand the basic frameworks. There is going to be a presentation part to it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:48] So did you see all the cases at the back of our consulting case interview course?

John:  [00:19:53] I also want to look through the first three.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:56] Yeah, yeah, go through those because there's a lot of it helps seeing the actual frame, how to use the frameworks in different types because there's only like 10 different types of cases, really, and there's little variations on them and stuff like that. But if you if you're familiar with how to potentially break down a problem and you're in a group setting, somebody starts off saying, Oh, I think we should do this, this or this, and you have a really good kind of approach to it based on something you had read there in terms of like why should also break down what we should start with also pricing price times, quantity to get their debt into our gross profit, whatever, whatever it happens to be. If you can throw that out there while they're like, I guess they're observing you in a group case. Like how you work with. Yes. Are they? Is there a culture super like teamwork, rah type culture or what's their culture like? Is it more nerdy? Is it more like, you know?

John:  [00:20:52] More, yeah, I guess it's more like teamwork rah rah and then like having fun, it's just like one of their core values, but they seemed like really stern, like being around them. Yeah. Super, super straight and being straight to business,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:10] Straight to business. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um huh. So if that's the case, I would really like. I would try to like when you're in the team case, I'd be very careful about like make sure you're not stepping on people's toes and stuff. Make sure you're heard at least once or twice, but you can get the offer saying just one or two really good things. You don't have to dominate the conversation.

John:  [00:21:40] Ok, got it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:41] Like a couple things you could say that just help add to the case or actually trying to include other people like you say this and be like, I love to hear, you know, I know you had this background. I'd love to hear what you have to say. You're trying to include everybody, but also be really good. It's funny because you mentioned there was an I had an interview with a guy today who was talking about group interviews at E and Y and how like, I'm like, Dude, how do people like, what do you do if there's a guy who's just dominating the conversation or a girl who just won't stop talking? You know what I mean? He's like, Well, it looks bad for them. It can make other people look bad because then they try to interject and he's like, It's just one of those things you have to try and do it respectfully, you know? Even if you disagree with the approach, you don't be like, no, that's wrong. It's just how you do it and how much tact do you have? Gotcha. So they're seeing not just like if you say the right thing in the case, it's not about getting the right answer so much as the intergroup dynamics and how you play within those. That makes sense. So, like they're observing as much like how you interact with everybody and like how respectful you are and they still want to see that you have a brain on your, you know that you ask good questions and or you say something semi intelligent, but. Really, just try and be respectful and, you know. Yeah, I think I think you'll be in good shape,

John: [00:23:11] So I'm feeling a little more at ease this week than last week.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:17] Yeah, I mean that you bomb the case and you still made it to final rounds. So like that should tell you like it's not. There's no right answer. They liked you as a person, which I think can go a long way that can carry you all the way. As long as you say a couple smart things, you say like one really smart thing and they really like you as a person and they're like, Wow, that was really sharp. What he said there, boom. That's enough to like, carry you all the way as long as you don't like, put your foot in your mouth in some other cases like that. Yeah, you'd be surprised, like how much likability comes into these things, especially with all the fit. So on the fit stuff, do you feel like you have enough like it might make sense if there their teamwork, teamwork, teamwork, it might make sense to actually come up with one or two more other stories.

John:  [00:24:02] Yeah, that definitely helped.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:04] So, like, whatever. B. Riley, did you have anything from your time there yet? I know it's only been a couple of months, but any specific. Group work you've done or teamwork.

John:  [00:24:16] Yeah. Like, I guess the only teamwork I'd be really that I've had is with the other intern, usually like the associate brings us into your room, gives us an update on whatever project he's working on and then gives us a piece of a SIM to work on. Or it gives us like a one-pager or industry report to work on, or it gives us a piece of a model he wants us to put together. And then we'll basically go back to our desks and we'll split it up amongst ourselves. And that's really it. That's I think that's the extent of teamwork.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:48] Has it been tough to do that?

John:  [00:24:50] Has it been

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:51] Tough? Like because if I take a small project, you guys both want to do it or.

John:  [00:24:57] I mean, if it's really small, if we both think we can do it, we usually both do it individually. Yeah, we both do individually, just consolidate our work together just because of the associate and we think it's a good exercise for all of us.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:13] Yeah. Ok. This is associated with compiling battery factory companies legal financial paperwork for disclosure schedule. Yeah, you may eliminate that. Which, like, like compiling paperwork? Well, it isn't. And we all know that's like what the internships are like. There's a lot of that, but you don't necessarily need to highlight it, you know what I mean?

John:  [00:25:40] Ok, yeah, I have an I have more to add to this now than what I did since our last call.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:47] No, it's totally fine. It's really fine. Send me an updated one because I think. As early as tomorrow, if not tonight, you're not going be sending a resume, but somebody may ask you for an updated resume tomorrow if you reach out to some people tonight, early tomorrow in terms of Hey, I got to find around this Friday at a consulting firm still interested in banking, I didn't know if there were any seats, have you? So let's go. Let's go over that. Let's go over a little bit like your networking where your status is in terms of like connections that you have that work in banking that you've had like informational interviews with. What's that list look like, right? Like, what does it look like? The list that people like, is it five people?

John:  [00:26:31] I would say the list that I'm pretty close with is maybe five people I can maybe add one more to that, but they're looking for like experience hours. But I would

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:43] Say no entry-level like opening process going on any of them.

John:  [00:26:48] Yeah, no. One of them said they're going to start in November because they're  two shops in Seattle, but they're trying to build out their offices down here in L.A. as well. So that was like that piqued my interest once Cascadia Capital and the other is JD Marriott. Yeah. So the JD Marriott, there were two banks that recently merged, and they're trying to build out their analyst program right now. So they're going to fill a lot of spots soon, but they're not going to start till February, which is really late. And then, yeah, Cascadia, Cascadia.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:25] But that's also good if it's good, if it's late, if you don't end up getting this offer, you have like a lot of time to prep. Yeah, with your connections, you at least get a first round, you know what I mean? And be ready.

John:  [00:27:39] Yeah, you're

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:39] Right. So I mean, what I'd say to you is. Yeah, let's talk about networking, man, because like you're I don't think you're going to have time from now until Friday to, like build any sort of relationship, but we want to make sure if like November, December, January comes around and there's another like you make it to another Super Day, all, let's say like you have that group of five jumps up to 10 to 15 and then all of a sudden one of those 15 is like, actually, we just had an analyst spot open up. This guy just left and we're looking to hire one and you're like, Yeah, yeah, that's me. So that's why you want to be around the hoop. You know, you want to definitely get on people's radar as like a smart guy. You know, a guy that's thoughtful, a guy that's definitely showed a lot of interest in banking. I mean, the beauty is now you have a second internship here. Right. So it's really strong. Yeah, another minor thing under Harvey, just say investment banking summer analyst to because you said to Mr. McFall analyst just drive it home. Like, Yeah, he's like,

John:  [00:28:43] Yeah, I wasn't too sure about that because, you know, Harvey, like I said, it's like not necessarily like I wouldn't be able to invest.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:51] Ok, OK. Fair buy side advisory.

John: [00:28:56] Yeah, it was by side advisory, yeah,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:59] So that's pretty banking ish.

John:  [00:29:03] Ok.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:04] Least your time, your time there, do you know what I mean? So I think. Let's go over, yeah, let's just go over your now your networking stuff and like a plan of action there, because no matter what happens is Friday, whether you get the offer or not. I think there needs to be a lot of legwork between now and the next our next session. Great. If you get the offer. Yeah, we can have, you know, have drinks and celebrate. And you know, yeah, we can still be in touch and everything. But if if you don't get it, I want to make sure you're putting in the love like you already have the groundwork in place so that as we get later in the year, you're not just relying on these like one-off tiny boutiques that, oh, they decided not, they're not going to open in L.A. And then you're like, oh, I was relying on that, you know what I mean? The other thing is like flood programs. Have you started talking to anybody in Corp Fin or corporate finance or corporate development? I haven't. No, you should definitely be talking to those people, I mean, those are some great programs, transaction advisory services at the bank for those kids always jump to banking.

John:  [00:30:10] Yeah, I've seen that a lot. Would you just recommend just like cold emailing them like I have been with?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:17] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Anybody that went to Irvine and I bet you, Irvine, everyone's not like a tiny school, right?

John:  [00:30:26] Well, we get a lot of big boys that come to our school.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:28] Yeah. So like any Big Four Irvine alum, like, I hope you haven't missed the boat, you know what I mean? Be like Transaction Advisor Services really interests me. I've done a lot of investment banking work and it's related that you have a really easy in terms of like and I've been doing my research and this looks like a potential career that would interest me. They may call you out and be like, why not just go to banking, be like, Well, and then you can just be very straight with them, be like, be like, I am interested in banking as well. I just, you know, I don't think I'd be as I'm not as arrogant to think that that's automatic. Do you know what I mean? So I'm looking at like the big four have a great reputation for tips so that you don't have to lie and be like, Oh, I would never go. I want to go, it's more than banking, you know what I mean? But you don't. You can say, like, I think Tess is a great place to learn. There's a lot of smart people, blah. Yeah. But I would focus on Young Professionals alum first that went to Irvine that are in tears. That's like your number one, then just talk to anybody in the big four that went to. Sorry, alum. And then you went at the big four that is in this. And so, like almost in that order, right? Because the alarm are going to be the highest hit rate, the people in tears, if you have like a good story about it, like. Then I think you could get a decent hit rate. So the question is, how do you find these people right? Linkedin, obviously. Is that what you've been doing where you've been doing most of your stuff?

John:  [00:32:04] Yeah, basically, most of my research has been LinkedIn, and then from there I either reach out to them through that or

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:09] So you have over five hundred connections. Remind me, did you have that before?

John:  [00:32:13] No, not. I built that over the summer. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [00:32:17] Ok, nice. That's good. So. I think it's really important that over the next couple of months, no matter what happens on Friday and even if you get the offer man, because if you get the offer and you accept it, can you eventually want to make that transition or leave that door open? You should keep networking through your senior year. You're never going to. I know, I know. It's a lot. You're juggling a lot. I heard one of your updates like, I have midterms, I'm doing recruiting and I have all this other stuff I get. I get it. But it's like, it's still going to be one of the easier times, you know because when you first come out of school, they just work you.

John:  [00:32:55] I believe it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:57] Yeah. So. So what I'd say is just like. Really, really. Let's well, let's go over like, what are you sending people that first email? Let's even just dive into it. Do you want to share your screen or do you want to just read it to me, that's fine either one.

John:  [00:33:15] Yeah, yeah, I can share my screen. Let's see. More options share screen.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:23] So, like, how many people have you reached out in the last like since our first session? Have you reached out to? Not a lot. 20, 50, 100, 50 maybe.

John:  [00:33:32] And I've been using all these follow-ups like all these. See this inbox. Most of them, not all of them are. Right-back out. Yeah, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:43] Like we discussed.

John:  [00:33:44] I just follow up first and then I went back to writing box. But basically, this is what I say. Whether it's. On LinkedIn or via email, do you see my screen?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:58] No, it's OK, though. But how are you? Are you even? It's bottom right-hand corner. It looks like the two little square right on top of each other. There we go. Cool. Yeah. My name. My name is Jim. I'm an incoming senior. Uc Irvine right now is my full-time investment banking opportunity. This fall was hoping to speak with you about your career and Typekit bear. We got the privilege of 15 minutes when you're available. Thank you. Ok, so you're using follow-up exec. So you've got no response there, right? Mm hmm. Ok. And so how did you find this contact specifically? He would alum.

John:  [00:34:36] On LinkedIn, I think I mentioned this on my past call there. I mean, I've hit up all the UCI alumni that I found and I'd be over the summer. Actually, one of them was from or an alumni of my fraternity, and he's he got poached from Daniel to GS. But that was just recently. So we can't do much for me there.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:57] Got it. Ok, so he's kind of said, sorry, I'm like two junior or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John:  [00:35:04] He's actually VP, but he's a super knew. Pretty much say the recruitment is already closed. He was nice enough to, like, have a few phone calls on over the summer and kind of guide me

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:14] At the end of those calls. Are you asking for like anybody else? He knows that. You think he thinks you should? Yeah.

John:  [00:35:19] Did he actually? Yeah, you're right, the mini two, a couple of people at Baumel, but they never like got back to me, like, this is one of them who referred to me. There's like a. Like, yeah, this second like follow-up email over here is where I kind of like stumble because I basically just repeat the same thing.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:39] Yeah, I wouldn't do that. Because I think they can always go back at the chain and look. Yeah.

John:  [00:35:51] Yeah, he actually did respond after.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:55] So this week, he would say.

John: [00:35:58] Yeah. And then I basically gave my availability. I'll shoot. And then. Basically hit them up a few more times after that, we never really

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:08] Listened to the new data. Yeah, yeah, we can. And he jus you called them and he can pick up.

John:  [00:36:17] Restart. Yeah. And then basically just left me on red, a double texted him to man,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:27] You texted in his phone to.

John:  [00:36:29] No, no, no, no, I'm just saying like as a reference like I double emailed him, but that's just like one of the guys that my alumni contact referred me to. But there are still. Yeah, there's still a lot more people that need to reach out to, but that's basically my email or go-to email. Um.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:59] Yeah, about your career and time at the social capital. Ok? Does that structured capital looks slightly different than the rest of the text? Um, you've got to be careful when you're cutting and pasting. Google does this sometimes we're like highlights the text of like something that's copy and paste it in like purple or whatever. Just.

John:  [00:37:24] Oh, it's black. Yeah, I make sure

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:27] You like formatting and stuff before we send it. Yeah, I always make sure I

John:  [00:37:32] That's something I messed up on, like early at my time at Disney and I got yelled at. So I learned I learned pretty early, so always check my emails.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:42] No. So I like this. I like your intro. I'm applying for full-time investment banking opportunities this fall. I wouldn't capitalize investment banking or a full time. This fall, I was hoping to speak with you about your career and time at it. You usually say about your time just so you can get rid of your career. You say about your time at work or they appreciate you speaking to you 15 minutes when you're whenever it's best for you, you could say. And then I would actually let give them some times that you're open would any time between it and just make it like a wide window. Especially at night, because some kids don't get out like you can do, like four p.m. to 9:30 p.m., four p.m. to 11 p.m. on like Monday through Friday or whatever it is Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, whatever like give them a really wide window. So that you're showing like you'll do basically whatever. So. It sounds like you did speak with this person, Alan, specifically, but how did that go?

John: [00:38:49] He never yeah, I never got back to this email and I go, OK, yeah, I need to get back to him. Yeah. Like after. Yeah, like two weeks ago, it was just strictly like grinding for like the consulting interview, plus the terms just because like I had no like the entire summer, I was like studying for technical interviews and then I got hit with the offer. Yeah. So I had to do a full shift the past week and a half.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:16] Yeah, to get ready for the consulting.

John:  [00:39:19] Just to give it the best shot I could.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:21] Yeah. So definitely follow up with all these people. I mean, these guys are in banking, right?

John:  [00:39:27] Mm hmm. You're right.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:28] Yeah, definitely follow up here. Try to keep the try to get some phone calls going and then be smart about the questions you asked them specifically about the firm. Know something about the firm and be interested about the firm specifically before you get on the call. So you need at least 15 20 minutes to prep for the call before you get on. Like, look at their LinkedIn look at where they've been in the past. Ask them like, OK, why was that? Why did you make that transition? Tell me more about that desk. Tell me more about that specific type of deal you do. Oh, that's really interesting. And then he may start asking you questions. You go into your experience in your background and you can just say, I'm just really trying to learn as much as possible right now and speaking to as many people as I can. And that it's not worse, you don't ask for a job, you don't ask for anything. Typically, if they like you, it'll be pretty much automated thing where it's like, Well, you know, I'll put you in. There's, you know, we might be looking for somebody later this year and you could take some notes specifically around. You can take some notes specifically around, like when there might be looking. And then he says, like February or March, we might be looking then like in January or early, early February, you should be having a reminder pop up there with a note on it. And I know, right? Inbox allows you to put a note there that's private to yourself. Or you can do that, your spread, do you have a spreadsheet that's organizing all this or not? Yeah. Yeah. So you could just put it in your spreadsheet that has conditional formatting that pops up read like when you're supposed to fall off with them. Gotcha. So that way, it's like you don't miss shit. Nothing falls through the cracks because like people tell you this in sales like if you start letting things fall through the cracks, you're just your odds plummet enormously. Even with us. When I'm trying to book and I'm trying to book guests for a podcast, we send out a blast email, I think, to a couple of thousand people with former investment banking experience. And I got flooded. I just got absolutely hammered. And it would have been easy for me to, like, follow up with some people like, Yeah, what's this about? And I would send an email. But then, like, they wouldn't respond, I didn't let it go. Like, I'd be like, hey, just seeing if we could just grab a time to chat like three weeks later or a week later and then again, he got we got ignored. Then three weeks later, I'd be like, Hey, just really was hoping to chat for five minutes and then boom, lots of times at that third or second or third when they're like, fine or they're like after that third one, I'm like, OK, I get the hint like they're not interested. But typically, if they've responded, it's a pretty good sign, you know what I mean? And I think what you did was good. I think just give them to reduce the number of times back and forth, give them the availability like almost up. I'm thinking like upfront. And make the windows really wide is why you can make them to be available.

John:  [00:42:09] Yeah, I definitely will. That makes sense,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:12] Because then it's like one step they'll be like, Yeah, let's talk at seven p.m. to call me here. Great. It's on my calendar and then make sure you don't miss that in your early. Got it, got it. Other than that, I like the email. Yeah, I just tighten it up a little bit with the extra words and stuff to make it even shorter. The follow-up, I didn't like the second email to your son where you just repeat it. I think better to say almost just a one-line with a question mark. It puts almost a little bit more pressure kindly where it's just like, you know what I'm saying? Like, just a Hey, hey, just following up here was hoping to get, you know, even just five minutes, you could go from 15 minutes to even just, you know, even just ten minutes. Do you know what I mean? So it's like, Oh, how can they say no to 10 minutes, you know, and be like. And if you if you're doing this for your emails you've already sent in the past, then you kind of have to maybe give a window there. But if you've given a window in the past, you can be like, I'm available at the same time. This week didn't just repeat that four to seven p.m. for seven p.m. every night Monday through Friday or three to 10 p.m., you know, except for Thursday or something like that, whatever it happens to be. We're like, if you have to step out of class if you have to step out of your pickup basketball game, whatever it is like, you're going to do it right like this

John:  [00:43:36] Is not too much lately.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:38] Yeah, so I would. You know, it should take priority over everything, even a little 10, 15-minute call can just completely change your career and get you that first-round interview and you need to get more. Because if this doesn't work out or it doesn't work out, then we want to make sure you're at least starting to stack the blocks to get yourself into, you know, 10 to 15 to 20 first-round interviews, not like three to five because you're going to get better to men. The more interviews you do, the better you're going to get. So. I hope so. You will. Is this natural like I had like 15 interviews my senior year when I was at Williams and by. It's not a coincidence that the only offer I got and this is a major recession time right after nine eleven. The only offer I got was my last interview. It's literally because just I was so much more polished on that like fifteenth interview than it wasn't that first one. Even though I made some final rounds, I made a single final round. It just you just become more natural at your stories. You become more genuine. You can focus more on the delivery and less on the content because you know it's going to be coming, you know, as soon as they start asking the question, you know exactly what you're going to talk about. And so your focus is less on, Oh shit, what am I going to say? And it's more on, let me just like, deliver it really well. Yeah. Does that make sense?

John:  [00:45:07] Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:09] And that's why the mock interviews, whether you're doing them with me or with a friend, I really, really, really recommend it or even just videotape yourself on your webcam. Talking for your stories, it sounds stupid, but man, you watch those videos, you'll be like, Oh man, that was horrible or that was really good, I want to keep that. And it reinforces it. So if you drill like. An hour a night tonight, the next night and the next night on consulting on your fit questions. Can record them and then watch them back. You're not only just doing it, you're actually not actually just doing it, you're actually watching it and reinforcing it right after. And then actually in then potentially fixing areas where there might be some weaknesses. And if you want to send some of those, it doesn't have to be on the show or whatever I can, just I can just give you some honest feedback on some of those answers, like weakness, you know, some of your weaknesses. Tell me your time. You struggle with a group, did it? I can take a, you know, their five-minute answers, you know, three-minute answers. I can take a quick look at those and kind of give you feedback if I think they're solid or not. A lot a lot of it's going to be your delivery man. A lot of it's not going to be like, is it the perfect example? It's going to be more like, how genuine are you? Or is it a bullshit answer?

John:  [00:46:30] Yeah, and I think that's I think that's what kind of like pushed me in my behavioral position last week, which is like I didn't really have the like the bank of like all these examples in my head, I kind of just like pulled them from the spot just because I didn't know these were. These were like far fetched behavioral questions that like I wasn't prepared for. You know, I'm prepared for like the weaknesses, strengths or like Tommy, Tommy worked in the group, but like there are other there are other questions that I just.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:57] Yeah, you've got to be ready for the wrinkles. And in the beauty is if you have enough stories with set up in this framework. So if you read the behavioral interview course and the mess in banking interview course, one of the first few things we say in the first few pages is the structure of star, which is situation task action result, like every single story should follow that framework, so it's easy to remember and got it. You have like eight stories that can kind of mold into different things, like a strength story or weakness. A story, a group struggle, conflict story, a superior conflict story where you're like somebody above you who's telling you something you don't agree with something where you have the lead story, and then each one of them can have little wrinkles in them where it's like it can be a lead and a conflict one. So like, if you haven't used it, if you haven't used it, you can kind of use a story from that background to, like, bring it into a lead one, or you can use it as a more of a conflict one. And so then you have like this bank and like you hear them saying something, you're like, OK, I haven't pulled from this one. I can turn that into the conflict one and then you're ready to go. And then honestly, it's just like delivery. And so that's why I'm really imploring you to do those video recordings of yourself. No one, no one ever has to see him. If you want to say that, Senator, you don't. But really, really, just like you don't understand how much better you will get if it's like the fifth time doing it versus if it's the second time like you've done it once. Now those behaviors, you may get asked the same exact payrolls at the Super Day how stupidly you feel if you don't ace those, like if you don't nail them. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, if you get the same things and you're like, Oh man, I should have drilled on that more, I messed that one up. It's kind of the things

John: [00:48:41] You look back. Would it be bad if I pulled on the same stories?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:44] No, no. Because I look to person,

John:  [00:48:47] Yeah, I looked at the people interviewing me. There's only one. They're doing the pairs again. There's only one person within one of the pairs that interviewed me lost last time. I think it's good that

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:59] They're asking you the same questions. You give them the same stories. And ideally, ideally, it's even more polished this time. All right. Yeah.

John:  [00:49:09] Got it. Yeah, that'll be yeah, if I can just drop on the same stories, that'd be so great.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:14] Yeah, yeah. And come up with a couple more because it sounds like at the end you are running out. And you did. Yeah, you're right. I had to pull in and you were kind of like coming up on the spot, which is super hard to do. You're pretty natural speaker and you're pretty relaxed, you're more chill. So you don't have like this nervous. You're not like somebody would completely freeze up. So that's good. You have that natural kind of. Relaxed air about you, which helps you in interviews, so don't like don't lean on that. It's a big mistake to not thinking that's enough to get you through to the offer. Because that's what I did early on, and I just didn't make the cut made the cut to the final round, didn't quite make the cut, you know what I mean? And then they got better and better and better, and then that's when I got the offer. So. Yeah, it's unbelievable, it's so many college kids, they're like going through, they're just focused on classes, they're focused on partying. Focus on all this stuff. And it's like, Dude, you should be the most important skill in like your career is interview skills. It's there should be a course where like, they just force you to mock interview all day, every day. If, if actually, if the cause if colleges and universities just sat people on made you pair up with each other and give each other feedback and record you on a video and showed it back to you with just the general stuff like, OK, here's this course is on accounting, interviews, on finance, interviews on this. And they did that. The number of people that would get employed at better jobs from their university would just explode. I believe would it would, man, I mean, it's his practice, it's a skill like anything else that's going to sell that person. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you got to be like, let's drill your kids like, so that job. Is this practice, man, it's just a skill like any other people like I can't I'm not good at public speaking. I'm like, we'll go public, speak like, just do it a hundred times and you won't, you won't care.

John:  [00:51:08] It's basically based on what I did force myself to do it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:12] Yeah, it's good. So yeah, it's not something most people do. Most people hate it. I I'm nervous when I public speak, but I got to the point where I was comfortable doing it and. Yeah, man, it's nerve-wracking. Interviews are nerve-wracking, it's like you're there, but like, I think some of the people that I talk to on it's interesting talking to like all these really successful people in finance, like some are directors at like these Fortune 20 companies and it's really interesting. The different personalities, a lot of them. Well, almost all of them to a tee are like harping on network. Like, everything that I have is because of just this one person I knew and to. And so like, they all harp on that. So that's obvious. But a lot, a lot of it's really interesting how they like. So were you stressed out of the interview? And usually by the time they get an offer, it's because they weren't stressed because they already had another offer in their back pocket. They weren't really looking for a job. It was because it's always like or they had this just innate confidence because they felt like they were interviewing the firm as much as the firm was interviewing them. So if you go into that room and you think to yourself like, Well, I don't even know if I'd want to take this, and you can kind of have that in the back of your mind, especially with this position, because it isn't banking that's going to give you such air of just comfort sitting there and be like, if I bomb this, it's OK because I'm on the path. I know what I have to do to give myself a lot more at bats for this year. So just like go in with that attitude, don't feel nervous. The case interview just really just try to think creatively review those, review those cases in the back of our course at the consulting course. So you can see kind of different type because sometimes it's just it's a silly little. It could be like a silly little trick on profitability or margin across divisions or something that like if that's common sense, but like if it doesn't if it doesn't come to you during the case, you're going to be like, you could be floundering for a half hour and not look as good as somebody, somebody who like, just knew it. You know what I mean? Yeah, OK. So. So, so, yeah, practice and then like, I don't think we're going to have time, but like, you're your network, like you only have like five people you've done informational interviews with kind of in banking right now.

John:  [00:53:31] I've done a lot of informational interviews, but the ones that I feel most comfortable reaching out to and telling them like, Hey, like, I have this, why

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:40] Wouldn't you tell that people that you've done informational interviews, you just haven't been in touch for a while? Or what would make you smoke to stop you? From talking to those people.

John:  [00:53:50] Actually, I don't really know. I guess it's like a one connection there. Yeah, I feel like I wasn't the best connection and I haven't reached out to them more than once. But if you say that, it doesn't matter if you've only reached out to them once and I'll go for it, I think, you know, think about it now, I should.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:09] You've only reached out to him once since your initial kind of informational interview or what do you mean? Yeah, that's not that bad. I mean, you don't be bothering them all the time. Be like, Hey, I just want to give you a heads up. I wanted to thank you. Just say thank you for the, you know, to be humble, it's want to thank you. You know, I'm in a final round interview this Friday. Of course, I, you know, I'm sure the process is probably locked up, but just wanted to send you a message just really to say thank you. And if there is anything that does open up, I'd love to be in consideration. Here's an updated resumé. Again, no, no worries. If nothing's available. Blah. I'll keep you updated. And so just get in the habit of making sure you don't let any of those balls drop because you may come out of that interview thinking, Oh, this guy didn't like me or I was awkward. But they may come out being like, Oh, that kid was a nice kid, you know, I hope he does well. And they just may come across as like jerks, but not really feel that way internally. So don't assume you know what I mean. So how many information interviews you've done, like you said you have five you feel kind of close to. Are they more junior people?

John:  [00:55:17] I would say seven. I mean, I'm like, I'm adding them up now. Yeah. One of them is more senior,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:26] The VP at Goldman.

John:  [00:55:30] I'm not even including that one. Okay. Um, actually, there's this one you see, I come at, I would say, like there middle market, they're called JMP Securities. He's an MD there, and I've had a good conversation with him. I send in my resume. And he said he was inattentive to his VP, but I haven't heard from them in a couple of weeks, so I should definitely follow up with him.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:49] Yeah, you should let him know you a final round. Yeah, it'd be like, I'm in a Super Day. Yeah, call it Super Day. I like to definitely call it you don't call it Super Day, so call it a Super Day. If they're like, where? Then you just tell them. But hopefully they're just like, Oh shit, you know, like, let's get them in. Don't we have one? And really, if you structure it, if you want to send that email, like what to say, I can take a look at it before, but something along just being humble and like, Thank you. Just wanted to thank you for your time. I want to give you an update. I have a couple interviews this week. I'm going to Super Day this Friday. I know it's probably too late in the process for your firm. I don't know if you guys were still started or started the I don't know if it's too late or too early for the process for your firm would still be really interested. And they may not even know you're interested in working at their firm. And they should have assumed that if you were doing an informational interview, but you explicitly saying it now is it's a nice opening to say it. But if it's only seven people men, the odds of that turning into like a first round interview is pretty, pretty slim. Yeah, especially, you know, actually that. Yeah. But you should still do it.

John: [00:57:05] Ok. Should still do it, and you said do that before the final round or the Super Day?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:10] I would yeah, I'd get that out tomorrow and don't spend like literally it should be like three lines. And if you want to shoot that on Skype to me, I'll take a quick look at it and be like, Yes, send and attach a new resume. Send me your new resume. I'll take a quick look at that. Make sure it's looking good with the new bullets and then and then write me like literally a three-line thing, like a template that you're going to go out to about, like your Super Day and stuff like that and how you're interested. And then I think you should go with that as long as it's like a thankful email, it's not like, Oh, you should hire me now because I'm in a Super Day, you know, you don't want to be like, it's almost like, you're excited. You just want to come across as like, excited. You know, their conversation was really helpful kind of thing. What else can we talk about? So. So yeah, man, I think you need to get, you know, you're saying you did a lot of information. You're telling me seven, though that's not a lot.

John:  [00:58:05] I need all. I mean, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I felt like I did a lot, but like seven that I really think could turn into something. Yeah, that's not good.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:16] But what do you think like 20 overall, 15 overall, like even the ones? Why, why do you see the ones that didn't go well? Like, what do you mean? Like, you felt stupid in it? Like, why are you saying the ones that you like you met in person with these people or you just got on the phone with them?

John:  [00:58:30] He's got to follow them, and I feel like I really had a good connection with them.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:34] But what about the other ones feel like they were just kind of hanging up on you? They want to get off the phone kind of thing.

John: [00:58:41] Uh, yeah, more or less. Or they just like blatantly said, yeah, we're not like hiring or we're not recruiting anymore. There's never like.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:50] Still, that's temporary. Right? Yeah. And they're just like, Oh, this kid just wants a job. If you stay in touch with them and you hang around, it's like, hang around the hoop. It's like you get bought, you're getting boxed out, right? To the basketball analogy, like you still got to like, try and get your way around right. Like you're not just going to like, sit there and be like, Oh, I watched out like, I'm done here. Because you never know the guy could like something could happen where they're like, all of a sudden they're like, Oh, I move firms or. And we are looking for an analyst. You never know.

John:  [00:59:23] That makes sense, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:25] So, so, yeah, those places, you put anybody in those contexts anyway when you actually spend the time to get on the phone with. Please don't let that just die completely, and guess what? The good news is, even if you did it this summer, they're not dead. That's a couple of months is actually like perfect, you know, so you're not like, it's annoying, like every week or every month being

John: [00:59:45] Like, Hey, this is what

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:46] I'm doing. Like they care. So it's fine. It's actually good. Like, if you did it in like June and it's now October, it's kind of a good time.

John:  [00:59:57] Ok. Sorry, sorry. That's perfectly here.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:01] And you have a reason to be telling them like it's a it's a thank you. You know, I'm in a super I'm really excited and a Super Day this Friday and I have a couple of other interviews scheduled. I just want to thank you for your time. You know, if anything, I know you mentioned that there weren't any spots, anything you did ever open up. I'd I would love to have the opportunity but totally understand if that's not the case. Wishing you the best, you know, I'll stay. I'll keep you updated, that kind of thing. It's kind of forward, it's kind of forward, it's kind of like you're assuming they want to do this, but like typically if it was polite, it's polite. It's like, Oh, this kid is energy. He's positive. He does have a final round somewhere, so somebody wants him, you know, or

John:  [01:00:43] Like, he's close. Yeah, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:45] Um, so don't feel like, I mean, what's the worst case? They're not going to like, blackball you for sending that email a thankful email, and you're going to get nothing from sending nothing.

John: [01:00:58] So might as well shoot your

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [01:01:00] Shot, right? Shoot it, man, she lots of shots, so like I would love for you over the next, let's say this case maybe doesn't go well. Let's say you nail your fit, but the case just bombs and you just miss the offer. And let's say you get to find rounds at feet, but your technical aren't sharp enough, and that happens later this month or early November. And we get to Thanksgiving, and all of a sudden you're like, Man, I can't, I can't do this at that point. I really want you to be from 15. I want you to be up to like 30. So at least you know what I mean. Of people that like in the industry and especially if you widen your, you should be absolutely widening your you don't want to miss. You don't want to be like putting all your eggs in the banking basket and then totally missed transaction advisory services big for other things that could actually lead to banking programs that are really awesome to get you a wide exposure to all the different parts of the business and Corp Dev Corp Fin. Those are those are legit. Those are competitive to get into. So don't think like, Oh, I didn't get banking like this. This is a cakewalk. No, you need to be. You need to be polished in those two. Ok. Does that make sense, I know I'm being I feel like I'm being hard on you, in tough on you, but like.

John:  [01:02:15] No, that's totally fine. I appreciate the honesty. Like, that's really how I want it. That's awesome.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:21] It's going to be harder when you're in banking. I can tell you that if you end up with a job at 50 partners, I can guarantee you you'll be working 80 plus hours a week. And so you do the math. Oh yeah, imagine you're doing 80 hours right now just on recruiting. What if you put in 80 hours? Yeah, you could do a lot of damage.

John:  [01:02:40] Uh, yeah, I'd be I'd already be up at Fifteen Plus.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:44] Yeah, so like I know there's recruiting and other school work and you don't want to let your GP. Definitely keep your GPA up.

John:  [01:02:52] Yeah, it's the midterm this week that I'm about to go study for after this.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:57] Oh, fun. When's that Thursday?

John: [01:03:01] It is Thursday. So like right before? Yeah, I'm going from the midterm straight to L.A. for the dinner, and then I'm staying in L.A. the night because the interview starts like at 9:00. Nice. Yeah, I actually have a question about. So this probably should be really obvious. I just. I haven't done it yet. So I've been at B. Riley for two months now, and I feel like I've developed a good relationship with the office as a whole just because it's so small. Yeah, they don't offer a full time or they don't offer return offers to the interns at the office. But I do want to ask one of the MDS if you can refer me to the L.A. office. They have one in New York, they also have one in Virginia.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:03:46] But don't all the L.A. interns get the offers there.

John:  [01:03:51] I don't think so. Because one guy, yeah, one guy that I talk to over the summer, I reached out to him over the summer before I even talked to anybody at the Christmas office. He actually was recruited off cycle at the L.A. office, so I assume that. They recruit all psychologists in general, as in like on

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:04:14] This small boutique small private equity firm, small anything tends to be less structured and they hire whenever it comes up. It's not like these huge cohorts of classes that come through. So yeah, that's the case for any small firm. They just hire whenever, whenever they need it. But. Yeah, and I'm excited for you, I think you're going to probably land this offer and then I think it's going to be kind of tough because you're going to be like shit like I could have probably gotten a banking offer. But, you know, even if you get the banking offer, to be honest, you're probably going to get a banking offer at a really small boutique. And being in a can get a strong consulting shop is going to give you some good chops, especially if you keep in the banking kind of network and you keep talking to people. To the point where I think you'll be able to make that jump, you'll have to reset. I have to reset a year, but still.

John:  [01:05:07] Yeah. Maybe like go get an MBA or

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:05:10] No, no, no, just reset, meaning you'll go from like one year in consulting and you go reset, become an analyst.

John:  [01:05:18] Ok, and I am I be OK

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:05:21] As a first year, yeah.

John:  [01:05:24] Yeah. I'm not I also have another question I'm not totally dead set on this path, but I've thought about private equity as well. Are there a lot of like consultants that jump to PE? I know they have. Okay. That's what I figured, because it's harder.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:05:39] But like private equity dude is such a big, it's like the buy-side in general. It's such a big umbrella term. When people say private equity, a lot of them are thinking like mega funds and upper middle-market funds. So like, oh, I've got to be at Goldman Sachs TMT at the top group to go get into KKR Carlyle, whatever. But there's a huge number of small funds where we're hiring right now through talent oasis for like a couple of funds here. Two hundred million dollar fund here in Palo Alto, your small little fund doesn't pay well and it's like they're looking for somebody just one year experience. Or they even said to us, like, we understand the pay is not great. So like we're willing to hire people from transaction advisory services. They go so like and I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, if I was in tears, I didn't have to go to banking and I could go do this private equity job even if it was a pay cut. Who cares? You go work there for a year or two and then you have the experience on your resume and then you can just you just keep building from there and then boom, you get an associate position somewhere else, another PE firm. Do you know what I mean? Because the size of the deal is? Yeah, yeah. Like just get in, get in any way you can get in, especially pre MBA. Once you go MBA and you don't have private equity, you're screwed. That's it. Like, it's super hard to get by. So like the other thing is family office, it's like from banking, you can go to buy-side to family, these family offices, they don't typically like advertise a lot of their opening spots. It's just like, you know, who do you know? And it's like word of mouth. So that's why most jobs that are given or are really never marketed, they're not on job boards, they're not on campus, they're through friends. It's like there's a hard guys like, Hey, do you know somebody an analyst that's strong from? Oh yeah, this guy did it, and it's like, they just talk to that guy. Maybe a couple of others and they end up hiring that, that one guy or gal. And it's not a process. Do you know what I mean? And some of those jobs are awesome. Some of those jobs are awesome because you're given a lot of flexibility. It's like you and two or three other people hopefully get along with them really well. And it's just like, you guys have this really wide mandate to do all types of investments so you can learn a lot. Yeah, but I wouldn't go. I definitely wouldn't jump there right out of school. I think going to a bank or consulting firm to get some of those modeling skill sets, the PowerPoint presentation skill sets. I think that's helpful long term to you. Yeah. I mean, the training, so yeah, but yeah, private equity, yeah, there's tiny little boutique bucket, tiny funds I wouldn't recommend. I wouldn't recommend doing that. Number one, I don't know what no one, very few of them, if any of them would ever look at an undergrad. Um, even tiny little fun here up in the Bay Area. That's like really small. They're looking for someone with like at least a year or two years, preferably. Mm hmm. That's a good example.

John:  [01:08:24] Oh, also another thing I recently reached out on our school's job board, I was just like just taking the scroll. Yeah, and I found this position at Starwood Capital. Mm hmm. They're strong, a real strong private equity. Yeah. And it was like an asset management role that opened up. I'm not to like the role. It's very simple. Like it up

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:50] Somebody at undergrad?

John:  [01:08:52] Yeah. Yeah, it was for undergrad, OK? It was like analyst position 20 20. I actually reached out to the associate there who's in the group that's recruiting. And it's just like they said, the group is three people, one VP. I can share my screen with you when one be one.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:09:12] I'm not sure what asset management means, like you're working in the portfolio or something like that or like asset management, you're like,

John:  [01:09:17] Yeah, here we go. Not here. Yeah. So Asset Management 20 analysts set my resume and I set my resume personally after I talked to the associate. But like the responsibilities in the qualifications like, I mean, portfolio evaluations, return analysis, one of them, like he asked me if. You basically like over the phone call, he asked me if I knew what a DCF was. I was like, Yeah, I know what a DCF is like. He said part of their recruitment process is a modeling test. But the weather analysts say don't expect much of them, if you're coming in as associate, they want you to have more. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know what you think about this. I applied just to cast a wide net. But yeah,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:10:03] No, it's a great company, man. It's one of the top like real estate firms out there. It's really well respected. So, yeah, I would absolutely go for it. It might make you a little bit niche, but I mean, real estate is a great place to be. There's a lot of I just had a call again today with another guy who works at a real estate private equity fund, actually in Newport, Newport Beach. Oh, nice. And he is loving life. He's like, very happy. So, you know, he he was interesting. He was at Goldman. He did banking for two years, and then he went to like Chicago institutional sales brokerage sales, which is like crazy to go from like Ivy Goldman to that. Like, it's totally you wouldn't think it and like it was a good firm. So good. But it's like, why would you do that? I was like, Why did you do that? And like, I was like, trying to figure it out, and he's like, Oh, I followed a girl to Chicago and I'm like, oh, I'm like, explains it.

John:  [01:11:00] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:11:02] But yeah, that was on the podcast that's coming out. That episode is coming out and a couple of weeks, you can take a listen. Well, not that you're not going to have time to listen to the podcasts. I wouldn't.

John: [01:11:12] I listen to a lot of podcasts on my drives. I mean, I've been driving a lot lately and just coming to school and work. So I've been able to catch a lot or a few actually recently. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:11:23] So like, look man, like whether you absolutely should apply that it has a lot of like transferable skills, the modeling, you don't have to know a little bit of argus. I know nothing about Argus, but it's like a

John:  [01:11:33] Real estate car.

Patrick (CEO of WSO) [01:11:36] Yeah, you can never use Argus, but I'm sure I could pick it up. I understand financial modeling, blah. But yeah, I mean, I think it's good, I think you could there's real estate's a massive asset class you could always transfer to other like real estate bias at firms, real estate investment banks focusing most. So there's options there, if you go that review of that route. And it's a great name on the resume.

John:  [01:12:02] Ok, so I just didn't know I looked up a little bit about the firm, I just didn't know how extensively known or

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:12:08] How great I know no unrealistic in real estate. I didn't know they had an analyst program, to be honest. But I'm sure it's, you know, they'll give you some good training. It's a big enough company. So sweet. So, yeah, I think, for now, I mean, keep me up to date like the weekly updates have been great, so just keep those coming so I can. It's really helpful, actually, and I just have a couple of minutes to look and see that because I feel like I'm like watching along as you're making progress or like or whatnot. So.

John:  [01:12:39] It's been a fun process, definitely, and I really appreciate everything that you've done for me in the other candidates.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:12:46] Yeah, yeah, one guy already got an internship. It was fast.

John:  [01:12:49] That's awesome. Like, I didn't even do anything. I'm like, That wasn't me, man. He's like, Yeah,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:12:56] He's is really good here. So, yeah, it's I'm hoping. I'm hoping all of you guys fall following in his footsteps, but

John:  [01:13:04] Hopefully very soon. Yeah, that's awesome. What candidate was he then?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:13:10] Then University of Texas, yeah, yeah, gosh.

John:  [01:13:13] Is he staying down there for like oil and gas?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:13:16] Honestly, I'm not even sure. I think he's I think it's up in New York, actually, which is what he wanted.

John:  [01:13:21] Yeah. Oh, that's awesome.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:13:24] Yeah, it's really that's a really strong alumni network and they it's pretty strong school too, so they do well. Everyone's a little bit more of a nontarget.

John:  [01:13:36] No, that's well. Yeah, it's cool. I mean,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:13:41] It is what it is. He also like they have like an investment banking club there, and they have like stuff where it's like straight on feeders into the bold brackets and stuff like that. So it's very it was very much like a paved path for him. I almost felt like I'm like, Oh dude, I got to pick people to have longer shot. That's what I said to him. Like, I picked the wrong verse. It's like, Oh, it's cool, because the other people like yourself. I think I think it's the perfect. This is the perfect thing for you. I think Andrew up in Canada, he's, you know, he's benefited. And in Grayson, in New York, at Fordham, she has. She's super young. She's like, just started college. So there's a lot more impact that I can make there.

John:  [01:14:20] So now, what does the process look like for now in terms like the weekly updates? And I think

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:14:24] That's it also it's like, I think that's it. I think he's like, Yeah, we're good because like he's it's basically like, if you have that internship, it basically is almost guaranteed summer. So it's kind of like, I'm going to talk to him like, Hey, what's up mode? Are you having fun at college knowing you have that internship? So it's kind of like it's one of those

John:  [01:14:42] Things that you got to this

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:14:43] Week. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, I think he's out, but I already have like a bunch of other people that want to come in. I'm kind of trying to figure out, like, do I want to take on any? You want to keep it at three or take on somebody else. There's one guy that reached out recently and I'm like, This could be interesting. A little more senior like actually out of school. Okay, so we'll see. But yeah, and I think you're you'll be good. Whether you get the job, go into this, like literally thinking. Like focus, but no stress at all, because you have a lot of other app, you're going to have a lot of at-bats because we're going to make sure between the two. Like, I'm going to make sure that you're going to keep you honest in terms of the networking and stuff like that to make sure you're like, it's got to get real very soon. Like this Friday happens. You don't get to offer like it's got to be like your full-time gig, like more than school more than anything.

John:  [01:15:44] Yeah, I wholeheartedly they're with you. It's going to be a grind for sure. I mean, it already has, but yeah, it's going to be on another level.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:15:53] Yeah. We have to get that offer. Then it's like party, you know, it's relaxation and party time.

John:  [01:15:57] Yeah, that's if that's it. We'll see. Hopefully, we'll see.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:16:02] Cool, man. So listen, we'll talk again next month. Maybe earlier. If you have like an emergency interview, we can try to schedule something earlier, like a soup day at a bank or something like that. Yeah, that happens because I think this is kind of crunch time right now. We're getting into November, which is crazy. So anyways, yeah, definitely stay in touch. Let me know how things go and definitely send me that kind of quick little templates and stuff, and I'll try to get back to you soon so you can get that stuff out. I'll let you go for your midterm now

John: [01:16:34] Noted, and I'll send it to you tomorrow then.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:16:37] Cool, man. All right. Have a good night. Yeah, yeah, you got me.

John:  [01:16:41] Yeah, you too. Thanks for taking the call.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:16:43] So late, going north. Talk soon. Bye. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time