WSO Podcast | E143: The Road to Venture Capital through Investment Banking
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In this episode, Sarah explains why she ended up at a non-target school, how her 4.0 GPA opened a lot of doors and how she ended up at a bulge bracket investment bank in New York. Learn how she dealt with private equity recruiting and when she realized that she was more interested in growth equity and the VC world. Finally, listen to how she got her big break and was able to make the jump, but only after 3 years in investment banking and an analyst to associate promotion.
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WSO Podcast (Episode 143) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me! As I talked to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into
different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, Sarah explains why she ended up at a non-target school, how her 4.0 GPA opened a lot of doors, and how she ended up at a bulge bracket investment bank in New York. Learn how she dealt with private equity recruiting and when she realized that she was more interested in growth, equity and the VC world. Finally, listen to how she finally got her big break was able to make the jump, but only after three years investment banking and an analyst to associate promotion enjoy. All right, Sara, thanks so much for joining the Wall Street Voices podcast. Of course,
Sarah: [00:01:02] Thanks for having me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:03] So it'd be great if you could just give the listeners a short summary of your bio. Sure.
Sarah: [00:01:09] So I came out of a non target public school, More of an engineering school. I was a finance major there came from a little bit of an untraditional background, so no parents in finance or anything, even corporate or business related, actually ended up my sophomore year getting pretty lucky and having an internship in kind of financial research. And that's where investment banking first kind of came across my radar. From that, I decided I was going to give it a shot didn't actually think I would have any success on that recruiting front. My school was not at all a feeder, even though it's it was a top public school. There was just zero Investment banking recruiting on campus.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:00] So just because it was like more engineering base and stuff, right?
Sarah: [00:02:03] Yeah, exactly. So it had all Of the top Companies looking for computer science and engineering majors. On the business Side, there was pretty much no formal support. Got it. So ended up honestly, just applying online. It was a huge fan of Wall Street Oasis. That's kind of where I learned everything to go through the process. Yeah, I mean, it was it was beyond a huge help. I was constantly on the forums just looking for all of the steps to take. I ended up trying to network reach out to people and really did not get much traction from that. We didn't have alums on Wall Street. And it was just it was difficult to kind of get that connection with people. So I ended up applying online and I went to kind of a big name bank, but a regional office. And I think that put me in a much smaller pool. So did my summer there and
then re recruited for full time and went to a bulge bracket,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:04] Right? Silencing my phones. So your stories,
So you basically. Have kind of a non-traditional Background, but tell me a little bit more
About let's go all the way back to undergrad and just start there and you know, you said you got lucky with this sophomore summer internship like finance research. Tell me a little bit like, how did you get lucky on that?
Sarah: [00:03:25] Yeah. Oh yeah. So so that internship was just kind of my first formal exposure to the world of business in general.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:34] Did you get through like networking? How did you get it?
Sarah: [00:03:36] No, I actually got that one through an on campus program. So it was it was through someone that wasn't even an alumni, but they wanted to
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:46] Even major in finance. So that did that internship kind of push you towards finance or major? No. Yeah.
Sarah: [00:03:52] So interestingly enough, my dad, who is not a business person at all, has always been obsessed with reading Barron's. And when I was a kid, he would take us to the bookstore and we would go off and read books and play with toys, and he would be reading Barron's. And so from a young age or like watching Bloomberg and so forth,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:12] Like to trader, he likes to.
Sarah: [00:04:14] Yeah, he his motto is buy low, sell high, which he thinks is novel. So from that, I was always interested in it. I loved my econ courses in high school and it just felt the most natural. But I did kind of dabble in doing computer science or engineering for a bit.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:32] So you knew kind of going into school that finances might be a thing. Yeah, OK. Why not go to like a finance school or like a public school of finance? You're still kind of dabbling. You're still thinking all engineering might be a good path.
Sarah: [00:04:46] Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I won't give too much away, but like it won't be hard to figure out what school I went to, but essentially, like in the place, I was
an in-state resident. They give full tuition scholarships and the school I went to
was like easily the number one there. So it wasn't much of my own choice, unfortunately. Yes, if that makes sense. Ok, so you're basically.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:11] So you kind of knew you had this interest in finance, you kind of do this. You said you dabbled in computer science. Did you dabble like freshman year? And you're like, Hell, no.
Sarah: [00:05:20] Yeah, yeah. I took the intro or I took a couple of classes and just realized, like, you look beside you and you realize that for these other people, coding is like a second language, like, it's so natural. And I realize those are the people I'm going to be competing with in interviews. Like, it's not natural to me. I'm forcing it like, but you said Met Office hours. Yeah, I did well, but doing well. I think there's a big difference between like really crushing yourself to do well in something and then doing well in something that's more natural. Yeah. You had to
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:53] Really, really work for it. Yes. Yeah. Ok, so then you thought maybe this finance thing sounds more interesting. I can buy low, sell
high like my dad. So, yes. So that's basically what you probably thought of. Finance is like more of the markets at that point. Did you know a lot about like investment banking or now? Yeah. So tell me how you so you did this financial research internship sophomore year. It was through a program for your school. Right? So not too lucky.
It sounds like they kind of teed it up for you a little bit. Or was it?
Sarah: [00:06:22] Yeah. No. So once I got there, it was more luck once I got there. It was interesting. They most of what I was doing was just kind of research to come up with, like original posts for the company. But they would send me it was in like a major financial center and they would let me go to these networking events that I had absolutely no business being at. And when you're a 20 Year old Kind of side by side with people that are like, well established in their financial careers, you really don't have anything in common or anything to contribute to them. So for me, I think the only thing we had to talk about was, Oh, what are you going to do after you graduate? And me being someone that was interested in business but didn't really know what I wanted to do? They were all like, Oh, well, you should do investment banking. And that was the first time I had even heard of this. And then I went online and I looked up salaries and I was like, Oh, I should do investment banking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:20] You didn't look up ours at the same time.
Sarah: [00:07:23] I mean, I think I think before you get there, I think every young person falls into the same trap. They just see the number and they're like, Oh, no, I would do anything for that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:31] It's fine, but I can work 100 hours and then you actually work it. And then you're like, Wow. Yeah. Bad.
Sarah: [00:07:37] Exactly. That's exactly how it went. Ok, so,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:40] So kind of exposed to the word, even investment banking, sophomore summer internship, you kind of going. So then you start kind of going to you go into junior year. What's the thought process like? Ok, finance all the way. Here we go. Are you thinking like recruit junior year and how did that go for summer internships?
Sarah: [00:07:58] Yeah. So that's what I was doing. I mean, it started off. Did you know the cycle?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:03] Did you know the cycle was like so early or anything?
Sarah: [00:08:06] No. I mean, I feel really fortunate now when I talk to people, I mean, how much the cycle has changed. It was still pretty normal. Yeah, I think I was doing this back in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen and it was I didn't get my internship until February or March, which is unheard of now, and this was on a topic. I have
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:27] A mentee. She's at Fordham and for the podcast called Monkey to millions to be do I Mentor basically three or four people at a time from like, Non-targeted or whatever, just nontraditional candidates. And she has already landed. Not just obviously she's just starting her or she's in her first semester. She has
Her summer sophomore lined up, But then, like the the junior summers are going to be in the spring. My sophomore year, so not even the summer.
Sarah: [00:08:55] I think back to that, and if I this is why I feel so lucky. I mean, just one of the reasons like if I was recruiting now, I would have missed that boat because they would have already recruited for junior year before I had even heard what investment
banking even was. So I feel for people going through it now. I think it's tough.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:13] Yeah. Well, I guess everyone's in the same boat, but it really hurts the kids. You just get exposed to it. Junior year, sophomore year? Yes, definitely. Anyways, so back to the back to your story. So you're you're kind of. You're not really too aware of what's going on, but are there any sort of like are you doing networking at this point, like at least you had some exposure to like having the network at this job, which it's actually sounds, that's probably the best skill set you developed, like over the summer, just talking to people at this conference?
Sarah: [00:09:39] Definitely. Yeah, definitely getting comfortable with that. But I was inherently, I think, social super shy, and I know I was shy. I'm like, I would call myself like an extroverted introvert at this point. But I think that came with time and getting confident through working. So at that point, I felt extremely uncomfortable reaching out to people that, like I didn't have some baseline commonality with and like I was a complete non target, nontraditional background. So I think there just wasn't much to kind of leap pad off of. So for me, that was the I did a little bit of that would get pretty discouraged, not getting responses. And then on my LinkedIn, I yeah. Linkedin. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:22] Excuse me, LinkedIn. Yeah, just for the listeners out there, their response rates probably around one to three percent if you're good.
Sarah: [00:10:28] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's angles to that that I've since learned and I love to give people advice on because I get contacted all the time through LinkedIn and I'll respond if it's a personalized message and I think I can do something, I'll always respond. If it's not just
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:46] Because I have to be a or can you give an example? Somebody who's no,
Sarah: [00:10:49] No, yeah, I, you know, funnily enough, almost every single person who has reached out to me is not an alum. Like I've had people from Ivy Leagues that went straight into basic roles reach out to me. But because they put something about, Oh, I'm currently in XYZ industry and I'm thinking about getting into venture capital. I saw your path and I'd love to talk to you about that. Like, if it's anything that just shows like you were so nice. Yeah, they read my profile and I can see like there being some relevance there. Like, I know that you can make that jump with the right advice. Like, sometimes I'll get people reach out to me and it's just like, I know there's nothing I can say to you that's going to get you a VC job, and that's not my preference, but it is what it is. And I just don't want to waste anyone's time. So that's a part of it, I think.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:37] All right, cool. So yeah, I mean, I think that is tough when you when you can't do something to help somebody, even though they want
to do you ever say like, just learn more or you got to start from ground zero or you just.
This usually you don't have time to respond to them.
Sarah: [00:11:52] No, I mean, I have responded and I'll give like, you know, as long as I was personalized, I'll almost always respond. And you know, a lot of times I just tell people like, maybe you, maybe you need to like, Find a top tier Start up role or you need to try to lateral to a top consulting firm or bank like I think sometimes people need to hear like the hard truth of like just how competitive this is because unfortunately it Is. It's I would call it maybe like I didn't get to this earlier, but like I'm in VC now, and it's probably the most elitist feel within finance, Which I never thought you could. You could get more so than investment banking and private equity. So that's been shocking for me. But yeah, I think I think sometimes you just have to like really just give people the honest truth that they might not get through different channels.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:48] Yeah, through our mentor. We always tell our mentors like, just be honest with them, like, don't sugarcoat because it's like, doesn't do them any good. Ok, so you're kind of coming into your junior year. Yes. And you are like this finance thing is, is this is it, I'm going to go investment banking. So what? So you're kind of you're sending some LinkedIn messages, getting discouraged. So how do you even get any interviews?
Sarah: [00:13:11] Yeah. So I I don't even know you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:15] Just get one. Did you just get one? And that was it.
Sarah: [00:13:17] No. So funnily enough, I when I was interviewing it was I just applied to every single bank online, got very few interviews, five, three first rounds. Yeah, I think first rounds, probably like four, maybe
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:35] Higher. You wasn't out yet. It was just real phone interviews.
Sarah: [00:13:38] Yeah, it was real phone interviews. Yeah. so, so one, I think my first one was really early on. I think with it was with a regional bank. And at that point I really hadn't done what I needed to do in terms of Prep. And I remember being asked Why do you want to do investment banking and talking about how much I loved investing so that that was a huge wake up call for me when I really got the door slam shut in my face. And then I kind of took a couple of months and just read through the rows and mom and pearl buck. And luckily, most of the big banks did interviews later on. And so I kind of
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:18] Knew burned too many bridges or blow up too many times.
Sarah: [00:14:20] No, thankfully. Thankfully I didn't. I chalk it up to an experience. I'm not too embarrassed anymore, but at that point it was. It was a real wake up call. But I think one thing I would say to people coming from a non target or a nontraditional background like, I think you have to do anything you can to stand out. And for me, that was just getting as high a GPA in undergrad as I could like, I knew I am from a non target school. There is nothing exceptional about my background, like I want my GPA to like, get picked up when they're doing that online like mass pool screen. Yeah, I want that to be picked up. I'm sure this is politically incorrect, but I'm sure gender might have something to do with getting in a smaller pool and being picked up by the online scrapers. But I think my GPA was really what got me in the door in those interview rooms, and otherwise I think I would have had no chance.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:24] Do you mind sharing your GPA?
Sarah: [00:15:26] Yeah, so so I had a 4.0, but that was that was very much a like I
realize almost every weekend. Yeah, you read in the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:35] Library, you realized on the non targets listening right now who have like a three TR like, Oh yeah, I'm sorry, I have no hope, don't it's not true. I've interviewed. No, not at all. Many of people from non targets with low, low GPAs, even under sub theory.
Sarah: [00:15:50] I think then it's just then. I think you really have to put in the legwork of networking. And I think I think the GPA enabled me to not necessarily have to do that, which I think for my personality and my confidence at that point
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:05] Was the doors opened more doors. It made you it got you on par with a lot more of the not necessarily an Ivy League, but it almost moved you to a semi target status where you actually got. Exactly, exactly. So, OK, so you're amazing GPA. So you're kind of going through you're getting at least a few first round interviews. Luckily, the first one you bombed was a local bank, so you're not too disappointed. So tell me a little bit about how you prepped, but then tell me about that second or third interview. Like, did you feel like you were ready or were like the technical questions pretty down the middle, like easy? Or did you? Did it still take a few more reps? I know for me, raw, I worked at Rothschild. Rothschild was like my one of my last interviews, and there's a reason I got the offer, like my last interviews because I was so much better compared to my first.
Sarah: [00:16:49] So, yeah, I had literally the exact same experience and ended up going to a very similar bank. So that was my last one. I think I didn't. I didn't do the interview until February, and that was after I had already gone through so many and kind of knew you were going to get asked the question. You're going to get asked the depreciation. And then I had gotten to practice it. But I think the key with the bank I ultimately got the offer from, and that was my one and only offer. So I got super lucky. But the interviewer, he was an associate and everything that I didn't get spot on right, like his style was to kind of like, really try to work through my reasoning on my
Answers to those questions versus just being like, I'm digging you because you're wrong. And that, I think was really unique to the group that I ended up in. So I certainly was not perfect on the technicals, even when I interviewed and got the role. But I think it was also it was a combination of that. And just like really reading up on the industry that the group I was interviewing for cover and like being knowledge. Also was kind of like a perfect, perfect storm of all of these different factors that contributed to the offer versus being one hundred percent
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:07] On technicals for a summer analyst basically offer for. Yes. And so it was at in New York and the big city.
Sarah: [00:18:15] It was not. So it was a regional office regional.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:17] Ok, so you go to a regional office. Were you thinking at this point like, Oh, I'd rather be up in New York? Or like, what was your thought process of going to regional? You're just happy you got an offer.
Sarah: [00:18:25] Yeah, honestly, I was so happy. I got an offer. I had kind of the city I went to school in, like I had grown up there my whole life. I wanted to go to a big, major city and this was a major city, not necessarily for finance, but it was an awesome city. So for me, it was all about like name of the bank, what's the experience? And then I just don't want to be in my home City and I wasn't I really wasn't thinking about. I want to be in New York. I ended up going to New York the following year for full time, but that was more just a result of where I thought I could get a better experience, bank wise, for sure.
So let's talk about
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:02] A little bit about the summer internship and just how you survived and what was it like? Was it more like a wining and dining selling you? Or was it like you're working 80 100 hour weeks and like, Good luck surviving. What
Sarah: [00:19:14] Would you say? Yeah, it was not. So it was a tiny office. Unfortunately, the associate that had interviewed me and I was really excited to work with. He ended up leaving right before I joined. So I kind of was like under the supervision of just an analyst who was kind of also on his way out. So it was it was a pretty brutal summer, no real mentorship, no real training at all. I had no Idea what I was doing like I always think back to I didn't even know, like Control X, like I literally just knew nothing. So it was really brutal. The hours were rough. They wouldn't let me touch models. So it was just a ton of processing and I didn't really feel like I was learning what the people were great.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:00] Were you working long hours, then, just because you're so slow at stuff?
Sarah: [00:20:05] Yeah, I was super slow, but they also just kind of, yeah, they gave me a lot.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:11] Do you think a lot of that was like work that needed to be done like four pitches and stuff? Or was it just to like, test you?
Sarah: [00:20:18] I think it was a combination of both. I think I think it was work that needed to be done. There were many times where the analysts would leave like early and I remember staying in the office and one of the VP's calls, and he was like, What are you like? I can't believe you're here and your analyst is not like, this is ridiculous. So it was a weird it was a weird summer, but it was a good, I think, exposure to kind of like the politics and the our expectations that come with banking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:46] And tell me a little bit about, did you get do you get a return offer? What was the thought process and tell me about like, was it exploding? Did you have time to shop it like going into your senior year or what that whole process? I think it's a little tricky nowadays because it happens so early.
Sarah: [00:21:01] Yeah, yeah. So I did get a return offer. I think It was It was a bigger signing bonus that exploded. But then you could let that expire and then take. So I think I probably had like maybe until September. So is enough time to shop it. I kind of started to set up networking goals. Did you not want to go my summer? Did you not
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:22] Want to go to like such a small? Once you had tasted that you were thinking bigger place might be better?
Sarah: [00:21:27] Yeah. So I think it was a combination of a couple things. I was very much considering going back because they were really like picking up the phone, saying You should come like you end it and you forget about all the bad things.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:43] Is this similar? Is this in the regional office they wanted? Yes. Ok. Yes. Okay. Yeah.
Sarah: [00:21:49] But I think for me, I just felt kind of like I was flailing and left on my own that summer. And I now, in retrospect realize, like, yeah, like I went to a bulge bracket for full time. And even if I wasn't getting training from people that were above me, I was never alone in the office. Like there was always someone. If I my first time having a model rough out because of circularity, like there's an analyst right behind me that has done this a billion times for two years that I can go to and at this bank, there
Just wasn't like it was me alone all the time, and I just knew that was going to be a cap on what I could learn. So that was the main motivator, and the industry focus] Wasn't necessarily What I wanted to spend my career, and it was very specialized. And I knew like for someone that wanted to do tech. Eventually, there was literally no overlap.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:43] So why do I tech eventually? What kind of why were you thinking tech eventually?
Sarah: [00:22:49] Yes, I mean, just personal interest. I mean, I think it's one of the few things like, do you think
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:54] You initially did you think VC eventually like was that we were thinking?
Sarah: [00:22:56] No, no. I had no idea what this even was.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:00] You were like, maybe a startup. You're maybe like, go to a startup, something like that.
Sarah: [00:23:03] Yeah. To be honest with you, I mean, I think I before my internship, I thought, Oh, if I get into investment banking, why would anyone ever leave here empty salaries? And then you do it and you're like, Oh my God, I get why everyone would leave. But no, I wasn't even thinking that far ahead. I was just like, I think I like tech, and
It's a lot easier to work 100 hours when you don't hate it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:24] I don't think most twenty one year olds are thinking that far ahead anyway. So that's fine. That's normal. So no offense to the listeners, all my monkeys that are that are under 20. So in terms of just now you have that offer in your pocket, you kind of let the super high signing bonus what was like twenty thousand if you signed now or in ten thousand if you sign later kind
Sarah: [00:23:46] Of thing. I think so.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:48] Yeah, OK, something like that. So you let it expire. So you kind of like, OK, now I can kind of look at my options. I can shop the shop the offer a little bit. Tell me how you went about that process because you still don't have on campus recruiting to fall back on.
Sarah: [00:24:00] Yep. None at all. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:02] So is it you? You had just started saying sorry, you were setting up some networking calls. So was this like in like the late summer like August where you started kind of reaching out? Was it people in the regional city? Was it people in New York? Like, how did you approach it,
Sarah: [00:24:15] Like the filter? So I think I think it was July, and I really just looked for advice on Wall Street oasis of people that had done the same thing. It was particularly tough for me because I wasn't in New York. I think that that full time lateral recruiting
happens only at like some of the biggest banks and the biggest groups, because that's the kind of the sources that that get the recruiter emails. So I missed out on that. I think I started a little late. I just went to LinkedIn and reached out to people that had also made a transition between their junior summer and full time and just kind of reached out asking for advice. To be honest, like had limited success with it, like people actually got on the phone. So that was great, but just kind of heard the constant of like, Oh yeah, I'll put you in touch with HR. And sometimes they did, but then nothing would come out of it because many of those slots were filled.
how many calls? Oh, I probably did around 10.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:16] Yeah. And you felt like you were. Even in July or August, when you were doing this.
Sarah: [00:25:20] Yeah, I think it felt a little late and it just kind of felt like I think these spots are reserved for people laterally from other bulge bracket banks. It felt like people going from, I don't know, like Barclays to evercore versus my regional office, even though it was a great bank to evercore kind of thing.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:42] Got it. Got it. Ok. You just got that sense because it wasn't like they weren't jumping up and down to, like, get you an interview or anything like that or.
Sarah: [00:25:49] Yeah, I mean, you're just kind of given the runaround a lot of times. Like, if I would talk to someone, it's funny. I actually talk to a guy that was in my same regional office who ended up making the same move four fold. He got the return and then for full time, he moved to a bulge bracket bank in New York. And even he was saying, he's like, I don't know how recruiting works at my firm, like it's a black box. And now having worked at a bulge bracket myself, I can totally say the same thing. It is like,
It's like if you're not at one of these target schools, like, it's all kind of this weird black box that like, I had no idea how to get someone an interview and I was an associate at one point. Like, it's just a weird process with all of that bureaucracy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:34] Yeah. So tell me a little bit about how you did end up making that transition you had. Was the offer like key to like you needed that offer in hand to kind of make to get that that other offer? Do you feel like or was it?
Sarah: [00:26:46] I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think it would be really, really tough without it. I mean, I had a friend that that worked at Goldman Investment Banking over the summer didn't get a return offer and then ended up going to a really small middle market bank like a name you would know, but like, definitely not what you would want to be doing after spending a summer at Goldman. So it's tough. It's so it's just so tough. I think people see it as a red flag, even though it's absolutely not necessarily. But for me, I ended up getting it through an online application again, which is insane. But I think it goes to what a smaller pool you're in. Once you have investment banking already on your your resume, As well as just probably the GPA thing again and ended up having my first, my
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:35] First of September.
Sarah: [00:27:38] Yeah. So yeah, so it was funny. I had my first round interview actually on my last day of my internship and I was like, Oh God, I'm going to have to figure out when I can like, duck away from this and not be suspicious because I hadn't gotten the offer yet. Like, they didn't tell me until literally that afternoon, right? So it was it was nerve wracking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:59] So you were on your last day of your internship, you have a first round interview at another bank and you're like waiting to see if you can get a return offer from the first place. So how did how did you do? You just ducked out for the morning or something like that. I came back and they told you in afternoon, your
Sarah: [00:28:13] You got the offer. Yeah, I think so.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:15] I mean, so how did it proceed from there? I guess you were already in the process with the other belt brackets. So it was OK. You had plenty of time.
Sarah: [00:28:22] Yeah. So they did it. They I would say full time was way more streamlined than summer. So it was literally that first round. And then it was like a super date, you know, and people flew out. So it was very quick
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:35] About the Super Day, which it's stressful. Did you feel like? Ready this time.
Sarah: [00:28:40] Yeah, I mean, I felt a lot more ready, I think you're always nervous about what you don't know. So I was very nervous that it was going to come up like, Oh, what kind of modeling did you do? And they wouldn't let me touch a model. So I didn't have good experience there. But it was actually great. Like, the thing I would say about a bulge bracket is you're getting interviewed by people from all types of groups, so you might have one. That's a technical interview with someone in M&A, but like the rest, are mainly behavioral and really trying to understand your motivation for switching. And I think my story just made a ton of sense. And surprisingly, a lot of people at the Super Day next to me, like did not do investment banking that summer. So I kind of had a good, good feeling that that it was pretty likely I'd get the offer.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:25] So you did. So you were. Were you excited or are you just like, you're like, I can party my senior year. Not worry. What was the thought process like? That's it. I did it kind of thing.
Sarah: [00:29:36] Yeah, I mean, I honestly thought probably August for the before.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:40] Oh, after knowing you have an offer your senior year.
Sarah: [00:29:43] Wow. Well, I saved. I saved my easiest funniest classes for senior year, which I recommend everyone do. But no, it was awesome. I when I was interviewing actually in August at different banks, I remember I interviewed at one that was like super technical interviews, and I remember thinking before, like God, you already have an offer. Why are you doing that? Like, I really didn't want to do it anymore. So it was such a relief when I got it and could just relax. Senior year was definitely the funniest time of my life to do.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:15] Okay, fair. So you're kind of have that offer you had you had the obviously the internship, then you get the bulge bracket offer in New York, you take it, you have a long run at that firm. So I'm looking here you are an analyst for almost two and over two and a half years and then an associate for half a year. Yeah. So yeah, it's
Sarah: [00:30:37] Much longer than I thought.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:39] It's over three years.
Sarah: [00:30:41] Yeah, it's like 30 in investment banking.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:43] Yeah. Tell me a little bit about just the progression as an analyst. Did you feel like you still you probably still had you went through training, but you still had a lot of the, you know, get up to speed on the modeling and stuff like that? Yeah.
Sarah: [00:30:54] Yeah, I mean, I definitely felt compared to my peers like I felt behind a training like I felt like I just didn't have the technical skill set that some people clearly just naturally did. And training just ran through so fast. The things that I felt were important, like particularly accounting. And when you get to the actual DCF elbow, like those things, they would take like a day and then for weird culture things, they would take a week. So I definitely was horrified going in. But it ended up working out well, just being in such a large class with so many analysts next to me like. There we leaned on each other all the time, and there was so much support at the Junior level, so that's really why I stayed, I think so long.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:42] Yeah, so you did a couple of years, was there ever when did like VC come the radar, whether he thought, I know so many people are like private equity, private equity, that's like the natural jump. Tell me about it. Sounds like you didn't get caught up in that, like, especially first or second year and they did. Or you did. Okay, tell
Sarah: [00:31:59] Me. I mean, it's impossible not to add a bulge bracket like because everyone is so you feel like that's the promised land and that's what you have to do. And if you're not doing it, you're like, Oh, are people judging me? Like, you just fall into that trap so easily. So I ended up doing. I always knew, like I never wanted to go to like a mega fight. Like, I knew I wouldn't be successful there, but I was interviewing more for like middle market PE. And I remember getting passed like a couple of rounds, getting a case study for one. And I remember it was a SIM and it was about like medical devices, and I was just so bored out of my mind, even trying to read it. And I was like, OK, you can't even pretend you like this for a weekend to do this case study. Why are you trying to do this for two or three years as a career? And after that, I was like, OK, I need to just stop get more exposure to different kinds of deals to really think about, like what do I want to do next? Or more? Honestly, like, not necessarily. What do I love, but what do I not hate? Like that case study and then kind of took the next six months or a year or maybe even and just got on more types of transactions just to get more exposure?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:14] And then so when did kind of VC come on the radar?
Sarah: [00:33:18] Yeah, I don't remember exactly. I think it was. I think it when I was,
I was lucky enough to do a leveraged financing transaction in a software space, and that was when I kind of realized like, Wow, I really like this. I like I like the mix of quantitative there still being a model with the qualitative like going over competitive landscape industry research. Like, I thought it was a really nice blend. And I think from that, I kind of it kind of became clear to me that I should just be looking at like growth equity VC and just see what hits because I think that's what I'm going to enjoy and actually have a chance at, like sticking through versus just doing a two year stint again and then trying to go to business school and then trying to figure out what I want to do. Yeah. So I ended up deciding after that transaction I think that I was going to specifically
recruit for VC and growth.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:15] And so how did you approach that rent? You reached out to recruiters. I mean, at this point, you had you had been promoted to associate correct from the straight analyst to associate
Sarah: [00:34:23] Or you're about to at this point? Yeah, this one, I was still an analyst. It was probably like 16 months in. Yeah. So sometimes second year, OK?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:32] And so you're you do get the associate promote, are they are they trying to like and they have a huge, you know, banks in general have a huge attrition problem across the board at that exact level from like the second year analysts piecing out early to the associates leaving was there like a hard court press to keep you when they found out? Or was it too late where you like out the door? Like, I got an offer by
Sarah: [00:34:55] Like, Yeah, I mean, I remember going into my MDS office and he knew what it was like because I would never go into his office. He wasn't like an open door kind of guy. Yeah. And he was just like, now, like, he's like, No, don't we can't talk. I think there was a little bit, but like, I don't know, It's all about like MDS and who you're close with, like MDS that I was close with and who were mentors were super excited about it and really encouraged me to do it. I think anyone encouraging you not to is worried about their own numbers because they get judged on attrition, but it wasn't a big deal, but I was never. I was. I was dead set on leaving. It wasn't one of those things where I was going to stay in banking for longer
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:43] Yeah. So tell me a little bit about just how you prepped for like venture capital or growth equity interviews. Is it different from like the private equity stuff or were you still looking at like I need to? I need to look at these investments as like a principal investor. I need to look at it as like as did you like look at IRR tables and CDL, you know, LBO models at all. Did you? Yeah. Or was it more like, let me learn the VC landscape more and read more like TechCrunch. What were you doing?
Sarah: [00:36:08] Yeah. So I would say it's really a spectrum, which is what makes it so difficult. So if you're looking at like a pure growth equity role, I would say it's pretty similar to private equity. So there would almost always be an LBO modeling test that wouldn't be take home like it would be sitting or recruiter's office. So you kind of have to already have that same like private equity skill set to do well in those interviews. And that was the most important thing. Honestly, it was. Having your technicals down and then your story for why this especially over private equity, because they're really on the lookout for people that like. Want to be doing private equity versus people that just kind of like, oh, this is close enough and they could get the interview like they want people that specifically want to do growth. And then VC is. I DC is so mystifying, like I really struggled interviewing because those interviews, how did you
learn anything? Yeah, how did you even start
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:07] Getting the interviews and how did you even get out of the office? Yeah.
Sarah: [00:37:11] So it was I mean, that part was brutal, like my group was not recruiting friendly. I mean, it totally varied by group. But like my group, My group had just was not ok with people leaving. So that was tough. I mean, I kind of became known as someone that was always recruiting because I was just always on so many calls. And luckily, I was like a good performer. So it's not like they were going to fire me. But it can be a real issue if you're letting your work slip. Yeah. So I. I'm sorry your question was, how did I kind of get started?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:51] Yeah, like, how did you even yeah. So it sounds like it was kind of out in the open that you were recruiting, so it's a little bit easier. So that kind of answers part of my question. The other question is just how did you so you were able to step out? You don't have to be like, I had a doctor's appointment, another doctor's appointment. I have a dentist appointment and someone sick. You know, you did a little bit of that, probably, but there was also a little bit of that.
Sarah: [00:38:10] Yeah, I mean, I was like the kind. I mean, obviously, you can't do this anymore in times of COVID, but like I was the type where it's like I would come into the office if I was dead sick because I needed to save that sick day for when I had to fly Out because almost all my Interviews were on the West Coast. So if I had a Super Day like, I had to have not been sick before that. So that was the tricky part of the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:33] Flu. Like the flu, you're like,
Sarah: [00:38:35] Yeah, I'm in the bathroom here. It was bad. You can't do that anymore, but it was awful because it's still like they knew I was recruiting, but it wasn't OK. So it's still this weird middle ground. And like, I think at that point, Like any bulge bracket is hyper political. So you're always going to have people looking for something to like kind of rag on you for. And I knew that this was an easy one for me, so I always tried to balance that. But in terms of the actual prep or like even getting the opportunities, I tried to go through recruiters. To be honest, I found them pretty worthless for venture capital. I've heard Glow Cap is great. They would never look. Let me look at anything that wasn't in my specific industry, which was really frustrating because I wanted to do generalist Software VC. I think it might be different. If you're at like Goldman TMT, maybe you have a ton of recruiters reaching out to you and they're showing you everything. Yeah. But for me, unfortunately, it wasn't the case. So I ended up using a website that I found on Google. That's kind of like the holy grail for VC job opportunities. And just yet again. Yeah, it's called John Gannon blog, I think. Dot com.
Yeah, it's awesome. It's truly incredible. It's how I ended up getting my job yet again, just applying online, which is crazy. Yeah. And honestly, I would say my VC recruiting experience was just trial and error. Like did so poorly on all of the initial interviews, but that's how I learned. I mean, I just didn't really know what they were looking for, and I think,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:14] But did you know what they were? Did you know enough about the industry? The reason I asked this little selfish because we're releasing or we're just by the time this airs, it will have been released a venture capital course. So I'm curious if we'll have a section on recruiting, but I'm curious if like just having the general industry knowledge and how things work, how different rounds work, would that have been helpful for you or like that doesn't even matter. It's just more like fit and tell me about the space. Tell me about the specific tell me, like what it was like, You know, like what really mattered to wow them.
Sarah: [00:40:46] I would say it's a little bit more of the latter. I think you would differentiate yourself if you could talk intelligently about the former. But I would say I would say the most important thing, and this is the trap that I certainly fell into and I see other people falling into with tech B.S. all the time is people want to get into it because they think it's cool and they think it's interesting. And you're thinking about investments from the perspective of, Oh well, I like using this. The user gets cool. Yeah, yeah, the user vs. am I going to make any money on this? Like, how's the go to market? How do you sell this? Who are the potential acquirers? So it's much more like the best advice I ever got was from someone that used to work in my group and then went to a really large growth equity firm. And it sounds so simple, but he was like, you have to think like an investor, like everything you say needs to come from an investor perspective versus a consumer perspective. And that for me, it was a real wake up call like, Wow, I've totally been falling into that trap, and that's why I'm not getting traction.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:48] Yeah, if you're like tick tock, it's so fun. Like, you're done.
Sarah: [00:41:51] Yeah, you're done, you're done. And everyone's using that and everyone's going to TechCrunch and like you're saying those investments and like,
You're competing with people that have worked in Silicon Valley for years and have parents that are VCs like you just have to really take a view on something. And that's the other component is like having your own internal thesis on a space and a market.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:15] Are you being really on how you prepped for that? Like what? So you kind of got that advice and kind of like, open your eyes that this is why I'm not getting traction. So you kind of, yeah, this is really interesting. So like then what did you do? So like, instead of just reading the headlines on TechCrunch, you really started digging a little bit like specifically into software, into certain niche within the software. You're like going to learn this niche really well, and then I'm going to pitch something. Or how did you approach it?
Sarah: [00:42:38] Yeah, yeah, I would say that's a pretty accurate representation of it. So you kind of learn. I mean, after each interview, I would go, I had this master word doc that I kept. On my work computer, that was just all of the questions I was getting asked and there were pretty similar themes. So it was always like, tell me about the technology Or space that you're particularly excited about right now. And then from that, I would kind of pick something that was very much on the software, not consumer side. So it didn't look like I was one of these. I think people just fall into this trap all the time of like just looking at the Facebooks and the Tic talks, which is just one
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:16] I don't want to be a fanboy type of.
Sarah: [00:43:18] Yeah, exactly, which is tough because we all are honestly. But yeah, so I would find I would try to find things. I think like, I subscribe to this newsletter, it's called Axios pro rata. That's a very big in B.C. and you'll get from that. You'll see,
Like all these Series A C, Series B rounds, and these are companies that aren't necessarily making it to TechCrunch. And from there, you'll kind of find one just from the little description that sounds really interesting and cool. And then you kind of decide like, OK, this is something that I'm actually interested in. There's a lot of kind of available content online, so people other investment firms will have already written a thesis on Medium, but it's not necessarily something that the everyday consumer knows about. Yeah, that's a really great way. Yeah, yeah, there's not that much out there, so it's a great way to differentiate yourself. And I don't even think like I got too caught up when I was interviewing and like trying, thinking that I had to know everything like I was interviewing, mainly for generalist roles. So it's like, Oh, I should know everything about the fintech ecosystem and industrials and horizontal software, but really like picking one thing and becoming an expert in it, I think, is how you really differentiate yourself because you just seem so well-informed and well-spoken versus just knowing a little bit about a lot of things.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:41] Yes, a lot of it's like kind of doing that, that research, getting subscribed to like those newsletters like that, that maybe kind of are. Have a little bit more like under the radar, there's another there's another newsletter called Like Trends or Hustle from the Hustle or something like that's similar, I think.
Sarah: [00:44:56] Yeah, there's quite a few now. Yeah, there's makes a huge difference.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:00] So you can probably get some of these smaller Series, like you said, even there's probably even something out there talking about like companies that are getting like Angel.
Sarah: [00:45:10] Totally. Yeah. And honestly, Like at that point, there's nothing better than Google, like it really was for me, so much more useful than anything else. But I really wished that there had been a resource like because I downloaded the guide when you guys did that, and that was super helpful, even though I didn't pursue it. And B C, there's nothing like that. So you really are dependent on hearing from people that have already done it. Yeah, but I still think,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:38] You know, it's not getting a VC course like even from us, from anyone. It's still not complete in terms of your preparation that you have to do the totally you have to do the research, you have to decide on that niche and kind of dive in.
Sarah: [00:45:50] Yes. And I think that's probably a big part of why it's difficult not coming from a TMT group at a bank or at a consulting firm not just specializing in tech. It's pretty difficult to make that move because those people are at least getting some of the software APIs in their day to day that others aren't necessarily.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:12] So how did you end up actually doing it? How did you end up getting an offer? I mean, it sounds like it's almost impossible. Yeah, it
Sarah: [00:46:19] Is. It's super brutal.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:21] So you were you were flying with co. You were flying once because how many times did you fly out here? Like three?
Sarah: [00:46:28] Probably like four or five, I think I did a lie in so many places, and honestly, I spent a lot of time interviewing at places that like I don't think I would have left my job for because they just they weren't really what I was looking for. And in retrospect, I regret it was good practice, but in retrospect, it wasn't worth the energy. But yeah, so I ended up getting it. This was literally, I don't know, probably a year and a half into looking. So it really goes to show how important practice is ended up getting an interview at this firm. I applied for a different office like six months earlier, didn't even get a first round. They put something on LinkedIn again that they were hiring for one of their other offices applied again. Didn't think I'd get a first round, Got a first round. It ended up
Being that even though this was a generalist role, the main hiring team for this worked in the industry that my banking group was focused In. And so they really liked that I had that that exposure and would be able to kind of instantly walk in to memos on their space. And so that was what that first conversation was really centered on. And then
my Super Day. So we did a case study and that was it was actually about like venture math and so would have been really helpful to have a guide for that. It was brutal.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:57] And the term she had, like we deep dive on term sheets, deep dive on your math and all that good stuff.
Sarah: [00:48:03] That that sounds amazing would have helped me a lot. I struggled through that, but usually there were enough resources. You didn't. Yeah, there were enough resources online that you can. There's so many blog posts that you can piece it together. Exactly, yeah. So I ended up doing that. And then I think I think the key with the Super Day was just like. Being able to speak about multiple things and like take a strong view, like I think I just been listening to so many podcasts and I had really formed my own internal thesis on a couple of different spaces and why I thought they made viable investment opportunities versus talking about things I liked
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:46] About privacy.
Sarah: [00:48:47] Yeah, there's one. I love that I'm spacing on the name. It's I think it's like the road on traveled something like that
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:56] Road less travelled, something like
Sarah: [00:48:57] That. Road less traveled. Yeah. I think anything you can find from just like pure software investors, I think is so helpful because there's just common KPIs and benchmarks that you're really expected to know and be able to speak about. So anything you can find on that, I think, is just a huge resource. Cool.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:19] So. Anything else? It's kind of a. I think a great success story. I mean, obviously, you worked really hard in undergrad to kind of open up some doors. But tell me a little bit like anything else you want to share, like so you're you're here. Um, tell me about, oh, I forgot to ask you up, hey, let's talk about pay. Yeah. So because I know pay as an associate at a bullet bracket, it's usually pretty good. Yeah, what? One, twenty five or one fifty base, something like that. And then,
Sarah: [00:49:48] Yeah, it's one fifty now. Yeah, that was tough.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:51] Yeah, one hundred fifty base. And then the bonus can be at least that big. Yeah. So tell me about the big pay cut
Sarah: [00:49:59] You're going to make me cry of. It was it was rough now. I mean, the first offer I got in B.C., actually, I turned it down solely because the pay was like just unfathomably low. I'm talking like it was. It was like eighty five or something like that. It was like a hundred all in which is just, You can't live in San Francisco on one hundred k and not be not.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:24] You can not like kind of hate your life after
Sarah: [00:50:28] After making like three hundred. That's a pretty, pretty brutal move to me. So the pay in B.C. is definitely lower. I think the closer you get to growth, the further you get to like middle market private equity. So fortunately, I'm more on that side of the spectrum. So I would I would say we're pretty comparable to middle market Private equity, and that's something that it's like I can live with.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:55] It's just like being on the base, but it's and then it's your bonus can still be pretty good in terms of.
Sarah: [00:51:01] Yeah, I think I think max turbo, I mean, everyone does it differently. But like I think at most firms, if you're like on the growth side, it depends on if you're at like a top tier name, maybe you're making like two 50 max. Most people make below that. So it is it's a pretty big cut. Yeah, but there's a lot your upside is much higher in the long run if this is what you want to do.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:27] So that's how I thought about it. Are you able to share anything about like how people should think about, carry and fund and like economics coming into a fund? Like when you were looking at these, these VCs where you very like diligent about like, I want to make sure they're on their second fund, I don't want to go to a new fund. I want to make sure that they have a lot of dry powder left like, what were you? Were you smart enough about the whole industry to think about that stuff? I mean, you were recruiting for a year and not you weren't coming on.
Sarah: [00:51:54] No, because I think like this is just so competitive. You're just like into you literally want anything. Yeah, and there's so there's so much capital right now going into new funds that I definitely, in retrospect, absolutely like. If I made a Lateral move, absolutely. I would do a ton of research on that side and diligence just in terms of the people on the partnership and track record x y z. But when you're getting your first job like you really do need to take what you get. Unfortunately, because it's very rare to get multiple offers like I took a huge risk turning down my first one. Yeah, and I got really lucky. But yeah, I mean, most typically at the associate, even senior associate level, it's just not normal to get Carrie. Unfortunately, above that, it is pretty market standard. How long do you have
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:44] To work through? You know, coming in as an associate up to senior associate? And then what is the principal level they call it or something?
Sarah: [00:52:50] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:51] So in principle, start getting a little career. But how long is it like four years at a three year run? What is it? Or just whenever the next fundraise is whenever the next fund comes in? Kind of thing?
Sarah: [00:53:00] Yeah, I'm not sure on that one because I'm so far from that, but I typically from associate. It will be anywhere from three to four years. Most funds don't promote directly. Honestly, I think really small firms to the earlier stage you are, they would promote directly. But most places it's two to three and out like go to an operating role or a portfolio company senior associate. Similar timeline, probably more like three years.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:28] Think is out in the cards for you. Like I'm going to get some operations experience and then head back.
Sarah: [00:53:33] Yeah, and that was that was going to be what I was going to talk about. If you asked if there was anything else like, Yeah, I think there are so many ways into this industry, and I feel it now just coming from a solely financial background like. I think you really lack a lot of the rich context that makes you a great senior investor when you don't have operating experience, and I think founders don't necessarily feel like you've been in their shoes and can relate to them. So it's absolutely something I see not as like, Oh, I have to leave. I want to go get that experience because I think in this industry, like it's different from the buy side, like it's not about your resume in terms of bullet points, it's about like, what is your experience and how are we going to use that to contribute to making great decisions? And what are you bringing over someone else? And it's hard to compete without that, I think.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:26] Yeah, no, that's fair. Are you? Have you thought about specifically like the type of portfolio company you'd go work for, startup or tech or software companies? Is it something where, like, what role would you play as a former banker? I assume like M&A, like you'd have to be at a later Stage company, right? Yeah.
Sarah: [00:54:44] Yeah. So that's I mean, that's a little bit challenging, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:47] Like, are you going to go like, go to the under the CFO and like, help him like read you build all his like operations
Sarah: [00:54:52] Like that sounds beautiful. And that's really a useful experience, right? Because then you're just you're building on the same financial side that you've kind of already been working on. And I don't think that's necessarily what entrepreneurs need later on. So I think I think from a financial background or a non-technical background, you kind of go more on the business side. So like business operations, sales operations, so understanding the go to market, how the sales team is built, like how quotas are set, how you actually get people to deliver on quotas, things that are really about like that go to market motion. And how do you scale a good idea into a great company that's often what differentiates so many of these companies are in the same space and it's all about execution. So it's more roles that kind of give you that sense versus something broader.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:41] Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. You feel
Sarah: [00:55:43] Like knowing they finance,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:45] Knowing that that's kind of where you're headed. Do you feel like the banking background is the best place for you to be to to become a Vc and an operator? Or do you feel like you would have been better off going to like management consulting?
Sarah: [00:55:56] I think for I think for what I'm in, like later stage B.C. growth investing, definitely banking like it's really difficult to do that without the banking and the modeling experience. I think if you want more doors open for you on the operating side. Definitely consulting like there are so many roles I could apply for, but they all want Like four Years of they do. Yeah, but that's the problem, right? Like, they kind of only want McKinsey, BCG, Bain, which in banking you don't have that if you were at a big there's like, what, 15 great big names that you can go to that people see is the same. And in consulting, they really want those three. So I don't know. I have zero regrets, but I think you can't go wrong with either one of them. But if you want to do later stage, I think banking is always the better choice.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:46] Later stage, maybe more like growth equity LBO side, remember?
Sarah: [00:56:49] Yeah, yeah. I mean, in VC, there's a spectrum. So even not on the CD type. Yes, they really want people that can model. And I've seen firsthand people that come from the consulting background like it's tough. Yeah, it's you can get there, but it's like
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:07] You with the it's you with the referee is the first year analysed. They're like deer in the headlights, like, oh,
Sarah: [00:57:13] They can't get data tables to work and like, that's totally fair, but you don't want to be doing that when you're twenty seven, you know? Sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:21] Well, well. Thank you for taking all the time and sharing all your wisdom and your story, any kind of other words of advice for the younger listeners in terms of as they're kind of coming out of undergrad, maybe there's some bankers listening right now. Any thoughts in terms of final advice in terms of the transition to VC? Anything like that?
Sarah: [00:57:41] Yeah. I mean, I would just say like, like, don't give up. It's not the same process as private equity. It is on a much different timeline. So I was seeing almost everyone around me get their offers 18 months in advance, right? And I was sitting there as a third year associate and thinking, Oh my God, I'm never going to get a job, I'm going to be here forever. That's just not how B.C. works. Like, they don't they don't want you until you've had a few years of experience and just be patient, like really spend a ton of time reading and like becoming a voice on the industry and what you want to focus on, and it'll work out eventually, whether it's a more, more linear or circular path. You'll get there
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:24] If you become a voice. Sorry, just real quick. Did you become a meeting? Did you start writing to try and put yourself out there in terms of
Sarah: [00:58:30] No, I didn't. You'll hear that a lot. Yeah, you'll hear that a lot. I honestly think like the harsh truth is like people just don't care what, like if you're not in that, like, it's really hard to have novel insights. And it's like, I do think you'll see the earlier stage you go, they care about that stuff. So sure, like make a medium thing and or a Substack, try to get it out there. But I think you're better off just spending your time reading and not worrying about your external kind of Presence. I think just get up to speed with what you know. Yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:08] Awesome. Sara, thanks so much for your time.
Sarah: [00:59:10] Really appreciate it. Oh, of course. Thanks for having me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:13] And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.
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