Monkey to Millions | John (Session 9) - A New Internship and Planning for Post College Life - May 4, 2020
About
In this 9th episode, we hear about John's new investment banking internship as well as a part-time job he's picked up to bring in some side-income as he is in his final semester of college. John gives me a detailed update on the type of work he's trying to get at this IB internship and I try to encourage him to keep his networking efforts up to lay a strong foundation and build more relationships that will pay off over the next few years. We strategize a bit on how he can eventually try to get some income from the IB job but I try to reassure him that if he is able to get the right experience then he'll have a much better shot at lateraling...
Listen to the Monkey to Millions Podcast:
Or Listen to the Podcast Here:
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Stitcher
Resources:
WSO Podcast (Episode 9) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:04] Well. Hello and welcome, I'm Patrick Curtis, chief monkey of Wall Street Oasis, and this is monkey to millions. A show where you get a front row seat as I mentor young students and professionals to try and help them break into their dream jobs in the first cohort. You'll meet four students, all preparing for intense job interviews while trying to also balance a personal life in schoolwork. The goal of this show is to shine a light on the struggles of trying to break into competitive positions with a nontraditional background and to give you a roadmap for your own success. My hope is that as you get to know these four impressive students, you're inspired to dream big. Remember, these are real people, and this is their true story. Let's get to it. In this ninth episode, we hear about John's new investment banking internship, as well as a part time job he's picked up to bring in some side income as he's in his final semester of college. John gives me a detailed update on the type of work he's trying to get at this ibey internship, and I try to encourage him to keep his networking efforts up to lay a strong foundation and build more relationships that will pay off over the next few years. We strategize a bit on how he can eventually try to get some income from the ibey internship, but I try to assure him that if he's able to get the right experience, that he'll have a much better shot at laterally. Enjoy.
John: [00:01:47] It's been. It's been feels like a long process, but it's been a fun process and honestly, I wouldn't change it for the world. I know a lot of my friends had to like return offers after the summer, and they've been coasting to New Year. But I mean, I feel like this is just make me a stronger individual. So better professional.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:05] Yes. Ready for the long grind, right? That is your career. Yeah, that's the thing. No matter like, whether you come out at graduating with the job or you come out with a job that's not ideal to you, careers or super long. And it's funny because everyone going into like even as an MBA, everyone's like so freaked out about like recruiting for that one job after they're after their MBA. And then like within,
I think the status within five years and be like 80 percent of people have done at least two jobs or something. So, yeah, just know that where you start is not where you'll end up. So OK, let's yeah, let's give everybody just a little update because I'm curious.
John: [00:02:46] So I started that internship with the small boutique firm in Irvine. There's been like a lot of like changes within the firm, like I mentioned last time and actually now another VP left. So like, but they brought in two more directors. So it's like kind of the structure how it is now. It's kind of weird. I mean, I kind of sat down with like the senior partner and CEO today, but kind of what it is now, it's like Tim, another MBA that focuses on health care. I mean, he's been bringing in majority of the deals that I've been helping with a new MD. That kind of focuses on consumers and industrials. And I had a good talk with him. He seems really eager about giving me more
responsibility in terms of like modeling and helping out with the. He's bringing some of his clients from previous investment banking to this one. And then the fourth director that they're bringing on is kind of more of like. Marketing Typekit type person, she's worked in that kind of frame at other banks, so she's just helping on that front.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:51] Hopefully she doesn't take you into that
John: [00:03:54] Pull you up. Yeah, yeah, no, probably not. I mean, I kind of like,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:57] You've got to be careful these reverse pyramids. I call them the reverse pyramid structures. Yeah, where like it's like, it looks like this. They have no support. They have no associates, no analysts. And like a few interns,
John: [00:04:08] It's just me now. It's just you don't want it to bounce ideas off you and talk about, like, you know, plans for after this. I mean, they're great. I mean, they're
giving me like a bunch of work AB here. Just take notes. I can tell you a little bit more about the structure of the firm. I sat down with the CEO today and he was kind of like, Tell me about everything. It seems like they want me for the long haul. I mean, they're talking about they're talking to me about the C and the sixty three and seventy nine different exams I need to take. And they gave me some things he handed me this today. I don't know if I needed it. I mean, like I have, I have all your guides.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:42] You're like, I know everything on valuation. I'm a veteran of Wall Street Oasis now, so I can go. There are people who are listening. He just held up a huge valuation book like the Bible.
John: [00:04:51] Is that? Yeah. Mackenzie. So I think
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:59] What I'll say is, OK, so yeah, sorry, I continue. So you were saying what else? Yeah, tell me about the structure. So what? What was he saying specifically? So that's great that he's it sounds like they're want to invest in you, which is awesome.
John: [00:05:10] Yeah, I mean, like, I'll get to that in a minute. But I mean, in terms of the structure, I mean, the way that it's like a C Corp, it's holding company that owns like the broker dealer portion a hundred percent, then they have two other like C Corp or firms. I mean, one is corporate services, and they work with like the non regulated side, that kind of works more on asset sales. I mean, the broker dealer kind of works more in the capital markets framework where they deal more of like stocks, public companies, corporate finance type of deal. And then the third thing that he was talking about is a merchant bank that he kind of wants to put together. I don't know how that's going to look like. I doubt I'll help with that. I'll probably say more on the broker dealer such corporate services side. Yeah, but I mean, in terms of like what they do, I mean, like I said, like a lot of the deals that I've been helping with primarily lately have been capital raises. So I mean, as soon as I had, like got there, one of the things they had me help with was with the other VP. I mean, we put together a teaser for a pipe that they're working on, which is probably now going to turn into a type deal, which is kind of interesting. Okay. And then they just closed a pretty decently sized M&A deal in the medical space as well medical devices. It was seventy-two million. So I mean, they seem like they have things going for them. I mean, on the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:32] Buy side or the sell side on the sell side, OK?
John: [00:06:35] I don't think it's been announced yet. I was kind of looking on the internet to see, yeah, they haven't announced.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:40] You don't have to share more. It's yeah, I mean, I'm sure
John: [00:06:44] I'm sure be announced by the time it's sort of be announced by the time we have our next call.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:49] Yeah. Or, you know, this is like a three-month delay anyways on this. Okay. Okay. So you're in terms of like, say, go ahead, continue. So yeah, what do they begin to share?
John: [00:07:02] Yeah, tell me. Tell me what's going on. I mean, then specifically, it's just like, I mean, the past week has been slow because I think they've been like handling the restructuring and trying to handle like the new people coming in. So it's a lot of it's kind of been sourcing for buyers and investors for the pipe deal. A lot of Cap IQ and Pitchbook, aside from the PowerPoint stuff, I haven't really gone too much into modeling, but the guy that supposed to be industrials and consumer focus told me that I mean, deals he's bringing in. He's going to need help with modeling, so I'm pretty excited about that. And he also said he mentioned Sims and then the CEO today. When I talked to him, he said, Connect with Greg. And he said, have him send you old Sims so you can get a feel of what you like. Have you gotten those? Have you gone? I haven't gotten those yet. I mean, I sent emails out to the other three.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:53] Have you been able to do like what I said is I kind of just be vocal, even though you're right.
John: [00:07:57] Yeah, I've been super vocal. I've been vocal about like what I've wanted in terms of work and like what I'm interested in. I mean, that's how that's why he gave me this. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:07] Are they like, are they giving you stuff, though? It sounds like they are.
John: [00:08:10] Yeah, I mean, they give me stuff, but I'm kind of more afraid that like, so I mean, another thing is they work with a valuations firm that kind of push like some of their deals in the past, they've kind of pushed like valuation work to another firm. So that's what I'm kind of worried about is like if deals do come through the door, even though I have expressed interest in working on the models and the valuation work, are they going to keep pushing it off? And I do want that modeling experience.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:35] Oh, they much rather just pay you pennies. Do they do the same work? But you have to show you can do it right?
John: [00:08:42] Exactly. Yeah. So that's why I think wants to do what's the new MBA get settled in
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:47] And it depends. Are they being hired for like an actual fairness opinion? You probably can't deliver that if you're not a CPA or whatever.
John: [00:08:51] So, yeah, I don't know about that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:54] It depends the type of work they're doing. But yeah, so I mean, tell be a little bit. Yeah. So what about did they say anything about pay? Are they paying you anything?
John: [00:09:01] So yeah, it's an unpaid internship for right now. I asked him, like when we were sitting down, I kind of mentioned I was just like, So I mean, how do you see me more like fitting into the mold? He's like, We are more of a firm or like a group, that kind of. I mean, we'd bring people in to hit the ground running. We're not an educational firm, quote unquote. So we're not an educational firm. But he said we have brought in a couple of people in the past and have developed them just like the VP that just left. I mean, she I mean, she got her MD. And then after med school, she didn't like, and then she worked with the Health Care M.D. And then she got worked her way up. So, I mean, that's one instance. But in terms of pay, I mean, like, I don't know, it's one thing I want to ask you. Like, if I do continue with them, how do I approach them about that? It seems like everything they're getting is, I mean, you eat what you kill. I mean, the VP was also on a commission basis, so I don't know how to bring that up, you know?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:57] Yeah, I think it's sensitive now because you just started like you've been. How long you been working a couple of weeks with them? Yeah, maybe three to four. So tell me about financially, what's your situation looking like at home? Do you need that cash?
John: [00:10:12] Preferably that's actually another thing. Like, Yeah, I actually. So another aside from that, like another story, I have. No, this is like another story I have, like totally off topic. So like during January, February as I was like applying and different internships and stuff. I mean, part of my interest is real estate. So I decided to apply for a strategy and acquisitions internship with Caruso, which is I'm not sure if you know, Caruso is
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:41] Don't know really very well,
John: [00:10:43] A big real estate development firm in Southern California. And I mean, two weeks ago, they called me saying internships cancelled, and I was like, fine, really candy wearing like this now,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:56] Like, did you have the internship lined up like, ah, they just said, Sorry, we're not looking at people.
John: [00:11:01] No, they just said, like, Oh, you come like, we're not. And then, I mean, it was pretty like it was like three or four interviews with the firm interviewed with, I mean, obviously HR. And then she passed me on to three other people in the front, like one associate Vp of strategy and then like MD or like director of acquisitions. Right? Went through it. And then just like last week, they called me saying like, hey, like Vp of strategy calls. And she's like, Hey, like internships cancelled. But we really like, do we really like it if you'd start part time with us because we're getting really busy? Apparently, their team. Got put on the federal and state level small business recovery like task force. So I think they just need extra hands. They pay well, so I'm just picking up the part time work. A lot of it is just like research and due diligence and then working with strategy and working with the shop.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:57] 20 bucks an hour or something.
John: [00:11:58] Yeah, that's 20 bucks. 20 bucks an hour. Yeah, it's good. It's good. I mean, just for the part time work and it's not going to last.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:04] I mean, yeah, it's temporary.
John: [00:12:07] Yeah, it's temporary. So I just figured like, I mean, I have at home. I'm working part time with the I.B. right now. I can pick up more work and I mean, I can get paid to. So, yeah, yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:17] If you need the cash, totally. Just be careful that like you don't miss an opportunity with the IP. Like if a deal comes through to jump on the and stuff, because that's no, I definitely. That's good. That's just going to that's what's going to allow you to kind of level up, you know what I mean when the time? Yeah, that's priority for sure. Yeah. And like the other thing is, I guess if you're working part time, you know, getting collecting that whatever four hundred bucks a week, six hundred bucks a month to help pay for food and whatever. The other problem with it is like, you need it, but it's also really cuts into any potential like additional networking you can do for, like other boutique banks. Hmm. So it's like it's kind of like when I told you in the winter, like stop interning at like you've gotten what you needed. And so. Like, at this stage, I think all, like almost all of your time, should be spent trying to find a place that's going to be like a longer term, like a year or two, like a home. And if you feel like it's this place, this bank and you can negotiate, I'm not saying you can negotiate now, but maybe in June next month, I went on our next call, we can talk a little bit about how you would approach that conversation. Doing it so respectfully and you could even say something along the lines of like, Look, I've had to pick up some part time work with the some student loans and stuff. I don't expect a lot right now. I appreciate just the learning opportunity. But I was always curious. I know it's very much eat what you kill commission based here. I wanted to know, is there a way to either go on like a low hourly rate or just have a small join
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:55] In just with a small thing so that, you know, if I am doing a lot of work and a deal is successful, there is some payment at the end of that. Yeah. And I would of course not expect a lot from that, but just something to potentially help out financially.
John: [00:14:08] Yeah, OK. I mean, I wrote that down, and I'm sure like, once June comes, I'm sure we'll go over it in more detail.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:13] But yeah, and you might be have more options available to you to allow you to be a little bit more aggressive by June. Talk to me about that. So like so you have this part time work, you're also doing the bank work. How much? How many hours a week are you doing that? Like 10 to 10 to 20? Not that much.
John: [00:14:28] Not yeah, it's like. 15 for the bank. Yep, and the money for the part time for the release, money for the part time, yeah, it's really what it is.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:37] So you're working thirty five hours, which is a lot, but it's not like crazy.
John: [00:14:42] No, I mean, I saw a lot of free time. I feel like I can pick up more work. Yeah, right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:47] I should. Yeah, I don't even think you should. I think you should really have you. Have you been able to network at all in the past month?
John: [00:14:54] Yeah, I have more people. I wanted to get to that. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I'll get just full conversation. I mean, in terms of networking. Everything is kind of just been a wall in the road, at least with the past three weeks or since we last talked. I followed. I've been like following up like past contacts actually got back to a VP at a small boutique in L.A. today. We had a little change of emails this morning. Yeah. They put their analyst program on hold, even though I didn't actually start the interview process with them. This is like right before and I just follow it up with him. And he said we're looking for an unpaid analyst for six months starting in June. And I mean, I'm already an unpaid
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:39] Analyst for six months.
John: [00:15:40] Yeah. So I was just like, I'd like kindly declined. I was just like, you know, I'm looking for full-time slash paid work. And but
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:50] What about is that bank? Do they have good deal flow?
John: [00:15:55] I mean, looking at them, I mean, it probably be the same as right now. Yeah, yeah. Their group isn't as I mean, the group is a little larger, but
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:05] It's not a good sign when they say on Page Six.
John: [00:16:07] Yeah, as you said, it's more so for like I can read you. The exchange, too, is more so like people can get experience. I mean, that's exactly what he told me. I was just like, Well. I'm looking for this, not whatever you're offering, so I mean, I hope you didn't
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:25] Burn. I hope you didn't burn I hope you didn't burn the bridge.
John: [00:16:28] No, definitely not. I mean, at least I hope I didn't think I did. I mean, I said, like the last two emails was like, Definitely understand. I appreciate the consideration. I was like, I wish the best for you and team the future. And I love to connect sometime soon. And was like, Sounds good. It's like sounds good at position does open up. You were on our short list. I then who is like the initial point of contact that I reach out to Android speaking to you and we'll keep you in mind. So I mean, like, I mean, I get do
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:52] Anything else. Boiler room, dude, I swear.
John: [00:16:55] Well, that's some of these boiler rooms. They're like boiler rooms. Then what do you mean by that? Oh, and there's
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:00] A there's a movie called boiler Room. Just watch it and you'll die laughing.
John: [00:17:05] Okay, sounds good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:08] No, it's just the boiler rooms are like those old school like nineteen eighties like chop shops, where they're like dialing for dollars and
like, you know, getting people to buy stocks like, oh
John: [00:17:18] Gosh, sketchy. Yeah. So I mean, that's what it looks like. Oh, also, I think I mentioned like two calls ago that like I was like networking. Excuse me? Yeah.
But to start like an interview process, like an equity research group in New York City, specifically Wolfe Research, I don't know if I mentioned. Yeah. You had. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I had a like an informal interview with like the director of research there last week. And he basically just told me straight up that like, we're looking for people with experience and obviously I don't fit that mold and equity research. But he said, like six months or 12 months, I think pops up. I mean, he just says, Keep checking with me, let just get contact to have. They do have an interest in making this division, but they're like super small and then don't really focus on that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:07] Yeah, man, I wouldn't even tell you to go to equity research. I don't think it's right. I really think you have to have the right personality for it where like you enjoy the you have to get the modeling, but you like, enjoy that. You just love research. I mean, you have to love digging deep, you know, and maybe you like that? I don't know. But to me, it's just a tough, tough business to be in
John: [00:18:30] Because it's like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:32] People don't pay for it.
John: [00:18:34] Yeah. You know, make sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:37] Like a lot of people pay for anymore, there's just so much free research out there nowadays. So it's tough to be in that business. But yeah, I mean, if you really are passionate, if you were like if you had like when we first got on the call like eight months ago or whatever, and whenever we started talking, if you're like, I love research, I love that would be like, Hell, yeah, go for it because you'd be good. But if that's not like, if you're not super passionate about it, it's hard to make a be a really good analyst.
John: [00:19:04] Makes sense that sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:05] Yeah, you've got to be like looking at stocks and love analyzing stocks down to like the, yeah, nitty gritty. Just like looking
John: [00:19:14] Like, yeah, I'm looking all those little technical things. Yeah, yeah. So.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:21] I'm trying to think where yes, and what anything else do you want to tell me? That's a lot of updates.
John: [00:19:26] Yeah. What's going on? I'm just kind of been thinking about how to strategically place myself for the long run now. I mean, especially with this firm. And then I don't think the real estate internship will last like much longer if I do. I mean, take off with this like small boutique. So just think about next steps and how to approach it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:46] Any other networking going on like any other additional outreach you're doing?
John: [00:19:51] I've been, you know, reaching out during my day.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:53] I know you're following up. I know you're following up, but you're getting a lot of you're getting a much lower response rate nowadays.
Yeah.
John: [00:19:59] Yeah. I mean, people, I think, are
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:01] Well, especially in early April, it was nuts or like mid
April. I bet you as things go to the summer, things start opening up a little bit. It'll probably be. Your response is to probably start going up. I don't think you should stop that because I think. Really, you're one contact, especially with what your internship experience and especially with the fact that you're working right now for the bank. And part-time for another one, I think if you keep Networking, you may
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:35] Find the right kind of boutique that's willing to pay you a salary.
John: [00:20:39] Gotcha. Gotcha. Ok?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:40] You know what I mean, even if it's 50, even if it's forty five fifty, you know, whatever, it's something you're going to, you can rely on that paycheck every two weeks and then. They'll probably work for it, but not really that. But I don't want you, I don't want you going too long. I know last time I think I said, like, just work for free forever if you're getting the right experience. But if you're just doing like capital raises after capillaries, after capital raise. Yeah, so like right after the second or third one, if it becomes a lot of admin work, you're not developing your skill set. It's not good for you.
You can do a lot of self-study and that type of stuff, but it really would be great to get some M&A modeling valuation. Like you said, that type of stuff
John: [00:21:23] More than just worried about. I mean, think about it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:26] Yeah, more than just out of the textbook, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, great. You can read that textbook you take.
John: [00:21:32] Yeah, but actually doing it? Yeah, that's that's what I'm kind of like gearing up for, and that's what I've been asking for, at least. I mean, like every single day, I'm there, I'm there. I'm like, Hey, like,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:39] Yeah, they may not be able to give it to you because it's not how the deals right now. Yeah, I can tell you it's not busy right now. Maybe capital raising is because some businesses are struggling. There may be some restructuring work. But yeah, I think at least you're working, at least you're staying productive. You're making it like making a little bit of money and getting a little bit of experience. That's good. Yeah. Just not working. Yeah, I think. In terms of yeah, I would keep networking, I wouldn't stop that. And especially the new outreach, because like, it's tempting when now that you have to feel productive because you're busy, but like the last thing you want to do is get stuck in a place where they keep promising you the world and then they just never and they just never deliver. And like, you start getting abused because it's a reverse pyramid scheme of three direct. You know what I mean? Like, very, very soon. If, like a couple of deals, all of a sudden come in and there's nobody to help them, they could just start dumping on you. And then all of a sudden, the business dev lady that was hired, she could start dumping, you know, PowerPoint presentation stuff on you. And then all of a sudden you're working like 80 hours a week getting zero.
John: [00:22:46] Yeah. Don't want that to happen.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:48] We don't want that. And that's fine for a little bit of time for like two three weeks or even a month of doing that just to put in your stripes, show them that you're if you're doing good work. But then I would definitely have a conversation in a respectful way. Mm hmm. Sometimes even just get paid 15 bucks an hour or something, because if you're working, even if you work at 80 hours, that's a lot of money.
John: [00:23:09] So you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:11] It's a lot of money if you start working really long hours. So that's true and you can tell them all. You can just track my hours using remotely using like so you show them that you're fully transparent because if they're really penny pinchers and they're worried about where I can pay it, it's commission. Be like, Well, check all my hours. I work for 15 bucks an hour and all this. I see this just learning experience and just to pay my rent, you know, pay for my parents food. Gotcha. Like you, literally, that can be the. The line, you know, it's hard to argue with that if they were, they close the transaction, they're probably bringing in like two or three hundred k five hundred day, you know, even email. So they have overhead, they have all that other stuff they have to pay. But throwing you, throwing you a few thousand dollars probably wouldn't
John: [00:23:57] Hurt some dog bones. Yeah. Yeah, it wouldn't hurt.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:02] But you're not going to do it out of the kindness of their hearts unless you say something, you know. Yeah, just because most of these people are like they've been hustling, hustling and they're not in the business of charity.
John: [00:24:16] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:17] That makes sense, you know? So. What I'd say is just like, yeah, try to. I think you're doing the exact right thing in terms of speaking up and being vocal. Do you feel like you're getting annoying, annoying? Anybody like going too much? You feel like it's been good. What's the media? Is it all email is? Are you guys doing any Zoom calls? What's the Zoom calls primarily?
John: [00:24:38] Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's like every day to. Yeah. Who's this with? Um, I mean, like the health care, maybe once a week, once a week, we have, I mean, like a team meeting. Oh good. And then every day, every day, I'm like either connecting with the CEO or the health care and be.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:58] And they're giving you stuff to do like actual work.
John: [00:25:00] Yeah, I mean, like it's I mean, mostly it's like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:04] Research and
John: [00:25:05] Yeah, yeah, as of right now, because
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:10] There's no live deals right now. Um, there's a pitch which they're trying to put together.
John: [00:25:15] Yeah, I think so, I mean, that's good practice.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:18] That's good practice. That's what banking is a lot of times.
John: [00:25:21] Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of deal right now, which is like the pipe possible term in M&A. And then there's another deal. It's like a media deal that's also a capital raise. But I mean, at that one is robably going to hit the fan Soon. So. Yeah. Ok. So let's see. I'm yeah, I'm just giving it my best shot right now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:42] But I think that's good. I think you're at least staying busy and it's good you're picking up the additional part Time hours if you can handle it. They just may not have the right work for you.
John: [00:25:53] That's just, yeah, that's yeah, and that's kind of what I'm worried about.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:57] Do getting really fast in PowerPoint is super valuable? Mm hmm. Are you like, Are you using your mouse a lot in PowerPoint? You should be on your keyboard?
John: [00:26:04] No, no. I'm on my way on my laptop. That's the thing I don't have. Like a setup like I did like at B. Riley.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:10] But are you on your keyboard doing a lot of the alignment stuff?
John: [00:26:14] Yeah, I'm just on a Mac, though. So I mean, once I'd do a hit like a desk, you're going to
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:18] Need parallel. You're going to be you should get parallels and you should buy a PC keyboard. Have you heard of that?
John: [00:26:28] What is that? You cut
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:30] Out. It's called parallels
John: [00:26:32] Parallels. It allows
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:34] Your Mac to run like a PC
John: [00:26:37] With the same thing. What's that? It's like we can't. Yeah, I think it's the same thing.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:44] Yeah. And then well, basically, yeah, probably the same thing. And then you can buy a twenty dollar PC keyboard off Amazon. Mm hmm. Okay. And then you'll get used to using control, alt, whatever, and all the quick keys and excel and PowerPoint do. Get off a Mac. Get off the Mac keyboard. You know what I mean? Yeah, because you are going to regret if you learn on there, I'm telling you,
John: [00:27:06] Yeah, and once I do hit the desk
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:07] And it's there's some trainings that'll teach you on a Mac, and it's such a disservice because once you hit the desk. You're going to be slow again. You'll get fast and you're not. You can't use your Mac at the word. As much as I love Max, I love them. Just. And you've got to be your personal. So you need to somehow recreate that PC environment to get faster for work, so. Gotcha. Yeah, that's one of the first things I do. Go buy a 12 dollar keyboard. I think parallels, unfortunately, I think is a little expensive. One hundred and sixty bucks or something like that.
John: [00:27:42] It's called Parallels.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:43] Parallels. Yeah, I'll send you a link here. Parallels, because it runs it in parallel, I think parallels or Mac to PC. Yeah, run Windows on Mac Parallels Desktop 15 virtual machine, here it is. Yeah, parallels products. I'll send it in the link in the chat right now. Ok. Gotcha. But don't do that without buying the keyboard. There's no point.
John: [00:28:12] Yeah, yeah, no, I got you. Yeah, OK. Got it. Thank you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:16] And I've checked this before. The keyboard work like if you put in a PC keyboard and you use parallels, it actually works all the quickies and excel and all that stuff.
John: [00:28:24] Ok, cool. I mean, and in terms of like the keyboard, I have like the newer Macs, so it doesn't have like all the new plug ins. So you should. I just probably get an adapter of an adapter or you can buy us a new Bluetooth.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:36] You can buy a USB thing with additional USB ps on it. Yeah. So if you only have that one? Yeah. If the Mac only has like a couple of USB ports and you need more, there's those adapters that like turn one USB into four. Got it. Got it. That are pretty cheap.
John: [00:28:52] Right, cool. Yeah, I'll definitely get that. That's what my
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:55] Wife and I had a creative whole setup for my wife because she's working from home now, seeing patients virtually. And she has a laptop. It looks like a window. It looks like a MacBook Pro, but it's a surface, but it has like one USB. And I'm like,
John: [00:29:10] I'm like, I can use that. Yeah, it's
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:13] Like I had to connect that to like four other USB. It works. It works, Ok? But I would definitely do that and maybe even get an external monitor, cheap monitor.
John: [00:29:23] Yeah, I have been wanting to get like a setup, but it's just like, yeah, I mean expensive, and I don't think I want to buy anything just sat until, like, maybe like I move out and get my own place. I don't know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:36] I don't know. So are you done with classes, man? Did you graduate?
John: [00:29:40] No, I'm still like, We're still going. I mean, these guys are on the quarter system. So, oh,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:44] You're like into June, right?
John: [00:29:46] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:47] Oh, so that's tough. So you're still like doing classes plus this. Thirty five hours.
John: [00:29:52] Yeah, yeah. But I mean, all online classes aren't too bad, like, I don't think they're bad at all. So what do you shop in June?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:00] Mid June?
John: [00:30:01] Yeah, yeah. June, like 10th or something, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:04] Yeah. Ok. So yeah. How can I help? What are the questions, what what do you think? You nervous about like coming out and having this part time thing, if that being your.
John: [00:30:17] Yeah, yeah, definitely nervous, definitely stressed. I'm sure it'll all work out.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:23] But about your family, how what are they saying like your, your parents?
John: [00:30:26] I mean, they're supporting me. My mom's always telling me, like, you're just, I mean, you're doing everything you can. I mean, networking, working these part-time jobs, but something good will come out of it. She's hopeful. I am, too. It's just a matter. I'm just impatient. So it's hard to see through all of it right now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:42] Yeah, you kind of want to know your next.
John: [00:30:44] Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:46] It just may evolve. And it's just one of those things where if you're learning, like if you're actually developing real skills and then you get off the macmahon, yeah. Awesome. Because like, that's huge. Like, there's so much value in you being able to just use your keyboard and excel and developing that skill alone, like being able to model fast and format fast and do all this stuff. Like, if you do all that practice on the Mac and then you go to a PC when you actually have to go into an office again, which maybe in five months, but whatever when you have to do that, imagine like you can't even take all the all those hundreds of hours.
John: [00:31:20] Yeah, I'm back to square
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:21] One, not square one, but you're you're definitely slow again. Yeah, yeah. Your training muscle memory in your fingers, like your cerebellum is like being developed and all these neuro like pathways are being developed. Not kidding. It's like a sport or an instrument. It's literally like I remember walking into rothchild into the bullpen, like one of my first couple of weeks and like I was in one bullpen, I went to the other bullpen and there was this associate there, and he was at his monitor and he was like, this, Josh and I was looking at him and I was looking at the screen and looking back down at him and his fingers like I could barely see his fingers and the screen was like a spreadsheet and it was just going like, that's the whole thing was just getting like formatted beautifully and like formulas filled in. And like, he built this like. Gorgeous, beautiful spreadsheet-like financial model and like outputs and within like 30 minutes, like but like gorgeous, like perfectly formatted and like the mouse, nowhere to be seen.
John: [00:32:18] Yeah, I've definitely seen the associate, but rarely do that and it's insane. But it's like,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:23] But that's if you can get to that, that alone is super valuable. And so it's like, think of it as like playing an instrument right now. You're like, if you're like a virtuoso, you want to be a virtuoso pianist in Excel and like, you're like playing like hot cross buns right now, like hitting the keys like, you know, whatever you're like this, you're like with two fingers, you know, maybe you're a little better. Maybe you're like, Happy birthday on it or something? Yeah. Twinkle twinkle little star. But, you know, to get to the concert level pianist, there's a lot of hours of practice in drilling. Yeah, and I think people laugh at that. But like the like when you start, if and when you get a real investment banking job and they're throwing deals and pitches at you and you need to turn an 80 hour, we can do a 70 hour week. It makes a huge difference.
John: [00:33:09] Yeah, and it does save a lot of time. I've heard that and I've seen that firsthand.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:16] So literally, men like you getting super fast and excel and just understanding how to build a three statement financial model, super fast. You understanding how to do trading comparables. Precedent transactions, LBO modeling. Dcfs. Mm hmm. You know, in those basics, those foundations and then PowerPoint, on top of that, you're like, you're going to be super valuable to any boutique bank, any elite bank.
John: [00:33:42] Yeah, yeah. I'm looking at the site right now and like. The parallels and like I'm already thinking about clicking the buttons.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:51] So, yeah, I'm glad, I'm glad I sold. I sold them some additional things. There might be a cheaper one, but I think that's a good one from what I've got, so
John: [00:33:59] I'll take your word for it. I mean, I'll do some due diligence, but I'm sure this one looks already cleaner than the other one I mentioned. So, yeah, so
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:08] What else can I help you with besides trying to keep you positive? I think your mom's right. You're doing a lot of good stuff. Just don't underestimate that the continuing the networking, because you did a lot of groundwork, you know, from what was that November through March before know shit hit the fan. Yeah. And then you kind of slowed up a little bit. I mean, of course, having the right tact when you're doing it is important, but definitely don't stop that now. Definitely don't stop that now, because it definitely will. Because if things do pick up, let's say things recover faster than expected, I don't think they are things going to be pretty bad recession. You want to be. You want to be there like and ready, let's say twenty twenty-one, yeah, let's say twenty twenty-one, it's good. Exactly. There's going to be like a nice backlog, like it's just all all that's happened. It's got even more competitive for everybody.
John: [00:35:07] So some analysts got deferred for, like some banks like Wells Fargo, one of my friends, he's up in Berkeley. We interned together at Harken Company. He was supposed to be in some analysts this summer. They're not, I mean, they're not getting written off. I mean, they're paying him the whole virtual, Oh, they're not giving it, they're not giving him like the return offer. I mean, they're going to put him first in line, but to interview, but they're not.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:33] Oh, I didn't realize that most banks, most banks did a guaranteed at least the big one citi guaranteed full time offer. I didn't know this was kind of shocked.
John: [00:35:41] I was kind of shocked to hear that Wells did that. Yeah. Maybe for his team. I don't know. He's going to go to Charlotte. That's interesting to
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:50] Me. I mean, a lot of there's been a few boutique banks who didn't even like pay. Yeah, I mean, I won't name names. I won't name names on here. But you can look at the forums and see a lot of anger. I've seen one insurance. I'm sure that's going to start happening more as the dates approach and the banks can't hide anymore. They can figure out what to do.
John: [00:36:12] So you think it's going to get even? Well, I mean, I'm assuming that too. But I mean, what's the timeline? I mean, are you thinking it's going to get worse?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:17] Well, I think they're starting to open things up, but that doesn't mean there's not going to be another surge in cases like this thing is super. It seems like super contagious. So like even with social distancing, it's taken a while to flatten it. Hmm. So that's my concern is like even when you open up until there's. Harm vaccine, probably next year. Yeah, you're kind of catching go for a while, I think, which is kind of interesting, you know, looking back on this, I think I think your year in two thousand nine or eight is going to be interesting, like debate of what class had it worse.
John: [00:36:56] Oh, well, I don't know. I was still kind of young during then, like I didn't fully understand what happened.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:02] Yeah, but it's like that. It's like that. It's like.
John: [00:37:06] I can't imagine like what it was like for them or like what the job market looked like, but I mean, if unemployment keeps going up now, we might top that so.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:16] Yes, yes, you're very easily good. There was like more like fear of a global economic collapse. This is, I think, more fear of just not being able to restart fast enough before people like before. A lot of businesses go under. That was morelike the financial system being at risk. This is more just like the entire economy, like retail restaurants, all these things and like, how are you? How is that? The companies that were already leveraged. What's going to happen? J Crew just went under, yeah,
John: [00:37:48] Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. J.c. Penney about to go under two pretty.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:52] Yeah. Yeah, it's just accelerating the movement online. Mm hmm. Yeah, faster to register.
John: [00:37:59] But in terms? Was it like?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:03] Sorry, you're breaking up a little bit, what was that?
John: [00:38:05] I think the Hello. And just like in terms of like my current outlook, like post-graduation, I kind of like if anything doesn't pop up like in the next month. I mean, I just see myself continuing this boutique bank like trying to get the best experience that I can, maybe doling out six to 12 months. I have spoken to a couple of
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:25] People and you may not be able to lateral out. Let's be real. You will not be able to I mean, hopefully you can just negotiate some sort of pay with them.
John: [00:38:33] Yeah. I mean, why do you say I wouldn't be able to lateral just because like the current like this,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:38] The economy might be such shit that it's just there's such a backlog. I mean, I got to say, if you get some real deals, if you work on a few sell sides or maybe a buy-side and whatever, and then you have and then we're able to work on your resume and it has like that transaction experience and it looks good. Yeah. And we can make sure you're like, spot on interviewing. Yeah, I think we could definitely get an upgrade. I'm confident we could get an upgrade if they're paying you. Not very well, like hourly or whatever. Gotcha. Ok. But it's not. It's not a guarantee. It's not a guarantee, right? Because, yeah, know until you have that experience and that may be maybe more like a year. Mm hmm. Yeah, no. Which isn't bad if you can negotiate some sort of small amount of pay. That's OK. The thing I worry about is, are you going to get stuck there? And the pay's low and you're only doing capital raises? Mm hmm. Yeah, and it's like then all of a sudden, you're not developing your skillset, you're kind of stagnant, then I'd be like, you need to be or then they start overworking you, they start working you so many hours doing like these admin work that you end up, you end up like not even able to network well and get it out, you know, be a nasty cycle.
John: [00:39:56] Yeah. Well, that's just that sounds like a doom loop.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:00] Watch or listen to the podcast about. It's a guy from India came over, I don't know if you heard that one. He came over to get his MBA from, I think, John Hopkins thinking John Hopkins was like a big name in India, thinking that the MBA. I heard that.
John: [00:40:15] I heard that one, that guy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:16] That's a good like warning. You don't want to end up like jumping from like Horror story Boutique to a Horror Story Boutique where you're getting taken advantage of. Yeah, yeah. Eventually, that got into a good seat, but
John: [00:40:32] It sounds too fun to start
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:34] Now, and that was like a couple of years of suffering for him. Yeah, no, definitely not. That guy was working like 80 to 100 hours. Yeah, yeah. And getting paid like a joke like fifteen hundred bucks a month or something for that.
John: [00:40:50] That's tough stuff. All right. Well, hopefully not me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:54] So no, I don't think you're going to be in that spot, I think. Well, you won't be in that spot because you got me here. So we'll I'll make sure you're not stuck and
you keep pushing. I'll push you to keep pushing yourself forward. If you find yourself in a spot, that's not ideal. But yeah, I think it's going to be tough for everybody. I think at this point, it's important that you don't give up on meeting people and you just acknowledge that they don't have anything, but you still get on the phone with them. Gotcha. Okay. Still develop those relationships. So really now is when you lay that foundation of developing the relationships, it's not like, give me a job now, and no one has the job right now. Everything's canceled. It doesn't matter. Like now is when you show that, like, you truly are just looking to build a relationship, you're investing for it a year or two years down the road. Don't lay the foundation right now than a year and two years down the road. When you have those transactions and you are more attractive on paper, you're not going to have all the doors open that you need open.
John: [00:41:51] Yeah, that makes sense. Are now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:54] Yeah, I mean, you don't have the strongest alumni network to just pull you into whatever opening there is. Like telling you when there's openings, when you don't even know you have to create your own. Mm hmm. Yeah. So just here, you just keep that in mind, and I think you'll be in good shape to don't stop the networking like. Hundred a week, that's the quota one, can you do one hundred just outreach that means 10 will get back to you or 10 or 20 will accept your. Your invite and then you can send the emails and then I'll get back to you and then you have two or three calls. It's not that much a week. Yeah, I can
John: [00:42:27] Definitely do that. You know what I mean?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:29] Yeah, just one hundred you could knock out in an hour and a day the hundred and two hours. Yeah. As long as you just set a day aside per week to do that and you keep it consistent, you'll be shocked. In a year, you'll look up and be like, Oh my gosh, I know everybody. It was like, I know everybody, but you never start and you just think, Oh, let's do ten here, five there. And you know, just like, No, I have to hit this number before I'm allowed to stop. Because of the numbers game.
John: [00:42:56] Yeah, it definitely is.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:58] And so like the more people talk to, the more opportunities you're going to hear about, the more openings you have.
John: [00:43:03] Yeah, I mean, that's how I heard about this opportunity. Boutique hacker networking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:09] Yeah, it's like you're in a good spot in the sense of like you have now at least a shot at something. You have a shot at getting paid, you have a shot at seeing some deal, deal flow, getting some modeling experience, all things that you didn't have if you hadn't done this call or done that outreach. So.
John: [00:43:24] Exactly. Just pick up the phone. You weren't naive in thinking that you would just
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:29] Graduate college and the job would be handed to you.
John: [00:43:32] No, definitely not. That's not. Not not not an I.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:36] Yeah. But anyways. Anything else besides my mini-rant, I don't want to keep going on and on and on, but say,
John: [00:43:44] No, I mean, like, I'll let you know how things go the next month in terms of the type of work they give me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:52] And then let's talk about, yeah, let's talk about that negotiation in that talk before you have it, OK?
John: [00:43:56] Yeah, sounds good, I'm sure. Yeah, I think our next call is June 1st. That's perfect. And I graduate like June 10th. So I mean, that would be perfect timing. I'll probably go in the next day and talk to them about it. So. Perfect. Awesome. Awesome. All right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:09] Well, good luck, man. And hopefully the NBA season isn't canceled.
John: [00:44:14] Hopefully not.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:14] Appreciate it. I know LeBron said. You're saying it's not going to happen. I'd be really that would be sad, but let's hope you stay safe, help your family stay safe. And yeah, we'll talk for weeks.
John: [00:44:26] Sounds good. You soon.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:28] Then, thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis. And till next time.
or Want to Sign up with your social account?