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WSO Podcast | E207: Six Sigma Engineer to FP&A, Private Equity and Venture Capital

WSO Podcast

In this episode, Carlos shares his winding road from a non-target school and graduating with a degree in Industrial Engineering to the finance world. We hear about how he went from grueling operations work and narrowly avoiding several restructurings to eventually obtaining an MBA from Booth and why he ended up in FP&A before transitioning to an operational PE role.

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WSO Podcast Episode 207 Transcript:

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief Monkey. And this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me as I talk to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, Carlos shares his winding road from a non Target school and graduating with a degree in industrial engineering to the finance world. We hear about how he went from grueling operations work and narrowly avoiding several restructurings to eventually obtaining an MBA from Booth and why he ended up in FP before transitioning to an operational role. Enjoy. All right, Carlos, thanks so much for joining the Wall Street Oasis podcast.

Carlos: [00:00:56] Thanks for having me.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:58] That'd be great. If you could just give the listeners a short summary of your bio.

Carlos: [00:01:02] Happy to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a little bit about me. Texas guy born and raised down in Houston. Living there in Houston tells about 18. I went to Texas Tech University, got my Bachelor of Science and industrial Engineering at Tech. I was the vice president of that chapter of the Institute of Industrial Engineers and was very fortunate to have gotten to networked my way into my first internship with I.T. that essentially, like kind of just catapulted the next five years of my career. Knocked it out of the park. I worked my ass off during the internship, but got promoted by the director of operations. Since you it's a lean Six Sigma Black Belt program, got my Black Belt cert. And really over the next five years, just to kind of summarize that period, I've held multiple continuous improvement roles and practiced applying that in different industries. So after it is in Aerospace defense with Bell Helicopter, Bank of America, and then lastly, health care, Conifer Health Solutions. That's a subsidiary of Tenet. I'd like to talk about my experience and really like three chunks, but the next the next piece or component would be like the transition is kind of how I think of it and really, you know. I went engineering because I followed my uncle's footsteps and always looked up to him as a kid, but began to sort of realize that implementation, if you will, like the operation space, is really only half the story. You can have an imperfect or a flawed strategy and you can execute it perfectly. But at the end of the day, it's still a flawed strategy, right? So I wanted a broader business perspective and I started craving that when the bank saw deals come through.

Carlos: [00:03:00] Bank of America's Internet newsletter decided to go for my MBA when I was at the health care company and decided that my time and operations and sort of on a granular process level was probably was probably over learning curve was getting a little, little flat. So so yeah, I started going to Booth while I was working for Conifer, I did the weekend MBA program. It was about two and a half years of my life that I had no life. But but it was an amazing experience. It's truly humbling experience. I was able to make a transition while I was at Conifer That kind of took me into really the rest of my career network, my way into strategy, finance. And then finally, So that was a second role at Conifer. My last role was client facing or as a client director, managing clients along the Northeast coast, graduated from Booth, left Conifer, went to American Airlines, MBA Finance leadership development team, stayed there until COVID happened and jumped. Winco would happen for obvious reasons, but that took me into private equity. I got a call from TPG Texas Pacific Group, and I had no idea that really my experience at TPG would be like twofold. I would walk away with some really important insights. One, I didn't want to remain an FP and for the rest of my career found out that I did not have a passion for that, which was a big learning point for me, but walked away with a lot of useful skill sets after I left. Tpg because of that reason, decided.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:44] Tpg just a private equity investment associate, or were you doing other stuff like operational stuff?

Carlos: [00:04:49] Yeah, I think. Thanks for asking it. It's an important discernment. So I was not on the was not on the front end of the business. What people refer to as the front office deal side. I was actually in a strategic finance team. I know more and more companies are kind of like relabeling their FBA teams for finance next series about the why behind that. But anyway that that was essentially like the crux for the decision to move into venture capital, which is where I'm at right now. I mean it was like just to put it in kind of plain language, I mean I realized that I would be kind of like infinitely tantalized, right, because I was in, you know, maybe the the nosebleeds call it still in the company and like in the vicinity of all the exciting deal work happening, like there is a firewall about 100 miles long, 100 miles wide high. And it's really impossible to kind of move there from back to front office. So I knew that I wanted to get closer to the deal work and more specifically closer to innovation, which is one of my core passions.

Carlos: [00:05:59] So left TPG Even though I had an awesome experience, I'll say, with the affirmative macro level. Yeah, after that, right after that found a venture capital program that was unlike anything I knew that existed. Essentially, it's like an accelerator. And for those listening who don't know what an accelerator is, this is basically like a boot camp for the term is traditionally used for startups. A startup will go through an accelerator, right? They might get some funding from the accelerator, they'll get some mentorship, some guidance from experienced, experienced people and founders. But it kind of brings them up, right? Kind of like brings them up to the ropes. And that's exactly what this program was. But it was tailored for investors, and that's kind of where I'm at today. I started that in September of last year, 2021, finished that as a cohort, 14 member venture university. And I'm proud to say I'm now with going VC, which is an awesome, phenomenal program that's very similar. Happy to share more about that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:12] Awesome. So let's start all day back in undergrad. So industrial engineering, you said you followed your uncle's footsteps or he was an engineer. Was finance ever on the radar or was operations always like what you knew you wanted to do? Tell me a little bit about like, Yeah, just like family and. Brilliance was anybody like, Hey, you should go do FPGA or any of this other stuff, or was was maybe even on the radar? Tell me a little bit about that as you're going into school and kind of influences.

Carlos: [00:07:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Did not have any family influence along. Kind of like the finance axis. Yeah, I'm a first generation college student. My dad was a cop and a musician. My mom worked your way up from a county admin. She worked for Harris County Precinct four, which is like a quarter of Houston. One of my heroes. She all the way up from an admin to the highest position that you can possibly have without being an elected official. So she, Chief of staff, reports directly to the commissioner. She's bad ass. Yeah. Yeah. I look to her for inspiration when. When, when the going gets tough. But yeah, I will say though, I will kind of caveat that with saying that I did have a finance influence that was really heavy in my first role. So it where that internship materialized into a full time role, went to Dallas to manage their continuous improvement program. There was a guy, our controller basically at that facility who was just like super sharp. And I mean, I think the real I think the real kind of influential point or the stickiness, if you will, there was. I saw that I saw finance through the lens of this individual's application of finance and his role as being sort of a glue that kind of connected a lot of, if not all of the other pieces of the business together. And I mean, I've always been I guess something I found out about myself is I really kind of desire like a high level holistic picture of whatever it is that I'm involved in. I like knowing how it works and why the why is the why right from the very top bottom. So yeah, so he really was a heavy influence on me. Did not realize I wanted to go into finance at the time, but that definitely played into it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:51] So let's talk about that first internship and you said you worked real hard there and it was Six Sigma Black Belt. It's an operations thing, continuous improvement. Is it really well known for that? I mean, I don't know the space like and so, like you're there. What are you doing for two years while you graduate? You get the internship, they give you a full time offer and then what does that even look like? Is it like, okay, we're going to pay you 40 grand. 50 grand? What is it like just for the listeners? Because I'm sure a lot of people listening have no clue what that is.

Carlos: [00:10:20] Absolutely.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:21] Like me.

Carlos: [00:10:22] Yeah. Yeah, no, no problem. Happy to share that. Yeah. So. You know, the internship is it's something I always skip over because it's when you're when you're in an interview or kind of like a coffee chat, that's a pre interview. You want to get to the more relevant, more recent stuff. But I do think it's really interesting. So the internship took place at a foundry, which is a for those who don't know, it's like a metal casting plant or they just make like metal components. Very, very, very small town, like under 500 people. So for those listening, you may not you may or may not know where Lubbock, Texas, is. It's up in the panhandle of Texas. And outside of Lubbock is like if you think about it as like a planetary system, right? There's like a little moon outside of Lubbock and that's Slayton And that's exactly where the foundry was. It supplied metal casting components for vertical turbine pumps at a plant that located in Lubbock. And they also had a facility down in Dallas. The company did have a really robust Lean Six Sigma program and kind of what that looked like that that that transition from internship to full time role, specifically the internship contained like a number of just various projects that touched what I would call manufacturing engineering's like streamlining processes, looking at inefficiencies, sort of leaning that out. All right. So in a way, I was kind of doing what I what I was going to do as a black belt beforehand but didn't know it, and also took ownership of the plant's environmental health and safety program.

Carlos: [00:12:11] At one point, because we did have a fatality, we had a guy who his lanyard got caught in the wheel of a forklift and it crushed him. So we had a fatality at the plant while I was there as an intern. And I mean, I look back on this and it scares me a little bit. You know, the plant manager, like, I guess just believes that I would I would take that and run with it in the most serious spirit that that's something like that deserves. So I did we we made a number of improvements and improved in the eyes of OSHA as well since that finding. So yeah, the director of Ops was in there frequently, especially after fatality. And I think after we closed out about 295 items on a 300 item list of safety issues that we were going to correct for. I'm talking put up signs for everything you said. Would you like to work for it full time? It's hell. Yeah, absolutely. This is this is cool. You know, it's just into the learning and install of it and and so he he presented me the opportunity 50 K a year which was it wasn't a ton of money but like for a college kid who had.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:34] Been out of school 2010. Not bad. You'll take it.

Carlos: [00:13:39] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:39] I'm unemployed. Yeah. So so tell me a little bit about like the so your was it hard work? Was it like it sounds like you're doing mostly like safety stuff. They're designing stuff like identifying potential hazards, but like, were you like, commuting there? Like, oh, you do. Were you living out in that little town or.

Carlos: [00:13:58] Yeah, yeah, I was commuting. I was definitely commuting. It was only about like a like a 20 minute drive outside of town. So not too bad. It was very hard work and Steve wanted to make sure it's the plant manager's name. We wanted to make sure that I not only had like the smarts for the job, but he wanted to make sure that I was willing to work hard. And when I say that, I mean that very literally. I mean I mean, Jay's another guy who was very influential. He was a full time engineer. They brought him over to the to the to the foundry. And he and I, I'm serious by hand, put up a 40,000 square foot warehouse that we first redesigned. An AutoCAD plant manager says, okay, great, I love this. I approve the design. Now go build it. Right. So, like it was it was hard, man.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:55] Texas like not just not just engineering, but actual manual labor. You guys were like, actually putting it together. So what were your hours like for those two two years? You say, Gosh, 60, 70.

Carlos: [00:15:05] It varied. I mean, like I would say, 50 on like a low on a low end. And there were absolutely there were because I tracked my hours. So it's an hour. And at that point, there were definitely 80 hour weeks for sure. I mean, we would get to the plant sometimes. We are on the schedule of other individuals who work there. Yeah, George, the maintenance guy got there at about 4 a.m. usually. So there were there was many a day where we came and went under the cover of Night Darkness. So yeah, that was kind of the picture of what was going on at the foundry during the internship. Now when I got promoted, I got sent to New York for about six weeks, one week at a time. It was spread over six months and so would get there. It would fly. People in from had three major divisions. I was in the water tech division. Huge company would fly people in from all over the country. We were in Seneca Falls, New York, Utica, New York, and we would just go through kind of this course in this class and we would go socialize and network afterwards. And and so after that, as that was ending, I moved down to the Dallas facility, which was my role, my full time role that was different.

Carlos: [00:16:36] That was really different, is no longer kind of working out in the heat right under under the Texas sun. I mean, I had like proven myself at that point, so, like had an office job, but it was very, very in the weeds and very like a roll up your sleeves type of type of gig. Still continuous improvement, like applying that Lean Six Sigma Black Belt cert meant on any sort of a generic typical project. I mean, you'd go out to the plant floor, understand really kind of where the deficiencies were from an operational efficiency perspective. So there were some processes and areas in the plant that we had streamlined because there was a black belt prior to me. Yeah, other processes were very like Wild West, you know, and you would say like Lean or Six Sigma to somebody. And I mean you may as well have been speaking an alien language, right? So there was like a cultural thing that had to happen to and change management. And really that job kind of encompassed just a series of projects that were all geared towards improving operational efficiencies and therefore the bottom line of the company.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:54] And so you're there for two almost two and a half years. And tell me a little bit what started making you think, hey, it's time to move on or what? What made you think I'm ready for my next step?

Carlos: [00:18:06] Honestly just hunger for knowledge and experience. I mean, that's like that is my honest answer.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:11] So how do you even start doing that, though? Like, who did you go to? What did you start networking? Do you use LinkedIn? Did you talk to friends? What did you.

Carlos: [00:18:18] Do? Yeah, you know, I think it was more that I started working as I as I kind of worked more and more of these continuous improvement projects. You know, I'll be totally transparent. It was a twofold it was kind of a twofold thing, where one was the fact that I just got called by a recruiter and the opportunity just kind of came in, came in to me. And the other was both kind of diminishing returns from a learning curve as well as I quickly started finding out that. There is sort of like this misalignment. And this was one of my main, you know, sort of drivers behind leaving continuous improvement and transitioning my career. Part of that was management saw. They saw the low hanging fruit. Right. Talking the plant manager, director of ops. Et cetera. And many of these low hanging fruit opportunities were not, I guess, cookie cutter Lean Six Sigma projects. They were more like we need to invest in in this tech platform that can streamline this engineering capability of our engineering engineer to order products. We're making big, big water stations. So it's still water tech, but you would just have these really big cash. I just made out of tons of like iron and metal water stations that were like golf course, irrigation, potable water, fire, etc. And there was just kind of like this misalignment where my boss, the direct, the global director of Lean Six Sigma, wanted cookie cutter Lean Six Sigma projects. Yeah. But there really wasn't a hunger or appetite for that at my specific plant. So it just kind of felt like this tug of war thing where I really couldn't create a lot of value in the middle. Yeah, got.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:23] It. Okay, that's fair. So you're like, this recruiter reaches out. What do they say?

Carlos: [00:20:28] Yeah. You know, I don't. Man, That conversation happened a long time ago.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): going to get paid 60,000 instead of 50. Or what do they say?

Carlos: [00:20:39] Honestly, pretty much identical. I think it was like 62 is the number. So you almost on the head? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think what really caught me was like, this is going to be aerospace defense. You're going to work on helicopters. I'm like. That's so cool, right?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:54] That's so cool. Yeah.

Carlos: [00:20:55] That's a lot cooler than water technology. So. Yeah. So I had to, you know, I was just. I mean, it was something that I didn't I knew nothing about. And something I found out about myself in life is, again, this is part one of the major reasons I'm in venture capital today. And I will stay in VC for the rest of my career, save for caveat, a consulting thing I'll talk about later, hopefully, but I like to keep learning for Pi. I do. I get bored if I sort of start learning more and more about less and less. That makes sense. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:30] Yeah. No, that's fair. So you're kind of get there. You're there for only a year before moving on to Bank of America. This helicopter company, how many what was the stint there? Was this similar to tug of war? Were you able to actually do something and it was a natural break or what happened there?

Carlos: [00:21:46] No. Interesting that you ask. There was a union strike and sequesters were happening at the time. Department of Defense budget cuts. Honestly, it felt like the perfect storm within that sector and working within Bell and Textron. Textron was the parent company. So, yeah, I mean, I went in as an industrial engineer, was my was my official title and I had majored in industrial engineering and I kind of like went straight into continuous improvement in a way, you know what I mean? I didn't really kind of get like that. True that what's it like to be a real industrial engineer, you know? Right. And so that was part of the impetus for taking the role. But what happened is the sequester's hit funding got cut, lots of projects and orders got cut, cut and the union went on strike. I think that they were maybe renewing their labor contract around that time. And because of the financial strain the company was going through, there was sort of just some dissonance between the two parties.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:54] They said, Hey, find another job, basically.

Carlos: [00:22:56] No, no. So I've always been very knock on wood here.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:01] I'm not knocking.

Carlos: [00:23:05] Because it could happen again. I've been like really blessed in my career to have kind of gotten off the sinking ship before it sinks twice now. And No, no, that's that's that's that is what would have happened. I barely escaped that fate within a two week span. So what happened is we had a bunch of skilled labor individuals who are part of the union. And when they went on strike, you had a huge facility for manufacturing that was basically empty, except for what you call the people who kind of like crossed the picket line. Right. They agree to go work for the company, even though kind of the union saying don't do it. But you still had this real just deficiency of labor. You had a labor shortage in the plant. And so the industrial engineers who were kind of used to working on industrial engineering things were sent to the to the floor to to actually rout helicopter blades by hand. Yeah. So I've routed helicopter blades like the B 22 Osprey, which is very thought I'm not going to say it wasn't a cool experience, but like, this isn't really what I wanted to do or a good career. So yeah, that just kind of like fortuitously happened. And then right around the year mark, I still remember her name. A lady named Anita called me from Bank of America. She was a recruiter and said, Hey, we're hiring like this continuous process improvement consultant role. I got really, really interested in that because I've always been into technology and I just knew like, okay, a bank is going to be much more technically intricate than like a manufacturing facility.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:52] You know, banks are tend to be pretty slow with their tech. I don't know, because they can't they can't change systems that often. But yeah, So tell me a little bit about like what was your so the recruiter called. Were you looking at that point at all? Or was just like, Hey.

Carlos: [00:25:09] I knew that I should I knew that I should start looking and like.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:14] You hadn't.

Carlos: [00:25:15] I hadn't. I had not.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:17] So she called you, and now she's saying, okay, we can pay you 68 or we can pay you 70 to what she said.

Carlos: [00:25:23] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was right around like.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:26] Like, Hey, I should be jumping more often. I'm going to get a 10,000.

Carlos: [00:25:30] Right. I know, I know. It can get too addicting and you can do it too much, believe me.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:35] But no. So, I mean, to be fair, she called you was going to be a raise again, right?

Carlos: [00:25:40] Yep. Yep. I think. I think I went into the bank at I was earning around 62 K at the helicopter. I want to say I joined the bank at about.

Carlos: [00:25:51] 80,000, maybe.

Carlos: [00:25:54] Like, roughly. Yeah, it was a big jump. It was a no brainer move for sure. I mean, I went in, I knew I'd enjoy the work because I wanted to be in like a non. I wanted invisible processes, essentially. Right. Like things that you can't see coming down an assembly line. And that's exactly what I got. I went in, I met with a lady named Christie and her boss, Eric. Both just I mean, I would consider if for the right role going back to work with those people again, just amazing people. And I just kind of we just clicked immediately. They offered me the job immediately and I was like, let's go, you know, let's do it. It was also closer to home, which really helps.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:39] That's awesome. That's awesome. So what were you specifically doing for for them? I'm on your LinkedIn. I can see that. But like in plain, plain English, you're looking at like key KPIs and building dashboards for different units, business units and stuff like that.

Carlos: [00:26:54] Yeah, yeah. I'll say like there were really two parts to the job. One was like the leading continuous improvement projects, which I done what I did in my last two roles.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:05] What process were you trying to improve internally?

Carlos: [00:27:08] Yeah, Yeah. So we were in like the global tech and ops division within our division within that is huge. Within that arm you had like five groups, if you will, but then one of those groups was like the was was kind of based out of Dallas and Atlanta and it had four subgroups comprising it. Basically, this was check imaging operations, check, check operations, which included the imaging side. That's just you take a picture of a check with your phone.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:46] Oh, yeah. No, I use it all the time. It's great.

Carlos: [00:27:48] Right? Yeah. I'll take the.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:50] Trip to the bank. It's huge.

Carlos: [00:27:52] And. Exactly. I hate going to the bank. And the other half, though, is like new to me. It was totally new to me and I loved it because it taught me a lot about business intelligence. But this part of it was my boss at the time said like, Hey, you know, we need dashboards for these for. And I said, I'm sorry, I called them subgroups. They're actually called lines of business now. Yeah. And you had a department that was like, that was doing like corrections for deposits, right? Like maybe somebody deposited a check twice or something, Right? They were doing that. We had another group that I cannot remember what they said, to be honest, we had a clearing and float team that was super, super highly educated and technical, and then we had the check engineering department and a lot of my work was focused around the the check imaging department and then like the corrections and adjustments department one. Yeah, I'm sorry just to actually finish that thought. So the other half of that role was in designing dashboards and, and really metrics as well, like KPIs, I mean, literally designing the KPIs, sort of creating them in such a way that they adequately gave the executives over those four lines a very clear picture of how their business unit was performing almost in real time. Yeah, we had daily metrics, weekly metrics like.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:29] Number of deposits, which how many are wrong or how many doubles, how many, whatever, all that stuff.

Carlos: [00:29:34] Yeah, I think you might have just named for actual metrics. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. A very bright person from the BI team I worked with named Tom at the time and he just completely opened my mind to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:51] So what were you build it? What were you doing these in Python or.

Carlos: [00:29:57] Yeah, yeah, we built them initially in Excel and this was just kind of like getting everything stood up, right? Yeah, we had to just kind of come up with like, our rough draft proof of concept. Yeah. Tom helped us bring the dashboards to life after the KPIX KPIX continuous process consultants like develop the actual metric conceptually helped us load those into I believe SRS was the tool that we used. They were web based dashboards. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:33] Very cool. 

Carlos: [00:30:33] Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:34] Just like a tableau. Sort of like way to visualize data and.

Carlos: [00:30:36] Stuff like that. One of those programs. That's exactly right. I'll just kind of finish that thought with like there was still an opportunity to apply all those things to signal learning. And what we ended up doing is we ended up actually applying control charts, which is, I mean, like in very long story short was very it was basically like a methodology that was geared towards identifying variation that exists within a process. So to point like number of defects, right? Let's say that you average about 50 defects a week, maybe you're bringing that average down, but if it goes over 100 or if it goes, yeah, so you'd have an upper control limit, their upper spec limit, it goes above 100, like let's set off an alarm and we want everybody on this. So basically.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:22] Something's.Wrong.

Carlos: [00:31:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's just like applying what we've done this path, like a stats lens.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:31] That's cool. That's really cool. So you're there for a couple of years. Sounds like you're learning. You're helping set up these KPIs, these dashboards, learning and what happened with your next jump. And now you're going to at this point you still where you considering business school or thinking about business school at this point yet or not yet?

Carlos: [00:31:48] I was I really was because I guess like two key events. Number one, that was about the time that I started getting a little bit bored with the continuous improvement thing. I like the dashboard work, but I didn't want to keep building dashboards for my career, so I saw kind of like being a curious person, saw the the newsletters that families would send out over the internet, and I'd never heard of investment banking before. I had no idea what it was, but I saw like these deal updates come through and I'm like, What is this? And you could go through the company directory and sort of like, look at where are the banking teams at and everything. I'm like, Damn, this is really high level work. Like, Good Lord started just like searching around on the internet for like what is banking and kept reading deal updates and I got really excited and curious. More curious about that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:48] When you found Wall Street Oasis I'm guessing.

Carlos: [00:32:51] Probably.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:52] Back back then, yeah. Okay. So so then you. Okay, so you're kind of interested in this and what happened?

Carlos: [00:32:58] Yeah. Yeah, I became very interested in it. I identified enough about the career path to know that I needed an MBA if I was to ever explore that type of work. I had no idea where it's going to get the MBA from at that point, but started studying for the job at a lot of late nights there. And then around that same time I had a coworker who sat next to me and one day he tapped me on the shoulder and said, Hey, like, I know you're bored here. I'm kind of bored here as well. I am going to go back to this health care company that I was at earlier in life. There's this really awesome guy named Pennock. Gotcha. You could learn a ton from him and he's looking for all the help he can get right now. I really think you should just have a conversation with them, right? And like, I'm not really looking to stay in continuous improvement. I just have a conversation. So I did. I talked with Pinnock and then like to this day, that guy is one of the coolest people I have ever met in my career. Like legit, How many prospective managers can you go up to and and just say, Hey, you know, I like this conversation, I like you, but I don't want to do for the rest of my career what your team is doing, you know, And like, but Pinnock was so cool about it because he said he made me a deal. Essentially. The guy said, okay, I know you want to go in the direction of strategy and finance as you're maybe kind of exploring this MBA path. I will help steer you in the direction of those two fields. Networking wise, within Conifer. I'll help you get plugged in there.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:42] Just give me a couple of years. Give me some years.

Carlos: [00:34:45] Definitely. What exactly went into his business transformation team? Helped him stand it up and did a lot of dashboard work there for him standing up KPIs for for Conifer Health Solutions. And he I mean, he made good on his promise. My second role at Conifer was like inherited this financial model, whereas developing financial business cases to give the executive steering committee like a financial picture with the ROI was for their roadmap of different projects. They got sleep. Yeah, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:24] Yeah. Which makes sense why you ended up later, but yeah, go ahead. Thank you, guys. So. So you're doing that for you're there for three and a half years at this place, so probably a little longer than you expected.

Carlos: [00:35:35] Yes. Yeah. I didn't I didn't know how long it's going to be, you know. Yes and no. My parents are really old school Again, first gen college student. And I think part of that is just like generational, but.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:53] For like 20 plus years. Right. So they're like, they're changing again after three years.

Carlos: [00:35:58] Yeah. They're like, people aren't gonna want to hire you. You need to stay put in one place, which I believe then. And it's like, Yeah, you're right. But like, even if that wouldn't have been a thing, I mean, there were just so much opportunity at Conifer and looking back, such like an entrepreneurial space, and people were just willing to help you pursue your curiosity in different fields. So one thing.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:26] Can I ask a question for people who don't know I don't know anything about convert? Is it like you actually owning hospitals? Is it like a hospital network?

Carlos: [00:36:32] That's it. Yeah. Thanks for asking.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:34] Yeah. So it's a hospital network and you are the opposite. You're like the operations, like in kind of the finance or operations team basically helping with all this stuff. Like, so how many hospitals total? Just give us a.

Carlos: [00:36:45] Yeah, Yeah. So that's sort of it. Very nearly so. So Conifer Health Solutions is actually owned by Tenet health care. Tenet owns a ton of hospitals across the US. I go, boy, a lot.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:02] Let's just say a lot.

Carlos: [00:37:03] A lot.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:03] Yeah, 100, 200,000 or whatever it is.

Carlos: [00:37:07] I want to say. It was probably around like 2 to 500 hospitals, I think, because they also acquired Catholic health initiatives and other large hospital system. So we what Conifer did though, for like Tenet is there's this really big problem in health care on the commercial side where. Um. Insurance companies as well as people sometimes don't pay the bills or kind of push back. Right. It wasn't medically necessary or didn't have prior authorization, like a $276 Million problem. I think at the time for Conifer and something around that neighborhood. But we were basically liquidating, ah, into cash. And that was yeah, it was kind of like the main function of conifer. That's what I did in that second role, the business case development. But Conifer also had another little branch or division called value based care. Value based care for those you don't know is kind of like. Uh, in a short sentence. What that is about is investing in the health of a population. It can be for a health plan for a company or the same for, like, an insurance is covered population. And you're basically trying to make them healthier so that the plan and the people funding the plan don't pay as much in the long run. So it's like a win win.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:40] Yeah, you're doing more preventative care and stuff like that to try to make it so they're not sick down the road.

Carlos: [00:38:46] Exactly. Exactly.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:47] So tell me. Yeah. So you're there for three and a half years. Your your your boss kind of makes good on his promise. So he writes your recommendation for. For Booth. You do? Okay. On the mat, you get in. But, like, were you always did you consider going to the full time program? Why the weekend program?

Carlos:  [00:39:03] Yeah. Yeah. Good question. So first, I guess, like, I never never in my wildest dreams did I know I was going to be going to Chicago Booth and like, waking up at 3:30 a.m. every Saturday for two and a half years to fly to Chicago and back. But I, I mean, I'll be honest. Like, I literally walked out of the Met. I got so flustered and just sort of down on myself throughout the math portion. Math hasn't always been my strong suit, but it's something I've been able to develop. And I mean, like I went into the bathroom, I think after like one of the math sections of the mat and I was just like, close to tears, man, you know, because I put so much into this and I mean, like, just a lot of late nights. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:50] Did you did you end up taking it a second time?

Carlos: [00:39:53] I didn't. I didn't. I finished my first attempt and like, I didn't know also that you get your results, like, right when you walk out and the test. Proctor, she was like, really good job. And I was like, Are you sure you are the right person? I'm like, I think you have the wrong person. And I don't know, yeah, with whatever kind of came together happened that day, the miracle, whatever it was, I walked out. I was like 92nd percentile, which is, I don't know, just a lot higher than I ever really considered possible for myself.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:24] And so, like, a 700 ish or 710.

Carlos: [00:40:28] Yeah. Really awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Really good guys. Yeah. And that just, you know.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:36] Like, open a lot of doors.

Carlos: [00:40:38] Exactly. Exactly. Like that. That was kind of a thing that hit me on the drive home, and I'm like, Wait, you know, I was considering myself, like, maybe not able to get into, like, SMU or, like, you, and, like, now I can, I can maybe, like, do something a lot, a lot bigger, you know, and or I, I still think that those programs have a lot of value and they they're very prestigious and just great programs. But but yeah, I started looking at the booth and really the diversity, the way kind of the Socratic debate method of learning in the classroom, just cutting your teeth on like you put a stupid idea out there, you're probably gonna get challenged on your So think through things for you. Speak that and just obviously like the doors that that has opened. I told my boyfriend at the time I was like, man I'm I'm going for this, you know? And I mean we can stay in Dallas. We have to but like, I'm going to do this. And so I did and kind of just started it. And there was there were a team of a team. There were a group of Dallas ites who were who were in the program with me and I mean with you every morning, every morning.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:57] Or every Saturday morning. So tell me, is that normal? Like, are there are people coming to the weekend program flying every single Saturday morning, like at 3 a.m., like from California or from like Dallas, from Texas? Is that people do that?

Carlos: [00:42:11] Yes. Yes.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:12] Is it mostly because of like they don't want to pay for the full time program, they want to keep their full time jobs? Is that the is that the thought process?

Carlos: [00:42:20] Yeah, maybe a couple of different reasons people do it. Yeah. Part of my reasoning was I knew. I mean, I had a dog, I had a small little family and a way to kind of support. And I knew that. I mean, at that point I was like six, maybe seven, I think six years into my into my career. And I mean, you know, you get used to it, used to a certain quality of living and, you know, and I was like, man, I just couldn't even fathom, like going back to my family's not rich, you know what I mean? I was going to have to take out loans, go live in a dorm or something. If I went full time and I just knew it wasn't an option for me, but it wasn't all that part of it, too. And this is the other reason a lot of people do it is they just see some merit, some value and kind of remaining in their current role. As you said, Patrick, that for me was conifer open that door for me to make that transition, not just open the door, but like there are a lot of advocates there who really, really help me. I had an ex Bain consultant who was the VP of strategy at the time. I mean, God got guidance and encouragement from him. There was a guy named Tom who was the VP of business development, kind of took me under his wing at a time. So just like these different sponsors in a way of the things that I wanted to do in life in my career, just making Converse such a valuable opportunity. I didn't want to give that up to go do the education.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:00] Yeah, I mean, if you can, you can go to business school and you've made it work somehow. Probably pretty tired after those two years. But you did ah, two and a half years. So you got through it during, during school. Were you thinking like investment banking, Did you do any of those interviews And tell me a little bit about how you ended up in FBA at American, What kind of said, okay, this is this is a good place to be? And were you able to stay in Texas?

Carlos: [00:44:27] Yeah, Yeah. Gosh, you're you're actually drawing on some really big insights and you've got my wheels turning. Yeah. I think for me that's a really good question that you just asked because yeah, going back to Bank of America and kind of that banking inspiration that that fire that kind of got kindled, that is what I had in my mind that I was going to Booth to do at the time. And I did go through banking interviewing. I did I got really, really close with Thamel and the LA office. Amazing people out there. By the way, if anybody's looking for a great bank, I highly recommend you check that out. Yeah, give David Hook a shout as the MD out there. But yeah, went through I was I mean I had probably like 12 Super Day actually not that many. I probably had like seven super days or so, but I was different. Firm. That's a lot. It was a lot. I got close with a few of them. There was William Blair in Chicago.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:35] Did you have taken that? If you had gotten to, would you have moved to Chicago? You probably would.

Carlos: [00:45:40] I would have. I was so into the banking, kind of the thought of it at the time that I would have I would have taken.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:46] Probably applied to what, like 30 different banks got, you know, whatever, ten or 15 first rounds ended up, you know, seven like you said, seven ish super days. Why don't you think you ended up with with an with an offer after all that? Because that's a good number of shots on super days. It's not it's not a sure thing ever. Right. And it's a super competitive. But tell me what what you're like looking back. Was there something where you're like, hey, I should was a technical. It was a behavioral. Was it What was it?

Carlos: [00:46:15] Yeah, Yeah. It was really familiarity and demonstrating interest in the space I think is kind of what it came down to. That was part of it. Now, I will say at Samuel, I believe that this is like down to me and another guy who was an ex veteran that's hard to compete with. I also this guy who was just one of the interviewers of like six or something, just threw me a I mean, I was prepared when I tell you I was prepared for the financial question. I mean, I drilled myself on those things, but I threw me a curveball that that my advocate in the bank, it was a vice president at the time. He even agreed. I was like, man, that's yeah, like, that was kind of just that was super tough. Yeah, yeah, very tough. But yeah, so kind of like got the technical question there and a little bit of.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:10] I remember what that technical was. You got to remember it.

Carlos: [00:47:13] Oh gosh, I.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:14] Know accounting or like a depreciation weird depreciation question and we're. Like.

Carlos: [00:47:18] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:22] Centered a fire deferred liability type question. Fine. If you don't remember, I just. I'm sure the listeners are like, Oh, I wonder what that one is. I got to be ready for it.

Carlos: [00:47:33] I wish I could remember. I really do.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:36] All right, go ahead. So continue. I don't want to interrupt. So. Yes. Tell me what your thoughts were in general on the whole process of that.

Carlos: [00:47:43] Yeah. I mean, I think that that was like the case for Bimal. Right. Which was like one of the ones I got closest to. I felt a very strong interpersonal connection with with the MD in that office and really close with like one of the VP's who was kind of like my sponsor for that and felt like all of the kind of do I like you sort of an element that comes into play. Do I want to work long hours with you? Is there? I just think, you know, at the end of the day there was like that technical and maybe this other guy I just had, I don't know better that experience or something. The other like really the other bigger reason that I think I'd paint with the broader stroke across the other opportunities that didn't materialize was looking back having having a sort of a familiarity, kind of like a yeah, familiarity with, with finance in general and financial markets and just being able to. Um, I'm going to, like, use a tennis analogy, guys.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:50] But, like, speak the lingo.

Carlos: [00:48:52] Yeah. Like being able to get a rally going, you know, that's off script. I mean, nothing. That's like a question. That's. That's. That's part of this 100 banking interview questions that you memorize. But like, I just having, like a genuine question and really being able to kind of go deep and speak.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:09] Economics, if you're talking about the Fed interest rates and macroeconomics and you're like, you understand it, but you're like you're the layers of depth weren't necessarily there that other people who studied finance, accounting or economics.

Carlos: [00:49:20] Basically could go to. Yeah, yeah, that was it. I mean, one of my mentors at Booth at the time, his name was Shane, somebody I still look up to to this day, extremely bright individual, super nice guy. He was kind of just helping me with like little chats and check ins here and there throughout the process. And, I mean, I just that's really where I noticed it because Shane would just like, spout off the study. You know, he'd worked in sort of like private financial markets for the majority of his career prior to Booth, and I knew I didn't have that. I knew I'd gotten some of that and just cutting my teeth at booth and like the finance courses. But I mean, there is I'm going to say this as well. I was extremely humbled by the Booth experience in sort of in the sense that very often like it was a it was a high curve to climb to keep up with some of my classmates. I mean, there were extremely bright people at that school. Oh, yeah. So just yeah, grateful to, to kind of be shoulder to shoulder with those guys. But given the competition, the nature of kind of how sought after those roles are.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:39] Oh, it's really competitive. Yeah. Especially for Booth, because a lot of people go in a booth, they want those.

Carlos: [00:50:44] Jobs, right? Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Banking consulting.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:48] So tell me a little bit about the PHP and stuff. And you were there for at American for a year and a half. Tell me how that kind of came through. And then specifically, what was that role like and what did you like? What did you not like and how is it similar or different from previous roles?

Carlos: [00:51:02] Yeah, yeah. One yeah. One One thing to kind of like segue into that was another part of your question. I don't think I answered why if instead of banking wasn't just because I didn't get a banking job into the idea of consulting at the time, I found strategy consulting. That be just as interesting as banking. But I you know, again, I always keep things down to earth and just be very real about I'm a human right. I became single midway through the program. I'm a dog, dad. I'm not the kind of I don't believe in offloading a dog to to parents or just leaving a dog with a sitter for 100 hours a week, which is like banking hours. So I knew yeah, I knew that I needed to like restrategize and go back to the drawing board. I knew I was into finance, I knew was into strategy. American Airlines had a financial strategy MBA program that seemed to kind of satisfy the can't work 100 hours a week, can't be gone five days a week sort of thing, but still kind of belonging to kind of those two fields is really what took me in there. And then to answer your next question, which is like about the stuff. I guess first I'll say like, yeah, what, what I what I liked about it. A few things I liked about it were the with the sort of caliber of talent of individuals that I worked with, people in finance, smart generally really smart individuals, very quant adept. It's very detail oriented. I guess I sort of felt maybe a little. Yeah. I felt very challenged and kind of going back to that really high learning curve thing, I think that I'm pretty heavy, right, Bryner? I think I've always had to work a little bit harder to keep up on the math side, which I'm able to do now.

Carlos: [00:53:17] But it took a lot of hard work to get there. And I knew that that job, I knew that quant would be an important skill set to have going forward in my career as well as analysis, detail orientation. So I knew that that job would answer those things. I knew that I was working with a lot of really smart people who were going to accomplish really great things in life. I also really love the culture as well. So those were the things that I liked about about, I guess, finance in general more PHP and A there. You know, there's there's a certain satisfaction that one gets when. You're working with numbers and there are financial realities that are really hard to argue with, right? So you argue about the strategy we take because of the numbers, but like the numbers of the numbers. So there was like a sort of like financial finite or kind of concreteness about it that I really appreciated. And I think I think in terms of what I didn't really care for as much or maybe what I didn't feel played onto my strengths, let's say, you know, being sort of. Being sort of a. I don't I'm struggling for the right word, but being able to explain language, being able to sit in front of a spreadsheet and look at the same financial model for. It's hard. It's hard. It's boring to me. Like.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:57] Especially if you're doing the same model every time. So. So you're there for a year and a half, year and a half or so. Covid hits. Clearly, airlines aren't necessarily a good place to be. Are they telling you find another job or what was that like? You know, saying, hey, this is not looking good?

Carlos: [00:55:15] Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll going back to a comment I made earlier about when we were talking about helicopter of Knock on Wood. Right. I've always been fortunate in being able and being off getting off the sinking ship before it goes underwater. Yeah, that that's really saved me twice my career now once that helicopter. But then again, American Airlines. What basically happened is we.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:40] Were all aviation here. Just kidding.

Carlos: [00:55:45] Right.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:46] Airlines are a tough business, so. Yeah, go ahead.

Carlos: [00:55:49] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I mean, we were all like the NBA finance team was in the room with our CFO one day. We had these, like, leadership sessions where the NBA team would sit and we would we would just kind of hear directly from a senior executive about your experience. And just different things would just be kind of a career talk. And probably about like 2 hours after the meeting ends, Kobe to just hit. We're talking like March. We all get an email. Everybody who was in the meeting was like, Hey guys, I really want to do this, but I may have exposed you all to COVID. So yeah, that that kind of I mean, that was like the, the first of many dominoes that started following at American. And you just read the writing on the wall where things are going. You know, I got, again, a very serendipitous call from TPG from a private equity recruiter. It wasn't like I was looking during that time. This time I was actively looking. I was interviewing with the likes of LinkedIn, Google, other big tech firms, but got a call from TPG. Tpg scuse me. And knowing like I always knew that private equity was kind of one of the outcomes or sort of career path leading from banking. I didn't know a ton about it at the time, but. I knew that it was more. It was more of a strategic way of creating really big value in the realm of finance is kind of how I looked at that space. And that really attracted me. I was like, Man, alternative investments. Yeah, I'm in. Let's go. So, so went over to TPG. And I mean.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:40] Real quick, can I, can I go back to comp before we talk about TPG? So like you were a conifer working through throughout your time at Booth, you're making out, what, six figures at that point near the end.

Carlos: [00:57:51] Or close to close to you? Very, very close to I think it was it was it was it was 98,000 was my final salary at Conifer.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:02] And A and American I assume.

Carlos: [00:58:04] Was roughly 110 110. Yeah. 110. They they I think kind of like kept it really blanketed like everybody kind of got the same thing, you know.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:18] Yeah.

Carlos: [00:58:19] Yeah. Which was probably.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:21] Yeah and then TPG this is middle code but. Tpg Did they make you a strong offer? Was it even better than that or was it, oh, I mean, code or are they like, Hey, we know you're going to lose your job.

Carlos: [00:58:29] You did have it. They did have a bargaining chip there and they used it. Yeah, that's good. I was very like I was really proud of myself throughout that interview and kind of negotiation experience. My nature is to be anti conflict, anti confrontational. I'd say yes to easily. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:54] You're like, Let's go, let's do it. And then you're like, Wait a second, I shouldn't have said yes. The first offer.

Carlos: [00:58:59] Yeah, exactly. I mean, I will say they. They brought me.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:06] In. Do they come in Super low?

Carlos: [00:59:07] Very low. Very, very low. They wanted to pay me. I think I might have even done like, 75 or 80 something. Yeah, I was like, I can't do this. Like, even on a sinking ship, you know, I'll wait for the next ferry to pass, so. Or take my chance with the sharks. But. But, I mean, like, I actually. I mean, I declined multiple times, and we went through multiple rounds of negotiations. Finally, at one point, the recruiter who is not working for TPG, they worked for.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:42] These third party recruiters. It's fine.

Carlos: [00:59:44] Yeah. Yeah, it was.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:47] Somebody just kept saying no and they kept coming back with more and more, offering more and more.

Carlos: [00:59:51] Yeah, but. But Parker and Lynch, by the way, was. But, but yeah, it got really it got really dark at one point because the recruiter actually told me, I mean, she was like, okay, she's like, What are you doing?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:03] This is COVID. Everyone doesn't have a job. Look, just take this job that.

Carlos: [01:00:07] And she also said, like, this is the last offer the company is willing to make. Like if you don't take this, we can't. We're done, basically. So I didn't take it. I was like, sorry, I'm going to I know what I can offer and know what I'm bringing to the table. Like I'm going to be self respecting enough to like to stick up for myself there. And so I'm not going to lie. I got a little tipsy that night. I was pretty depressed about it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:34] Like, it's not happening.

Carlos: [01:00:36] Yeah. Yeah. Woke up with a bit of a headache to a text message from the recruiter saying like, we're not done. So they. They came back anyway and like, they hit 110, which was like matching what American paid. Right. That's great. It was. It was good. It was awesome. Yeah. Because I had averted this risk of, like, COVID fallout. I was an area is more interested in.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:00] I mean, I would have taken the six figures if you can make 100 or 95. I just because you know a little bit of a bump with a global pandemic, I don't think is a bad outcome, especially going from American Airlines to TPG. It's a strong brand on your resumé and everything like that. So I think you I think you did very well for yourself.

Carlos: [01:01:19] I think so, too. On top of that, they they have a really great bonus structure is the thing I'll say about TPG even in the back office. I mean, they they take care of their people. As an emerging business leader, I'm a big fan of performance based compensation. I think it makes a lot of sense having skin in the game, probably a model I'll kind of pursue in life. But but it was like it was like a 20% bonus the end of the year. I mean, yeah, yeah. It was it was very generous. And they did like a 3% just contribution to your, to your 401k like 5% match. It was, it was good, it was a really good package.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:59] So you're still close to home. You're in Dallas.

Carlos: [01:02:02] Yeah. Yeah. Well kind of like the role is in Fort Worth, which I lived in Dallas at the time, but everything was remote because it was COVID. So it was like, we'll kind of cross that bridge when we get there, you know?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:18] So tell me a little bit about just you're there for a couple of years then What kind of adventure bug seems to bite you? Tell me a little bit about that. And, you know, Yeah. And then we'll wrap it up. Just talking about a little bit of the programs and stuff.

Carlos: [01:02:32] Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:35] So your time at TPG? Yeah. Tell me a little about your time there. Like, what was it like? Was it super different from American to like, I think on the you're more on the operations strategy side of like helping portfolio companies. Is that what what you're doing.

Carlos: [01:02:50] Sort of kind of it had some similarities to American but it was different in some ways to the similarities. You're still extracting insights from financial data and conveying those in an executive communication way, right? That lends itself to action. The things that were different about it were TPG Was the Wild West compared to American Airlines, just because of the firm size, the maturity of the organization, the maturity of their technology versus American Airlines. American we had like there was just like these ordained processes and ways of getting data, and it was just kind of like a lot of stuff off the shelf, you know? Yeah, But at TPG, I mean, it was like. I have no idea if if it exists or where it's at. But like, good luck, you know. But, but that was cool, though, because I really got to take the reins from an entrepreneurial perspective and really take a degree of autonomy.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:03:57] Were you were you doing the work for TBG operations specifically? Are we doing work specifically for other portfolio companies, the companies they owned?

Carlos: [01:04:05] Yeah, no, it was more of like on a corporate finance level. So the way TPG structured, they've got about like five or six different fund families or I forget divisions, basically. And you've got like your growth equity, you've got like your rise, which is like your impact. So socioeconomic and so etc., etc.. Health care fund. And this role was was at the at the what would be the corporate level is a private company at the time. They just went public back in February, by the way. And this role kind of liaison with with the fund with the funds, but not with the portfolio companies. Right. That was really the the the domain of the front office.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:04:58] Fund level, like the associates down there. And so you were in more like the corporate office up at the top, kind of helping trying to pull in data from the different funds up into. Got it.

Carlos: [01:05:09] Exactly.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:05:10] Like good luck. Yeah. Quarterlies from like all the different people. Like, it's like, impossible.

Carlos: [01:05:16] Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:05:16] Still got an Excel out of it, right?

Carlos: [01:05:18]  Yeah, it was all Excel. It was all Excel. I mean, it was very like, like, I'll say, the challenge of everything kind of being Wild West and Excel based and like not having that technical infrastructure was there. But the expectations that would have belonged at like at American Airlines were also still there. I mean, because it's private equity, right? Like that is like nobody stops that machine, man. That machine keeps keeps going, you know. And so it's it was one of my key takeaways from that was I really, really learned how to get creative and find a way to make it happen on time. And that required building business relationships that I could lean into, tap on different resources for data, information, things on the fly. I mean, you live or die by your business relationships there. Yeah, Yeah. And then just how to hustle, kind of get those things done. Again, from an entrepreneurial perspective.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:06:23] It's very cool. So you're making good money.

Carlos: [01:06:27] Yeah, that's the million dollar question. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:06:32] So looking back, like, is this something you're like. I mean, I guess now you're like, you have some B.S. experience, know you've gone through some of these programs. You know, now that your eyes are here on the other side of those, what's what's your thought?

Carlos: [01:06:47] Yeah. Yeah, I, I had a hypothesis that was kind of in the works that I developed about my, you know, belongingness or not belongingness within that role. And that materialized into a key insight that I got out of that role, which was that FP And a and sort of that corporate finance space just wasn't my passion. I mean, I was taking a lot of really useful, beneficial like skill sets and experiences away from it. And I knew that they would do great things for my career. But at the end of the day, I mean, I was just bored. I was just bored and I felt like kind of the diminishing returns, sort of effect where, you know, I.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:07:33] Was flatlining again. Yeah.

Carlos: [01:07:35] Exactly. Like you would take on a new model and build it out. And that was cool and exciting. But then, like, once the thing was built, it's like, okay, now your job is to just kind of like, turn the rent. Yeah, press the button. And so it was not that simple, but there was obviously like an insight analysis component that kind of kept things interesting. But what I, what, what, how I knew that I wasn't passionate about it is because I it was because a I didn't feel I didn't feel energized by it internally, but it was also because B, I saw something in that role that I was really, really, really passionate about that I wanted to go chase after. That was the work that was happening on the front lines, like down in the. Down in the trenches right.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:24] At the actual start ups and the VC, one of the VC funds or whatnot.

Carlos: [01:08:30] Within within TPG at the private equity fund level, within the Deal team. These guys were going out sourcing deals, finding like these super innovative companies.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:44] That in the rough. Yeah, yeah.

Carlos: [01:08:47] Haystack Yeah, exactly. I mean these companies were like game changing, right? These are the things that shake markets and transform markets. And I mean, and TPG was like early investors are like box Uber. I mean Airbnb, like some big names. And it was just impossible to not be completely, like, mesmerized by that, you know, it's like, man, that's what I want to do. I found myself reading, you know, kind of being captivated by the investment thesis and the kind of the glue that made it all make sense from a strategic macro level. That's the understanding that I wanted to go after, and that's the impact that I wanted to have in my career, because that stuff was really game changing, knew I wasn't going to like at least get to contribute to a company that was going to change an entire market by working in corporate finance. So.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:09:39] So what made you comfortable enough? To kind of leave your position or if that's what happened, I guess what happened for you say, hey, I'm gonna go to one of these venture programs and spend You have to spend money, right? It's like more like a university. So tell me about that decision. And I mean, I think I know the answer, but I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Carlos: [01:09:59] Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for asking. And a it was really my one of my step dad's favorite sayings is, like, all we have is today. Alright. Like, you know what I mean? You never know. Then you've only got like, right now, so like, live while you're alive. And I mean he's preached that my whole life. So I mean I, I'm adopted that myself as, as a mantra for life and I just wasn't. Money is just money, you know that's another one of his sayings, like money. Money can be replaced, money can be remade, but your life is finite. Our time on this earth is precious. And I think that our window of opportunity to positively impact the world in a way that makes the lives of the people who live on this planet better, enriches, enriches Those experiences like like that is so the fulfillment that you would get right, even from like the possibility of kind of having a role to play in that is just makes it more than worth it to take a gamble financially. And I wouldn't have always done that, by the way. I would never before in my career have like had the guts to go and like just leave straight up, just like leave a company.

Carlos: [01:11:25] But yeah, I did. And I have not looked back since. I don't regret it. So glad I did. About the same time, like Fallon Venture University on LinkedIn, because my first thought after I left the role was like I knew I was going to kind of like, do the soul searching, period, but like, I need to get a job, right? So. So yeah, a venture university came up again, like kind of similar to like private equity, knew a little bit about it, but not a lot about it. But I did know that this program was kind of a hybrid like VCP investor accelerator type of thing, and that's exactly like it was. It could not have been. It was like the stars lined up, you know, just like, okay, I left this role because I know that I wanted to have an impact in this way from this strategic angle like deal side. And here's this program like falling right into my lap, right? Like on the search results and LinkedIn and, and that's exactly what it exists for is to help people transition into that. So there was I mean, honestly, it was inevitable that I ended up there. I really believe that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:12:36] So looking back on like your whole path so far, any words of wisdom you would've given to your younger self or to the young listeners out there before we call the pod?

Carlos: [01:12:44] Yeah. Yeah, I would. Absolutely. And. Talk to as many people as you can in as many spaces, that you even have an inclination that an itch that you might be interested in that space. Go ahead and get on LinkedIn. Go ahead and tap into your alumni network. Reach out through any means that you have. Reach out to me. I'm happy to. I'm happy to steer you guys because I believe that it makes such a difference in life. And it could mean life is about the journey. I'm happy and I'm content by it by my journey thus far. But, you know, if you want to really just kind of make the most out of your time that you have here, kind of tying everything together, right? Find out what you don't what you don't know. Realize that you don't know what you don't know and go out there and talk to people. That was probably the one mistake that I made is is it sounds really kind of poetic to say I followed in my uncle's footsteps. But I mean, the reality was there were probably five other career options or paths that would have been, if not more, probably many more than that would have been much better suited to to me and.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:14:01] Maybe your learning type. Maybe your right brain would have been there is a career out there. Maybe you should have been an artist or a musician. I feel like my daughter is a very right brained and yeah, I'm always thinking like, what would be good for her? Where can we?

Carlos: [01:14:16] Yes. Patrick I have asked myself that through so many the pain.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:14:22] Of the suffering of math, right, When you don't have when you have a right brain dominant. Yeah, it's really interesting.

Carlos: [01:14:29] I think that that and then to piggyback on what you just said, I think, you know, there's going to be another poor analogy. Bear with me. But if anybody grew up playing The Sims, I did remember The Sims. Yeah, I played. Yeah. Okay, so let's go back for a second. You're creating your character. Your character is picking a career path, right? I think it probably part of this was me being a first gen college student and not really just kind of part of it was that, but part of it was just me not taking the impetus to chase down information and discover. Right.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:15:07] That's normal, man. I did the same thing. It's sorry, I continue your thought. I just I think at 20 years old, 20, you don't know what you don't know and you don't know that you should be talking to a wide variety of people. That's why it's such important advice. I agree. Hundred percent.

Carlos: [01:15:21] Yeah, I agree with that as well. And I think I think that my is just incorrect perception. Back when I was an undergrad was that creatives want to go be want to go earn lower salaries and be musicians or music band directors or artists or struggling artists or like right. That that's the life of a right brainer. And if you follow your creativity and there's a small chance you might be really successful and make it big or something. But the thing is, I mean, and I can tell you this firsthand, as somebody who is currently interviewing like Bain BCG, to explore those career paths, there is a world of opportunity out there in the business ecosystem for creatives. I mean, design like industrial design, that doesn't mean like manufacturing, that means like designing websites and products, right? It just kind of fit the human and the user better. Oh my gosh, there's such an there's a whole world out there for right brainers. So, yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:16:24] Totally. I need to do more research, but I agree. Well, listen, Carlos, really appreciate your time longer than usual, but I love this story. I love the honesty and the advice. So thank you so much for taking the time to share with our listeners.

Carlos: [01:16:36] Thank you for taking an interest and for interviewing me. I appreciate it. It's an awesome experience.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:16:41] Thanks, man, and thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.

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