WSO Podcast | E141: West Point to Army to MIT MBA to BB Investment Banking
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In this episode, MilitaryMonkey shares his winding path from West Point to serving in the army for over 5 years. Hear what happened on his birthday when he was stationed in Afghanistan, when he thought an MBA might be a good idea and how he broke into a top bulge bracket bank as an associate with no previous technical background. Also, pay special attention to how he approached his role as a post-MBA associate in IB to be successful.
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WSO Podcast (Episode 141) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me! As I talked to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general let's get to it in this episode militaryMonkey shares his winding path from West Point to serving in the army for over five years. Hear what happened on his birthday when he was stationed in Afghanistan, when he thought an MBA might be a good idea, and how he broke into a top bulge bracket bank as an associate with no previous technical background. Also pay special attention to how he approached his role as a post MBA associate in Ibi to be successful. Enjoy. Our military monkey, thanks so much for joining the Wall Street Voices podcast. It's great to be here. So it would be awesome if you could just start off by giving the listeners a short summary of your bio.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:01:09] Or so I was born and raised in western
Pennsylvania and
At an early age, really, I guess the Crucible event was nine 11, but at an early age I wanted to go into the military and serve the country and that kind of led me to West Point, which was which was once I got in. It was a no brainer to attend. I was very set at a young age on doing that, so I did the four years of West Point and majored in civil. It was a combination of civil engineering and then project management. And then from there I branched into the army infantry and was at a number of military bases. Did the Ranger school thing served in Afghanistan and had a wonderful time, and I was in charge of units ranging from platoon of 40 soldiers to serving as an operations officer of two thousand five hundred. So it was I feel like I got to see the gamut from tactical all the way up to strategic, which was which was pretty cool. And then from there I decided to. A transition and moved wanted to get my MBA, so I went to MIT Sloan and during the summer intern at my current bulge bracket bank and in there to this day. So I'm an associate in the group right now and enjoying it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:42] Very cool. Let's start all the way back kind of you before when you said, you know, nine eleven, you bring back. I was in, I was in college. Where were you? How old? How old were you around? When that happened?
MilitaryMonkey: [00:02:52] I was 12 years old. Wow, it's a pretty 12-year-old.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:55] I'm sure it left a really big impact. Tell me a little bit about, you know, you said it was a no brainer when you got in to go. Was it because of like you knew, the military was like you just had wanted to kind of serve for a long time? And that was. Yeah, I had
MilitaryMonkey: [00:03:10] I had some family members and some experiences with West Point grads as well. And I mean, during your formative years, there's nothing like going to a service academy and getting that type of development. It makes the rest of the world a lot. I mean, honestly, it makes a lot of what you do in finance feel pretty easy, which is nice because it's just about grit. And so I think they really install that in you. But the really the catalyst was some of my family members I spoke with and I was looking for an opportunity to serve in the greatest capacity possible at the youngest age possible. And and it was very clear that that was by going into the army. So hence West Point and then tell me a little bit about, you know,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:54] How listeners should think. Maybe they're kind of making this decision. How should listeners think about going to a West Point? Like, obviously it's like the hub versus going to like doing some sort of ROTC program or
like, isn't there? There's other ways to kind of be involved, right? And then potentially
what's the difference like for somebody who doesn't really understand it like me? What's the difference? So I think I think the difference is, is you can have.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:04:21] You know, you can you can have like a fairly normal experience by going through the RTC process, you still get the normal college experience. And I would say you're like half and half out, whereas at West Point, it is one. There are no fraternities. There's no I mean, you're I think the consequences for doing what I what I think most people do to blow off steam in college are a little bit more severe at a service academy. I know that they are. And so you're really fully immersed in the lifestyle. And so I would say, because of that, it gives you this baseline ability to understand leadership and which I've actually over the last 10 years have benefited greatly from.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:13] Tell me a little bit about just as you're going through. That through West Point, through the undergrad program, I know academically, it's very rigorous, right? Mm hmm. Tell me a little bit about that and how you balanced whatever the roles they were. I mean, what was the life? I mean, maybe if you can share what was the life like, obviously, academically very rigorous. I'm sure you're doing a lot of work. But were they just like? Well, I mean, I don't know what are you able to share that the that you're comfortable sharing with?
MilitaryMonkey: [00:05:44] Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, if there is an actual science
To ensuring that you understand leadership, West Point has found it. I mean, it's a fantastic institution. People always say it's a great place to be from. Rather than a great place to be at. But the as there's very clear developmental phases and it starts at the year, your freshman year and they teach you how to be a follower. They basically strip you of all autonomy. Got it to the point where you can't talk outside. And then from there you step into in your sophomore year managing like an individual. And then from there, your junior and senior year, you'll be managing anywhere from maybe, I guess, 10 to 15 Cadets all the way up to The entire corps of cadets, which is about four thousand
Four hundred. So they really develop you and it's like it's a very controlled environment. And then in terms of the lifestyle, they evaluate you in three pillars
and that's going to be academic, military and physical. And you actually have military classes, military science. You have military training. During the summers in particular and then the physical, you know, you have to take boxing as a as a freshman and they make you they make sure you know what it's like to get hit in the face. You have to take some like, I mean, essentially what is like functional And you come out at the end with a class ranking which essentially determine back when I was there, it determined your fate. There was nothing more interesting. So it was it was very it was
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:32] A very interesting time. The physical, not your academic, the physical ranking determines your determine your fate in what sense, in terms of what types of what types of your leadership were level in the army. Yeah, so it would have been it's a combination of those three pillars the academic, physical and military that all provide this
MilitaryMonkey: [00:07:53] Composite score and then that composite score ultimately will determine what branch you get in the in the army. So, you know, infantry, field, artillery, aviation, whatever. And it will also determine where you go as your first duty assignment.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:08] And so tell me about like, are there if you can share? Are there certain areas like people to all people want to do aviation? Do all people want to do other stuff? What's the like? I think I think it It's kind of
MilitaryMonkey: [00:08:23] Based on the climate. So I think when the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where through peaks you saw a lot of a lot of cadets wanting to go into the infantry. Myself included. Yeah. And I think you also see a lot of people gravitate towards aviation. And I mean, it's just an awesome job. You know, I always wish i had been a pilot, but they I would say that those are probably still to this day two of the most in-demand branches coming out of West Point.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:57] Are you allowed to share what your rank was coming out of your class? Oh, yeah, I was I was sitting pretty in like the four hundred range,So it was about a thousand OK thousand. Yeah, I'm not so like four four. I will say for anyone listening, like I did not have an immaculate GPA. I had like a solid B to B plus GPA and I was very content with that. And so is there great inflation there or is that like really good or is that is it more like? Were you above average on the. I just I'm
curious. Were you both average on like the physical and then like or super above average in the military, below average in the physical and slightly above average academically? Like, is that fair? So yeah, I was good physically and
MilitaryMonkey: [00:09:46] Militarily. I was I was doing well in those pillars. It was the academics that just, you know, you have to and it's like, you know, I hate the feeling, but it's like almost everywhere I go. Regardless of how, how, how, how challenging the
circumstances are, there's always someone that's getting an A-plus. Always, and it's It shocks me. So yeah, there were people walking out with a four three that were top 10 in my class. And they're doctors now. So yeah, so that's life.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:20] So you're kind of getting through this as you kind of approaching your senior year, you're kind of getting a better sense of like where you rank and all this stuff as it goes along and you. Tell me about that first, I know you can't go to too much detail, but like you were. In the army for five plus years, right, so tell me a little bit about just the evolution of that, how you started kind of managing larger
teams and just any leadership guidance for people, kind of. And did you ever think at that? At what point was finance even on the radar and NBA even on the radar? I'd love to hear that.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:10:59] That was year five, but I, I will say. I will say that, and all too often, I think I see the opposite happening, but regardless of whether someone's going into the military or going into finance, you have, you have to enter with strong humility. And I think it's not like it deprecating humility, it's the type of humility that. And this is what they teach at West Point in that first year. They teach you how to be a follower and like no associate like post MBA associate going into a bulge bracket bank should be showing up to immediately feel like they like they're leading. I mean, they need to sit there and absorb, learn the culture, learn the people. And so that would be my biggest piece of advice. And that's what you know, when you enter the military, you have a platoon sergeant who's been in the army for about 17 years, but technically you're in charge of him. But it's like, you know, that's an interesting dynamic. And I was always told when you show up, spend like three months just getting the lay of the land, getting to know people, helping them understand who you are so that whenever it's time for you to start giving guidance, they're following you and they respect you because getting buy in is the step that so many people miss all too often. Sure. Yeah, and I can tell you a lot of post MBA
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:26] Associates don't get that. So tell me and tell me a little bit about so you're as you're kind of going through your career. We'll call it at the army and tell me about any funny stories. You can share any scary stories you're allowed to share for the audience.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:12:46] Yeah, OK. All right, so this was a good one, but I was in I was in Afghanistan with my platoon and I was with probably in total we had 40 soldiers and we were living in this like this tent structure. But it was built up enough that it had like portable fire alarms. And that just to make sure that, you know, if we got rocketed or
if someone you know, burned their popcorn or something that the fire alarms going to go off. And it was my birthday and my soldiers attacked me like they I mean, they physically attacked me on my birthday and I fought back as aggressively as I could. But it was like 30 against one and they threw me in a chair and then duct taped me completely to this chair. And then and we're on call to go on like to on standby for missions in the event that we need. And you're the boss a launch. And so I'm attached to this chair and they shove me in this dark room and then just shut the door and lock the door. And also, I couldn't speak. And so I'm just sitting there and eventually one of the one of the senior non-commissioned officers comes in and lets me up. And no, no missions happen. Nothing like that. So it was all good. So fast forward, like three hours and I sat there by myself just thinking about how am I going to get back at these soldiers? All of them were sitting in this one room. And they were doing this like mock board, promotion board, and I figured, you know, there's a little gap under the door. And I was right next to a fire extinguisher. And so I took the fire extinguisher hose and I discharged an entire fire extinguisher into a confined area with my saucers sitting there. I mean, they could obviously get out very easily. And but what I didn't realize was there was a fire alarm in there. Oh my God. Which instantly, instantly went off and that section of our base was shut down while we had to, you know, allow the local fire departments to come in and try to figure out what was going on. So it was it was a total mess, but it was it was one of those experiences. They gave me an incredible nickname.
And it was a bonding experience, for sure. But I mean, those are the, you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:26] Know, it's your birthday, so you can't get in trouble.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:15:30] I couldn't. But I never lived it down to this day. I haven't lived it down, so
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:36] It's so funny. So, OK, so you said it was late, kind of before you even thought of an MBA? Tell me about what kind of put it on your radar to go MBA? Why MBA? Why not something else? Why not just come back and figure it out? Or maybe you just go back and figure it out? I think I think when service members
MilitaryMonkey: [00:15:59] Decided they wanted transition, they. That it's I mean, that's a major decision because, you know, nothing else, especially if you're coming from West Point.And then all of a sudden,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:12] It's almost a decade, It's almost a century, yeah,
MilitaryMonkey: [00:16:16] Essentially. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so you don't know anything, you don't even understand what the civilian world is. And when you think about transitioning, you not only have to manage the actual transition process, which is incredibly cumbersome, but you also have to try to figure out what job you're going to get on the back end. And I actually believe that there's no better way for four service members to transition other than going back to school, you know, assuming that they've accrued their education benefits like the GI Bill, going back to school is a wonderful way for them to buy more time to really explore themselves and figure out what they want to do.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:59] So if you say if you're in the army long enough, they cover your MBA basically.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:17:03] Yeah, and it's really. And I'm like very passionate about this, especially not as much for officers, but for enlisted soldiers. I will always pick up the phone to speak with a veteran, and I speak with some enlisted soldiers who it's like once you've done your first three year contract, your initial three year contract, they have a hundred percent GI Bill, and so they get yellow ribbon. On top of that, which essentially means, you know, there are a ton of schools that are going to cover every cent on the dollar for your education. And there's really. I mean, that's such a good way, I mean, when you think about where these where these soldiers are coming from to some of them come from such disadvantaged areas and it's just such a wonderful benefit for them to really close the gap and be competitive in whatever industry they decide.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:55] Is there is there coverage of just tuition? So like if somebody was coming out and they had, do they give any sort of stipend for living as well? Like if the person really came from nothing they do?
MilitaryMonkey: [00:18:05] Yeah. So they'll give you yeah, they call it BHF, which is essentially a prorated housing allowance. And it is, you know, I can't speak more
positively about the GI Bill, the vocational rehab. For the anyone that has a disability
rating, it is. It is invaluable and I encourage every single veteran to maximize that benefit for their for themselves.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:35] So you're kind of coming out and at this point where we're, you know, you had done a couple, you're done a tour and you'd come back and then. You were doing more training in operations in your last stint, and that was, yeah, that was here.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:18:50] That was that was yeah, I was in the I was in the south. I was stationed in the south and then the I was I was an operations officer for a brigade and I was working all of the. Uh, you know, part of part of the brigade had been deployed, a small part of it, and then the rest was back home. And so I was basically managing all the training that was happening at home and then liaising with the. It was basically like some small contingent of the senior leadership that was over Afghanistan and ensuring that they were up to speed on what was going on.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:28] Got it. So at that, at what point during that kind of year where you like the NBA is happening? I guess probably right when you were starting it, right? Because you have to apply here early or whatever. Yeah, so I was investment banking on the radar at all. Did you even know what investment banking was or what did you do, people?
MilitaryMonkey: [00:19:50] My first priority was I was compartmentalizing hard, and it was just about like, let me do this next step first and make that happen. And I was
I didn't know what I wanted to wanted to do. I did feel like I needed some technical skills and I wanted to leave because as you get more senior in the military, you become further and further removed from the enlisted soldiers. And enlisted soldiers are the lifeblood of the military. I mean, they are the best people I've ever met in my life. I love them to death and and they deserve the world, in my opinion, and I didn't want to be in leadership roles where I was continuing to get further and further removed from them to the point where I wasn't even interacting with them on a daily basis.so I went decided to go to MIT because I felt like it had the strong technical pedigree, as well as just a strong MBA program. And all the vets that I was communicating with. All said, you know, just get into the best program that you can. And then from there, see what
MilitaryMonkey: [00:20:49] Types of jobs are being offered. So if you didn't know,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:53] If you didn't know what investment banking was recruiting happened so fast, tell me what it was like those first few months on campus. And like, was it like it was like, Uh oh. Or was it? How did you? How did you guys? Yeah, how did you kind of get up to speed and even survive these interviews? Yes, we started,
MilitaryMonkey: [00:21:12] You know, I think official on campus recruiting started October 1st.But when I got out of the military, I got out in in. I guess it was July when I got out, I spent a lot of time just trying to research what I wanted to get into. And I was leaning towards finance because a lot of veterans who I really respected were actually in finance. And so I was gauging industries based on who has the coolest veterans, in my opinion. And so these guys were in finance. I spoke with them for probably two months. And then when it came time for formal recruiting, I did a lot of exploration of different industries and I kept coming back to finance and doing that. Kind of just do you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:05] Look at like marketing, what else Corp. like more corp?
MilitaryMonkey: [00:22:10] I looked at, you know, with that with MIT, they're recruiting like big Tech recruits heavily from there, obviously. And.so I definitely explored that a little bit. I explored a lot of I was actually really interested in some of the consumer companies that were coming on campus as well. I didn't really do too much off campus recruiting. It wasn't until I really decided the industry where I started branching out a little bit more.But I use the on campus recruiting as a way to explore and just have coffee chats with these different companies. And so I didn't really have to buckle down until probably November. So I got a solid month of just back to back coffee Chats with those.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:55] Those coffee chats are actually helpful for someone like you who actually you're actually learning this coffee chats and you're not. It's not just a networking exercise for you
MilitaryMonkey: [00:23:03] Where you're trying to be honest, like, you know, I mean, the depth of those conversations. They were very superficial and it was, you know, please don'try to sell me on anything. Please just tell me what you do. Yeah. And it was challenging. You know, again, a lot of it I had to I made a lot of decisions based on did I
Feel like I clicked with the single Individual that was representing that company or not? And that was it was it was challenging, but it was the only way I knew how to get around it. And I think every veteran feels that challenge as well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:37] So tell me how things progress did you have, like a lot of first? So then the actual the coffee chats ended and the idea of the recruiting started and then tell me what happened with like you did on campus recruiting to just start dropping your resume? And then how many first round interviews do you have? Do you start striking out? Did you make it to final rounds on all of them? What was it like the hit rate and all that good stuff? Well, we talked about
MilitaryMonkey: [00:23:58] Humility earlier, so I'll just throw this out there. I and my girlfriend had to Live through this with me. I probably submitted my resume because you could just click a button up for on campus recruiting and it was and. And so I probably submitted my resume to may be 35 to 40 different places and it was like, Oh, this company is kind of cool. Like I've heard of them in the past, I never met them, but. And I submit the resume. And I got shut down so hard in the initial, you know, like, I guess, three to four weeks. I got shut down so hard because I had never gone to the coffee chats. I was always kind of leaning towards finance. And so these consumer companies,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:46] They just bought.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:24:48] Oh my goodness. I mean, I remember yeah, I remember one one job in particular. It was I saw it. It was for some, some job at Disney and I thought, Oh my God, Disney World is like my favorite place in the entire world. And they just it was like Within two days I got a rejection. And it's like, Well, I guess I'm not going to get a job for the rest of my life now. So but what I do want to say is in terms of the finance so recruiting for finance, I did have someone a mentor at a boutique firm who was a veteran. And I owe everything to him and he took me under his wing and he trained me on technicals. He gave me all the mock interviews that I could I could have needed. He gave me the very realistic down and dirty on banking as well, so I did not walk in. Uh, without understanding what I was getting into. So I owe a lot to him, I owe a lot to to my MBA program as well, but that was what
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:51] Did he tell you? Basically, it's going to be long nights. It's going to be really tough as an associate coming in there. Analysts won't respect you. They're just going to be annoyed by you. Like, what did he tell you?
MilitaryMonkey: [00:26:02] Essentially, yeah. Essentially, it's going to be the military. I mean, it was it was the exact same thing. You're going to work with people that have more experience than you, but you're expected to manage them. Mm hmm. And and you're going to work in an environment where. You know, a lot of things are in your control and you can follow the status quo or you can get creative and make it Innovative, and if you make it you can actually you can go to bed it at a reasonable hour. I to this day, I don't know why he did this for me, but he is, you know, he gave he gave me everything I absolutely could have needed to make the right decision.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:42] And so when you started getting, you did a lot of the coffee chats for the finance firm. So did you plan a lot of first round interviews or five or three or how many?
MilitaryMonkey:: [00:26:51] Yeah, I would say I would say I probably. I probably did. Um, five to six first round interviews. How many? Yeah, and then super
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:01] Days did you get to? Um, it would have been three,
MilitaryMonkey: [00:27:06] Three, three super days, pretty good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:08] The you can burn them all or you got one and said, that's it. I'm taking the offer. I knew that
MilitaryMonkey: [00:27:13] Once. Yeah, once I got that Bank, it
was it was a done deal and because that was my target from the get go. So I, you know, during the recruiting process, I was a little caught off guard by the variety of interviews that I had. Some were very behavioural, whereas others were like it was like a 30 minute case study on some complex merger. And obviously, those were the ones that I did not get a super named after. But it was focused on where you say the boutique banks were a little more technical than the bold brackets. One hundred percent. Yeah, one hundred percent, yeah. And it was like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:57] Every cause of the world, the molasses, those typekit.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:28:01] Exactly. And it just caught me off guard. You know,
Like everyone tries to tries to read the blogs and you try to get a feel for it. And I read some horror stories about those banks in their first rounds, and I I discounted it a lot and I shouldn't have. I just wasn't ready, frankly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:20] So it's tough to get ready without that technical background, you know? And they also recruit earlier.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:28:26] And so I didn't have I mean, two weeks makes a big difference in technical prep.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:31] Huge difference. Huge difference, especially. Yeah, the first interviews are always the worst read. Ok.Yeah.so you get the offer. You do the
Tell. Tell me a little bit about the difference between like the internship and the real job. So like you go in for as a summer associate at this bulge bracket bank, well respected. And you're like. It's a little bit of wine and dine, like there's some fun, there's some fun associated with it and going out, it must be great because it's a little bit of a continuation of like NBA your first year, like having some of that freedom that you hadn't tasted in a while. Tell me a little bit about like, did you get a sense? Like, I know you had a little bit of a warning, but did you get a sense of what the actual job would be like from those three months? I would say to a degree,
MilitaryMonkey: [00:29:19] Yes, and especially now that I've
Had My own interns, I see like I do see how they are, they're protected a little bit because it is, I mean, it's still a client relationship and it's kind of it's kind of rough saying, here's a temporary employee that's now covering your Account, and we don't really know much about them. They don't know anything about you. They haven't worked on your account at all. But I would say that my firm was very, very good about giving me autonomy wherever, wherever I felt like I could succeed, and they would push me to the point where it was, you know, I I was always challenged, but I was never overcome or overwhelmed. Um. And so, so the internship was great, I mean, there were a lot more social events over the summer too, and obviously we didn't have a pandemic going on, so it was great to interact with both the senior and junior bankers full time.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:22] I know about your progression with the analyst. Like your relationship, I know it sounds like you had the right, the right mindset of just trying to like learn from them first and then, yeah, yeah,
MilitaryMonkey: [00:30:34] Yeah, absolutely. The analyst, I still remember my number one connection. Uh, from day one of my internship was with a second year analyst at my firm. And he's incredibly experienced greater modeling, and I didn't even know what our deal was, but I knew that this company wanted to go public and I saw him in Excel, so I figured I might as well try to learn excel because I really had never used it before. And he was so patient with me. He took the time to really ensure that that I was understanding of everything that was going on. I also had a very positive and developmentally focused. Associate who held my hand and that was on the same team, so I was so lucky to get this, this associate and analyst pairing. And they showed me exactly they showed me like, this is what the job can be.
You're just not going to do it right now because no one you're an intern into it's, you know, it's on a tight deadline.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:47] And what about specifically once you started like that relationship with analysts and tell me about like the evolution
of that, like when you first like those first three to three months where you're kind of drinking from a fire hose, how you're trying to add value for other MBAs that are kind of going into this blind, going into banking and maybe they're in the military? Maybe not. Maybe they've done consulting for MBA or something and. They're kind of a little bit nervous. What do you what would you say is like the biggest shock?
MilitaryMonkey: [00:32:19] Um, and you're talking now, full time, full starting, full time, yeah, yeah. So, so the biggest again, my firm is very good at ramping you up, I think. Yeah, I was also my friend was very conscious of pairing me with. Senior associates and analysts who I had worked with during my Internship, which was huge. That is huge, and so I like having the pre-existing relationships. I was able to step foot into, you know, relatively new deals like, I mean, I didn't I wasn't aware of the client at all, but I had already formed a relationship and that was my goal during the internship is like, This is relationship building. This is not like, let me see how many deals I can close as an intern. Right? And so that was very helpful. But yeah, and the first three months I was drinking from a fire hose, I probably still a year and a half later and but I.
one hundred percent of the time I was focused on listening to the analyst, and it's with a
healthy amount of, you know, managerial ears, you know, like it's not like you're getting manipulated by the analysts so that everyone can go to bed it at eight p.m.. Yeah, but it's it's like you're listening to the analysts to really gauge what you know, what is there, what are they doing? How are they contributing to the team? How do they expect an associate to contribute to the team? And how do you manage down while also managing up as an associate, which is, you know, it's still in my, in my eyes, the most challenging thing to do.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:01] I think it's a brutal position for if you don't have
strong communication skills, it's like you get eaten alive in that job.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:34:08] And I think too many people, too many people, look up
and never look down, right? And so you're leaving your most valuable asset, which is your analyst. I mean, on every team, again, it's like the military. The enlisted soldiers are the lifeblood of the military. The analysts are really the lifeblood of investment banking and it's like you're leaving them behind. If you're if you're not willing to make sure that you're communicating up, how they should be what, what
they want and how they're how they can be managed better and you know, that kind of stuff. It goes a really long way.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:44] So do you think you're going to be a lifer? Right after M.D. partner, what do you know, one of those people are, you know, what's the
thought? I mean, it's been a year and a half. I'm sure you've worked long hours. Do you feel like you're like getting your feet under you finally, like you're feeling good, you got the reps and stuff.Yeah, I feel I feel very
MilitaryMonkey: [00:35:05] Confident in my role. Very confident in client communication, which seems to be some kind of threshold where people are allowed to advance. It's like once you can send an email to a client, you can go forward. Yeah, but like I feel, I do feel very comfortable in my position. You know, what I can say is. I every day is a little bit different. Every day presents new challenges. The last year since COVID, we've had more business than ever and it has been nonstop.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): : [00:35:40] I've heard associates are beginning just completely obliterated every single person I've talked to. That's an associate. It's like, I don't sleep like just, I mean, the analysts, I think everybody is just, you know, I'm seeing it in the forums a lot. It's just people are almost to almost it's getting really bad because you don't have the camaraderie as much, you know? Yeah, people aren't. That was the best part. Yeah, people aren't taking the time to be like, you know, while you're waiting
For a turn to bullshit with each other, it's like, you know, its right. It's tough, it's a little more lonely. I'm used to it. I've been doing this for a decade, working tromp home, so for other people can see it, it's tough. So before we call it, I think just I missed once part was just the transition from the internship to offer. Were you ever nervous that you were not going to get a return offer? And. I know it was I
MilitaryMonkey: [00:36:35] Was just nervous. So I didn't get an offer the last day of my internship, which I was expecting for 90 percent of my internship. And they just didn't give offers. The way they do it is they give offers, probably a week later. Yeah.
I was what we were very good about having these weekly check ins with our managers and they would say you're on track. So I wasn't caught off guard at all. But that week was gruesome. I mean, it was it was painful just sitting there and waiting to get a phone call. But, you know, when it came, I was incredibly happy. I essentially accepted on the spot. And yeah, it was kind of a no brainer. But yeah, it wasn't too nerve wracking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:25] Okay, that's good to hear. Yeah, I mean, I think for a lot of people, It can be, I mean, because it's not like one hundred Percent slam dunk, right? It's like 70 to 90 percent typically from what I've seen.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:37:36] I would say, I would say that's very accurate.
Yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:38] So it's a little nerve wracking because, you know, you don't get that. Imagine you imagine you don't get that and then you have to go back to recruiting.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:37:45] It's like, Yeah, and I can say, like the archetype of someone that doesn't get an offer is the person that. Berries are facing in some
model or some more extreme associated with a deal and doesn't take the time to look up and form relationships. I mean, this is this is all client relationships, it's all relationships in the office. That's why people are getting slammed right now because like, I don't talk to anyone all day outside of Zoom calls. Mm hmm. And so there always has to be a purpose for us to get on a Zoom call. So it is it's different. But relationships are everything in this game, and I think it should be highly, highly coveted as an intern, especially.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:28] Yeah, for sure. Anything else you'd like to share before we call it? Any final word to all of them?
MilitaryMonkey: [00:38:34] No, I mean, to any veteran out there, that's listening, though, I would say if you haven't, if you haven't given a lot of thought to finance, please do. And reach out to any veteran that you can find on LinkedIn that works in finance because they will give you a very candid perspective and they will they will hold your hand throughout the way because I wouldn't be here without the mentorship that I got.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:59] Awesome, I love it. Well, thanks so much for taking the time to share your wisdom.
MilitaryMonkey: [00:39:03] Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for having
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:05] Me. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis. And till next time.
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