Monkey to Millions | John (Session 8) - Hope in the Time of Covid? - Apr 6, 2020
About
In this episode, we get some exciting news from John on the job search front even in the face of multiple canceled super days. We talk a little bit about poker (no-limit Holdem), and postpone our meetup over a beer for 2 months when we both hope this Covid mess comes to an end. Listen to my advice around how John is trying to make himself useful in his new potential internship while working remotely. This could be relevant for quite a while...
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WSO Podcast (Episode 8) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:04] Well. Hello and welcome, I'm Patrick Curtis, chief monkey of Wall Street Oasis, and this is monkey to millions. A show where you get a front row seat as I mentor young students and professionals to try and help them break into their dream jobs in the first cohort. You'll meet four students, all preparing for intense job interviews while trying to also balance a personal life and schoolwork. The goal of this show is to shine a light on the struggles of trying to break into competitive positions with a non-traditional background and to give you a roadmap for your own success. My hope is that as you get to know these four impressive students, you're inspired to dream big. Remember, these are real people, and this is their true story. Let's get to it. In this episode, we get some exciting news from Jon on the job search front, even the face of multiple canceled super days. We talk a little bit about poker. No limit hold'em and postpone our meet up over a beer for two months when we both hope this co-invest comes to an end. Listen to my advice around how John is trying to make himself useful in this new potential internship while working remotely. This could be relevant for quite a while. Enjoy. Ok, how much a month? How much a month changes everything? It is April six. When did we last talk? I guess early March. Yeah, about a month ago. About a month ago. So now the world is basically ending. Basically, everyone's in quarantine processes you are in have now been canceled. Correct? Yeah. Postpone, definitely. So let's talk game plan because it's kind of unprecedented times right now. Yeah. Do it. You're probably not going back to classes this year.
John: [00:02:17] Nope. Just classes from
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:19] Home, right? Which means you're basically can just have to take an exam and do your homework, right? Stuff like that. Yeah, it's basically that. Yeah, I mean, some of my professors are making the like Zoom meetings mandatory, actually all but one
John: [00:02:38] Or so at least login. Do you show
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:42] That on your show, you got a hoodie on and you're done you have to show your face, your face or do you can you just log in? They ask you to, but I don't. I just kind of log in and sit there and maybe do other things I don't know. Go on LinkedIn. See what's good? Yeah. So tell me what's been going on. So like I know since the last time we talked, you sent me a few messages showing me that, like other places have been put on hold. What's the status right now of your whole like all of your opportunities right now? So previously when we talked,
John: [00:03:21] I was about to have two super days with two banks in L.A.. I was about to be flown out to Seattle for another a few weeks after that. And then another bank in Seattle told me that they weren't going to pick up recruitment until a little later in May. I think they kind of foresaw everything that was going to happen. And then the consulting super Day that I had with Kpmg, I thought I had that in the bag. I really thought I had the offer. And then a week later, they said, Yeah, they don't know what they're going to need in like a few months. So they just said, Yeah, yeah, they said, like, you know, thank you for your interest. We're super interested in you, but we're just going to have to put like the offer. They didn't really say that, but the offer on hold, I think they had a couple of spots open and I felt like I killed it. So I had a good feeling about that. But you know, everything happens for a reason. And ever since then, I've been maintaining touch with the banks that put everything on hold. One of them just said, like, you still like following up with the team, see what they want to do. Potentially, they want to maybe pull like a Zoom Super day. The other banks that are just saying, like just, we're still waiting on everything. I think they'd rather just meet up in person. On top of following up with everybody that I've been in touch with, I've just been networking a lot. My connections well surpassed 1000 thousand connects about a couple of weeks ago. I know when we last talk, I was like maybe around 750, so I've been putting in a lot of work on LinkedIn. And then with the result of that kind of a new interesting opportunity came up. There's this boutique in Newport beach, Newport slash Irvine. They underwent some restructuring lately with like their upper-level management, they actually have offices in New York and Washington, D.C. as well. And I spoke to a director there who was previously an alum. Um, GCI, yep. And then went to another bank and then recently moved back down here to Newport Beach and got a position with a boutique. They said they're looking to potentially hire an analyst soon. They put that on hold
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:47] Like everybody else. Ok, well, no, they put that, she said. She put that in like, I connect with her in January. This is before everything went down. And they put that on hold just because of everything that's
John: [00:05:57] Going on with restructuring. And then she followed up with me in the beginning of February, and I started having like kind of interviews with I talked to another MD there. I talked to a VP there, and I had a conversation with analysts. They're pretty typical, not as technical as I expected. It was more so about my background, learning about who I am. And this past Friday, I spoke with one of the MDS again, and they want me to basically start out as an intern this spring once everything dies down, and I pretty much made it a point to him like out our conversation, he kind of asked me like, Oh, what are you looking to get out of this internship here? I was like, Well, initially, like when I was contacting the director, like the other lady, I was looking for a full-time opportunity. So I kind of like on top of like me saying, Look, I want to learn more about investment banking or about other things. I kind of said that as well. And he said, Yeah, like that can definitely be an opportunity for you. They, just like one of their analysts, just left collateral somewhere else. So there's an opening there. I mean, they had a pretty lean deal team. That was one analyst, one associate, one V.P.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:05] The analyst just left. Do you know where he went? Yeah. Or she went, No. Linkedin there. Linkedin hasn't been updated yet. Oh, the person that left because
John: [00:07:16] I mean,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:16] That's the whole thing. Man is getting in so like it. Yeah, literally. If you have to work for twenty thousand a year, it doesn't matter. Yeah. And remember, you said that it doesn't matter. Like if you can get the relevant, the right experience, even if it's a boutique and you're only doing a couple sell sides. But if you have some M&A, boom your next job like you skipped, you've now skipped
John: [00:07:37] Like years as if
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:39] You had gone to that KPMG job or the other jobs in consulting, and we're trying to get to IB.
John: [00:07:45] Mm hmm. You skipped years, especially if you keep
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:47] Taking the approach that you're taking with aggressive networking for your career and you just keep meeting a ton of people, there's going to be like interesting stuff popping up all the time. That's probably the most important thing that you've learned throughout all this with all the crap that's hitting the fan right now is like when shit hits the fan, it's really your network that bails you out, whether you're fired. Like, when I got fired, it was my network is the people I trained with at Rothschild. I worked with that. That saved me. Yeah. And a lot of these, a lot of these people that I've been talking to recently, like the new people have meaning they really liked,
John: [00:08:19] I guess, like my fire-like networking during this time. And they said, keep it up. And a lot of these people were laterals into their bank that they're out now. One guy I recently spoke to yesterday, he said he was working at a bank, Kane Brothers, out in using New York because he was interviewing for San Francisco, and he said he went to New York. And then after a year, he, you know, didn't really love what he was doing. So he lateral to another bank in New York who only takes a lateral hires. So he said, like, I think that was a great connection to make. He said, Definitely, let me know how recruiting right now goes. So I'm definitely keep that one open. And another good connection I made was with Cece alum Harris Williams. And he said, Yeah, like, let me know how it goes right now and in a year come. If you need any collateral like we can think about that, that's a good
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:12] Thing. I mean, if you could go to this boutique in Newport and then lateral to Harris Williams in a year or two or even two years, you're off to the races, man. Yeah. So I mean, I think, yeah, I think like I think they seem super like the boutique in Newport. I think they seem super pumped to have me actually. One of the directors reached out to me personally via text, which was like, Really? I mean, that's not. I mean, he said, he said it's an intern. So he said it's an internship that could potentially lead to a full-time, full time, and I made it set. So like all you have to do is do the internship kill the internship right that now goes above schoolwork? Yes, graduate. Don't fail out of it. Yeah. Well, like, that's the number one priority is for you to kill it there. And then even if they try to say to you, Hey, we just don't have the budget, we don't have the deal flow right now because that may happen. Like, let's say if it's like in the summer when they're like, OK, the internship is over, you basically want to be like, pay me ten bucks an hour or whatever.
John: [00:10:09] Mm hmm. It doesn't
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:10] Matter, but I really want
John: [00:10:12] To be given the full
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:13] Time experience. I understand you guys don't have the budget right now because the deal flow is not here. But if you guys could just keep me on, I'll work for dirt cheap because for me, the experience at this stage of my career is much more important. Makes sense. Yeah. They'll be like, What the hell?
John: [00:10:26] But like, it's
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:28] The smart move long-term, man. ] Yeah, you're right, I mean, definitely something going to take. The only other better place. The only other thing I would say to you is if you could get into like a Rothschild restructuring group, like I said right now would be. Yeah, I saw I saw your post on LinkedIn about getting into a restructuring group right now, like or like the restructuring groups like Deal Flow. Right now, it's saying, I bet. Yeah, like a Houlihan or a Rothschild or Lazard.
John: [00:10:54] I'm sure they're super busy. Yeah, it's I think they start all people as interns, though, because he says his VP now who I recently spoke to, actually had a phone call with her today. This is my second phone call with her today. I basically reached out to her again and saying, Hey, I spoke to MD. And like, I got the internship offer like verbally. And because he told me to basically look into like start setting for the sea. Yeah, so that's something I'm going to start doing now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:26] Yeah, if you can get through, I'll see if I can get you access to that. Ok, so be awesome. Yeah. Through a partner, you have to pay something because it's like a partnership deal, but you can probably get it. Yeah, but basically she was an intern at first two before she moved up as and like before she moved up to VP. Like how many people are in the Newport office or the Irvine office? What are we going to call it? Well, previously there was four. There was, I think there previously before the restructuring.
John: [00:11:58] There's like eight and then now there's only four.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:01] Ok. It's basically like they split the partners split or something.
John: [00:12:04] Yeah, yeah. One of the principals love to another bank took an associate analyst with him and then one analyst like, fled somewhere else.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:13] Got it! Ok. And so the partner is still there, the lead guy or gal? Yeah. Yeah, you guys still there and CEO and then the MD. He specializes in health care, and he kind of does other deals on the side. But he said ninety five percent of the stuff he does is health care. And they recently brought in the new director, who's the UCI alone. She does industrials and consumer deals 90 percent of the time and then like 10 percent of the time, she kind of just picks up whatever. And then the VP, they're kind of giving her like M.D. responsibilities now, too. I mean, she got her MD from UCLA, like, she's actually like an actual doctor. She's an actual doctor. Yeah, she said she didn't like it. And then she went, Yeah, so she's doing some. She's actually bringing in business now. Yeah, now, she said. She said she's starting to bring in business. They're giving him more responsibility on that front. So super cool. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, even if you go there and work a couple of years and grind or a year and it's horrible in terms of it's hard to know before you're there if it's horrible to the culture or whatnot, if it's a great place and there's room to grow and you stay there, awesome. If not, it's horrible. You at least have hopefully some deals on your resume. Yeah, I mean, that'd be a best case scenario. Any deals on your on your resume in this in this environment? It's going to be it's going to be good. And then you're joining the class of oh two my class and the class of 08 in terms of great timing, right? And although a lot of fraternity alumni are reaching out to like the graduating
John: [00:13:45] Class two, but they're not offering any type of yeah, like guys from 08, they have like this big Facebook page of like everybody current to past fraternity members, and they're like, Hey, if you ever need help or if you want to talk about this and this, like, let me know, like my company might have anything open, but they're doing, they're not really doing ivy or anything on that front. So yeah, I reached out to them. Tell me about
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:10] Sorry, are you reached out to them? Ok, yeah. Tell me what happened. I reached out to them. I spoke to them. But they're mostly doing sales and software, which is interesting, and I'm sure it's really lucrative. But in terms, yeah, in terms of like my background and my interest, it's not really there.
John: [00:14:27] Yeah, a lot of cold
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:29] Emails and phone calls all day doing that now. Yeah. Cool. I mean, sale, I mean, investment banking is a sales job eventually if you're going to move up.
John: [00:14:40] Yeah, but yeah, exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:42] Yeah, man, I think, well, that's great to hear. That's some good news. I mean, so the offer the guy basically gave you the offer. And so you'd be starting when you said you said I'd like to. I mean, he said, let's follow up in two weeks and see like where the public like public health and economic state, more and more. So public health with a public health estate state is then he wants to get me in as soon as possible because he doesn't, you know, obviously, I don't have like the set up at home to do anything. You don't. So why not? I mean, I have my laptop. Yeah, but he says he says he said he'd like me to do, like, come into the office. I mean, I'm
John: [00:15:19] Going to reach out sooner than two weeks. I mean, this is only this past Friday.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:22] Why don't you say you'll come in and you'll keep six feet? I don't. Don't be irresponsible. No, I mean, you've got to follow the orders if it's like, yeah, it's illegal basically to. But I mean, you could do a lot from remote as long as you have a PowerPoint and Excel. If yeah, you could get on a call like this and be like, Hey, just mute me, I could take notes for you.
John: [00:15:44] And then
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:45] I'm saying, like, even if you want to help the director
John: [00:15:50] With anything,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:51] Whether it's like arranging a slide, taking off like some industry research, I mean, the problem is like, you're not really trained upon how they do things yet, but if you could even just start getting access to files and stuff. Yeah, I asked her. I literally, senator, it was like, hey, like, there's anything you could send me, she said.
John: [00:16:09] Just hold on. Kind of. Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah, I was trying to show that I was eager to help and learn and they're like, you know, no, no, I'm going to reach out sooner than the two weeks that he told me to reach out to him.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:21] Ok. Yeah, I mean, because my guess is it's probably not going to in California. I don't think our peak is coming till end of April. Yeah, I don't know how it is done in Irvine, but I think New York is hitting peak probably this week in terms of how bad it is. But out here, I think it's been hopefully, I think California is one of the more aggressive states in terms of shutting things down. So I think you might, you know, fingers crossed, be less dramatic in terms of COVID hitting everywhere. The problem is as soon as you open things up and everyone starts going back to offices, it's going to start spiking cases. So I think the first thing they're going to let back is kids in school.
John: [00:17:02] That's like critical. But like, I mean, my sisters are done for the year.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:08] Well, everyone's done for the year. But I mean, even summer school like preschools and day-care, so other people can go to work. Yeah, I mean, A lot of people have kids, too, you know, so like, it's I think that's going to be one of the main things, but then they're probably going to have to have all the testing ready. So I don't know, man, like I can see it being at least a month more. Okay. Yeah. So I mean, I'll definitely reach out and ask them, like, hey, like I have to have excel. I can definitely help from home. Yeah, like, just tell me, you want me to run any sort of industry research to her, any sort of analysis. You want to send me any slides to clean up. We can start turning them. I can do it. We can do video calls on Zoom or Skype or whatever or FaceTime or whatever. It's easier for you guys and then I can do. Yeah, I can take notes and whatever you guys need. So, yeah, I mean, they're probably all working remotely, right? Are they going in still all of them working remotely, except for one of the MDS, the guy focusing on health care? Yeah, he says he can't focus at home with the kids. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I don't know if he's going to watch this, but. Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think basically. I would try to be don't be crazy aggressive in terms of getting work online because they may not want to deal with trying to train you remotely because it's hard enough to train somebody like live. So maybe it should be like asking if you can get access to like their internet or their files permanently. I think that would be good, because then you could look at old models, old deals and start getting familiar with, like what they've done recently. That would be helpful, but yeah, man, I mean, if they can bring you on. Even if they're paying you dirt cheap, nothing having a job graduating to this in in the right in the industry, kind of you want to be in. It's actually long term to set yourself up to either lateral to a strong bank or even stay there or a lateral to a really strong middle-market shop to help you potentially get to the buy Side or do whatever you want. Corp Dev Corp Fin, I think that's a that's that would be an amazing scenario coming out of this. Yeah, hopefully. Fingers crossed. I mean, I have a good feeling about this. Yes. Anything else? So that sounds like you had been you'd been chatting with them for a while or that was a new one. Yeah, no. I've been chatting with them since, like January. Then it's kind of put on hold for a little bit and reach out to me. End-February, right? The restructuring started. Yeah. So that's good. And then anything else, you had a couple of good other contacts you said from the latest batch and networking and stuff. Yeah, just been networking, reaching out to people on, I mean, getting referrals to speak with other people on basically everything that you know. All the good conversations that I had either have given me advice, speak to other people. When you're reaching out to new people, are you saying like something like, Hey, I know it's crazy times or are you like or are you just being? Are you doing the same exact class heretofore? No. Kind of. Like, I know, like I understand, like your firm is not technically hiring like right now, I kind of like throw in like with the current economic and political climate, I understand
John: [00:20:24] Your firm may not be hiring one of 20 analysts or you're like, You guys are all done. But like, I'd love to learn about you, your career in the firm. They're really receptive to that. And I think they're really happy that I'm reaching out during this time. Yeah, I mean, everybody is working at home. Nobody's seeing anybody.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:43] Yeah, you are. People are open. People are open to chatting now. I just didn't want this job in his career. He knows we're not going to hire him. All right. I'll get on the phone with him. Yeah. Well, like when they do, when I do hop on the phone with them and I do, you know, I do get out, show off my personality and, you know, give them my resume, show off my background. I think they're really receptive to keeping that line of communication open.
John: [00:21:04] And you can make,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:05] You know, do a lot of damage over the next couple of months. Yeah, and that's what I'm hoping for, like just reaching out to these people and keeping the connections open.
John: [00:21:12] Actually, there's this other firm. This is kind of like kind of weird that popped up on a handshake like this, like,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:21] Ok and a handshake for the listeners that don't know, it's basically an online job portal for, like a lot of colleges use. Right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's possible that this was an interesting opportunity. It's an investment firm. Mm hmm. Call themselves a VC, but they do direct secondaries and start-up companies,
John: [00:21:43] So they invest in these start-up companies that are usually under stage through acquiring shares from employees or other venture capitalists that are trying to exit. Um, interesting, and I spoke to the analyst or associate, he's an associate now that posted the job on handshake we found on LinkedIn and we had a good phone call and we've just been chatting here and there on LinkedIn. I got just been asking questions about the start of space, about different SaaS companies, and we've just been having like mutual conversations. He told me at the time of our initial phone call that they were going to put the recruiting process on hold until everything goes back to normal until they can bring people in. Yeah, but that's something that really piqued my interest that once I do start being bring people in, I'm definitely going to go in and interview with them. Yeah, you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:35] Should. I mean, it's a little I'd be careful with jobs with like when you're missing in secondaries, you're doing kind of just making sure you're looking very carefully about the type of analysis you're doing in that in the analyst role. So make sure it's not like some weird, repetitive analysis where you're just looking at like where it's not like a fund of funds type role. Where you're buying up positions from VC funds and. You know, I think it probably would be interesting, but it's I don't know in terms of how they're valuing these, evaluating these companies. So you want like I mean, in terms of like my future career outlook, you would say it's more beneficial to get some maybe like financial modeling or quantitative like valuation work. Yeah, because of my worry is you go into this space and then like, you start getting into like these, you get a little bit goes a little bit softer or you get yourself super niche into like software SAS, for example, and you're only, you know, SAS extremely
John: [00:23:32] Well. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:33] And then you're basically like an expert there. But like, now, where can you take that? Where else can you take that and apply? I mean, potentially other places. But like my greater concern is the
John: [00:23:46] Type of work you'd be doing
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:48] Day to day there and how applicable that is across a wide range of industries where it's like financial modeling and excel work and PowerPoint work is basically any company could use that like any company can use those skills. Almost any company can use those skills, whereas like if you're investing in like a niche type of like VC fund or in a secondary fund, like if you're if it was VC where you're actually evaluating companies and like making direct investments, I'd be a little more excited. But if it if it's like a if it's an odd like fund to fund situation where they're or they're only investing in secondaries, you just be careful about the function of the specific job, not how it's cool, what they're doing. But what is your role going to be in there to think about? Like, is that good for me as my first step out of school? Okay, that makes sense. The other thing is, if you brand yourself, if you brand yourself as VC, it's good if you want to stay in B.C. long time, if you're really passionate about, like early stage. But it's also particularly potentially hurt you if you do want to get into more the financing realm later, they'll be like everything, she says. B.s. on your, you know, your resume. I just feel like I feel like banking keeps a lot of doors open, which is why a lot of kids do it. Okay. Yeah, I'll definitely like think about it and ask specifically about the type of work you follow. Definitely. Follow it up. Learn more about it. I think VC is exciting. It's a cool space. So yeah, for sure. I think don't drop it just cause I said, Hey, just more about like due diligence. Do your diligence specifically around the role like really drill down on what the day-to-day like for that? Like, how are they even sourcing the opportunities to purchase these shares? Got it going to be like the employees or from the. Or from the from the funds themselves, you know, okay, it's interesting business model. This I mean, they've had some pretty successful investments on your site. They've had four companies that bipod, so it seems pretty interesting. Nice. Yeah, no, I definitely it definitely makes sense. What are you talking about in terms of trying to get that right experience out the gate? Yeah. And you've got to be careful, too. When they like, let's say they were, they purchased the secondary after like Series C and then something iPod. That doesn't mean they had a huge return. Yeah, they killed it. You know what I mean? They could be like they could be getting in late or they could have had a couple this much. Yeah, they could have a little sliver. They put in like five million or something like that. And it great. It went to 15 million. But then they wrote a check for they wrote three other checks that went to zero, you know, and you don't hear about those so like, you know, you don't know. So I think, you know, drilling down a little bit and looking at their track record, how long they've been around stuff like that, it's important. Okay. Cool, man, what else is going on? Staying sane? How are you staying sane? Yeah, I mean, just been going on runs, which I've never done before and can't go out and play basketball, so I'm only not on runs.
John: [00:26:57] I recently picked up like studying the game of poker, specifically Texas Hold'em. Actually, I'm studying it. The statistics behind it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:06] All right, ready. I want to quiz you. Not yet, but what are your percentages of hitting a? Yeah. If what are your percentages of hitting a flush after two suits come out on the flop? I'll give you a hint. It's not 50, and this isn't hitting a flush if to return to suits, so if you have heart diamond, let's say what's your odds of heart coming out on the turn of the river? Ok, hold up, so you're saying what percentages of hitting a flush if you're you really know the flop. You know the flop. You've got to so you've got two hearts in your hand and you have two hearts on the board. So you just need one. You're one to a flush. You need one more heart come out, either on the turn or the river. You know what your odds are there? There's nine, I mean, assuming you can see the river. Me, you know how to calculate the equity in your hand, but like in terms of you get It, you can think of it like outside. So like when you're nine out? Yeah. Nine now it's basically, I mean, thirty-five simple, it's about thirty-five. Yeah. The simple trick is if you're on the flop and you have you basically do the amount of outs you have. If you're about two times, four times for exactly the times for and then the river is
John: [00:28:23] Two times two.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:25] Exactly. Yeah, look at you. Stunning little a little bit. I played, I played it in a little cash game last night with some alumni. Nice. I put in twenty-five bucks. They all put in 50. They're kind of teasing me. I first came out. I came out with a nice return. Let's just on you. A hundred bucks at home, at least. Yeah, yeah, a little. A little more than 100. Yeah, so it was good. I mean, I've been reading a little bit here and there, so it's been fun. Well, they're very different from tourney. You know, staying pretty tight if it's small lines can usually win because everyone likes to gamble. Yeah, everybody was playing a little loose, like, yeah, I just felt a little loose. There's one guy to my left who's playing extremely tight, so it's easy to call out when he had aces or kings as easy fold. So I'm starting to pick up these things.
John: [00:29:13] It's been fun.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:14] It's a fun game and I love. I was a co-president at Wharton Poker Club. No. Yeah, that's awesome. We had a lot of house games, had a lot of huskies at my apartment. Yeah, but yeah, it was a blast. I love the game. It's beautiful because it combines both statistics,
John: [00:29:33] Math like you're learning
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:34] That about that part. But the psychology behind it is really interesting, too. It's like picking up on the Tel's and stuff. It's so fun. Yeah. So you mentioned, you mentioned, you said the probability like, you're giving me the scenario of what she said. The probability is not the same as equity because I don't really have anybody to talk to about the game, which has been what I've been picking up from the book and I'm talking about probabilities is basically the chance of it coming out on the turn of the flop. So I don't know what you would call that, that people call it differently. They say, like you're probably taking equity-like full is or fold equity, meaning when you bluff, think of it, you can think of like fold equity as a term they use basically, are you gaining, are you expected value going up by betting in a certain situations such that the person will actually potentially fold a percentage of the time? That's actual, you're gaining equity by bluffing. Sometimes the right move is to bluff. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I know what that is, but I haven't like, I don't understand it. Like, I've It. Basically, it's I think you can think of it as like equity is like probability of you winning. So you want to grab as much equity as possible in whatever situation you're at, you're in. So there are in certain cases, there are definite right and wrong plays. In other cases, it's depending on who you're playing against like somebody really tied somebody really loose. It's like if you're playing against crazy loose people, you want to tighten your range a lot. If you're playing like super-type people, you want a wider range, but then obviously back down if they're if they make a stand, right? So yeah, it's interesting, man, you should go to when this thing opens up, you should go down to, I don't know. I don't know about down in Irvine what casinos you have near you, but you go to Vegas. The games are tough now. The games are tough because everyone knows like the basics now makes sense. Yeah, everyone knows now is good. Well, with online poker too, like kids that are 20 years old are better than the kids. The guys that are like 80 playing their whole life because they've seen the 20-year-olds have seen more hands and like the eight-year-olds, because they're doing, they're playing like six tables at a time and they see all these weird scenarios that you wouldn't necessarily get a lot of practice within a live setting. Yeah, that makes sense. Just like everything else, reps, men. Reps, reps, reps. get to the free-throw line. Stop running. Get to the free-throw line. Just start. Shoot your free throws. You can't fly at all. You can't even go to everything closed down like the parks there. Yeah, I mean, there's like there's the bicycle up in L.A. Then there's Pechanga Morongo south of us, but everything's closed basically. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, have online, I mean, I miss poker. Speaking of poker, I haven't played it enough. Three young kids who get no time. But yeah, man, maybe we could start an online. We could start an online room and get some. Get some guys on there. You can do. You still have it? You can still have a private. We could do like low stakes, like a ten dollar game and just do like a private
John: [00:32:38] Tourney through like Poker Stars.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:39] They still have like everyone. If everyone
John: [00:32:41] Downloads it and you could have like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:42] A private room, they don't know if you're gambling on it or not. So it's yeah, in that sense, just my mom. That's what they did, that in private room and they just demoed on the side. Can't do that. We're not going to do that. We're not going to do. We're not endorsing that. What's happening? We're not endorsing this. I don't know what Texas Hold'em is. So. Yeah, man, no, it's fun, it's a fun game.
John: [00:33:06] So in terms of
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:06] Other stuff, like you said, you're at over a thousand connections now on your LinkedIn, over a thousand. So what do you think? How long before you get to? I mean, if I keep doing it, if I keep it going at the rate, I'm going, yeah,
John: [00:33:22] Like three months time, If I slow down.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:27] Surprisingly, that's surprisingly that, you know? That it takes that long. Is it because you're being thoughtful about what you're writing in the message? No, I mean, I say the same thing every time I think it's a matter of just people hitting like, Oh, except like on, Some people were spawned without actually
John: [00:33:45] Accepting it, like when I first contacted the VP of the boutique that you know I'm going to intern for. She responded to me, but she didn't accept. And then after the second call, she accepted,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:59] Got it, and so do you feel like you're hit? What do you think your hit rate is right now? 20 percent say, yeah, I want to say like twenty five, you kind of hit like between May. Oh yes, at twenty five percent, you got to be like four thousand more requested. Yeah, two hundred a day, OK? I mean, it's a long, long time.
John: [00:34:25] Yeah, that you can get there.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:27] I mean, yeah, I mean, look, the point is just keep it, keep it going because no matter what happens with the boutique and stuff. It'll be good. And you've had a couple of good calls, it sounds like even this past week, even with people outside. Yeah, that yeah, yeah, that could be pivotal in your career in two or three years. Mm hmm. Like that guy? That's worth everything you've already done. Networking is having that one connection where the guy remembers you and like to you and puts you in front of the right people and you're prepped for four interviews at that point. Exactly. Yeah. So what do you think about interviews? Are you like feeling more confident on the technical stuff now? Yeah, I'd say so. I mean, I haven't had an actual interview in a while now. We haven't
John: [00:35:13] Sat down with a firm since maybe February. Yeah, it's like two, two months, two and a half months. Do you want to do a
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:20] Little mock right now? Would it be weird if I said, no, just no, that's okay, we can do it next month, I think you should do it, though?
John: [00:35:28] Ok. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:31] So in our next can you open up our invite for next month or whatever the next thing is? And can you write mock in there? So don't forget. Do right now. Because I did that with Grace recently, and I think it was really helpful she was strong, like for a freshman especially, she was super strong, but they were like little subtle things in their. Especially how you answer questions around what's going on in the market right now and COVID. I think it's pretty interesting to talk about like what type of investments would you make right now? You know, discretionary or consumer staples
John: [00:36:13] Or industrials,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:15] Oil and gas, some pretty interesting, depressed valuations right now. Market had like a record day today masks. Did you see? Did you see that? Yeah, I got the notification. Really? Look into it because I just been stuck.
John: [00:36:32] I had a phone call. I two phone call today and then I had, yeah, no worries.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:35] No worries. Up over seven percent each in one day. Seven point seven percent. The Dow is up seven point seven percent one day. What's that? I read, though, that the market really has these huge returns, though. Like you see these big
John: [00:36:51] Spikes record spikes during distressed times, though. So I mean, it's not I don't know if it's like a really good reflection of the market doing well. It's just maybe oh no, we're still way down.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:00] We're still down from the peak. I'm just saying it's oh, and I don't think I honestly think it's a little bit. This rally that we've had, I think, is just a total fake-out. Yeah, I think I think it's going to get really bad over the next couple of weeks, but I hope I'm wrong. I actually hope I'm dead wrong and I hope it at least like calms down a little bit. We don't need seven percent updates, which is like, how about a nice one percent a day where we were just one percent? It's a little bit. Just keep chipping at it. It'll I mean, it'll happen eventually.
John: [00:37:30] But we just got to know
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:32] There's no until you start seeing the curves sloping down, like
John: [00:37:37] In New York and in
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:38] Like a few days of actual cases and deaths like flattening out, I think there's going to be a ton of volatility.
John: [00:37:49] I heard cases in Spain and Italy. At least the cases of infections have started to slow down.
Patrick (CEO of WSO):: [00:37:56] Yeah, I just don't trust the case numbers. No, what do you trust then death? Deaths. It's morbid, but I mean. They don't even that they're undercounting the number of deaths in New York because a lot of people are dying at home.
John: [00:38:12] Okay. Yeah, so like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:13] But I think that's a lot more accurate than the case numbers when you're not testing anybody and everybody with mild symptoms is staying home and whatever, you know what I mean makes sense. I mean, that's yeah, I didn't
John: [00:38:25] Really think about it. I think it's a lot
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:26] More widespread than people realize. So but you, it's good and bad. It's good and bad news. It's good news in the sense that it may already have. Infected a large percentage of the population. So, like a lot of people have built up immunity. It's bad in the sense that like, well, a lot of people are sick or right now. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but. Imagine they found out later that I think I think in China they're saying 50 percent of the cases are asymptomatic. They had no symptoms at all. Yeah. So I imagine they find that out or it's like 60 percent here or whatever that like the cases are like triple what they actually like.
John: [00:39:07] The positive cases are actually triple. And that's why it was.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:09] So that's why it spread so effectively. So, yeah, I don't know. The case numbers are just like whoever comes into the hospital. I, you know, they get tested sometimes. If their symptoms aren't even that bad enough, they won't like,
John: [00:39:22] They won't like it. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:25] Yeah, my wife is a physician, she like early February, she had high fever, dry cough. She tested negative for flu and they couldn't test her. They said, No, you're fine. This is in February. This is like before I got really crazy here. Yeah, but she's seeing a bunch of, you know, she was seeing a bunch of people. She had a high fever. I mean, I'm pretty sure she had it. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, she's around you and the kids. So yeah, maybe I had the kids, the kids probably had it, but they don't. I think kids don't show it. I think their immune system just fights it off like a normal cold or whatever. You're just asymptomatic. Yeah. And I have a cough now, but I don't think I have it. But maybe you never know. I think I'm a pretty weak immune system. I'd probably be having worse fever and dry hacking like my wife. She's a lot tougher than I am, so I think I'd be in trouble. But yeah, man, I hope. I hope everyone's staying safe out there. I hope your family staying safe and you're doing the right thing by staying in or at least going out for runs by yourself and the only time actually gone out or like getting groceries in my parents. But that's
John: [00:40:34] Really it. It probably I'm probably not going to able to see you for. Another couple of months, I mean, you're supposed to come this month, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:41] I was supposed to be there now. Oh, we were supposed to be doing this over a beer. Yeah, oh man. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, probably a couple of months. We'll probably try to make it down there in the summer, though, for sure if things cost down a little bit. I assume I think I think it's going to be another month, you know, probably mid-May, I'm guessing before they start kind of not getting back to normal but start like reopening stuff like going from non-essential to or just essential to like slightly non-essential, a little bit more essential businesses and schools and then kind of closely monitoring. If if the spike, I mean, we may have another surge in like late May and then they shut everything down again, which would be horrible. You know, what's that like? Yeah, we have a pulling not going to like.
John: [00:41:32] We're going to shut down for the entire year.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:34] Yeah, it's going to be bad if that happens, so fingers crossed they can get the testing and the quarantining and everything done that they need to get done and get ramped. I mean, it's crazy out there, I know it's scary. It's definitely a new world here at home with the three kids at home and my wife's now working from home doing like telemedicine and it's just like different. I think she's going crazy. She doesn't. She doesn't like it. She just taken a call from patients, and they're just like explaining what they have and do Zoom. And she's using Zoom and like even FaceTime. Sometimes when she has to stuff like that, I think they thought they threw hip out the window, the compliance, because like, if it's an urgent patient that needs to be seen for like cancer or rash or whatever they need to be seen. No. So, yeah. Anyways, I'll let you run. Definitely keep me updated, keep paying me on Skype. Let me know about this like when, if, and when you can get in and let me know if or let me know what they're telling you for the remote work, if you can just start pitching in. Yeah, I'm going to reach out to them later this week. I'm going to wait for the two weeks and ask, yeah, what the deal is and see if I can do anything at home. I mean, yeah, just show that I'm eager to help and. You have PowerPoint in Excel, I mean, even if they say it's nothing you can do, but are there any files I would ask, are there any files I could get access to or deal written deal files I get access to from the most recent deal so I can just take a look and get familiar with what you guys have done. I think that would be good to show some initiative be like, wow, he's like looking through Old Deal talks. Okay. Very good. And then you can maybe create a list of questions, you can ask me that you can ask me questions on our next chat or after our mock, or you could save them if they're obviously they're confidential. You could save them for the director, but ask them all like all at once. You don't annoy her. We'll do. Now, I mean, and then and then, yeah, I just keep grinding on the networking side, obviously with a with a
John: [00:43:44] With a tone of I
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:46] Understand like you've been doing, I think that's smart. Mm hmm. Shows a definite start to all those schools in California. Like I went, I used sales navigator. Like you said, you
John: [00:43:57] Went through you. Cs Cal States went through the private ones like the Claremont McKenna's. Any recommendations? I mean, to like what next? Because like, I had that commonality like, Oh, we're from schools in California,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:14] I would do other state schools, Other state schools like Michigan. Okay, we're like any anyone that has a decent business program. Wisconsin. Could just be like, Hey, we're both state school kids. So you'd be surprised because a lot of them had had a struggle getting in. Okay, so that may be why, although they may be swamped with their own alarm, it'll be a lower hit rate, but it's still, I think, a good place to start. Okay, sounds good. Or people who love basketball. I mean, if people have
John: [00:44:52] That like if people have their interests on LinkedIn as they
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:55] Do, not as much. Yeah, it'd be a lot easier to find people that are interested in poker or basketball or
John: [00:45:03] Yeah, seriously. Any type of sport? Yeah. All right. Well, I'll
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:09] Let you run. Let me know if I can be helpful over the next couple of weeks. But yeah, you're doing everything right. And yeah, if you can get this internship turned into a full time offer, even if you tell them, Hey, I work for free. Yeah, my worry with that is they just may not have the work for you if they're like, Hey, we can't hire you, just maybe because they don't have the deal flow and then. Yeah, I mean, they're only like four people right now, so I
John: [00:45:33] Mean, what would they need like? I mean, I feel like they would maybe, right,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:37] But to have a deal if they have a couple of deals, yeah, they're going to need help. But if they don't, then they don't. That's the thing with these small boutiques is like it's feast or famine. It's like super crazy busy because you're all like they all of a sudden get like three deals at once and they're like, Oh, we only have one deal team or they have like nothing and they're pitching.
John: [00:45:54] Yeah, that makes sense. And I don't want to be just like on pitches.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:57] Yeah. Although I would say better to be stuck on pitches and nothing. Yeah. Makes sense.
John: [00:46:02] All right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:03] Well, good luck. Let me know if I can be helpful. And yeah, we'll postpone that beer, probably for a couple of months. Hopefully, hopefully you
John: [00:46:11] Forward to it
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:13] And I'll make sure I'll have my celtics.com hat on next. You wear your Laker's hat, it'll be. It'll be a very we'll get a good photo. I'm all for it. Let's do it. All right. We'll chat soon. Good luck. Bye. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis. And till next time.
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