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WSO Podcast | E114: Engineering to VC to Entrepreneur

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In this episode, Ryan shares his interesting path from graduating as an Engineer in rural Canada to pivoting to get his MBA from Oxford several years later. Learn why he ended up joining E&Y's transaction advisory services upon graduating and how he was able to land a hybrid job in private equity and venture capital within one year in London. We also hear why he decided to leave it all behind 5 years later for a new degree to get back to his technical roots and what his new business in data analytics, called Zenlytics is up to.

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WSO Podcast (Episode 114) Transcript:

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me as I talk to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, Ryan shares his interesting path from graduating as an engineer in rural Canada to pivoting to get his MBA from Oxford several years later. Learn why he ended up joining E! And why his transaction advisory services upon graduating. And now he was able to land a hybrid job in private equity and venture capital within one year in London. We also hear why he decided to leave it all behind five years later for a new degree to get back to his technical roots and what his new business is up to now. Enjoy. Ryan, thanks so much for joining the Wall Street Voices podcast.

Ryan: [00:01:03] Hey, thanks so much, Patrick. Good to be here.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:05] Should be awesome if you could give everybody a short summary of your bio.

Ryan: [00:01:10] Yes, am I? I'm a bit of an oddball, I think, but I'm a passionate reader, by the way. So thanks for everything you've put together. It's been such a valuable resource for my career.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:19] Thanks for the kind words.

Ryan: [00:01:21] Yeah, so my bio has been so. I graduated from engineering in my native Canada a bazillion years ago, and I spent a brief period of time there working as an engineer before I decided I want to sort of make the jump into finance, and I did that by doing an MBA. I went to go study at the University of Oxford. I guess what you'd call a triple jump into ultimately sort of venture capital and a bit of p right instead of mostly real estate private equity. And did that for many years, about just over five or six years, and ultimately decided to go back across the table again into entrepreneurship after that. So I went back and got another master's degree in computational data science and use that as a foundation for starting the business, which I now run, which is a small team of data scientists called analytic, and we are building a no code data science tool.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:18] Very cool. So how how should I think of like Zen lytic is how you say it's analytic?

Ryan: [00:02:24] That's right.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:24] Yeah, how should I think of that in terms of like competitors? Or can people learn more? Just give you a little plug com?

Ryan: [00:02:32] Yeah, that's right. So it goes, I think of us as as a an analytics tool that's capable of answering deeper questions with your data. So a lot of the tools can answer the questions really well. So things like what were my sales last quarter or like, how many users did I have yesterday? But they sort of fall flat when you start to ask the why questions, which is, you know, why did my sales go down in March of last year? Or simply, how could I increase my active users? And those are the sort of questions you go to ask a data scientist for. Usually our tool essentially automates that looks deeply at the data, checks thousands of combinations to give you all sorts of new insights. And hopefully that's sort of the why questions with your data really cool and analytical.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:14] So let's start all the way back in undergrad for you. So I'd love to hear. So was finance ever on the radar or were you like engineer all the way when you were in school?

Ryan: [00:03:26] No finance. When I was an undergrad, finance was actually a very murky prospect for myself that I always thought was really interesting. But to be honest, like I went to undergrad in engineering in like a smaller school in the middle of Canada, and it never it felt so far away to me. It didn't mean I didn't think was on the radar. So it was kind of a what if kind of scenario. And I guess I overestimated how far away it was because it wasn't crazy for just to make that transition. But it certainly was my top priority coming out of undergrad.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:59] So when you're graduating, I think around 05, you did you you joined a firm as an engineer right out of the gates. And what was that like? Did you? Did you like it? Did you not like it or was it what you expected?

Ryan: [00:04:13] No, it was fine. Yeah. So I joined a sort of a mid-sized engineering company and I was actually doing engineering building stuff, which is cool. And there's this tradition of that in finance. We're sure it was great to to actually be building real things, you know, like at the end of the day, if you did a good job, you could walk out and sort of kick that thing and you can continue what you're doing. You're like, Yeah, we built this, which is just very rewarding and very satisfying. You feel grounded. You actually feel like you're very productive. I guess the other reason I switched is because I was I was still sort of landlocked in the same place and I wanted to diversify out. And, you know, YOLO, man, you got a trial and go and try as many things as possible in this life. So I, you know, I always wanted to take a step of abstraction, which is kind of that trade off you. You lose the ability to kick the stuff, but you also get to look and see the forest from the trees as well. So I guess finance was my paradigm was I can move up and sort of start to look at the bigger picture and make sort of like, you know, more broad decisions

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:13] About so you were out, you were an engineer for about four years or almost five years. When did you start thinking about an MBA and how did you go about thinking where you wanted to go? Because, you know, going to Oxford, you went to London. Right? So going to going across across the pond, it's it's a ways. So why they are? How did you think about like what you wanted to do after, you know, going in?

Ryan: [00:05:37] No. So I guess to start with the start, I guess after about two years, I decided to make that jump and my my sort of paradigm in life has always been to try and try and do everything for two years, like if I said it to just like, you know, planned to do it, at least for a couple of years. First, you owe it to yourself to give it like a fair shake. Also, you don't want to make a real jumper and run from thing to thing, basically. So after that sort of two year period, I guess as I give it some serious thought, OK, you're going to start making the decision. And it was kind of just one of those things where once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen for you. So I slowly digested. It was about a year before I actually applied and took the mat and I pulled the necessary precursor work. The reason that I that I chose Oxford was a couple fold first because I was trying to diversify geographically. I figured the best way was to try and do it in a fairly.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:29] Is this when you come across Wall Street Oasis for the first time or no later?

Ryan: [00:06:34] I think I was probably about what I said really well, and I'm pretty sure, you know, like, I can't pinpoint the exact moment when I was reading and I had an epiphany, but I'm pretty sure that it played a role in making that transition, you know, poking around. So and sort of seeing how, you know, it's actually that was that was a long time ago, too. So there's fewer people at it. But now it does a really good job painting a picture for what life in finance is like. I think that is one of the helpful things, but Wall Street Oasis is to really understand that. Yeah. And that was still it was more of a nascent stage back then as a long time ago, man.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:08] But I don't know, man, I just saw a thread today that made me shake my head. It was like 50 million dollars in private equity by age 50. Am I crazy like this guy has a spreadsheet? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, this guy. All of his assumptions are super rosy.

Ryan: [00:07:23] Actually, it's funny. You mention that because at that point in time when I was an engineer, I was I was very I always been political, but I had a spreadsheet and it was it wasn't that 50 50 money thing, but it was just like I had taken my engineering job. And you know, this is this is about year two and I'd taken my salary out of three percent every year or whatever. And I figured out my mortgage and my taxes. You know, it was a big spreadsheet because I clicked and dragged it all the way down to like 90 or something like that. And I had this like, you know, kind of dollar precision. Oh yeah, OK, this is good. And I was like, OK, if I go down this road like I can see all these every quarter and

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:03] Every day, I'm sure you had like 20 million dollars or something crazy if you reinvested it. Yeah, yeah. Well, is it?

Ryan: [00:08:08] Yeah, something like that. I mean, there's some power of compound interest thing where I could retire at forty five and I don't think it was. I think it was actually just like single digit millions, which is again, I guess it's kind of testament to like being landlocked and like,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): 00:08:23] What did you get with your pay coming out of school? I had an engineer, the entry level engineer, like sixty thousand seventy thousand Canadian.

Ryan: [00:08:30] It was about 60 grand Canadian. Yeah, yeah, I think it was. I think it's 57000 Canadians. My first paycheck, I remember getting it. Not a bad guess, though. Like, yeah, the rest of it was to do jobs and no man. No, but I yeah, so you nailed it. And I remember getting that job and feeling like I'm rich. This is great. I'm making a ton of money. And it was, you know, it

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:53] Wasn't a ton of money, right? And especially in the middle of nowhere.

Ryan: [00:08:56] Yeah, that's right. I mean, low cost of living place and I. But no, I definitely it was enough to cover my needs. I didn't feel like I was struggling at all or anything like that,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:04] But there was something more you kind of wanted to take on a layer higher, not just for compensation, but also just thinking abstractly, not being so like concrete, concrete with everything you were doing then like having to touch everything but actually thinking theoretically.

Ryan: [00:09:19] Yeah, and I wanted excitement to like, that's the spreadsheet led me to believe I dragged it down. I said, OK, look like, All right, this is good. I'm set for this. I'll be comfortable my whole life. This is great. But I looked at it. I was just like, Huh? I was like, This looks pretty boring. Like, I don't want have this hospital. So then basically, since I made my first step change, like I threw out that spreadsheet and I realized that one change and things, you have to make a new spreadsheet every time. So it's probably not worthwhile to actually, like, expect to follow that the

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:47] Whole way you're doing it.

Ryan: [00:09:49] Yeah, that's right. And it's like, there's a whole thing about planning there.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:09:52] But then, yeah, were there other careers outside of like finance or why MBA like? Were you thinking about some banking M&A? What were you thinking of going to get your MBA?

Ryan: [00:10:05] Yes. So I when I went into my MBA. I had a few things on the radar of private equity and venture capital. We're probably the top of the list and then there's also just in consulting. So the usual stuff going into it, I had a pretty. Pretty poorly formed understanding of all going in. It's really fair. And what I found that line like, I talked to a couple of people, but it wasn't a really thorough process and I really planned to spend my time there, you know, figuring that out, answering those questions that I wanted to do,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:40] Which I wouldn't recommend to people, by the way,

Ryan: [00:10:43] Do that. The more people you can say, guys

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:10:45] That I would say, the more people that you can talk to you before to get a really good sense. I mean, at least for now, how it is now, this is what this is. I was getting the MBA at the same time. I feel like timing, especially PBC. It's super competitive. And so not having that framework going in of knowing, Oh, I need to be networked with these people like or if I don't really have those networks built out before I start the MBA, it's almost impossible. That was my personal perspective. I mean, it's not like you have to have it all figured out. I think the MBA is really nice to explore new things, but you can have a real nice leg up if you know what you want. Kind of going in. Yeah, I think it's very fair,

Ryan: [00:11:28] Ok, but actually

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:11:30] Even more so with the MSF programs like the one year degrees like you get on campus and you're recruiting for your full time job, but then like a month or two?

Ryan: [00:11:38] That's exactly I was going to say. Actually, one of the reasons that I chose Oxford was for the one year program. And, you know, the European programs are all generally a year, 15 months long. Yeah. And you know, my approach to that going in where I was kind of murky at the start, I think that might be achievable with a couple of years. And you've got a summer break between going try something. Yeah, it's definitely a lot to do with a one year program, but MSF or MBA

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:12:03] And when you got there, what was it like?

Ryan: [00:12:07] Yeah, it was. It was. It was drinking from a fire hose, for sure. Like I said, I didn't have a greater understanding of any of this stuff going into the MBA, and it was kind of like, there's that one year is like the elastic snapping up for me, catching up with everything, basically. Which was well, I mean, it was it was a really, really busy time and it was like a really there's a lot of work involved, but it was like a really exciting thing too. So it was a fantastic year.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:12:33] Did you feel like you looking back? Do you wish you were at a two year program or do you feel like it was enough to kind of get you up to speed and you don't regret kind of going there? Yeah, it's a great resource, obviously a good school. But like, would it have been better for you as without the finance background? Because I know for me and for people who had already done like investment banking, a lot of those half the courses, you're just cruising. Whereas from even an engineering background, like all of a sudden you're building financial models and you're like, I know you're technical, so you probably picked it up really fast. But it's like if you haven't lived in those programs for two years, it's different.

Ryan: [00:13:07] Yeah, for sure. I mean, so I feel like so the coursework I still found to be a piece of cake, to be honest, I feel like people over the course of the quantitative kind of background can pick up the level of quality maths for an MBA quite quickly. And it's because it's such a diverse class. You've got like people who are very, you know, rigorous mathematically review people who are not. I feel like when you've got to capture that whole spectrum of people, the people who have done the rigorous stuff before, analytically, at least you really don't have that problem. And it's a little bit you might have an interest in getting into the software.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:13:42] What was drinking from the firehose then? So the coursework academically wasn't too tough for you, but it was just was it just everything being new? Other than that?

Ryan: [00:13:50] Yeah. So to your point, I mean, there's a lot more than just the of coursework. So like, like you said, I was doing my first job applications within like four weeks of arriving, basically. And like, you know, the big three consulting firms, which are sort of my target, I was like, OK, I know I can kind of figure out like if I want to be a consultant and they're like, All right, apply now. And I was like, Really, OK? So I jumped right into who I'm writing these DNB applications and doing interviews for the first time. And at the same time, I'm also trying to do my research about what's going to happen next. And then I'm doing, you know, meeting new people and sort of like in

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:14:25] Research, sorry, why are you doing research and what's going to happen? What do you what do you mean by that?

Ryan: [00:14:29] So that's, you know, that's like I I was started applying for consulting and then but I really had to decide, well, I was learning how to do this interview. I was like a consultant.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:14:38] Did you even want to do it? Yeah. Yeah, that's very the interview, saying, I would love to be a consultant and you're thinking, like, Do I really want to do this and trying to figure out something else? Or can I do private equity or can I do? Yeah. Got it. I see.

Ryan: [00:14:49] Ok, so like you say, there's only a year you can do a lot of networking, and especially when you're doing like a triple jump like I did, it takes a lot of work, you know, just to set up that next career path, basically. So those all those things put together, combined with just MBA life and stuff, you keep very, very busy at it. And that's sort of going back to your question about one year or two years. It's a tough call and both. I'd say if you're going to do a big career jump this year is probably best because you have more time to do that. You have a summer break to do an internship in the middle. Having said that, you know, I both my master's degrees were one year programs. So in a way I had a lot of money. Bit of it you save a lot of for one year. Yeah, yeah, you save a lot of money and you save a lot of time too. It's like, you know, I get two for the price of one in a way. So yeah, that's great. But and I will say, I remember the very last day of my year at Oxford, we were having our sort of wrap up party and I was sitting there watching the sunrise after the party or whatever. And I thought to myself, You know what, if I go back to my exact same job beforehand? It's like some snap my fingers. It's just a year ago. Exact same job, exact same pay, exact same trajectory. This was still all like 100 percent worth it to have had this experience. And, you know, a year felt like a good idea at the time, but another year would be just so much great, so much fun and so much like happiness and just life satisfaction to keep experiencing this for the full two years as well. So it's a tough call, but there's merit to both. But if you can do the two, but there's nothing wrong doing the one year as well.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:21] Cool. So tell me a little bit about how things evolved. So you got there. You were kind of doing interviews. Was that like just a real struggle, I assume was a super struggle where you just drilling with your you hear other engineering buddies or gals in the blast or like, who? Who did you team up with? Like to help you, right?

Ryan: [00:16:39] Yeah, we did. We did. We said there's like the case study club and they kind of pair you off and you do practices. I'd say the real value here. So the most vital issue for that club, actually were the previous consulting analysts that had graciously volunteered to sort of help with, you know, ask these questions and everything, and they were essential, I would say it's like I could think back to those folks. And if you're starting out your MBA and you want to go to consulting, I'd find those folks early and just find some kind of angels who are willing to spend time because they really understand how it works. And you know, there's really two parts those cases, I think they get a bad rap because looking back at them now, I understand the rationale. I think they do a good job of just testing their sort of common sense approach to how, you know, they're a good test for how consultants think, you know, they're good.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:17:34] Oh, I don't think I think people are adopting them more. If anything, private equity firms are adopting them. I don't have anything against them. I think they're just tough and you have to kind of understand the structure. And if you've never done them, it's really hard to get into that.

Ryan: [00:17:47] And there's really two parts to it, right? I mean, there's one is just having a bit of a commercial sense, right, which is hard to cram in, teach for four weeks, basically. Yeah, the next part is actually sort of just sort of knowing how to answer their questions. But you can absolutely cram for with the analyst. And the third part is being able to communicate effectively and just answer stuff in a very well structured way. But you can also sort of cram for a certain extent. It's kind of halfway between, but those latter two you can you can really both improve them. Jump ahead by working for classmates.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:18:20] Yeah, that's awesome. So tell me how that all kind of evolved and then how you started looking at your options as the year went on and where you ended up coming out of school?

Ryan: [00:18:32] Yeah. So we basically drew for that fire hose. I applied for a few different roles. So I I spoke to the consulting folks. I spoke with the oil and gas folks, actually, because that was my engineering background. I did it, the oil and gas engineering, and that's what I was engineer in in Canada. And I sort of went down, you know, the idea will be the by side road, basically. So, you know, I was going for the PVC path and those involved a bunch of discussions with all sorts of people, I guess my journey. So first off. I had I had I had traction in all three of those sometimes unexpected places, I would say. Interestingly enough. The only route that I had sort of. You know, traction through the formal channels and where actually ultimately got my first job out of undergrad was in that sort of finance side of things. You know, I had a few consulting interviews and a few and Gaffney's, but it was hard to get really distinguished myself, you know, through the mass of people that are all going through those interviews, basically. And those ones didn't have any formal traction. On the flip side, those ones, I had some informal traction by meeting people at events. And, you know, the usual ways that I feel like you're probably the most effective way to do the job. So I think to this day, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:19:57] So how long did it take you to kind of get that full time offer? And what's typical like the end of the year? Did you have to wait till the end of the year where you in the spring before you kind of got that? Or most people like getting stuff locked up in the fall?

Ryan: [00:20:10] No, it was. Most people actually took longer. There's a couple that got it right in the fall, which, you know, just stress the heck out of the rest of us. Basically, obviously, like, I don't have a idea, what am I doing? What am I going to do? But the vast majority, I'd say it happened within six weeks of graduation, maybe even less, you know? So I was I was.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:31] Yeah, it was also in a tough time of the economy in the world economy.

Ryan: [00:20:36] This was also 2010. So things are kind of melting down. And yeah, it was it was a different time, but down to now as well, at least for the time being. I'll see what the future brings. But you know, some of this is still valid for the current situation. I was slightly ahead of that curve. I actually took the formal job that came through the formal channels in the end, which was Jinyoung, which was only for actually very briefly. But I took it for a few reasons. I mean, it was it was a good foothold to stay in London because was in London, but soccer and I took a job in the Transactions Due Diligence Group,

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:21:10] Which is to see that the transaction advisory services, it's a great place if you want to do some type work. Oftentimes there's people who who start there and end up transitioning to investment banking or it's a great career. But did you? So you wanted to stay in London? But why? Why not go back to Canada, U.S. You just loved it.

Ryan: [00:21:32] Yeah, I mean, so first, like I said, it's fantastic a year and I really just enjoyed integrating into British culture and I really like living there. So I really wanted to stay just from a quality like perspective. Secondly, if I was going back, I wouldn't be going back home anyways. I had one consulting offer I'm from Edmonton, Canada, which for the Oilers.

Patrick (CEO of WSO):  [00:21:52] The Oilers, it's killing me. I'm a Bruins fan. You guys crush them back when I was eight years old and 10 years old. Nineteen eighty eight Boston Garden. You know, the lights went out. You know that that game? Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, that game. I was at that game. No kidding. And then the nineteen ninety, I saw Gretzky holding the cup. I think there was Gretzky was still with you guys in nineteen, right? Yeah, I think so. I think so. Yeah, yeah, I think he left 90. He left for the Kings after. But he yeah, I saw the Oilers with the Stanley Cup and the Garden,

Ryan: [00:22:24] The old guard. That was funny.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:26] Yeah, that's yeah. That's 40 years old.

Ryan: [00:22:28] Man knows because I was a kid when that was all happening, too, and I was like, How old are you? It's funny because I was born in ninety. I was eight, so I was born. So you enjoyed it? Oh yeah, for sure. But it's funny because like I just thought the Oilers just want that's what we did. You know, like, it's like men's hockey.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:45] So they're spoiled now with all the other teams and winning championships every year, like one of them. Yeah, that's funny.

Ryan: [00:22:52] Yeah, it was invisible these days. But anyways, yeah, so I had a few offers in Calgary, which is as close as I could have come, basically. But there's no real finance industry in Edmonton. You know, if I wanted to do one of the target roles that I was looking at, then there's no way that I was going back home after that anyways. So I might as well try to do it someplace that I'm really passionate about. And it looks like a. So I studied with Ernst and Young. That was always a bit of a transition stuff for me.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:22] I think it was. You see it that way when you accepted the role. Did you think Cam would give this a fair shot? Because I know you had said earlier, like try to stick a stick in a place for two years, but is that is it something where you just like it was totally what you thought or what?

Ryan: [00:23:34] Oh, no, you know, the goal was actually to spend two years there as well, and I sort of plan, but I really wanted to get onto the buy side, part of part of the whole decision making process that led me down away from the path of sort of, you know, consulting on gas stuff was also I was looking for work for something a little bit smaller. And I know Ernst Young is a bad way to do that, and that's why I kind of figured the transitionary stuff.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:02] Yeah, but good brands is brand to have on your resume.

Ryan: [00:24:05] Yeah, yeah, good brand. And it was a smaller team within it as well, to be fair. So there only, you know, this little group is not like they're giant audit service where there's thousands of them. Yeah, yeah. Our entire operational transaction services team at the time, I don't know, 50 people tops

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:22] In London or globally.

Ryan: [00:24:24] Yeah. But there is there's only a few pockets around the world as well, so. But it felt like it had a fairly small TV. So that's one of the things that attracted
 me to it, and it also had a transition to what I believe would also be a really small team, a smaller company, which kind of mid-market by side. Go. So go to that. I said, you could a shot and I'm going to keep my ear to the ground basically for other opportunities in the actual legit buy side of things. So I did that and I wasn't really actively chasing after things. But have you been the usual networking?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:57] Have you been reading Wall Street racist? That said, if you don't have pre MBA private equity experience, it's almost impossible to make it into private equity had you heard or come across. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, it's very hard. You knew it was unlikely, but that that didn't deter you. Why didn't that deter you?

Ryan: [00:25:14] Um, well, I

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:17] Would like to do hard things,

Ryan: [00:25:19] I like to do hard things. No, it's funny.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:22] You go to network is you figure I just have to meet the right people.

Ryan: [00:25:25] You know, I'm actually pretty bad in networking too. It's I guess it's I mean. It's a quote, the great one, the great Wayne Gretzky, you miss 90 percent of the shots you don't take. So, yeah, you know, I figured I had to try and I. I will say that. I think I think my career, despite this one transition, has always been marked by having value and being unique, you know, and like this, it's and I think if it was less difficult than I anticipated, I guess, to actually make the crack into the buy side and put it that way. And you know, part of it, serendipity, it takes time is to create those opportunities and everything. Part of it is networking, but I think it's also just finding those finding the ways that make you unique and positioning yourself. And you know, it's sort of like sales people always talking about like, how do you be a good salesperson? And they think it's being this really like charismatic, you know, like smooth talk. You have an answer for everything type person. I think that the vast majority of that is just, you know, smart positioning and making those opening those opportunities up in the first place. And, you know, selling get a job is like selling yourself. So it's like it's the same thing, like you have to make sure that you position yourself uniquely and find a compelling reason for someone to buy, right?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:39] So, yes, absolutely 100 percent agree. And it's a skill you can get better at.

Ryan: [00:26:44] Yeah, but absolutely incredible skill.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:46] Did you did you? You obviously got some of that training with all the interviews you practice, you did and all that stuff. So that's really helped. But once you started it, Ian, why did you immediately you said you kept your ear to the ground, but were you like actively applying to places where you? Was it three months in? We were like, OK, I need to start ramping up or what was that like that that transition? I want to hear what your break was and how you even got your view? Or do they make it a habit of interviewing from this group?

Ryan: [00:27:18] So I was not actively applying at all. No. My approach was the great thing about you, I think is again, with the good thing about, like, you know, planning to be there for a couple of years, is it? It gave me the time to make sure I did things right as well. So it's not like I wanted. I didn't have a yeah, I didn't have a ticking clock above my head and time was on my side, which is great. And like, one of the things I was like asking myself, is this time on my side or against my side, and that really changes how you how you act. Really famous venture capitalist and Thomas just talks about that from Red Point. He talks about how he's the basketball analogy where, like, you know, if you're the leading team, you press the game, you speed it up, right? If you're if you're the better team, you try and speed it up. If you're the worst team, you try and slow it down, right? And you're trying to like, slow your advantage. So it's kind of like that and

it's time on your side or not, right? So like, I had time on my side so I could just be, you know, make sure that I found something that was actually a really great fit. And so I wasn't actively applying for stuff. I was mostly just kind of networking and meeting people.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:19] It's like using LinkedIn and stuff at this point. Was LinkedIn big or it was still pretty small.

Ryan: [00:28:23] Linkedin was smaller, but still sufficient.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:26] How are you networking? Specifically, we're using like MBA alums like How are you? How are you doing that?

Ryan: [00:28:33] Yeah, mostly friends, alums and sort of second degrees. And like everything else. It was I was just, you know, the pretense that I was in a new city to sort of like leverage that and just sort of saying hi to people. People were people were, and I think, still continue to be generally pretty open to have chats like that. So I feel like a lot of chats like that now,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:55] Like the first six months, let's say, at your NY position, how many people did you like have an informational chat with and tell me, like, how did you go about it? Was it more just a curiosity thing learning what they do day to day? Was it purely informational or do you drop any sort of hints that you are interested in what they did? I think this is really important because getting that subtlety and that nuance is really important. And I love for the listeners to kind of get a perspective of how you you. Kind of played with that, not to not to seem like you're too pushy or whatnot. Yeah, for sure. If they were friends, especially, they were friends and connections from friends, I don't, you know, it can be a little more touchy. That makes sense.

Ryan: [00:29:36] Yeah, for sure. And there's an adage in the VC world that you hear today, even if you're an entrepreneur and you want to raise around, ask for advice. If you want advice, ask for a round, right? So if you want to find money, ask for advice. If you want advice, ask for money. Yeah, and I think that's true when you're when you're job hunting as well. You know, jumping in and just ask, are you hungry? Can I get a job? It's just kind of principle off. It seems a little bit disingenuous and it seems a little bit like desperate. And so I would wholeheartedly recommend just approaching people asking for advice and tips and understanding what they do day to day and things like that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:15] Were you genuinely interested in what they were doing day to day?

Ryan: [00:30:18] Yeah, for sure. Definitely. A 12 month fire hose was there's still, you know, a lot of water, this sort of that hose. Yeah, there's a lot that I didn't know. And it was also, you know, there's certain like regional influences and how they do. Venture capital London is a little different than how they do it in the valley, which is different from New York. So like just going and having those conversations, it gave me a ton of insight. And it also helped me once what sort of talk to people to answer your question? I try and have like a few coffees a week, sort of on a rolling basis to three coffees just when I have a chance. It's nice to give you a feel for the ebb and flow of how the market that you're operating in works and you get a better understanding of, you know, what's  basically happening, like where people are hiring and if there's new funds coming in the horizon, if there's people raised, if there's activities happening. So once you get your finger on that pulse, you get a much better sort of sense. And I imagine sitting from your position, you probably had your finger on that pulse of many industries. So I think you know what I'm talking about, but people are kind

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:18] Of no more than I do. I can tell you that they're like, What is your take on this private equity recruiting? And I'm always laughing because I get reporters contacting me all the time saying, what is going to happen with private security now with COVID and work from home? I'm like, I don't know, it's going to go even earlier because they can just it's going to be remote anyway. So they're going to go in August. I'm on the record now to podcast and things going on, just like

Ryan: [00:31:43] Your first folks. Anyways, yeah, it was a couple of weeks in very casual, just talking about, you know, how they do the job and how they make decisions and what they like and what they don't like. And I never really explicitly pushed

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:56] People, you know, private equity professionals. Or were you targeting that specifically or were you just meeting a whole bunch of folks?

Ryan: [00:32:03] I was targeting VC. And so I was, you know, I was meeting others occasionally, but those would be the bulk. I would say, you know, folks in those two sort of beside professions

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:15] And on the VC side, I presume you were playing up your engineering hang a little bit or tech angle. How did you when they asked you like, Oh, give me your spiel?

Ryan: [00:32:26] Yeah. Well, one of the yeah, one of the reasons why I chose B C was, I mean, I felt this a really, really interesting field for startups. So I like b c a lot, which you can get into y b c later. But I yeah, that just plays back to, you know, being unique, you know, play to your play, to your strengths. And as an aspiring B C, being fully technical has always been really, really helpful. And you know, I were going in with ideas for how to ramp up their dev ops, basically, which is like, Oh, yeah, like you guys. So basically, everybody has like these, this no code solution where they sort of brood together a bunch of pipelines in a CRM for it's kind of, you know, the hack together a way to manage their deal flow. And so a lot of those chats I tried, I value every chat and I'd give them tips on, Oh yeah, so you could take that thing. And if you added this little Action Script data, you could actually automate this part and then you could prioritize these. And I sort of bolt on to their systems and add some sort of

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:26] Where they're like, Hey, can you come in and do that for us trying to get you to come do it for them?

Ryan: [00:33:31] Yeah, I mean, I did it with the fund that I went up working for. So I was one of the reasons I guess I made that jump. But yeah, so like people, yeah,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:37] Tell me your breaks. Let's that's a good transition. Tell me, like, what was the break? So you ended up meeting a professional at this P fund and looking at your LinkedIn. It looks like you were doing kind of both P and VC almost at the same time or like, what was that about? Yeah.

Ryan: [00:33:51] Yeah. So this is a phone call, AGC, they're a great group and they they're. They're sort of, you know, midsized private equity firm.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:02] When you say you remember the assets under management around, they're managing.

Ryan: [00:34:07] Yeah, yeah. So they when I joined, it was it was probably. So now I believe it's up in the website. So I can say I think it's last. Last I checked, it was north of five billion.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:24] So maybe one or two billion when you join or something like that.

Ryan: [00:34:27] So it was it was close to a quarter of that or so when I joined, it was something it was really much more. So I was I was cool. It was a relatively new fund. You know, I was I was there with roughly the first 10 people or so, and, you know, they grew that a lot over the time that I was there and they could have a lot, a lot of the time that I was there. So it was a good experience because it was growing. But it was also a great break because they were relatively new to start out. So they, you know, just understanding my finger on the pulse and seeing where things were. I knew this new fund system, you know, ended up getting a bunch of introductions to one of the sort of founding partners that fund, basically. And I had I had a couple of ways in which I think was impressive. I had a couple of friends sort of put me in touch,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:12] Meaning you had multiple references from several friends,

Ryan: [00:35:14] Multiple references, which is always a powerful thing. And even to this day, if I get introductions to someone from two different people, I'm like, OK.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:22] So I had that. Why did you take me seriously? Just Ryan: [00:35:27] Oh yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:30] No, just kidding.

Ryan: [00:35:31] It is an amazing read. I love wsf. Thank you. It's been invaluable. All this is, you know, this whole journey has been guided, you know, reading.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:38] So we'll take all the credit. I love it. Yeah, we'll take all the credit. I said, So OK, so you're getting kind of a multiple intros to this partner who's they've already raised one or are they in the fundraising process?

Ryan: [00:35:50] They have fund one raised. They're already investing, but they're very early on in that investing. Like the first fund, basically.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:57] Very cool. And so tell me how you I assume you went in like adding trying to add value right away?

Ryan: [00:36:04] Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, you know, the engineering spiel and I. And I really just had we had a great connection, too, so like this is, like I said as being very optimistic and waiting for someone who I thought would be great to work for in some sort of fund. That was a good fit. And you know, I even at the time, I always believed that being in a rapidly growing place is generally great for a career, right? Which is one of the reasons why I like small companies because they can grow rapidly like that, it's really hard to grow when you're 30000 people going to thirty one thousand. Yeah. You know, so like they ticked all the boxes and the work is interesting because it actually had both private equity and venture capital like they were private equity fund. This partner that I spoke with, he managed the venture capital fund. So I had a chance to do sort of both sides of that equation, which is cool. I spent more a lot more time with the venture capital side of things. But how did you

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:54] Even get into the process? Did they have any sort of like interview process where you were? You prepared with all the MBAs? Did they even interview or are they trying to get kids out of banking? Tell me how that one.

Ryan: [00:37:06] Yeah. So the and so at the time they we set it off and they had a need for one internship. And I guess a few things happened. I mean, first and first, I think I ended up being already having conversations when they started launching that internship, so like I was early in the process. I have actually spoke to a handful of people, but it was not your typical, you know, middle ground interview 500, second interview 250 and like, pick one kind of thing. So it was, you know, definitely the smaller applicant pool as well. Mm hmm.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:43] But it's an internship. Is this a paid internship? And did you have to quit in order to take the internship?

Ryan: [00:37:49] Yeah, it was. It was a barely paid internship and it was. It was a paid internship. But you know, it was it was not a long term, sustainable solution for sure, and there was nothing guaranteed at the other side of that internship as well. So I was giving up my hundred million

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:06] One hundred thousand

Ryan: [00:38:06] Job, whatever. That's right, a hundred thousand or something like that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:11] Yeah, something around there or something like that or a job for only a three month stint paying you a couple of thousand pounds a month or something.

Ryan: [00:38:18] Yeah, that's right. And exactly. And you know, I wasn't doing it for the money, but I was thinking long term and it was kind of a bold move. Yeah, I. I know what I sort of leaned out to my family members for advice. Some of them kind of like, I don't know, Ryan like this is risky. I thought, Yeah, I guess it's risky, but it seems like a good shot. And looking back, I feel like that was actually a really, really valuable tool to make that transition. And. I'm a big believer there.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:49] What was it valuable to the internship itself?

Ryan: [00:38:52] Yeah. Is the structure of doing the internship, I think is actually really, really helpful for both sides. I mean, it was great for me because it let me really feel out the company and get a good sense for what I've been doing and, you know, be very methodical and figure that out. It was great for the company for the same reasons as well as like, you know, you can sort of like get a feel for the candidate. And then there's sort of like, you know, local environment. It's not you don't feel pressured to try and fit a square peg in a round hole if there isn't a fit.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:20] But you had already had conversations with the partner here. And so when you kind of came in and put your hat in the ring? Tell me, like how you communicated that? Was he like, what are you doing? Why would you leave your position for an internship with us? Did he warn you at all? Because I would be a little bit uncomfortable having known you and talk to you and trying to give you advice if you were like, Actually, and I'm going to quit my job, that's paying me really well to come intern for you almost with like almost expectation on me to take you full time. So how did you know?

Ryan: [00:39:51] He clarified that for sure and is like, you know, we don't know we're doing. This is supposed to be six months and like after that, we don't know what's going to happen afterwards. So he was upfront about it, and I accepted that risk as well. It was a unique opportunity, right? Like, like you say, it's difficult to crack it in general. I was again sort of like ethnic background, and this is a company that I really wanted to work for. So I was like, you know what? You know, people kind of said, you know, are you sure you want to do this? But there's never really any doubt in my mind. It, just my gut said it was the right move, so I just jumped it and went for it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:21] And so what was the scenario? You go six months. You don't. They say no, like five. They said, hey, you better start looking kind of thing and then you're kind of back in the job market, OK?

Ryan: [00:40:31] Yeah. Back in the job market, I probably could've gone back to you. Why? If I wanted to? Yeah. Ok. You know, but

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:38] That didn't look a lot. You were there for five years,

Ryan: [00:40:42] There for five years, and

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:44] Things evolved from intern all the way up to principal or VP, whoever you want to call it. Tell me how things evolved. And yeah, I'd love to just hear what it was like day to day. Anything you can share with the audience would be great, especially coming from like the engineering background now with the MBA. Any of the stuff you learned? Was it applicable at all? Or was it just like fire hose again and you learned a lot on the job?

Ryan: [00:41:08] Yeah, it was. It was a fantastic experience there. Great fund. And honestly, there's a good chance that still be working there today if I hadn't moved to New York, but the. The experience was again drinking from a fire hose in a different way, and this this way it was there was. There is a clear outset, so I knew where to look, and I'd sort of, you know, it was it was guided fire hose this time at least. So it was a little more understanding about what I was trying to do with it. You know, before you took the photos and you're like, you know, you learn about the case that you're like, All right, if I'm, you know, am I going to be a consultant? So if that's the case, I guess I should remember this stuff, and I might not even end up using it at the end. But I should probably remember just in case. So now when you have that purpose, it actually gets a lot more streamlined, a lot easier. Yeah, and it was it was. It was busy for several reasons. Again, because I was making that sort of jump into PVC was sort of just new workflows for me and new approaches. Also, they were really fast growing firm, so we were all hands on deck, just, you know, having that success basically.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:21] So they were you doing a lot like when you as the internship and then did they give you an associate role? What was the title after internship? And so when did you hear that you are going to be staying on and getting a full time off

Ryan: [00:42:36] From playing the game?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:37] It was fairly late, you said.

Ryan: [00:42:40] Yeah, yeah, it was funny. They hadn't officially announced it and they're kind of there. I remember the discussion, actually. It was like I was supposed to finish up at Christmas time, and it was probably. It was it was probably sometime in November, late November, maybe early December. And I was I was talking to my boss and he's kind of like, so when are you leaving for the holidays? And I was kind of like, you know, probably the whatever 17th and I'm going to take off then. And he was like, OK, and when do you want to be back? And I was like, we haven't talked about this. And I was like, you know, I'm probably not going to be bad, like, I'm not coming back again. I thought, we're done. And he's like, well, assuming we can work everything out one, would you be coming back? And I was like, I don't know, January 2nd. It's like, OK. And like, at that point in time, I was like, OK, it's not going to keep you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:29] You didn't even know until December. Why didn't you push? Why didn't you push? You didn't feel like you didn't want to like you didn't feel like you had the place to do that as an MBA? I'm surprised you didn't force the issue earlier.

Ryan: [00:43:42] I could have forced the issue. I, you know, I was I was happy to spend the whole time doing the internship again. It was a little bit like that last day of the MBA. If this was my

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:50] To, if I go back, it's just not worth it.

Ryan: [00:43:52] This has been a great experience. Would you recommend

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:56] Not pushing there? Because what happens if he had said, Yep, OK, you're done, good luck. Then you would have been in the holidays starting a new year with no job. And OK,

Ryan: [00:44:05] Yeah, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:06] I didn't like to do that. Like, what about rent?

Ryan: [00:44:10] Yeah. I mean, I don't have saved up that I wasn't going to be starving in January either way, but like I. I mean, I guess. I hoped that they were going to do it, I obviously, apart from continuing those conversations well as an intern and still talking to people I didn't have like a huge amount of leverage to push it, to be honest. It's not like I could do it now. So. But you know, I did it diplomatically and tactically as I could have those sort of, you know, sort of nudge in the direction. I couldn't get some sort of understanding like that, but they didn't confirm it until fairly late.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:46] You were nudging a little bit. You were kind of like, hey, how are things going? Can we get a review kind of thing?

Ryan: [00:44:51] You know, things like that, OK? You know, collecting, collecting feedback.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:54] And I'm surprised you didn't they left you hanging that long? That's kind of mean.

Ryan: [00:45:00] Yeah. You know, to be fair, I kind of, you know, it was a great experience and just the sense you had to stop because you were improving the feedback to get a sense that we had a great fit. We were doing really interesting things, working well together and achieving a lot. So I had a good sense it was going to work out in the end.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:19] So I don't have you too much longer to tell me how things tell me how things kind of progress. So you associate or what's what senior associate? What's the title they gave you? And then do you mind telling me like? Why you ended up leaving, it looks like a move to New York and specifically. Yeah, maybe quickly touch on your time at McKinsey for a little bit and then we'll go fast.

Ryan: [00:45:42] Go OK. Yeah, sure. But that's experience great fund would probably still be there. I made the jump, set it up as associate kind of worked my way through and left is sort of like kind of like a mid-level person, V.P. principle type person. The work evolved, as you'd expect, started off supporting deals, you know, running and charts. But in the analysis, yeah, doing, doing, doing the base of work and then ultimately sort of leading deals, taking board seats and spending a lot of time with the company's operational improvement

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:21] So that more than the deals

Ryan: [00:46:24] I enjoyed both, to be honest, the deals are the deals are nice because they're a well-structured process, because there's value in that, you know, it's actually they're a little messy, but they're cleaner than trying to build a startup, for sure. For sure. But then it's more rewarding to actually do the building as well, you know, it's growing the pie instead of like slice of the pie, and so it is nice to actually work and get your hands again. You can almost kick those things once again. So it's nice that you can kick. So. Yes, I did that, the reason that I made the jump out of this period was because I moved to New York mostly to be with my wife, actually. So it was a there's always there was a girl. So and she wanted to move to New York. So I said, yeah, we'll go to New York. Let's do that. And this fund is a London based funds that don't operate in New York. And had you came across?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:11] Did you get married in London?

Ryan: [00:47:13] Yeah, yeah, actually.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:14] Mba class from the MBA, from the MBA. So you ended up getting married in London and then but she wanted to go to New York. Is she from New York?

Ryan: [00:47:25] No, she's from Japan, actually. But she she's an entrepreneur herself, and her latest business was an online dating business in New York. Is a good place to build an online business. Let's move to New York, and I like New York a lot, so I said, you know, let's make the jump. Sure. Ok. And yes, I went there and that the jump to New York is actually a long story short. I use that as a chance to cross the table, which is the number one piece of advice that I give to every aspiring venture capitalist. You know, I used to run little sessions back at Oxford when we do the, you know, do you want to be VC? And the first thing I always do is ask everyone's questions like, OK, so how do you feel about a VC in every hand would shoot up? So how do you feel you're going to be an entrepreneur and like sort of half of them would go down? And my message should always be to end up like, listen, like B.S. in entrepreneurship are sort of two sides of the same coin. So if you don't want to be one, you shouldn't be the other, you should probably be interested in both. And in fact, being a there's this crisscross if you want to be a senior VC, you probably start isn't going to be a senior engineer. You should start as a VC. So I mean, I live by that ethos as well, and I've always wanted to start my own thing, do so. I use that as a chance across the table. And I said, you know, I've learned a lot in finance. I've learned a lot about how venture works, how it works. But now I'm going to go and do it myself. And that was part of a long transition where I did it pretty methodically, where I went back to school, got back to my technical roots, use that that experience is really built to help find fantastic co-founding team which worked beyond my wildest dreams by founding team. My company just

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:55] Fantastic. So you were just perfect for the listeners you were at. You got a master's in science from computational data science from Harvard, right? That's right. So in the move, kind of stateside, were you doing that? Was there like a campus in London? You had already moved? Did you move to Boston for that? How did that work?

Ryan: [00:49:14] I was living in New York, but I went to Boston for the week, so I was commuting and back in the weekends.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:19] Got it. Ok, so you did that for a while and then you had already kind of moved though, right? You already you are at McKinsey for like 10 months or something doing.

Ryan: [00:49:29] Yeah, yeah. There was a brief interlude there as well, where it was actually always intended to be a short term project. It's supposed to be a few months. We extended it out, but just for something that interests sake. And you know, I've always thought Mike is a great organization. So I was I was helping to build out their new fast growth tech team.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:47] Awesome. So tell me a little bit about when this idea formed. Was it while you're getting the degree, the computational or the data science degree?

Ryan: [00:49:55] Yeah, the dataset. So like, we had a few a few ideas, and I sort of like a rough shape of how I wanted to sort of redefine analytics. When we when we started, we started midway through the data science degree. And so we're double team the the finish in the master's as well as studying his analytic. We actually studied a bit of unusual way, which is we spent a good amount of time at the start doing straight up services, data science consulting and we were we were consulting data scientists. We did that for a couple of reasons for us to get to sort of bootstrap the pre-seed funding, which is great, and then also to really understand where the problems are in the marketplace and how I understand how companies use the data, understand the opportunities and the gaps and how they're not using it. Data their data very specifically. And that worked swimmingly. You know, dozens of companies of all sizes, from startups to Fortune five hundreds and really understood the sort of overwhelming problem where we have more data than ever before.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:52] How did you get those? How did you get those consulting gigs while you were still in school where you is just through again through networking? Was it your co-founder bringing most of that or was it you?

Ryan: [00:51:02] I'm the I'm the senior person on the team with the biggest social network, so I was doing most of the sales work and it was it was a bit of a combination of own networks plus, you know, professional consulting networks, plus

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:20] A little of generation. What your engagements where they like two thousand to like twenty thousand dollars type engagements or like how?

Ryan: [00:51:29] But more than that, usually we'd great. We did a couple of really small start, but you know, our I'd say they generally started at maybe 50 grand and went up from there. Yeah. And it was generally, I'd say, like six figure mark. So.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:45] And you knew basically like the type of you knew you could bring a lot of value to these companies. You had a lot of data. So it was an easy kind of sell for you guys.

Ryan: [00:51:54] Yeah. Again, and this is going back to the point of positioning and why it's important to be well positioned is when you're when you're a team of expert data scientists, that is just a very scarce commodity these days. So the sales process was fairly straightforward. People, every company in the world right now wants to add more analytical rigor. They want to add machine learning and artificial intelligence to their businesses, and they lack the capabilities. Most of them lack of the capabilities to do so. So, yeah, it was. It was a fairly straightforward sales process. People are generally quite enthusiastic and it was good because we spent most of our time actually delivering instead of selling, which just helps speed that flywheel up to building's athletic, for sure.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:31] Yeah. And I assume then that it was almost like, you're taking all the learnings you're getting from those initial clients and trying to build the software around it to make it more scalable. Is that the idea like in terms of the business model, like eventually like you want to be able to take the data, plug it into the system, help them answer a lot of interesting questions faster. So you guys aren't doing all manually?

Ryan: [00:52:51] Yeah, that's right. But basically the goal is to automate ourselves, and we've actually we've ramped down the consulting two percent. We're just now deploying the product in the real world. But yeah, so it's like it's

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:02] Sounds like it's great. Or have you have you raised? Any rounds?

Ryan: [00:53:08] No. So one of the goals that I that I had as a venture capitalist was to put off VC funding as long as possible, which I think is a good adage for every business. I think a lot of people raised for the wrong reasons. I wouldn't raise venture to build a product. For example, I'd raise venture to scale a product.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:24] Yeah. Don't you feel like you're there?

Ryan: [00:53:26] Your what? Watch this! Watch this space.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:29] Watch this space.

Ryan: [00:53:30] Let's watch this space where we haven't fundraised anything yet, but we'll watch the space.

Speaker1: [00:53:36] Got it! Fair. Ok, well, anything else before your story is super interesting? Anything you want to share for the younger listeners out there that may kind of want to follow in your footsteps or are curious about your path, anything like looking back that you would have changed or anything? Foundationally, you want to share?

Ryan: [00:53:55] Let's see. There's a few. Before we start a discussion, there's a few things that came to mind that I wrote down said, we should talk about this that haven't come up.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:04] How would your when your work today getting into PC, when you don't have a banking background overlap between financial analysis and data science skill sets? Yeah.

Ryan: [00:54:14] Yeah, that one, that's a whole new kettle of fish to get to skip that one. So I would say first thing is if I were aspiring to get into the buy side today, especially with PC, no place to start a community. And you know, you hear these stories of appeal that start the know the five minute podcast or whatever it is, the various people that are that are building communities of people to discuss, you know, venture and tech opportunities that could be whatever. I think that would be the first way to do it, sort that podcast. I would say the one really interesting thing is I've been really fortunate in my transition. But when I look back, I'm overwhelmingly struck with a sense of everyone in business school is so like focused on how to get a job. They don't ask themselves, am I going to be good at the job in the first place, you know? Yeah. And it's and it's like. You know, it's getting there is one thing, but if you're going to be like the 30th percentile investment banker or whatever, like, that's. Don't get that job. You know, it's like I take you anywhere. So I think a big part of that is asking the right questions as well. And then if you do decide that you're going to, how do you

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:25] Know, how do you know if you're going to be good at it or not? Just really look at the senior level and what you need the skill set, you need to be honest with yourself. Or is there other ways?

Ryan: [00:55:34] Yeah, I mean, it's worth having those conversations. And I know actually a lot of people, I can't really speak to bank them because I've never been a banker. But I remember some of my friends had those conversations with bankers and, you know, senior bankers very successful. And they said, you know, I wouldn't recommend getting into this business unless you're a certain type of person, the type of person. And for most people and a lot of them to be like, I said, for most people, including me, I don't know if it was worth it. You know, like this approach. And looking back, I don't think this is the right path. So like speaking to people, this is especially why it's good to have that advice and it's good to talk candidly because then you can get a good sense for it. How can this job and if you excel at it and a lot of those are sort of. No hand in hand happen together, so anyway, if you do and if you

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:21] Base level of intellect, yes,

Ryan: [00:56:23] That's right. Yeah. And then if you do decide you want the job, I think the name of the game nowadays more than ever is the number of applicants for every role increases its be unique, you know, emphasize what makes you unique. Now that I've been in the seat where I'm hiring a lot of people, you know you. I know exactly what it feels like to get a big stack of resumes that are all really exceptional, really, really strong candidates. But they all kind of look the same. And quite often, you know, the one that sort of stands out is the one that has a slightly different skill set that can add value in a unique way. So the most powerful way to position yourself is quite often intersection of two things I think is always a great way to do it. You know, you're good at both finance and technology or whatever, but you know, have a have a civil positioning that's unique and makes you stand out from the crowd.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:13] That's great. I love it. Ryan, thanks so much for taking the time to join the podcast.

Ryan: [00:57:19] Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me. It's been great chat. And let me reiterate that I am just an absolute disciple of all. I've always, always loved it. It's been a valuable resource for my entire career. So thanks so much for doing what you're doing.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:31] Appreciate it and say your say your startup. One more time

Ryan: [00:57:34] Is analytics, politico.com, no code, data science,

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:37] No good data science. Check it out and thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com and till next time.

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