Monkey to Millions | John (Session 4) - Pep Talk and Trash Talk - Dec 16, 2019
About
In this episode, we learn that John got rejected from his latest investment banking interview at a fintech firm in San Francisco. We talk about what might have gone wrong and the sacrifices he's making by continuing his internship into the winter. I give him some homework that I think will help him improve his energy and performance in the interviews as well as a little Celtics / Lakers trash-talk.
Listen to the Monkey to Millions Podcast:
Or Listen to the Podcast Here:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Stitcher
Resources:
WSO Podcast (Episode 4) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:00:04] Well. Hello and welcome, I'm Patrick Curtis, chief monkey of Wall Street Oasis, and this is monkey to millions. A show where you get a front row seat as I mentor young students and professionals to try and help them break into their dream jobs in the first cohort. You'll meet four students, all preparing for intense job interviews while trying to also balance personal life and schoolwork. The goal of this show is to shine a light on the struggles of trying to break into competitive positions with a non-traditional background and to give you a roadmap for your own success. My hope is that as you get to know these four impressive students, you're inspired to dream big. Remember, these are real people, and this is their true story. Let's get to it. In this episode, we learn that John got rejected from his latest investment banking interview at a fintech firm in San Francisco. We talk about what might have gone wrong and the sacrifices he's making by continuing his internship into the winter. I give him some homework that I think will help him improve his energy and performance in the interviews, as well as a little Celtics-Lakers trash talk at the end. But first, listen to John himself over the previous few weeks leading up to this session.
John: [00:01:38] All right. Sorry for the delay in my diary blogs. It's been a couple of weeks. School has been really tough, but everything has been kind of steady in terms of recruiting actually just had my second round call with Fintech Boutique in San Francisco today. It was standard valuation, standard accounting questions. I think that went pretty well. Thought it was one stumble on one accounting question, but the VP let me walk through it with him, so that was pretty kind. I kind of felt a disconnect when the interviewer. So I hope that isn't the reason why they ding me. If they do ding me the health care middle-market bank that I'm going to be interviewing with for a second round is next week. On top of that, I'm still applying. I actually just received two emails from two boutique tech banks, one in S.F. and then one down. Here in L.A., the L.A. is more TMT. They have more media-focused, so I take that back in terms of that. They're just tech. So I'm pretty excited about those definitely wouldn't mind staying close to home in terms of school, school is kind of kicking my butt. I thought it'd be easier, but juggling school with recruiting and my current internship has been pretty tough. I'm really enjoying my internship right now. I'm learning a lot at the middle market bank I'm at right now. And in terms of like recruiting, studying for my technical has kind of been iffy, washy. I've been focusing a lot on school the past couple of weeks just because I had to get my studying up finals or next week. So I don't know how much technical studying I'm going to be doing. So I think that's where kind of my downfall might be. But in terms of the basic interview questions, I think I have those down-packed, so we'll see. As always, thanks for watching and continuing to watch. I'll keep you guys posted. What's going on? It's been another week we have finals this week, so it's been constantly grinding and late nights haven't really focused too much on setting for technical or networking or recruiting. But I do have two initial phone screens tomorrow morning. One with a TMT bank here in L.A., there's a boutique, another boutique tech bank in San Francisco, so I'm pretty excited about that. And moving forward with the process, so I'll keep you guys updated.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:04:16] And then we just heard your weekly update. But give me the spiel because I'm behind.
John: [00:04:20] Yeah, yeah. So had the second interview with, I want to say names I keep forgetting. Like, if you
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:04:28] Want whatever, it's fine. It's a three-month delay.
John: [00:04:30] So okay, well, I'll just keep it short because I think I've been calling it a fintech boutique in San Francisco. How the second round got dinged. So it is what it is. I'm still applying to the market.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:04:47] Any feedback from that second round?
John: [00:04:49] No, no. I think just reflecting on it, I think what it came down to was just not connecting well with the interviewer like I mentioned to you on our last call, as well as or messages as well as maybe like I kind of like goofed on one accounting question. I mean, we got through all the technicals, but maybe that one just solidified it. So maybe it's a mix in both, maybe just one or the other? Not totally sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:05:16] So what was the accounting that was? This is in the second round. This was in the second round. It was an accounting, a technical question. Yeah, do you remember what it was,
John: [00:05:26] I think had to do something with a super basic. It was like have to do with deferred revenue and how that flowed or how like changes and like. One month to another affected the three statements, I mean, I had most of it down, except for one part, and he kind of had to walk me through that specific part. But other than that, like I knocked it down, so maybe it was that. Maybe it wasn't. I don't know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:05:55] And what about the other like the fit questions? Do you feel like you have your stories down?
John: [00:06:00] He didn't ask me much stories question is more just like reflecting on my resume. And I mean, the only story question was Tell me about yourself and tell me, walk me through your resume. And I feel like I had that one pretty down. Other than that, it was, he's kind of asking about like my coursework at school. I think that was like having a financial background or financial like coursework. Background? Definitely. That's maybe not something he's looking for because he asked about that specifically, and I haven't taken any finance classes. I told them I've been self-studying all that on the side and I've been taking primarily accounting classes. And then he asked about one of my fintech courses that I took because it related to the firm and I told them about, like a research project that I did. But in terms of like my background in resume, that was pretty much it. And then the rest was standard technical questions.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:06:50] And was that and did you feel like you nailed all the other standard tech technical?
John: [00:06:54] So I feel so, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:06:55] Yeah, it's so bright. I'm going to go blind if I keep this thing on. So, OK, well, that's a bummer, dude.
John: [00:07:06] It's OK. Yeah, I'm pretty right. But you know,
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:07:09] All I can say is that firm is pretty brutal to work for.
John: [00:07:12] So yeah, you've mentioned it. You've mentioned it since
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:07:16] From the very start. Yeah. So so OK. So tell me, wasn't there a consulting that one was? Also, did you get dinged and final round there?
John: [00:07:24] Yeah, I'm doing the final round, and that was a month ago. I'm not sure if I ever included that. Maybe I was just too sad about it. Now I think I included it,
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:07:35] But heads up now. Keep your head up. So, OK, so tell me what's going on right now. So you've still been kind of throughout all this, been networking, and continually trying to build up?
John: [00:07:45] Yeah, yeah, definitely. So there is a middle-market bank in L.A. that's going to start recruiting in the end of January. Early February, I talked to an analyst there who actually interned at the bank I'm at right now. It's Stoute. I'm not sure if you've heard of them. Yeah, in the L.A. office, we had a good connection, just an intro call. And he said he'll let the lead recruiter know that I reached out to him and I already submitted my application so I didn't hear back from them in terms of like. About to come forth right now this week, I actually have a second-round call with TMT Bank or boutique bank in Santa Monica. They're called Telus Advisors. Yeah, I remember I had yeah, I had a first-round call last week with the lead recruiter who's a senior analyst there. And that went pretty well. It was mostly fit with a couple of technical questions that I thought were pretty basic, kind of just trying to feel if you understand what Southside is. And then tomorrow I have a call with the principal who I heard is pretty tough when it comes to interviews. I had a friend. I had a friend. Or a friend of a friend who went to my high school, who just left the bank, and he said that this guy is known for testing the recruits to their limits in the calls.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:09:12] So I on the technical side.
John: [00:09:15] Yeah, yeah, he'll like push you until you feel right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:09:18] He'll keep getting more and more technical and see how far you go. So that's I think, the key on those. When you run into an interviewer that's going to just push you until you fail is not to feel defeated when you fail. And really come across as more curious. Mm hmm. Ok, so it's not like he may have the sense of like how I got you. And you have almost like the aura of like, Oh, yeah, wow, OK. That's right. Like, that's really helpful. Thank you. You know, or it's almost like you, you enjoy the process and you weren't intimidated by it. So it's good that you got that heads up because you know that you're going to fail. You know that you're going to get something wrong because he's going to keep going into more and more detail. The key is like, how far can you go? I do that. You can get like, ideally you knock all the basic stuff out because you grilled and you understand, like basic accounting, working capital, DCF, all the valuation techniques, all that stuff like cold, so that when he gets into the more like tricky stuff, then you stumble a little bit. He's kind of like he can pat himself on the back and feel good, but you're at the same time. You don't get rattled by it.
John: [00:10:26] Mm hmm. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:10:27] I do like because you may think you bombed it completely, but you may. The way you hold yourself could be enough to kind of get you through to the final round. That makes sense,
John: [00:10:41] Yeah, that makes sense, and I heard the final round is they just bring me into an office. Meet the team, mostly behavioral, but they also have a case study where it's modelling and PowerPoint in a couple of hours. So I got my Wall Street prep going to hit that ASAP. I haven't really done much studying for technical or modelling this past week just because of finals. That was pretty brutal. Our finals on finals are done. Finals are done.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:11:11] You get like 12 hours a week a day now on this stuff.
John: [00:11:14] Yeah. So I work this week, Monday through Wednesday with the exception of Thursday. Thursday is my birthday and then Friday is like a half-day for me that. But yeah, I'll be studying in the evenings this week and then just basically like full time the next couple of weeks.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:11:31] Yeah, I think it's important that like is that this energy, this interview that's potentially coming up with this tough guy, it may be you may flame out and get dinged, but the one in January may give you enough time if you can get that interview at the beach in Santa Monica. It might be enough like you might have enough practice, enough reps where your interview skills are like ready. I mean, it's like it's important you try to get up to speed like we started this year and your senior year, like that's it's hard, like I'm already the other, the other people in this like so grace is a freshman. She already has an internship like lined up like Andrew has an internship in Toronto, so like. But they have a huge advantage because they started so early.
John: [00:12:20] Do you know what I mean at the time?
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:12:23] The other time the competition is easier, once you're when you're a freshman or sophomore, you know, it's still tough, but it's almost like as a senior there's few seats left from like there are only a few seats because all of them are filled up with kids that were already had internships. Thanks. So it's really tough. That being said, I think it might make sense for us to do. Do we do a mock? I think we did a mock like last month, right?
John: [00:12:49] Yeah, we could do a mock right now, but
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:12:53] You don't have to do right now. We don't have to do that. We don't do it right now. But maybe just offline, we could do something where once you're feeling better. Maybe I could just we could just do something over the phone and I could. I could hear you like, maybe over. I'm going to be traveling next week, but maybe I could just hop on the phone. You can shoot me a text and then just doing like a half-hour because I think it's important that like you don't use these, there are few opportunities left for you. Like, not that I want to put like crazy pressure, but like, I want you to be really focused.
John: [00:13:26] I understand the pressure. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:13:28] Like, I want to make sure that like you have the confidence going in because you're like, I know anything they could throw at me. Like, I know almost every single technical and then I really want to. In terms of like the stories, when they don't ask you the stories, you should still be kind of I want to talk, I want to focus on fit. You should still be weaving in your stories. So instead, instead of telling them like you are hard-working and whatever like you should be showing them with pre stories. Okay. So I had Grace do this, which you can maybe share a Google doc with me where you have a story about your strengths and weaknesses? A story about your sorry, one about your strengths. One about conflict within a group. One about how you stepped up and became a leader in a certain project. One about how you had conflict with somebody in the group or like with the leader itself. So like, you're basically trying to pull together a group of between five and seven stories, ideally, seven that talks about coursework at school or project work at school internships. That allow you to, no matter what question is on the behavioral side. Say something, but then quickly follow it up with a story in a certain format, so it makes it makes you much more memorable and it makes you much more. It makes it much more believable than saying, you know, I'm a really hard worker. Instead of saying, I'm a really hard worker, you say, I'm a really hard worker. I feel like I'm able to take on a lot on my plate. This past semester, I was on the blah team and I was doing five hours of practice a day. I also took a full course load with linear algebra, plus this list and you know, you know what I mean?
John: [00:15:06] Like, Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:15:08] I'm trying to demonstrate it. Exactly. It makes it more tangible. It's the same thing with the resumes quantifying the resume. It's like instead of saying led team to blah, it's the lead team to X percentage gain over a competition of this number of people. It just makes it more tangible. They can grab it. They it actually allows them to remember you more so if there's a whole row of conversations and you have a story that sticks in their head. And they like you, your general demeanor, then you're going to have a much better shot.
John: [00:15:37] Got it. Got it. Ok, cool.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:15:39] I feel like I've said that, but I don't. I don't know if I really communicated it well before, so I want to make sure that you have that
John: [00:15:45] In your back. Yeah. Yeah, I understand. I'll be sure to make the move along with you, I think I didn't do that last time. From our last call? Yes. I'll make sure to add you to Google Doc.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:15:54] Yeah, sure that. And then I can help kind of do it in this structure. The star format. So S.T.A.R. situation, task action result, and just literally four bullets. Because like, you shouldn't be writing out your answers to these stories because it's going to make you come across really like robotic robot. But if you practice them enough, you'll kind of know what's already going to come out of your mouth and you can focus more on delivery and like eye contact and being confident stuff like that,
John: [00:16:19] That makes no sense. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, OK.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:16:22] So also, yeah, what someone else is going on?
John: [00:16:25] Yeah, sorry. I keep jumping the gun here.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:16:28] No, it's fine. Great. Wednesday, I
John: [00:16:30] Have a call with the MD of Wedbush Health Care in San Francisco. Nice. It was kind of weird how that process went. I mean, I applied. They sent me a teaser with a bunch of errors that I had to like, review and fix. Did that? Yeah, that's awesome. The yeah was like a mini case study or many like. I don't know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:16:52] Did they give you instructions in terms of what to fix or you were just given?
John: [00:16:57] They just gave me the tease, and they said there are a lot of grammar errors and no errors, and they said just catch as many as you can. And I did and I really liked it. I like case studies. So like whenever an interviewer gives me a case study, I'm like, OK, sweet, let's do it because I think like, you can really showcase your abilities in that aspect. So then I had a call with the office administrator, and I think it was just I think I mentioned that to you. And that was a kind of behavioral fit. And then now they got back to me saying that they want me to talk to the MD of the group. And I just want to say, I don't know how it's going to be. It's going to be technical, it's going to be behavioral. She wants to feel my interest in health care or investment banking. I have no clue what to expect.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:17:46] Be careful about not sounding genuine like you always want to do health care. Be careful. Don't sell that. Oversell that. So like they can say yes, right? So like you, it's more important about saying like just being your own smart people and you think health care is really interesting for a variety of reasons like it's obviously really it's really critical. And. You know, I don't even if it's horrible it's horrible answer, but think about the health care, but don't oversell. Like, I don't know if you have any health care stuff on your CV, I don't think you do, right?
John: [00:18:19] Like the only health care stuff I did was like in high school. I volunteered at a hospital for three years and I was like, Yeah, health care is there for me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:18:27] So my point is like, don't try to oversell it, though, because of that and say it's more about, I think, being in touch, you can say, being so young, I think it's more important than I'm just in a group that does interesting work and around smart people. I think if you say that, I think it's much more believable than trying to be like health care. I've always dreamt of working in the health care group. They'll be like, Are you interviewing elsewhere for nonhealth care groups? You'll be like, Yeah,
John: [00:18:53] Yeah, right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:18:55] So yeah, just try to reduce the BS and come across is just really a genuine, likeable kid and hardworking kid. Mm hmm. And I think you'll do well. Tell me how you're like ending these interviews. Like how many of them? It sounds like it's a lot of it's been on the phone.
John: [00:19:14] Yeah. All of them have been on the phone for investment banking, at least.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:19:18] Are they usually polite with you or they're like, Well, great to talk with you and we'll talk later.
John: [00:19:24] Yeah, it's great to talk to you. Hope to hear from you soon. And I usually said the same thing and I say, like, what are the I asked them like, Oh, what are the next steps in the process? And if I don't have their email already, I ask for it. Yeah, just to set up my follow up. Thank you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:19:38] Yeah. Ok, great. Yeah, I don't think anything. I'm just thinking if eventually it's something where, like in person, you can do a lot better, where you're when you're shaking their hand, you really appreciate it. You come across more genuine. Even before it ends, you can almost. Give pitch your final pitch and ask them if they have any concerns that you can address, because sometimes that'll get them to open up about things they're like. I don't know, that's not good, you know what I mean? You know, say, you know, you know, do they have any questions for you? You ask them some questions. You have some good dialogue and be like, Well, you know, this really, this position really interests me, and I think I'd be a great member of the team. I just the only other question to have is like, are there concerns about my candidacy for this room? Because if there are, I'd love to address it. Gotcha. And so it's a little bit aggressive, but I found it it's worked pretty well for me in the past. I actually forgot about that. That's popped into my head like I used to do that.
John: [00:20:37] Yeah, OK.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:20:38] And it worked. It worked pretty well for me. I got in a lot of final rounds and offers using that. Ok. So I think as long as it's done in a way that's like super genuine and like, you're not trying to be like super aggressive about it, and it's just really like because sometimes they'll open up and they'll be like, Yeah, we're a little bit worried about your technical skills. But if they say no, yeah, like you seem like a really strong candidate, it's just a really, really competitive pool. You can just say great, well, if you have any, any questions whatsoever. Of course, I'd love to answer them. So thanks again for the opportunity. You know, that's kind of a nice way to wrap up. Mm hmm. Ok. And they'll be like some of them, some people will be like, wow, like he really kind of went, but it's basically saying you really want the job and sometimes that's something they don't really know. And so it's a nice way to wrap up just to give them a taste of your intent. It's like you're basically saying, like, I want this job. Give me this job at the end in a more polished way. You're not screaming like, give me the damn job, but you're saying, give me the damn job, like, what's your concern? Like, you know, I'm a good candidate that you should give me an offer. I should be one of the officers, you know? Okay. Instead of being like, well, thank you so much for your time, right? I hope to hear from you by.
John: [00:21:57] Mm hmm. Yeah, that's kind of just like, yeah, just kind of letting it go at that point.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:22:04] And that's OK, because sometimes they're like, Oh, he was really good and blah. But my sense is like people probably like you because you come across as a pretty genuine nice guy. So I think a little bit of a touch of aggression at the end, done in the right way and the right tone could help. You could help you actually help them consider you because if you're coming across as too laid back or to not excited enough about the job. That can also turn them off.
John: [00:22:30] I'm kind of worried that that's the case at times, just because I feel like I'm really chill person outside of the work environment. But I guess like maybe I should step it up a bit in terms of like my tone of voice energy. Yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:22:43] Yeah, energy. But like, it's hard because if you're naturally laid back, like me, like you, you don't want to be like jumping out of your seat, like over getting over-animated because they can see fake.
John: [00:22:54] Yeah, that's what I don't want.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:22:56] I think maybe just a little bit. Maybe take an espresso shot before you go in,
John: [00:23:01] But like, maybe a little.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:23:03] Try it a little something like to give you a little bit of a pickup, a little bit more energy, a little speak, a little bit with more authority. I think we'll give them a little more confidence that you want the job, that you're excited about the job and then you're not just going to come in and go through the motions.
John: [00:23:21] Got it. Got it. Ok, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:23:24] So and it's not about saying you've been dreaming of doing banking your whole life and read The Wall Street Journal every morning. And it's not about that. It's about showing that you're eager just to have a job around really smart people and start your career off and at a great firm like XYZ. Mm hmm. Got it, got it. More about that. The excitement around that.
John: [00:23:46] So analysts walking by just like, um, but yeah, no, no, no, I appreciate you. Where are you right now?
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:23:59] You're at the office.
John: [00:24:00] Yeah, I'm on my internship right now. Nice. Yeah, I'm working. Yeah, like I said, I'm working this week. It's my last week of my internship. I'm going to ask them if I can return for the winter if they need more hands.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:24:13] So I've been going there. Are you getting any deal experience?
John: [00:24:16] Yeah, no. The Times, they're super, super helpful here and I'm learning a lot and there's a bunch going on right now. So it's been a steep learning curve. But are you working long hours? During school, maybe like 30 hours a week, if
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:24:34] You have it on your resume, yeah, yeah. You have like 30 hours per week plus a full course load somewhere.
John: [00:24:41] I don't have that like
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:24:43] Specifically like you have your intern and you have your internship, but I think it's important to call out like I guess they could. They should know because it's a fall internship, right? Mm hmm. But it think to be something you want to highlight. I know you already sent out your resume a lot. But I can add it. Can you put the latest one or send me the latest one? It's something I might want to work in there where you're like, Make it very clear that you're running a full course load plus working in internship.
John: [00:25:09] Yeah, how should I send it?
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:25:12] Through Skype is fine or just email, whatever. Okay. Or into that two-hour drive folder is fine, too. So like, it's one of those things where it's like perfect. Let me open it, actually right now because. Let's see here. Yeah, so like. Are you paying? Are you paying for school yourself?
John: [00:25:40] Taking, you know, my parents, my parents are helping me
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:25:44] Helping you, but you partially paying for it, getting any financial aid or no, no. So you could do something like University of California relevant, you could say, like even above coursework, internships during spring and fall semesters. Twenty to twenty-five to thirty-five hours per week, something like that, because it's I think that's impressive because a lot of kids will just do the summer thing. Mm-hmm. So they calling that out is good, because it's like you've been able to maintain a really high GPA, even with that, even with those internships. I think it's important. That's a great thing to point out during your. Like your streets? Yeah. During your interviews, because a lot of kids don't do that. But that's something you should definitely be pulling out and highlighting for them.
John: [00:26:41] Yeah, I think a majority of my like professional experience has been throughout the school year. Yeah, like. I mean, yeah, I've had internships over the summer, but some of them started either in the spring or carried over into the fall quarter.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:26:57] Yeah, and that's hard. That's really hard. Another thing on the latest internship, do you have any, any you have transaction experience under Harvey, but do you have anything under Riley that you can put there one or two deals?
John: [00:27:10] Yeah, I can put one or two deals there. Could you just be more or less the same thing?
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:27:15] Could you talk to them? Can you talk about the deals John Like, do you know the model well enough in the numbers, if somebody?
John: [00:27:23] Well, yeah, they didn't have us work too much on the models that the two deals that I worked on or much at all, once the models that we've kind of helped is like spreading comps or spreading like income statements and balance sheets.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:27:37] But at the same time, you could there's nothing stopping you from opening that model and knowing the top level.
John: [00:27:42] Yeah, yeah. Digging through it, yeah, I understand.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:27:45] Not a lot. But like if you put a deal on there, I'd want you to know the numbers like around like what was it? What do they pay for it, universe and stuff like that?
John: [00:27:54] Yeah, I understand like the EBITDA revenue and multiples that I went for two more deals. And like,
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:28:00] If it was a bad deal, do you have an opinion on it, on how the comps are trading and all that stuff?
John: [00:28:05] Got it. Yeah, I don't have an opinion on it or any of that. I just know like the facts, opinion.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:28:09] Yeah. So an opinion on like, what do you think it was a good deal or bad deal would be great. Or you felt like it was fairly valued, blah. But. Is it mostly by side or sell side, I think it sell-side, right?
John: [00:28:27] Mostly sunny side, yeah. All of it's been sell-side,
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:28:30] Which is cool because you did buy side before that advisory. Ok. So, yeah, I think I think that would help. I think that would help highlight the number of hours like I didn't even it didn't even click to me, didn't even register that you're doing that. And that's like a big selling point. So a couple of things I want from you. I want to see that Google Doc that goes over like the stories that we talked about, like, tell me what you've been using in these interviews, like what have you actually been saying? Because like, maybe I'll be like, Oh, don't say that, or let's focus more on this or tell me more about this specific story. Got it! So send me that for sure. And then for this, I'll give it some thought in terms of where we can potentially do those that our thing, but it probably be above relevant coursework like.
John: [00:29:17] Right there. Ok, that makes sense. I'm thinking about maybe moving like minor and accounting up. Yeah. So where the quantity of economics is and then maybe like after graduation, yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:29:28] You could put it right there in the minor. You could say quantum economics, comma minor accounting that you could put below that where the minor in accounting is, you could put 30 plus hours of internship during school year per week during the year. Ok.
John: [00:29:47] Now, okay, sounds good. I think that would be then, okay. And then in terms of like also coming up a few like boutiques or middle-market firms I've talked to up in Seattle, they're going to start recruiting come January and February again. I've been having like I've had constant communication with them the past few months. I've had at least three points of touch and they've responded back to me. So come then I'll hopefully, hopefully, I'll have something by then. But two three
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:30:20] Points, meaning three points to the same person or three points different,
John: [00:30:24] Different points in the same person.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:30:26] And there's they're telling you like, yeah, we'll get you in for a first-round or they're saying, like, what's the response back specifically
John: [00:30:34] One of them? Them's like, Yeah, we'll get you in for a first round. I'm like, I'll keep you posted, and I'm like, I just keep hitting them up about it. He actually sent me to the lead recruiter. And then the other one is like. Thanks for keeping me posted on your recruitment and whatnot. We haven't opened up endless recruitment yet, but you'll be the first to know kind of
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:30:56] Type deal and they kind of give you a range of times and when it might happen.
John: [00:31:01] Yeah, they say Q one January, February.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:31:05] Yeah, everything shut down for the rest of the year because we're now like a week before the holidays and stuff. But yeah, I think early January, you want to have like a bunch of stuff teed up to go. Yeah, I'd really like, yeah, I really like Tuesday is going to be like, you should be like, you call it like fat Tuesday. If it's basically like just emails, just all, you know, 100 emails, just like, keep them up, schedule them and just have it ready to go because start off the new year, start the new year, right?
John: [00:31:38] Yeah. And then. In terms of like noninvestment banking stuff, I haven't really looked into that yet. Well, I've looked into like gas and I've hit up. A couple of people haven't really got responses yet, so I'll have to keep up on that. Are you there? I know you told me to look for FEMA as well. I need to start that. That's basically what I'm trying to say is like, I need to get on that. Yeah, as well as it sounds like about investment making.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:32:09] It sounds like you're struggling to keep up with everything so you're doing because you're working 20 to 30 hour, you're working a long time at the internship. You just had finals. Your finals are done now, but you're still working
John: [00:32:22] Like a lot. So I'll be working this week.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:32:24] So. It's like the holidays are a nice little reprieve, but then you start school again. But then you get to start like where you really got to start weighing like the extra point on the GPA versus like having a job. You know what I mean?
John: [00:32:40] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, that's true.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:32:42] It's like you would you rather have a job with a three-five or rather get like a three-six, five or three seven?
John: [00:32:48] Yeah, I have a three five. Yeah. And that's the thing. Like, I think my GPA did drop this quarter. So we'll see. But yeah, I'm trying. It's just a matter of keeping up with everything.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:33:00] Yeah. And your GPA should have dropped. So that's OK. I think it's hopefully didn't plummet, but we'll see about that. We'll see. So hopefully not. But Yemen, I think let's just keep. What about networking again, let's talk about that like you haven't had a chance. Is there a certain number you're hitting each week a certain plan?
John: [00:33:23] Now, the past two weeks haven't really hit anything, really, maybe like a couple here and there to reach out to specific like I reached out to the guy at Stout just because I applied and I really wanted to see like what's going on with that. And then I reached out to the guy from Tito's advisors just because he was a friend of a friend, and I thought he can give me some background on the recruitment process. Yeah. And one analyst at Wedbush, it's just like around companies that have already like initiated processes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:33:49] Yeah. And I think the danger of that is like, you're just you're kind of. Getting into the trap of being busy or being busy with all the stuff where people are taking from you, so like this, this internship that you're working 30 hours a week. Are they paying you? Yeah. So they're at least paying you. But are they going to give you a full-time offer when you graduate? Potentially.
John: [00:34:14] Probably not. Probably not. Just because they don't offer a full time. They don't offer return offers here in the office at this specific office. I don't know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:34:23] I don't think you need. I would say, don't do the internship in the winter. Okay. I don't think it. I don't think the value adds of continuing that internship and losing those 30 hours a week. Is worth the incremental potential one or two deals more like you can get what you need to get on your resume already. Got it from the center. And like, that's huge. Imagine, instead of 30 hours at the internship, you're putting 30 hours into networking for the last six months before you graduate. I think that's a lot more important, like hitting the job search like a maniac like ideally instead of 30, like, you know, you're putting in 10 hours into the job search, you're working 30 hours for these guys who aren't even get you a full-time offer. Like no offense, but like you,
John: [00:35:05] You got to look out now. And it makes sense. It makes sense. It makes sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:35:07] So I wouldn't even try to get the winter internship unless you like, really need the cash. I think it's better to like if you can survive on what you have. Just use that time to really like double down on the networking and like your schoolwork should be in like maintenance mode like get the pluses and minuses with anywhere you can. Yeah, and your and your and should be as limited as possible and like your full-time job should be the networking.
John: [00:35:36] Yeah, I have some nice gaps in winter. Come winter, it's going to be like. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, like all day, I'm pretty much free, and then Tuesdays and Thursdays just loaded the classes so that Monday, Wednesday, Friday is going to be pretty nice just to sit down and get work done. Yeah, that's huge. That's huge. And then the weekends, too. Yeah, weekends, definitely. Yeah, that's prime real estate
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:36:01] Seven days a week. If you want to get into banking and get to work like a banker.
John: [00:36:06] Yeah, definitely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:36:07] Definitely. No, I. I think. I think you're going to be in good shape, it's just a question of like. Doing the interview. So like the problem is with how much time this internship is taking, you have very little time for technical interview prep. You have very little time for financial modeling and you have very little time for networking. You're kind of spreading yourself across those three critical things that you should be doing. You know, you're getting like five hours a week on each when you should be putting like 15 hours on each.
John: [00:36:38] And remember, that's what you said at the beginning of this quarter. You said that the internship is a blessing and a curse because like, it's going to take away a lot of valuable time, but it's going to give me an added boost to my resume.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:36:48] I think I feel like it's done that like it's done its job. Like all I would say, the only thing I would change about your resume is just getting one or two deals and knowing them really well, knowing them. Okay, so like, get the models either like don't say I said this, but like, grab them, grab the file, somehow slip so you have them to like, study or take screenshots or whatever you have to do to remember the financials so you can talk about the deals intelligently when you're not working there. So you don't have access to those files, right? So. But like, have that stuff, have all the memos, all that stuff, so that you can, even if you anonymize it, doesn't matter, you know what I mean? It's more just that you're having things that you can talk to in the interview.
John: [00:37:32] Got it. Ok, so I was feeling a little down earlier, but I'm feeling kind of excited, reinvigorated right now, so
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:37:40] We'll get it. I mean, if you drop that internship for the winter, when would be the winter like working January, February kind of thing?
John: [00:37:47] Yeah. January, February, March.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:37:49] Dude, your dog at that point, like
John: [00:37:53] You need those hours. Yeah, yeah. I know I was talking to one of the VP's here, too, and he was like, You should definitely talk to like one of the associates because he like handles, the internship programs that you talk about, the associate about possibly staying the winter. So like now I'm torn, but I totally understand, like not coming back and taking the time to really focus on myself. And well, if they tell you
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:38:14] If they say to you like, there's a good chance there might be an opening and analyst opening in L.A. and if you stick around.
John: [00:38:21] Possibly. Yeah, that's something I'm going to have to bring up to them like if I stay is a possibility that I can maybe move to L.A.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:38:26] And if I would, that's a good time to bring it up because you can be like because, to be honest, like, I don't have a job come graduation. Yeah. And so my focus has to like, start switching towards that, you know, be honest. Frantic job search.
John: [00:38:41] Yeah, because
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:38:43] I love, you know, I want to be in banking and I love to continue working with you guys and get this full-time offer. But I also have to like, do this and you can even tell them like, I would love to work for the L.A. office, and I don't mind it being a low salary. Mm hmm. Because I think they're really cost-conscious, but if you say like you're willing to work for like and it, I would tell you to work for thirty thousand a year.
John: [00:39:05] It doesn't matter just to get my foot in the door.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:39:07] Does it matter? Because then you get the full time you're going to get recruited as soon as you have one year of analyst experience on your resume with three or four deals? Boom, you can lateral like that. Or if they don't pay you, you can do you know what I mean?
John: [00:39:19] So it's like
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:39:20] This. It's just about getting those deals on your resume, not as an intern, but actually as the lead analyst with financial modeling. And you will suddenly become. But if then if you don't, if you don't get the job, then six months go by and you don't have anything, you're in a
John: [00:39:34] Much worse shape. Mm hmm. Yeah, that yeah. I don't want to be there. So, yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:39:41] So what I'd say to you is like, see if you can sell them somehow you're in there already, see if you can sell them, somehow bring you on full time.
John: [00:39:48] Mm hmm. Yeah, I'm going to try and do that then.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:39:51] And if not, be like. Respectfully, say peace.
Speaker2: [00:39:56] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:39:57] I personally meant that's 30 hours is a lot to be giving them through February through March when you're like and so like, we have classes and you're trying to land a job.
John: [00:40:08] Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, no, I understand, I understand. I'm going to talk to them and see what's up, and I'll let you know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:40:16] Fight for yourself, man. Fight for yourself.
John: [00:40:18] Ok, well, I will.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:40:19] Ok, we will. I guess we can call. Any other questions? Thoughts anyway, a way I can help.
John: [00:40:26] I'll probably get you this doc by the in the next couple of days, if not by the end of the week, hopefully by Thursday one birthday and then give you a shout-out next week for maybe a possible mock.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:40:39] Yeah, that's a good idea. Let's do that. And I know you're traveling. Yeah, it can be. That's easy, though. I can just hop on the phone. I only have three kids, four years old and under travel. It'll be. It'll be easy. They'll be screaming in the background. You can laugh at me. How are the Lakers doing?
John: [00:40:57] I was just about to bring up the hat, yeah, this is great
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:41:01] Stuff like that.
Speaker2: [00:41:01] We had a few struggles. There aren't doing too bad, I mean, a couple of bumps in the road, but I mean, but
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:41:07] Hey, we're just came back. We had some injuries where now Marcus Smart is out with his eye infection.
John: [00:41:13] So yeah, hopefully you guys can get back into rhythm. Hopefully, my leg is going to be talking to my Lakers are doing great. What happened?
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:41:24] One injury, one injury? You guys are done.
John: [00:41:28] Either one of you guys go down. They won't listen. Knock on wood. They're not going to get injured.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:41:33] Lebron's old man, LeBron's old. He's almost my age.
John: [00:41:38] He's old, but I feel like he's smart about how he plays and very cautious about not getting hurt.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:41:44] Yeah, yeah. Anyways, when are the first ones, the first Celtics Lakers this year? It's got to become an option.
John: [00:41:51] I'm not sure we'll talk. I'm not
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:41:52] Sure. We gotta talk some trash leading up to that then.
John: [00:41:55] Yeah, I know we got the Bucks this Thursday, so that's a huge game and I'll be watching that one. Yeah, that's guys. I hope not.
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:42:04] They know they've been coming on strong actually lately.
John: [00:42:07] Yeah, they are
Patrick (CEO of WSO: [00:42:08] Tearing through tapes, but we'll see anyway. All right, man, we'll have a great birthday. Get me that. And yeah, just give some thought about that internship because I think that's key. Just cutting some of that off.
John: [00:42:20] Yeah, yeah. I will for sure, appreciate your project.
Patrick (CEO of WSO [00:42:23] Have a good night. You, too. Bye. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.
or Want to Sign up with your social account?