WSO Podcast | E137: This Cheat Code Landed Him in IB and PE from a Non-Target
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In this episode, ColoradoMonkey shares his path from a non-target undergraduate state school to an investment banking role at a top bank. We learn how he was able to suddenly unlock ten interviews AFTER striking out on his last superday early in his junior year.... as well as how he was able to take a similar mindset to help him land in private equity less than 2 years later.
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WSO Podcast (Episode 137) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me as I talk to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, ColoradoMonkey shares his path from a non-target undergraduate state school to an investment banking role at a top bank. We learn how he was able to suddenly unlock 10 interviews after striking out on his last Super Day early in his junior year, as well as how we was able to take a similar mindset to help him land in private equity. Less than two years later, this is a long one, but it's also a real fun one. Hope you guys enjoy. Ok, Colorado monkey, thanks so much for doing this.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:00:58] Yeah, no problem, thanks for having me
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:59] And for sitting through all the technical little difficulties we made it, we made it. We've started. So yeah, give the listeners a short summary of your bio. That'd be great.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:01:08] Yeah, absolutely. Originally from Denver, Colorado State and state for school, I wanted to be close to home, but was far enough away from the parents that made sense. Went in on target school based a little bit of hurdles, trying to get into banking wasn't really sure what I wanted to do when I first started in college. But just through people that I knew and who some fraternity friends and meeting a couple of people along the way realize that banking was kind of what interested me and
can dive into that a little bit more as well. And then from there I joined a middle market bank. After I graduated, I interned there as a junior, joined them full time, spent two years in one of their coverage groups and industry groups. And now I'm an associate in private equity at a marketing firm.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:54] Awesome. So let's start all way back in undergrad. So you said you went to non-target kind of Colorado. Tell me a little bit about just when you first you said things to fraternity for somebody when like, was there a specific person or specific time when you were like, Oh, investment banking is interesting to me? And what year was that? Was that freshman year sophomore junior? Were you late to the game?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:02:14] Were you early? Sure, so I think I was I was definitely early, got very lucky, so the school that I went to had relatively no presence on Wall Street, no presence in New York, very little presence in finance in general. So I kind of got lucky in that one of my friends had an older brother who had worked at Goldman Sachs, spoke to him about his summer internship. And it just him telling me about
what he did was kind of interesting to me. I really didn't know what I wanted to do in the first place. I never heard of investment banking before, or at least I had heard of it, but had no idea what it really was. Mm hmm. And that was like, I guess, my very early introduction and then when I did. What is your what are your parents do or my father's doctor? Yeah, my father's a doctor, radiologist, and my mom just stayed at home and raised the kids. So I really had no family members to help me figure out the path. Wall Street Oasis actually was probably my best guide. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, like it really was as I navigated the process, especially early on. So just him knowing him initially was my spark of my very first start to learning about what banking
ColoradoMonkey: [00:03:28] Was. And then from there I started to really make an effort. And I mean, as a non-target individual trying to get into banking, it's tough,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:36] As I'm sure. How did you how did you even know to talk to the older brother? Like it was just random thing? It was a good friend of yours from school and his. And how did how did the older brother get in? Was he had a target or something?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:03:47] So he so he wants the same school as me, he was three years older, I was a freshman, he was a senior at the time, so he had just finished off his summer internship, his junior year. He was in my fraternity and he was kind of. And he was almost revered, I think in a way, by many of us, just because, like he was the guy that made it to New York that made it to Goldman. And, you know, like we all kind of idolized when he was a great guy, too. On top of that. So just hearing his stories because he was such an interesting guy to us. He seemed so unique. That was just kind of I kind of fell into it. I guess it was a little bit lucky. I know me talking to him wasn't intended to have any sort of direction or influence in my life. But I mean, if it wasn't for him, I don't know if we'd be talking today.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:33] Was he trying to kind of mentor people? Did he want to give back to the to the fraud and kind of came and talk to you guys like as if general or were you getting a one on one time for some reason? Yeah, I think
ColoradoMonkey: [00:04:44] The thing maybe a bit of both. I don't think he was trying to be a mentor, but I think he was happy to do it when he saw the initiative from. I mean, Just talking to my first time, it was just it was a very casual conversation. And then like as things start to develop over the next couple of months because I was I was a sophomore at the time when all of this start to happen. And by the end of my sophomore year, I was like, I need to do investment banking. This is what I want to do. I want to get out of Colorado and I love Colorado. But like, I need to get out for a couple of years. I need to come to New York. But yeah, so it was early on and I think just by me showing that initiative from the get go early on in my sophomore year, he knew I had a chance that I wasn't like some somebody from in the middle of his senior year trying to be like, Hey, I think I want to do investment banking at that point. Unfortunately for most people, when they do that, the doors are already closed.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:32] Yeah, no, I mean, for sure. So tell me a little bit about kind of how you went about. Kind of prepping yourself sort of like freshman year, you kind of got introduced by sophomore year, you're like, OK, this is what I want to do. You probably when you came across Wall Street races, I'm guessing or around that. Then you're like, and you're then probably opened your eyes and you're saying, Oh, like, I'm behind the eight ball already because I'm not at the right school or whatever. But what's your thought process in terms of how you approach it? I mean, you're an accounting finance major. That's smart, right? That makes sense.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:06:00] I mean, I have had the very base level background, the
finance, my GPA was fine. I had a three six three seven, but like nothing like, wow, this kid kid's incredibly smart, just very run of the mill. But I knew I had to try and find a way to differentiate myself in a positive way, not being a non target, but trying to find another positive way to actually come across on paper as an attractive applicant. So I looked for internships in private equity and banking regionally and locally. But at the end of my sophomore year, just hoping that someone would be like, Yeah, you can join us on paid whatever, just something to put on my resume. I didn't find much luck in Colorado, didn't find much luck in neighbouring mountain West states either, but got very lucky in that in the end, I had a very close friend whose dad had a connection in Australia at a very small private equity firm, and I got an intern there for about two months. Learned pretty much nothing, but it was just a good experience to have. I mean, I was so young I didn't really know what I was doing, But it was an incredible experience to be in Australia. But be having that Australia private equity kind of stamp on your resume that I think allowed me to at least reach out to people and not come across just some other normal, standard non-target student. But I found a way to kind of find my niche, but a way To seem a little Bit more interesting and trying to get people to talk to me because a lot of my process in my junior year after I got that internship, when I came back the following year, my entire process was dictated by old cold, cold calls and cold emails.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:40] Talk to me about that internship. I know you didn't learn much, you said, but like you had to go all the way to Australia. Why not? Why were you only looking like initially and in the local area? Why weren't you looking for like internships? And just because like New York or the West Coast or something like
ColoradoMonkey: : [00:07:54] That, I tried. I mean, New York. Yeah, I mean, New York was my first call. So I mean, remember, I'm a sophomore.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:01] I don't have. The sophomore is almost impossible non-target, like exactly like
ColoradoMonkey: [00:08:05] Going on target. No connections in finance whatsoever. Like Father's a doctor don't have like extended family members in the industry. So like, really like cannot have any more of a disadvantage, I think, at least as a sophomore. Mm hmm. And, you know, try New York. I tried the West Coast or tried Texas, tried Chicago, like all your Maine and like second tier investment banking, hot spots then have any luck. And that's like when I tried to go regional and let a lot of the banks and
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:33] How are you doing that outreach initially like
that? Were you doing LinkedIn? Yeah.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:08:39] Sometimes, LinkedIn, a lot of emails, a lot of like trying to guess the email convention to like sending like six or seven different types of emails to the same person. Some of the same emails to different email addresses for one individual and as I saw from our hit rate was like almost zero, almost zero. And I knew it like I. I read a lot on Wall Street Oasis that felt like you're going to have a lot of roadblocks and like, you can't be disheartened by that. And if you want it like you just got to be persistent. Looking back,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:10] Do you feel like you could have maybe like your pitch could have been tailored better or something like that? Or do you feel like it's just nature of the beast where like your sophomore year? Like, have no ties to anywhere. You have no experience in your resume. It's just that. That's how it's going to be.Yeah, I mean, honestly,
ColoradoMonkey: [00:09:26] As a sophomore, I don't think I could have changed anything like.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:30] You feel like if you had known freshman year and started networking freshman year and I'd done more phone calls without asking for an internship, do you think that may have been able to lead you? Yeah. I mean, like
ColoradoMonkey: [00:09:41] At the end of the day, like even as a sophomore, you really don't know much, at least from my standpoint. Like, you don't really understand finance still, like you only really start to refine that knowledge as you get older. So like, maybe like maybe if I had done more outreach like more or more, just like trying to develop my network more, yeah, that could have helped a little bit. And I wouldn't have had to go to the other side of the world to get an internship for two months. But it was really it's hard.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:06] I have one of my mentees is Grace. She's a freshman at Fordham. Okay? And she we do. We do, actually. It's actually a podcast called Monkey to Millions, where I mentor Three or four kids. It's a different podcast, and she has a huge advantage of being in New York. You know, she's still at a non target, but you know, the number of she had a she had over one hundred and eighty
conversations her freshman year. That's wild, I mean, good for her,
ColoradoMonkey: [00:10:34] Like, that's so she will be fine.
Patrick (CEO of WSO):00:10:36] She's already fine. She has a sophomore internship at Citi. She's she has. She's getting bites from like Blackstone for like junior summer. So yeah, she's going to be fine just because, like she knew early, she planned early freshman year. And so the time is a huge advantage because those initial conversations, it's just like getting people on your radar. So then they come across your resume, you're like, Oh, wait, I know this. I know this girl. I know this guy. That's why that's why I prompted me to ask a question Do you feel like the low hit rate or the lack of hit rate your sophomore year, which maybe you could have maybe gotten one or two hits or one or two bites had you put in the hundred calls 100 plus
ColoradoMonkey: [00:11:12] Freshman year? And I think I think my junior Year is reflective of that. So my sophomore year?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:19] Well, let's talk about the internship, actually. So you fly out to Australia, like what's going on here? Like, how do you? Even so, so OK.A friend of a Friend's dad has a connection out there. Tell me how you even tell me more specifically what that means. ok, so he's one of my best friends.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:11:34] Grew up together in Colorado. He went to School in California at USC, but we remained very close and in touch throughout college. And to this day, we talk almost every day. So very close. And his father loved me and he knew I was really trying to break into the industry one way or another. And it was just like that. One thing where, like all it takes is one. And like, you sometimes don't think that that connection really is going to develop into anything. But somehow he's like, Yeah, I'm happy to put you in touch with my friend. Just talk to him. Wasn't even to try and get me an internship, but he had one of his good friends in Australia. You had the small private equity firm, very small, like 50 million dollar fund. Mm hmm. And he's like, just talked in a good experience for you just to learn from him, if anything. And we connected well and he offered it was unpaid, but he offered it. If I want to come out and I want to learn and just get a good resume experience, I was walking to him. I mean, I'm so happy I did
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:32] Your parents, your parents wanted you, or you had to take on debt or what? Yeah.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:12:36] Funded by the parents, it was funny. Yeah, but it was a hard sell. I mean, convincing my mom and my dad let me go to Australia on the on the basis that it will be good for my career was a very tough sell. Like they thought I was just going to go there a party for two months and have a good time. And it was a really great time. But again, like if it wasn't for that, I think each step has been incredibly crucial to where I'm at today, especially where I started at. But like the Australia experience, I think was vital into helping me get to that next step. My junior year?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:10] Oh, no doubt. I mean, it's interesting. I think interesting. Like why you went to Australia to do a private equity initiative. There probably got you enough that probably got you triple the number of. Interviews you would have had if you had just a nothing on your resume or whatever.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:13:24] Exactly. And it goes back to what I was saying earlier, like just trying to find a way to differentiate myself between all the target school kids and all the non target school kids like my goal was to always try and seem just like a more interesting person, some that you just want to talk to.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:38] What about opportunities for orphans?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:13:43] So that that was done in high school. It cared a little bit through college.my both my parents are originally from South Africa and they immigrated to America in ninety three to leave apartheid. But almost all my extended family remained their uncles, aunts, grandparents, cousins. And because of that, we go back to South Africa. Back in high school was twice a year and college was once a year. And I haven't gone back now for probably since twenty eighteen, but which it's like going back there so often. I had a huge attachment to the country and every time we go there, we work with this NGO called a couple of Bantu got involved with them. They basically provide support, financial, just education, food, whatever orphans need, but specifically focus on orphans that are afflicted by AIDS. So whose parents have died because of AIDS or unable to provide for them because of the disease. And so I got involved with them, but I actually got some of my friends involved as well. We actually took a trip down to South Africa and our senior year of high school, and it was a great experience just to be able to give back to the country that that I grew up loving so much and getting my friends involved and in a really positive and really positive group. And then just by way of like college and like being focused now on my career and like focus on school and having a social life and my friends and I being a part, it just was hard to maintain that momentum and steam. So actually, I passed it on to my sister, who tried to carry the torch a little bit as well. She's four years younger than me, once the same high school. And then when she graduated high school, that was pretty much it. And it kind of it kind of had its own conclusion naturally, put still a fantastic experience
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:26] For sure. Yeah, that's great. So tell me a little bit about now you're kind of in your land in Australia. What is it like day to day? I mean, are you partying the whole time you there? Like, it's OK if you are, I mean, you're a sophomore in college. It's expected. I mean, like, who did you know out there? Did you know anybody?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:15:43] So I had a couple of friends from South Africa South Africa to show that they kind of go back and forth with one another. So a lot of people go there quite often. And so I had a couple of friends there. But no, I mean, for the most part, I was kind of on my own. I had a couple of friends From Colorado who were doing study abroad There or whatever, so I was able to catch up with them. So I did my fair share of going out. I don't think like I took it to the extreme, like my mom was concerned that I might do like being a sophomore in Australia by yourself. But yeah, I mean, I got a tour a little bit. I went out a little bit. But at the end of day, like this trip was focused on, I was focused on still being a good intern. Like I didn't want to go to Australia and Then regret like two weeks later. Like, he doesn't Show up on time, like he does do anything like I wanted. Like, I was still very focused on my career. Like the reason why I was really there.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:32] Okay, so tell me, how did you learn much about like, what did you absorb anything? Did you get some bullets for the resume that so look good?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:16:39] No, absolutely. I mean, when I say I didn't learn anything or it didn't learn much, that's I'm definitely exaggerating. A lot of the work I did was focused on this one project focused on this shale area called the blue base. It's like one of the largest shale plays in Australia. And I just did a lot of work on who the key competitors were in that in that shale play, they. There's like very undeveloped, not even proven reserves like very high levels still Like just like kind of being like an Exciting area for Three to potentially play in. Yeah. And so there was this one business that was
Looking to start A wellhead there, and this firm was interested in investing in them. The firm I was working at got it. I spent most of my time working on that and then just the standard and turned admin work as well. I mean, you know, I tried to learn like actually from an investment perspective, like how professionals were looking at certain companies and certain businesses. But like I said, as a sophomore, you don't even know what an EBITDA margin is like. That's still the concept of EBIT is still over your head. Yeah. And so just like trying to like, I tried my best and I think they tried their best to mentoring, but that stuff was just a little bit too still too high level, like too complex for me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:53] So how did you when you're kind of came back to school, you had that on your resume? How did you kind of approach junior year summer internship kind of the critical recruiting season because it starts early, right? Yeah, I mean, I
ColoradoMonkey: [00:18:08] Know it starts earlier now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:10] I teach in the summer now.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:18:12] I mean, every year, it seems like it starts three or four weeks earlier than it did the prior year for me. For me, recruitment my Super Day superintend started in November, and I was done with recruiting by the middle of that month. But the interview process had started, I think, in September. So I started networking and cold calling and cold emailing, basically. The day I got back from Australia, which was like at the end of July.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:36] So in school didn't start until August, September.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:18:40] Yeah, like late August, I think. Mm hmm. But like but really like three Months and probably actually more because I was already starting to email people in Australia, really Starting to like build up like literally a Rolodex, like an Excel template.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:53] So how many people did you enter in that in that few month, three month period? How many people did you reach out to? What was your hit right?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:18:58] It was four hundred and twenty that I emailed or called. I found almost always cold Calling, though it is like 80 20. I found that I had a lot more success with the cold calling, with cold emailing and cold calling and.So I guess I should maybe take a step back emailed or reach out to four hundred twenty people probably Had a hit rate of like 10 percent. As in people responding to me, not even like actually getting
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:24] Their say, around 40 people responding to you, OK, yeah,
ColoradoMonkey: [00:19:26] 40 people respond, maybe, maybe like closer to 30.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:29] Yeah. And then it's a horrible it's A horrible,
ColoradoMonkey: [00:19:33] It's horrible, I mean, the fact that I can even get a couple of people to respond to that random person. Yeah, it was enough of a success for me. Like that game? Do you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:40] Remember what that email said specifically?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:19:43] I mean, it's still in my personal email. I could probably pull it up, but it was basically something along the lines of I'm originally from Denver, Colorado, going to the university that I went to and recently completed an internship in private equity in Australia.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:00] All right. So I asked Colorado Monkey to go check his email from back in that time so the listeners can hear what he actually sent out for the one that ended up helping him to cure his summer internship. Go ahead. Yeah.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:20:12] So basically start off just by saying I'm a I'm originally from Denver, Colorado, and I'm currently a junior at my university, double majoring in finance and accounting. And then I say. Or to add a middle market private equity firm focused on energy and mining. This past summer, and I'm hoping to continue my experience, ideally with an investment banking, as that is what currently excites me. I was wondering if you had some time this Friday to discuss and talk more about how you were able to break into the industry as you were also from Colorado. It would be great to gain any additional insight or advice that you may have, and it'd be very beneficial to my recruitment efforts. I'm sure you're very busy. So if there is an alternative time that works best for you, I'm happy to make myself available. Thank you again And look forward to hearing from you. Beautiful. I love it. Yeah. High level, I've been I'm sure I like that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:10] You know, I like, you know, I like that email. I like that email because you start off real quick summary, real quick summary of what you are and you show your double major accounting finance. So that's like just checkmark number one. Number two, you layer with immediately. You worked in private equity already. Another check mark in your name. Number three, you make it personal. You talk about Co. Number four, you're humble. You're not trying to like, say, you know, actually number Four, you give A specific you suggest a specific time for when you could do it. But you. Number five, you stay humble and say, but if that doesn't work, you tell me because I know you're super busy. So there's a lot of good things that you did there. Yeah. And any one of those little elements that isn't there. Could be the difference.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:21:57] Exactly. I completely agree, and I think what you just said, like that's I think that is the point when you're doing these animals like you want to show that you're not Just a random person that you've thought about this, like if I'm if you are going to take your time out of sort of turnaround from my perspective now, because I've had people do the exact same thing to me when I was thinking even now, today in private equity, if I'm going to take the time out of my busy day and help you or even just talk to you and I don't have to, then I see a like, You know that this is what you want to do. This isn't like a random person. Just decide they want to do this the other day. Like, hopefully they know that this is a career they want. Mm hmm. So they're committed to it. But be like, if you can show that you're an interesting person or you have something interesting to offer, it's not going to be like some generic conversation. Like people are more inclined, I think, to talk to you. Like I always found when I was when I was still in banking and I get I would get tons, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 emails come recruitment time doing exactly what I did. You don't have the time to talk to all those people. You want to talk to the ones that are most compelling on paper, but also the ones who seem a little bit more interesting, who seem a little bit more unique and not just run-of-the-mill. It may make it personal a little bit. Maybe it's a kid from Colorado. Yeah, well, if I ever had if I ever had a caller out of person reach out to me, I'd always try and make time for them or were there.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:20] That's cool, man. No, thank you for sharing that because I think it's important for people to see like the little nuanced so that it turned out, tell me, tell us, tell us, what was the conclusion? So that email turned out to be someone? Was that person an analyst and associate? What? Who are they? Yeah. So. So I guess what was her name, but who were they like in terms of the organization and how to help you in a position?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:23:43] Sure, sure. So just going back e-mailed a ton of people had about 30 40 people respond had from there a couple of interviews that developed from those introductions. Um, did well in some of them, sometimes, I mean, it's a super days. Didn't get the offer and it was just a learning process. I got better with my holding office, my cold calls, my interviews itself, and then it got to a point where like, I don't know if, like, it's actually going to work out. Like, I almost got to the end of my road just because I was running out of people and time. And so then I sent that email
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:13] Because this is this is November
ish time at
ColoradoMonkey: [00:24:17] This, that that was mid-September. So by mid-September,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:21] You're already thinking, man, this is not good, I already made it to a couple of final rounds. I struck out. Why do you why do you think you didn't get the offers when you made it to super days? And how? How so, you said? Thirty three, four hundred twenty emails turned into thirty five responses turned into a few two to three interview processes. First Round's
ColoradoMonkey: [00:24:41] Live interview, I think it was so, so this is the thing. So yeah, up until this last email that we're about to discuss, I probably had maybe done two or three interviews. Yeah, like first round, but then first round. Sometimes I think, yeah, all first rounds And then two of those three developed into like later stage, like second or third rounds. Then one of those was a super OK. So great.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:02] So tell me about like the one you made it all the way to the Super Day. What you would anything looking back? Man, I wish I had done this. Prepared more technical. Prepare more behavioural. My story wasn't good enough or you nailed it. It just it was more like you're up against just crazy competition.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:25:16] I think the latter, and that's perhaps the most frustrating part about these interviews sometimes, is that you walk away being like, I know I did really well, but you know that probably a lot of other kids did, too. There's nothing that you can change about what you did, right? Sometimes you connect with people more. Sometimes it's not the perfect answer. Sometimes it's not whatever it is. But looking back, obviously my first couple of interviews, I shit the bed because I just
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:39] Because that's what everyone does exactly. It's a learning process by the third one. I'm surprised you made all the way to the Super Day if you felt like that was enough to wake you up that for those first couple of interviews.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:25:50] Yeah, I mean by the Super Day, yeah, I was good to go because I've done so many practice interviews and mock interviews, some of them with like my friend's brother that I mentioned earlier. So he was he was and has continued to be to this day, a great resource for me as I've developed through this process as a student, as being so
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:10] You still you still kind of in your first few interviews, you didn't do well, even with all those marks under your belt.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:26:15] I did fine. I mean, the first interview I did really about it, but I was just a little bit nervous and scared. I think just because it was like my first real one by the Super Day, I thought I did well. Like to say I was surprised that I didn't get an offer is probably not accurate, but like When I didn't think that was probably the hardest part about it is like I. I thought that I was hopeful that I would get it, but I didn't know why it didn't.You perform well, you know you perform well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:39] It was just more probably like the pedigree. There's another kid with Better pedigree that probably performed About the same.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:26:45] Exactly, exactly. And there's nothing you can do. You can't control that. It's just hard. But it is what it is. But it worked out in the end. So from there I was like starting to like, be like, I really don't know if I'm going to get a job in banking. Like, this is really tough and I'll keep pushing, but I just may not have time. So then I sent that email and so that individual was a partner at is a partner at Middle Market Private Equity Firm in New York, a very reputable one. Well known.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:15] And you said to him, you rather go into investment banking.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:27:18] Yeah, yeah. Because I figured like, I'm not jumping into private equity from the get go. I wasn't even sure private equity was what I wanted to do. Like, I just need to try and break down the door in every way and be honest, like, tell them what my intentions are, which is just to trying to get into banking and whatever else happens after that, you know, we'll figure it out.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:36] Did this person, this partner did? Did he or she have a banking background as well?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:27:42] Yeah, he's done banking, but so he was a partner, but he had done banking back in like the 90s.Ok, good. But so but as a partner at this firm and he covered the industrial sector for his shop, he had contacts at literally every single bank, every MD cover, every financial sponsors and like every. Major bulge bracket and boutique and middle market firm, he was friends with and had constant connections with and constant contact, and for whatever reason, he liked me enough to help me out
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:17] And that. But let's talk, but let's talk about that first thing. So because I think that's interesting. So first off, how did you even find this person?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:28:26] So she was from Colorado.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:29] And how did you find him LinkedIn?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:28:33] Linkedin, Watlington, I mean, you find, I pretty sure I have heard of every single person from Colorado who's currently in finance in New York today. At this point, like, I've at least like a name that I would recognize. And so I just reached out to him. The same thing, like guessing email convention and trying to figure out like what the what the email format was for that firm and it worked and it landed and I was able to get in contact with him through that email.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:00] And he's like, set up a time with my assistant or whatever and like, you got, you got on the phone. And then what was that phone call like at this point? You kind of had already felt like you were maybe near the end of your rope anyways with your timing and all this stuff. So because processes, you've already been through a Super Day, so processes are wrapping up like you're not even in first round, you're thinking, I'm done. So what are you? Are you goinng Into this with really thinking, this is my last shot? Are you going to this with like, Hey, let me just see what, what happens? I got to keep trying. Yeah. No, I mean, exactly
ColoradoMonkey: [00:29:35] That, it's like I'm not going to stop like I've done it this far. I went to the other side of the world. I've been spending three months trying to Email and call people and do all these interviews and like tearing my hair out and stressing myself over this, like prioritizing this over my actual exams and schoolwork. Yeah. Like, I'm not going to stop until, like, I literally can't do this anymore. And I have all the people that I had reached out to and spoken with, I Thought this was probably the least likely to actually have any effect because he's not in banking and he's A lot older and there's no
Reason for him to really have to help me want out. But there is a strong connection and he became a little bit not want to call him a mentor, but a great person is to run everything by To this day, like whenever I've Made a career switch.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:20] Well, tell me about that first call, though. You get on the phone call. What? What helped you establish that connection? Do you feel like? And what was that call like?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:30:27] I think so. I think what establish a connection, I think was a we're both in Colorado and I think the fact I think I don't know what it was like for him, for his recruitment Process back in the nineties and the eighties. But I think the challenges That I was facing As a non-target student In resonated with him. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:48] And so you're you were straight. You were like, Hey, I made it's Super Day. I didn't get it. I thought I performed well. And what else? Like, tell me how you tell me how you like, leveled with him or like how open you were and.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:31:01] Yeah, so I told him everything that I had done summer, all my efforts that I had taken, that I had taken on so Far, the interviews I had done
Super Day that I told them straight up, you know, I know I'm prepared, I know I did well, it just didn't work out. And I think he understood that. I tell him that like, this is Something that I really want to do like. I really want to do banking for X, Y and Z reason, and I really want to try and be in the work. I think this is what I really do long term. And at the time, I was Very open to that potentially being. I wasn't set on private equity. Yeah. And I think he appreciated the candor, I think just got along well. And I think he appreciated just the familiarity that we had with a lot of the points of connection, the small ones and the bigger ones.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:50] How did that first call end? So. It's a good question,
ColoradoMonkey: [00:31:54] So I was planning on being in New York. We were doing like a Wall Street track with my school, but like it was already way too late to have any effect. I don't know why we actually had it in the first place, but we're going to be in New York. I told them that was a week later that we were going to be there and he's like, Yeah, we'll just swing by my office. And then I coordinated with his assistant, set up a time to meet that. Finally. Like, so many things have to occur. That like that I got so lucky, like it's a matter of being persistent, but also being very lucky, I think.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:24] Yeah, but tell me how You ended up, you still didn't have after that first call in the week later, the trip, you didn't have any other interviews lined up nothing. Yeah. So that's the
ColoradoMonkey: [00:32:33] First week of September, 2nd week of September we need. And we have a face to face conversation, we have lunch in his office. We're sitting in the boardroom this long table. And again, like just great conversation,
Not even focused so much on what do you want to do? Why do you want to do banking? It's more Just like, literally, let's get to know each other a Little bit. Um, and then. Left that meeting feeling good about it, hoping that he would set me up with some of His contacts. He'd say, Yeah, I'll introduce you to a couple of people. I think you might be a good fit at X, Y and Z Bank. And what he meant by that is that he was literally going to email every single person in this financial sponsors that covers financial sponsors within his 15 banks. And I got interviews at like 10 or 12 different places, ranging from Barclays For green hell like places that like I could only have like Jackpot about interviewing at that I thought were not even possible. And that caliber, those interviews were another caliber like they were another level.
But wait,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:39] Wait before you even go there, do you? Did you see the emails that he did? He CCU on these outreach emails?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:33:44] Yeah, I can try and pull it up.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:46] Let me see if I can hit pause again. You try to pull it up. All right, so we found the emails, the famous emails, so yeah, go ahead and let's see what he said about you.
ColoradoMonkey:00:33:57] Yeah, so it's it looks like it's pretty. Pretty generic, nothing. Nothing too insane, but OK, so per our conversation, I am copying me and attaching his resumé in the hopes that you too can connect. He's very interested. He's very interested in a summer investment banking internship, and we would both appreciate your assistance in helping him navigate the process at X, Y or Z Bank. And this is what he sent to. So many players like I'm looking at it right now, like I'm seeing. Bmo Goldman, Barclays, like all these places, that two months you get a partner at a private equity shop to basically
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:36] Vouch for you and send to all his contacts at 20 ish banks. Yeah, like, hey, give it, get this kid in the process.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:34:43] Exactly. And you like it was like a cheat code. I pretty much jumped the entire line. Like, no more coffee chats, no more informational interviews.Like there's something,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:54] There's something there, like if you can. I mean, tell me about the background, because I guess a lot of private equity partners or whatever senior people at PE firms. The banks, the bankers will jump when they say jump. Yeah, right, because they're bringing them so much business. So like, this guy sends out 20 emails to all his contacts. Those bankers, they're going to get you in the process.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:35:21] Yeah, look, I mean, I pretty much backed it. I went the other way in a sense, rather than trying to talk to the juniors, like the analysts and the associates to get an interview, I went not even to the MDS. I went to the to the guy, which is
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:36] Which is a really kind of it's rare Because what I'll
say is usually the way it works is you want to get in good with the analysts because the analysts, the analysts are the ones picking the resumes. That you want them to pick your resume on and put it in the interview pile.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:35:50] I think just a matter of desperation and luck and persistence. That's what it was like because he was he was the very last of the people that I, you know, because I had like, we just felt like I had emailed younger people, Junior analyst associates, whatever, hoping that I could find a connection there. Mm hmm. But the strongest one was with the old guy who hadn't been in banking for almost 30 years. Interesting. So, yeah, so tell me a little bit about
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:20] All these processes and how it worked out. So you were suddenly, I mean, weren't some of these already wrapping up?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:36:26] Yeah. So I was already late to half of them, but they were like able to get me in whatever that means. But yeah, I basically did phone interviews across the board with every single one of them. All of them went well, like is at this point, I'm kind of seasoned.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:41] And yeah, at this point I think of all the reps you're getting at real interviews that you become a machine. Exactly. Yeah. So and like, these are back like
ColoradoMonkey: [00:36:51] Every day, sometimes to two different interviews a day, like because I've got all of these interviews now
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:55] Which do not fail out of school. Yeah. How did you? Were you at school like a problem?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:37:01] I literally got a d on my midterm and my for one of my final accounting classes because I did zero study. Yeah. So like I said, I prioritized this and I was willing to like bite the bullet and whatever. Get a shitty grade on midterm
with the long term prospect of getting an internship. Yeah. Ok, so tell
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:20] Me a little bit about specifically how those interviews went. If you remember like which banks you interviewed with? Yeah, yeah. No, I remember some of them very well
ColoradoMonkey: [00:37:30] Because they were so the very first couple of interviews on the phone. All of them are great. Like more informational. Very easy to connect. Always junior guys. So like, very easy to connect with one another. Recent college grads. The second round interviews for some places were fine. They got a little bit harder, a little bit more focus on time and gold. I remember one interview at Green Hill was a nightmare. It was like so theoretical and just a very tough case study. Basically, it was like, ask, I don't remember exactly what the case entailed, but it involved suitcases and an airport and like trying to figure out like
ColoradoMonkey: [00:38:11] Estimate.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:13] As I count, it was a it was basically a consulting interview with a sizing question. Exactly, exactly. Right sizing
ColoradoMonkey: [00:38:19] Operational efficiencies. It was everything built into one of stuff that I was not prepared for. Ok. And I walked away from that being like, shit, OK, I really got it tied up. And at this point, I don't have many cards to play. I don't have any more chips Left to use, and I don't want to embarrass my contact and make him look bad. Yeah. And so I've already done well in the first and second round interviews for some of those places. But then after that, it's like, All right, I really need to turn this up a notch. And like I just I,I studied as hard as I could for like those next couple of days and refined my story, figuring out like areas that I Could work and improve on and honestly, like the marginal improvement was probably minimal. Mm hmm. But I felt very good going into the remaining into the remainders of those interviews. So like there was Greenhill, there was GMO. There was evercore. It was Barclays, Baumel, Deutsche Bank, Jefferies. Then a couple other ones. Wow. Yeah. It's like literally like every single bank that like I could have wanted to interview.I got a shot at and a week prior to that, I had zero Prospects. It was just two ends of the spectrum.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:28] So, OK, so you're doing all these first rounds out of so it sounds like you did like 12 first rounds
ColoradoMonkey: [00:39:33] Suddenly. Maybe a little less. Maybe like 10. Yeah, but
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:36] Ok. And then how many of those kind of turned into second rounds?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:39:39] So almost, I think all of them turned into second rounds and then like from there, like I would have like third rounds and start to drop out. But still, like I probably have like 70 or 60 percent hit rate getting to the super days. And so some, fortunately for me, some of these super days, I don't know if it was because they had a separate process for non-target kids because all these banks have
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:00] On campuses, later, they're later,
ColoradoMonkey: [00:40:02] They're all later. And so I was able to, like, sneak into the process that way. And one of the banks that I knew I had done well at it was kind of expecting to get a Super Day. I had it in the like. I think it was like November 10th, like between the first and second week of November ahead of a couple of other banks
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:20] That are trying to. They're trying to jump ship and grab the best non targets. Yeah, that's
ColoradoMonkey: [00:40:25] Smart. And I interviewed there, I actually didn't think I did well on my Super Day. I actually thought was fine, but I didn't think I'd come out of other super dates and other interviews feeling a lot better. Like the first one, the first
one that I did where I didn't get an offer. But for whatever reason, I think I connected a lot with Some of the MDS That I interview with because I interviewed with eight different people that day in my Super Day, ranging from analysts to managing directors. And I think one of those guys was a heavy Hitter in the health care group. Mm hmm. And I connected well with some of them, and the following day I got an offer and I cancelled
All my flights back to New York, all my super days that I had scheduled some of them. One of them was at Bam, although I was at Deutsche Bank. Like, I was just so
Done with the process at that point and very, very happy with the offer that I had from the other firm that had gone a little bit earlier. And I just accepted it on the spot over the phone, signed the contract the next day for my internship offer. And it was a long process.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:35] And I'm sure you sent an email. Oh yeah, effusively. Thank you.I called him, I called him directly, and he was
ColoradoMonkey: [00:41:43] In a meeting. Then I sent him an email, and then
we caught up the following evening and he was Pompton. I remember just that feeling I'd walked out of my one of my finance classes and like. I felt like I got into college again, like you're doing. That's what it felt like, just like an absolute weight off your shoulders, like all the effort that you've put in for me months. But you know, like in high school years or whatever you want to call it, like it was honestly like one of the best feelings I've had in my life, just because there was stress and anguish that had gone into it. Yeah. So much concern that I don't think this is going to work. And then for
all of it to just come together within the span of two weeks
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:24] Come about like some people in that seat wouldn't have accepted right off the bat. Was there an exploding deadline where they knew like, Hey, you're going back for these all these other processes?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:42:34] No, I had a week to accept
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:36] The why cancel all the other stuff? Just because you're like, Man, I cannot leave school again and go to New York again.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:42:42] There are a couple of things. Yeah, I was very tired of flying up and down to New York. That was the first thing. The second thing is I was like, genuinely just happy with like this was like a top bank that I wanted to work at as a great bank. Yup, yup. And then the third is I just I didn't. I didn't want to make the people that had referred me back, because now I've got the partner, the private equity firm, I've got senior guys at the bank through the partner or pushing my resume forward. From the interviews that are pushing for me, yeah. And I just I didn't want to start my internship off of like air being like, All right, well, this guy's taking a week to respond. It just doesn't look good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:24] Yeah, you want it to be just like, Let's do it, let's go. Yeah. And I spoke to my parents about it, too, and they don't know anything about finance, but my dad had a good point. It's like, you're not going to learn anything else about these banks, like You might be at a better bank, like name wise, like
ColoradoMonkey: [00:43:38] Like a slightly better place, but like, yeah, there's no difference. And so I just feel like this is easier. It will be better for me just in terms of it process. Just take it. Be happy with it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:49] Good for you. Mission accomplished. Yeah, yeah. Because I think there are some people that are always thinking, OK, now what can I leverage it? How can I trade it?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:43:55] Yeah. And I know a lot of people that did that, not in the interview process, but like after our internship To try to look At the grass screen or some of them were happy With the decision. I know lots of people who regret that choice because they developed these strong relationships in the internship Class. Mm hmm. And came into the other class, came into the new bank without having known, without having known the interns. And like, they didn't have that same camaraderie and rapport that some of us had.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:19] After this podcast has been going pretty long, I don't want to keep it too much longer, but just real quick. Talk to me a little bit about what that internship was like hours Wise. Did you learn a ton ramping up all that stuff? Just give a quick synopsis of that and then tell me a little bit about how you knew you had the offer and then the idea of, OK, I'm just going To stick with this, this bank, and because I do want to get to a little bit of private equity to eventually.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:44:43] Sure. So ours, brutal knew that going into it, but Neither plus week or 100 plus, I would say as not the first week, but after That first semester, we were fine. But that eight week period was just like nonstop going. And it wasn't just me. It was a lot of us would always be in the office till two or three and back in by eight or nine. You don't want to show up late as an intern. Yeah, but in essence, that that was good because it prepared us for our analyst full time analyst Program, which was just as bad, if not Worse Hours wise, but learned a ton and made some really great connections with my intern class and some of the analysts and full time associates to the bank I was at. They it's not rotational, but it's a generalist program. So like you're not siloed into any specific group, so you get to learn a little bit about health care, about industrials, about technology, M&A, whatever. And so I got to experience that. I did I did, rather than being forced to just choose a group on like some arbitrary view of an industry or procedure. I got to really experience what I like the most and it was a great fit for me. Like in my, I went to that same group Or I got experience, many different groups. There was one group that I really liked in my internship program, and I ended up going into that group full time the following year. And it was great experience again, really tough. But some of my friends from that experience in banking are my best friends today. Like I see them every week. And even though we're all at different shops now. Tell me a little bit about like. The decision to start
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:18] Recruiting for private equity when that happened, and why wouldn't if you felt like you were learning a ton? Is it more just a lifestyle thing? Do you feel like the bank makes a mistake by pushing people so hard? Like should they have hired five more analysts, 20 more analysts so that it's more like an 80 hour work week? And potentially the attrition wouldn't be as so high to Typekit? What's your thought process on that?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:46:38] Yeah. You know, and I go back and forth on it. My view is changed a little bit since I left. I think at the end of the day, banking analysts are viewed by banks as cheap labour. Because you are like on an hourly basis. You are, you are cheap labour and you're competent and you're willing to work hard, you're hungry. And they know that. I think that. The nature of banking, and it varies at different banks, for sure, but the nature of banking is that there will always be work to be done like you can turn a document, you can turn a pitch deck, you can turn a SIM, turn a model 50 60 times and it will never be perfect. And that's the part that I think makes the hours really tough. It's not like, oh, like, I've got eight deals, and that sometimes is the case. But for me, it wasn't like eight or seven deals I'm trying to balance. It's like. Like, they're just constant comments and Edits of refining and tweaking
Everything, and like when one thing is done, there's another thing to do. And I don't think that having multiple more bodies, more analysts would necessarily help that maybe a little bit. But I think it's just something that's much more inherent in the culture of the industry where it's just like, We're going to work hard and we're going to try and
Perfect it, but it will never be perfect. I know a lot of
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:47] The bulge brackets are getting some pushback on that now, and they are trying to put in some policies that have like an occasional protected weekend. Everyone protected weekend per month or like pencils down on Friday into Saturday and the at least the analysts are saying It's somewhat enforced.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:48:04] I mean, we had that, too. We have oh, you did. So has that. Yeah. And it didn't. It didn't work Because the thing is, at the end of the day, someone has to enforce it. It's not typically air And it's not the Group head because they don't care. So it's like some VP who's like trying to like balance work life, the culture and like trying to help the group. But at the end of the day, if you've got three MDS saying, like, No, my analysts are working today, you're the VP trying to push back against them. It doesn't really work. Hmm. It's it needs to come all the way from the top. Yeah. Typically doesn't usually like mid-level managers. Interesting. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:41] So, so tell me about like, what did you know about private equity? You had the private equity internship, obviously, but like had you learned what you put done, margin was at this point. I'm still trying to figure it out today. I mean, so I came into banking open mind,
ColoradoMonkey: [00:48:58] Knowing how in the industry, up and coming out of the internship, knowing that it really is brutal and that this probably isn't sustainable. Um, career choice for the long term. But that could do it for a couple of years. Not a problem, but still came in with an open mind, even as a full time analyst within six months, I knew that this was definitely not the case. I wanted to try and I wanted to try and Interview in my first year, like most kids do, like for like the rush to the mega funds and do and do on cycle recruitment.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:29] Yeah, I mean, six months, six months in. It's kind of like had things already kicked off, I was already too late. Or no, it was kind of just starting start in December. Yeah, like this is when
ColoradoMonkey: [00:49:38] Like things were normal, but not really. Now it's like
september, August, but
Like before you even hit the desk. But I was a couple of months into the job and I just didn't feel ready. I didn't like, you need to talk about your deals, private equity and private equity interviews, and I just didn't have enough substance. I had some pitches and I had to deal where I was, like the second analyst, but I didn't have enough like where I could like really talk about anything. Ask me any question. I know this deal back to front.I didn't have my first year or into my first year was over. And then at that point, that's when I really hit it hard and I met with all the headhunters.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:16] So you wanted to interview the first year, but you decided against it. Or like, what was the thought process? Were you getting hit up by recruiters and saying, not this year?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:50:22] So I was getting hit up by Headhunters, and I met with all of them and I tried doing one or two interviews at just like just standard middle market firms, you know, reputable places, but not anywhere like, I need to be at this place. And I just is like. Like, they would just like ask me things about deals that I should know and that I just couldn't answer.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:42] Yeah, you needed the deal. Cheat sheets from the private equity interview, of course, from Davis, though, you should have structured your entire.What's that?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:50:52] I highly recommend that all your listeners and users get that because I did. Oh, you did? Ok, good. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we all need me and all my analysts, we all my analysts and I. We leveraged Wall Street alliances throughout banking and before and I don't know. I haven't been on there in a while now, but it was definitely a helpful resource, even in the dark days. Yeah, I mean,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:13] You have the modeling test, you have the LBO modeling test, which are part of some processes. But I think people underestimate the importance of being able to speak about your deals and know every single number behind them and know the story and know how you'd look at it as an investment. I think that's so that's really the meat. Absolutely. But you have to have the modeling and the LBO modeling. You've got to be able to sit down in a room and build an LBO model in forty five minutes to an hour, but like. Really like what impresses people is if you can talk about the meat, like the deals, I mean, your model is check the box, no one's going to hire
ColoradoMonkey: [00:51:42] You off the mall. If you mess up the model, you're not getting on, but you're not getting hired off the mall. It's your deal walkthrough. It's who you are just culturally like. Yeah. People always say it on websites, but like, yeah, like the cultural fit within a private equity firm is someone just because it's a smaller environment and that's not something you can control. And again, it's a disheartening experience, like knowing that you crush an interview. You do well in the mall, you do well and you do a walk through because again, this happened to me where like I interviewed it, six or seven different places and this time like knowing I did really well this now in my second year. Yeah, knowing I've done well in all these interviews, I just like not getting the return off, like thinking like, Oh, I'm best friends.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:23] There's a little bit of prestige. Like, like, Oh, he didn't go to a target school. He's not like us kind of thing going on in private equity.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:52:33] I think it differs at firms. I think that. Neck and neck, like everything else equal, they're going to go with the kid
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:42] From has,
ColoradoMonkey: [00:52:43] Yeah, who is. Especially if there's like a strong alma mater at that private equity. If you have a couple of Princeton guys because there are hardly any people from Colorado and Private Equity Bank, the amount of people that make it to private equity like almost zero. Yeah, there's probably 10 of us that I can
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:01] Think of at the top. That guy that was in your frat, that was that had done a Goldman internship, did he make it to private equity? Did he go? Yeah, yeah.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:53:08] He went to a great shop for him. Yeah, he's a VP now. So he he's done really well for himself and he continues to be a great resource. I haven't spoken to them, but yeah, I think so.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:20] Tell me. Yeah. So it sounds like you had a handful of five to seven private equity interview processes that were set up to recruiters in your second year. You bombed a little bit in the first year you said, OK, hit the pause. Did you did you decide to do that or the recruiters do like it's probably best, I guess.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:53:35] I decided I could tell after my second one. This is a waste of time. I'm just burning my chips with recruiters and firms like.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:42] And so how did you communicate that to recruiters? That's interesting that, you know, I've had other interviews where people. Ended up getting an
Offer in private equity, taking it, and they've actually said to me on the podcast, like, just like this conversation to like, I actually regret recruiting my first year because I feel like I could have really crushed it my second year. It's interesting that you say that as well.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:54:04] Yeah, I know people who did recruit their first year, and some of them were happy. Some of them really regretted. I think so for me that what I communicated that to recruiters, I mean, I figure that they already knew that I didn't do well in these interviews like. I'm sure I figure that the private equity firms have told them that we don't want X, Y and Z candidate like this cannot really do well. Maybe there wasn't that much color and detail around my performance specifically, but just bowing out in the first round as an absolute No. Two times. I just I knew that it was going to work, so I told them, like I was very upfront and honest that I think I just need more time, like It's early on or only a couple of months into the job. I just need more time to learn a little bit more about what I really want to do. Private equity is definitely the route I want to take and just get a little bit more experience on the job before I try and need one. One spot that I've been in for less than six months, looking two years ahead. And I think people appreciate it. I think everyone recognize how insane this timeline is now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:03] Yeah. So tell me how you kind of approach the second year. Tell me the numbers. So what? 10 first round interviews when you're like, Okay, I'm ready. This one probably went off in like, what? November or August,
ColoradoMonkey: [00:55:16] September, November?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:17] Yeah, Thanksgiving. Was that the one that was the year right before Thanksgiving?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:55:22] Yeah. The one right after getting one right before Thanksgiving was. As in 1988. That's right. One right before Thanksgiving is the year I recruited, but I didn't do on cycle, so I was figuring it out. So I like when everything happened, that's when I knew I am going to recruit. But I wasn't ready to, like, start recruiting for all the megaphones and all the on sacred places. So why not? Why not? Yeah. So why? Why?
Patrick (CEO of WSO):00:55:49] Why did you say you weren't ready?
ColoradoMonkey: [00:55:51] I think, well, I think no one expected things to begin when they did. Yeah, it caught us off by surprise. And I think that. Because of that and my head, I was already I already knew that I was going to recruit, but. Because I think off by surprise would be like I didn't want to be at the sweatshop that I had been in. Yep, the bank I was like, I wanted to find a place that was smaller, not even in terms of like a um, like I never really cared about, like what size this middle market firm was versus that or like. But like when you were at larger firms, they just have processes that make things more difficult for work life balance. They've got more portfolio companies, the more people you got to manage. And I just knew like being at a larger firm like I was never going to get the quality of life that I wanted, you know, quality life balanced. I wanted, whereas I could definitely achieve that at a solid, middle market sized firm with like a smaller team and investing in companies that I dealt with on a more common Basis too. Like it just wasn't as appealing to me to be at a larger firm and try and push myself to get into a spot where I may regret it two years later down the road.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:04] Sure. I think it's also tough to if you're working with middle market, like if you're not the large bolt bracket banks at certain firms, it's actually
really hard to even get those jobs in the first place. But yeah, so OK. So you're kind of start the recruiting process, tell me, but you're kind of off cycle. When did you start January? You're with
ColoradoMonkey: [00:57:23] Your process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like I would say even a little bit before that, like I was already talking to places like december, OK? And so tell me
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:31] How that went. And just a little bit and we'll wrap it up.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:57:35] Yeah, for sure. So at this point, like I like, I'm ready a year and a half into banking, I know private equity is what I want to do. Um, and I'm getting a lot of interviews much easier than I had encountered as a junior in college now because at this point I've got banking, it's a lot easier to break down the door. Some of them were through headhunters, some of them were through people that I had known in the industry at this point. So kind of just Touching all my bases And did well in every single one of them Made it to the super days in almost All of them, like seventy seventy five, 80 percent. Wow. And. Um, every single time up until. Was at the end where I got my offer. Almost every single time it was like. You did really well, but we took someone else. You did really well, but they like this. You do well, but they had this kid had better back, which is one reason or one excuse to like not get it, but like. Like I remember, there was this one firm. All the analysts in my class we interviewed at. It's a really and it was a really, really solid product like top notch, great work-life balance, great track record, like everything that you would want really as your next gig. We all interview there. I was the only person that made it to the Super Day from our bank. I have like 60 people that were like three or four people left. We're going to take two. And I just there was someone that beat me out
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:58] And just couldn't convert it. Oh, at the end, that's so frustrating.
ColoradoMonkey: [00:59:02] And that's the reality that I think a lot of people, not everyone, but I think a lot of people do face as they do really well, they're very well pedigreed at this point. They have great experience, it really smart. They fit well into the firm like everything that you need. But there's like so many, it's not a little bit and it's just persistence again, kind of like the banking thing. This is persistence, too. And eventually, if you want it, in my opinion, if you want it that badly, one of them will eventually land. And so it's after, I think, like my ninth or 10th interview, and I was interviewing primarily in New York. But some time a couple of the firms I was talking to were in LA because I was toying with the idea of going West Coast. A lot of friends there, just being from Colorado. And it was the same deal. Like New York, L.A. didn't even matter was encountering. I was going through the exact same. Um, challenges
and speed bumps, but eventually one worked out, and it's been an incredible experience. I'm happy that I waited that first year to recruit because I would hate that I'm off on having a good time right now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:05] Yeah, that's awesome and I love your story. I think it's it's great before before we call it any last words of wisdom, anything kind of pep talk or motivational words for the kids out there? Yeah, I'm listening to this. Because we have a big swath of on targets.
ColoradoMonkey: [01:00:22] Ok. So I think. I think my story hopefully connects with people like I didn't have the right, like I had a good GPA, but not a great one, I went to a non target state school like. Like, I think my case is what a lot of people go through and the challenges that I faced almost pushed me to the end where I didn't even make it to New York or banking. But I think it's just a good story after showing like it's persistence. And if you want it that badly and you put in the effort, like if you're willing to take it on a midterm to take those interviews and try and get that job in the long term, I think it works out. And I think it's just like maintaining that positive, persistent attitude. And I think with that mentality, it will all work out if banking or private equity or
whatever it is that you want to do. Yeah. And I think it's important to let people know
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:12] That if you had not gotten a private equity offer, let's say you didn't get it. It's not like your life would have been over. No, you probably could have found a really cool corp dev gig corporate, you know, who knows? And maybe you would love that, you know?
ColoradoMonkey: [01:01:29] Exactly. I think I put a lot more stress on myself
to get the banking gig coming out of college, just because that's a very big step like it gets. Get that stamp on your resume.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:38] Yeah, it opens up a lot of doors.
ColoradoMonkey: [01:01:40] It does. It does. And so I was less stressed about that. But even with the banking like, if you're seriously considering doing investment banking, hopefully you have a good GPA. You've demonstrated that you're smart. You need to be somewhat sociable like. Just say it doesn't work out that there are so many other industries that are great learning, great training grounds, great pay, and if you still really want to do banking or private equity or whatever it is in a couple of years, you do that job, you go to grad school or you try and work banking and through another route. And if that's what you really want, it will eventually land the will eventually stick. It's just again, like being persistent. Yeah, for sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:17] Well, man, thank you so much for taking the time. It's been a fun, fun chat longer than I expected, but I love it.
ColoradoMonkey: [01:02:23] Yeah, no. Yeah. Well, it's been over an hour. Yeah. Oh, a
long for the technical difficulty is probably about it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:32] Yeah, exactly. Melissa Mann. Thanks so much. I appreciate it. Take care, yeah. No, it's not.And thank you, and thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis, if you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis. And till next time.
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