WSO Podcast | E55: $60k to $500k in Just 4 Years
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Member @REPE shares his incredible story from bouncing between continents for his education to landing at a bulge bracket investment bank on the equity derivatives sales desk in London. Learn how he survived massive cuts during 2008, even when his bosses were trying to make him look bad, to why he jumped to a smaller bank. Why he decided to go back to the US to get his MBA from Wharton and what his passion is now.
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WSO Podcast (Episode 55) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis. Your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me! As I talked to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, member REPE shares his incredible story from bouncing between London and the U.S. for his education to landing at a bulge bracket investment bank on the equity derivatives sales desk. Learn how he survived massive cuts during 2008, even when his bosses were trying to make him look bad. To why he jumped to a smaller bank. Why he decided to go back to the U.S. to get his MBA from Wharton and what his passion is now. Enjoy. Thank you so much for joining the Wall Street Voices podcast.
REPE: [00:01:05] My pleasure. Patrick.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:07] So if you could share just a quick bio with everybody?
REPE: [00:01:10] Yeah, absolutely. So I'll just give you a bit of background on what I've done so far with my life. So I was raised in Europe, came to the U.S. for high school, then went in state for undergrad, cost me next to nothing to actually attend in state. And then I wanted to go back to the UK and I moved to the UK for a Masters, a master's in finance and accounting at the time. Most people didn't do it because I was more than 10 12 years ago, so it wasn't as popular as it is today. From there on, I just joined the bulge bracket. Trading for did that for two years, got poached by an emerging market bank and did that for another few years, then got tired of it and decided that my heart was actually in real estate. I had invested in real estate all through my career in trading and to do this move, a bit of a radical move went to do an MBA in a top free school. It said MBA did an internship in between the two years in real estate. Private equity graduating went to another real estate. Private equity firm did that for two years, left just a few months ago and now I am trying to run my own deals and see what I've got to take me and potentially if adults failed miserably, go back and get a corporate job. But I hope that's not going to happen.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:40] It's great. So kind of background on me, kind of a long and winding road of very non-traditional. So you're raised in Europe, went to high school and college in the U.S., transferred back to London for a master's in finance accounting, got into banking on the trading floor, then ended up as a head of a desk at another smaller bank. Correct. And then kind of rebranded Got your MBA to break into real estate private equity with no previous private equity experience, which is crazy in and of itself, but
REPE: [00:03:08] It means an expensive,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:10] Yeah, no M&A. No, and you manage to somehow break into real estate private equity. So that's we'll get to that. But let's start just from the beginning. Let's start from, I guess, moving to the states for high school. What was that like? Was that a tough transition culturally and tell me about kind of college and what was your mindset where you're like, I know I want to do finance and I'm going to go back. I know I'm going to go back to London. Or was it just to kind of kind of more
REPE: [00:03:38] Transitioning from Europe to the U.S.? A bit of a culture shock. I think the good thing about the US culture is that it's quite open in that you can make friends easily. Relationships are not transactional, but you can show up at a party and no one is going to ask you, what are you doing here? But he's very welcoming. So it was easier than I thought. Obviously, the language was a bit of a barrier.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:01] Did you show up to a lot of parties just uninvited?
REPE: [00:04:05] I did it a few times and it was. It just worked. People just throw an invitation out there. You talked to a few people. They mentioned that something is going on at Wednesday's house and you just go apparently being strict. They didn't make it very easy a lot of the time, but it worked out. It made a good group of friends still in touch with them. It was suburbia in the high school, so you can imagine, well, I don't think a lot of people can imagine what it is, but basically everybody had two car garage. Everybody was very happy and most people were heading for in-state colleges. I don't think a single person going into assignments in on the East Coast.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:46] So how did you learn about how did you even know about the master's program and how did that get into your head?
REPE: [00:04:52] It's a bit of a journey, so I just won the state college. There it was. It was a great school, but most people would just be hired somewhere in the state. I mean, just for reference, I was in Seattle and so did that and fell into finance, did a bit of fun in all the finance classes. Accounting started learning about jobs that were out there. But to be frank, my idea of like a job in finance was to go work at Microsoft. Boeing in the corporate department, at Disney or sexy job would be private wealth management in that area. Mm hmm. It's only after graduating college a bit earlier, I had an accident that basically took me out of school for a bit. So I was stuck in bed for 14 months. As I was laying there, semi paralyzed. She looked at. I was paralyzed. Fortunately, things worked out in the end so I can walk.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:52] Are you willing to share what happened with that accident? Was it a car accident?
REPE: [00:05:57] I used to do freestyle skiing, but I ended up well, finishing a jump on my back, which basically didn't to do a lot of good to my spine. Oh boy. So that sent me to bed, but surgery got me out $120000 worth of surgery. Thank God I had insurance. But yeah, a lot of times you think. And my brother actually was working as a corporate lawyer in the M&A department. Mm hmm. And he's the one who kind of told me that listen, lawyers make X amount of money. Bankers make ten times more. So that kind of sparked my interest. At the time, you didn't have a Wall Street to this website, so people didn't really talk about investment banking on the West Coast. Or if you if you weren't, if you were just like in the suburban high school, it was more something that you'd find in New York. Obviously, you had some investment bank in California, but it wasn't just as prevalent the information you could get at the time. Of course.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:00] Yeah, so it makes sense.
REPE: [00:07:01] I decided that I wanted to do a master anyway because most people in W.M. I wanted to go back to Europe. I was a bit tired of the U.S. and headed to the U.K. for my master's.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:11] What about your family? Did they decide to go back or you were just like, you felt like independent enough? Like, I'm going to go to London myself?
REPE: [00:07:17] Oh, it was just myself. My parents actually stayed back in the U.S. at the time. Ok. That's since retired and moved back to Europe. But at the time it was purely I just wanted to leave, go to Europe, got it my gun government after there and do the master's program. I think it was only a one-year master. And you had to apply. If you wanted a banking job, you had to apply in the first two or three months you basically got on campus. Mm hmm. And there I fell in with the crowd that was quite pretty active in terms of application, and they're the ones who told me that they were obviously shocked at the fact that I was completely unprepared to apply for banks. And so they made me feel quite uncomfortable and put a lot of stress on me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:00] You basically got there. You're competing with kids. You had summer internships this summer before in London folded. So you're coming into almost like a senior year with no, no traction at all in London. How did you even start? And I know it's a little bit different in terms of networking in London. It's not like you can go in there and just your network, your way in. So tell me how I mean, you were obviously a great master's program. Was that was that enough to kind of get is that y like you got enough first round interviews on campus or what happened?
REPE: [00:08:32] So I applied to a few places and I had absolute zero rate. No one would come back to me. And it's only after I went to a tour I kind of had. I was a bit discouraged at this point, and I thought that when you had company presentations on campus, when all the firms would come and present, I thought that was a bit useless and that a friend, I was in the library. I was just in my bright red polo. He's in the suit. He comes over to me and he's like, Listen, I don't want to go to this company presentation on my own. They'll be free food and free alcohol. Why not to join? So that sounded like a quite enticing proposal. I didn't remember. I didn't have a suit. I was the only one in that room without a suit went there and then the head of the derivative and the structured product department gave the keynote speech. And when he just got down off that platform, I just jump straight on him and as I talking to him, I had traded options a bit on my spare time really with my dad. He was explaining me how it works. So I just tried to throw all the knowledge I knew and questioning him and asking him about all the things he knew. Even though I didn't know much, I made it sound like I did know quite a bit.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:42] So this conversation is actually like a pivotal conversation in your career and in your life.
REPE: [00:09:47] It just it's my life, my life hands down.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:50] So, I want to break that down because you said, you said some interesting things there. You said I just jumped on him when he got off stage. So you're in a red polo shirt, everyone's in a suit. Number one, you have the I'll say, you have the balls to basically go up to the sky after right after he gets out of there and just start, you know, almost monopolizing his time where other people trying to get in.
REPE: [00:10:11] Yes, I had. There was. I just remember there was this one other student who was next to me, but who he didn't have much chat. And I guess like part of it, he didn't actually know a lot about options. So I'm asked to really monopolize the time of that, of that basically big MD. And he only started talking to me, and at the end of the conversation, I just remembered that he gave me only his card to myself and not the other guy, and just said, Listen, just send over and ask me what job you want?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:40] Why do you think you made that impression? You knew enough about options just from trading them yourself. Like how extensive was your knowledge to go up and have that
REPE: [00:10:47] very limited
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:48] Like you understood what like, I'll put in a call was
REPE: [00:10:51] Like, What is it? Yeah, I knew what to call what. I knew what it was. Yeah, and I had. Read, like some guides, and I think like today, I think I would be a lot more prepared. I know for a fact that you've been producing on your website, I've looked at a few of them. Again, this knowledge was not available, but imagining like taking one of your guides and taking 30 percent of the knowledge of that and using that to basically try to network and have a conversation with someone. It sounds like you didn't.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:20] Even you didn't. Even you thought these things were useless. So why did you even bother go besides the free alcohol? Why? Why did you then go? So you went there for the free alcohol? But then what kind of during the conversation, what prompted you to just be so aggressive as soon as the conversation ended? Cause it's like, why not? Why not just go have a couple of ladies? You know what I mean?
REPE: [00:11:38] Because he was quite a high up M.D. I had people kind of rabid shy of him, and he had like aespa next to him as well and was about to get out to basically leave the whole thing. And I was just like, Well, this is this guy is he's big in his department. He can make a decision. What he's doing is an area of interest. I had taken like a class on options in the past and as I mentioned, I was interested in that subject as well. Mm hmm. And that's why it just felt natural in a way. The other thing, and I think that comes to the difference between Europe and the U.S. in the U.S. and I've seen during my time in my MBA and my undergrad is people are a lot more confident and aggressive and aggressive when it comes to the situations here where like in Europe, where people are a little bit more rank matters, you don't just go up to anyone and approach them.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:36] You don't just go to an MD, a senior MD, and start rattling off questions like you did.
REPE: [00:12:41] Exactly. Again. That's really the big difference it made.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:44] So the culture or the American culture that had seeped into your personality somehow helped in this situation. In this situation
REPE: [00:12:51] And in the house, it's like it's the reason why I got the job. Yeah, I think the and to be clear, the guy was not American. He was he was English. He went to Oxford. I have very well educated, but at the end of the day, you know, he did like the approach I took, and that's why he gave me his card, which I'm very lucky for. And I always remember that moment because, as you said, he was life defining and he
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:16] Gave you the card he didn't give the other kid. The card is what I remember from our chatter there. Exactly. And so tell me about it. So this is like I think a lot of people will be interested in this because especially in London is a more aggressive style. Does it benefit you? Does it benefit you? You know, it's interesting that you said you were wearing a red polo shirt. I had another guest on previously who had a very similar experience, one to an info session didn't. Everyone's in a suit. He's in like sweatpants or whatever. It doesn't care. And he had been studying medicine. He started going up and like, almost clearly a very bright guy starts almost grilling the guy just rattling off questions and the guy gave him his card. So it's something of where like if you can show your intellectual horsepower, curiosity, curiosity and stand out. Now, now I'm worried everyone is going to go in sweatpants and red polos to these info sessions. But like
REPE: [00:14:04] My point, exactly
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:05] My point is not necessarily good to do that, but having the confidence to actually interact and not interact in such a way that's like a try hard where you're trying to
REPE: [00:14:15] Like, I think that's very key. And what you just said, the Polo is more like a kind of a reflection of my personality at the time. So if I had been in a suit, it would have been the exact same thing. And it's one that I had the confidence and I wasn't scared of what I was going to say. And it's that culture that really attracted him. Because when you think about it and that's been in this, then I was on the other side of the coin going to all those campus events at my alma matter in London and trying to recruit for the bank. You see so many kids that are just again, try hard, just some of them a bit arrogant. Just very remember. Clearly, this one kid didn't have clean hair and had long nails, which was absolutely disgusting. And so he's stood out.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:02] But for all the wrong reasons like basic hygiene didn't apply.
REPE: [00:15:06] Exactly. And that was that's a big no-no just to make that clear. Yeah, that is important.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:15] So but you said something interesting, you said they were kind of some came across as arrogant try hard. You going in almost with the Polo allowed you to be a little bit more. I don't know. It seems like it allowed you to be a little bit more aggressive. Do you would you agree with that? Like it?
REPE: [00:15:30] Almost like you had nothing to lose because it shows that you're not really in a way it almost makes you want it like they. They want you. You don't care enough to dress for them. Yeah, I've been like in a relationship, right? It's if you try too hard. Yeah, she's not going to be interested in you if you just act very cool. You don't really care about her. Not interested. You do create some sort of dynamic where the person actually might be interested in you. And that's a bit the same thing. The guy shows me, you see me in Apollo, I'm not. I probably have another offer, maybe with, let's say, Goldman Sachs or God knows who.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:02] Yeah, you're not. You're not in awe of his seniority, in other words, in his.
REPE: [00:16:06] Exactly. And I think that helps because in this way, he's like, OK, well, the guy doesn't. He's not dying to get a job here. Let me try to sell the film. And a lot of the conversation that he had with me was him telling me about how great it was to work. And I would be asking him about problems that could arise between sales and traders and how this is all being resolved.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:29] Yeah. Do you have any examples of the things you talked about or things you said or asked him?
REPE: [00:16:33] So it's again, it's more than a decade ago. I know, I know. But I think I do remember one question I did ask, and that one was basically, how do you manage the I think it was it's a bullshit question, but it’s still work. How do you manage the inherent conflict between the sales and the traders with on the trading floor?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:54] And so your delivery must have been really good if you felt like it was bullshit, did it come across as genuine when you asked it?
REPE: [00:17:00] I think it's the question itself is bullshit, and that's how you're going to how are you going to reply to this conversation and the follow up question you're going to ask? But the initial question is kind of bullshit, because that's the basic question you ask all the time. So you need to be able to back out understand exactly what that problem is. And then based on his response, try to find holes in it and try to push there to have him a bit on the defensive, but not too much, because you don't want to be too aggressive. Otherwise, you just he's not being a complete wanker and just walk away, right? So it's a just balance. I think you have to manage it, but definitely, definitely helped. I remember the only other bank that actually did two of the bank that did give me interviews in the end. One of them was Goldman. It was a similar situation as well. I just he wasn't in a similar situation, but he wasn't with me submitting my CV. He was with me, meeting people and just pushing like there was no tomorrow. I think at the time, a friend of mine was,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:55] What do you mean by pushing, what do you mean by pushing like?
REPE: [00:17:58] So I understand meeting people you like and you want who had heard or anything with Goldman Sachs. I would try to get in touch with them somehow. And I, I always remember, like one of my really close friends. She was dating an associate at Goldman at the time, and I just, you know, he was a VP. I gave her my CV. She passed it on to him. He helped a bit. And he didn't go really anywhere with that one that I just pushed. And the only conversation I really had was not by applying it online. And again, we've talked about it early on. Just now is I didn't have an internship before going into banking. You know, if I'm applying online, people are just going to look at my CV and be like, well, this guy, you're going to throw it out. You're not qualified.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:41] Yeah, I think a lot of people, they rely too much on, like the resume drops the online system and because it's almost the easier way to go and you apply and you get rejected. And that's and then you move on, you say, I tried, you know, I tried, you know, I just they didn't want me. Yeah, versus absolutely taking the time to speak with you.
REPE: [00:18:59] And you and I can apply online any time of the day. It doesn't take any effort really. Going out of your way to make things happen is a whole lot harder. And I know from the fact that my personal expense today, I'm trying to get some of my own deals done on my own. Yeah, you know, some days I just sit on my ass and do nothing. Nothing is going to come to me. I can send an email. Nothing, nothing's going to change. I have to go there. I have to find something to do. I have to find a buyer. It's like, if you don't, if you just drop emails, nothing's going to come to you, basically. And I think it's the same thing in recruiting.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:28] So you joined this bulge bracket bank and you're on a basically options sales desk, right? So what was the decision between sales or trading? Like what was decided that?
REPE: [00:19:41] Um, so I'm also quite funny because obviously he gave me his card and tell me, like, just reach out to me. I reached out to my CV and H.R. called me and asked me, like, what job do I want? And I told it because they created the position for me at the end. I spoke in emerging market language, so she saw that, and she's like, well, listen, we have an emerging market debt. You want to go to trading, do you want to do sales? And I told her, like, I actually don't know what I want both. I'm good. So she said, well, listen, let's do this. We'll just have you meet the whole team and we'll see what you like most. And so I interviewed with traders and she would sell people. And at the end of the day, they were like, Okay, this guy's a sales guy. We'd love to have him on the trading floor, but we need him in sales. So they didn't say we'd love to have trade. They just said, we want him in sales.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:35] Do you feel like that's just your personality because you're good at schmoozing and being a little bit and you're just natural sales. The gift of gab, the gift of gab, they call it. Ok, so
REPE: [00:20:47] I want to. I don't think I was a very good salesperson when I started. I think those skills really grew with time. I was quite awkward in high school and college. I mean, you know, when you when you're teenager and you just got out of college, it's not like the world's your oyster and you're this man of the world. So it's not like something I had innately. It's just I built it and like that whole interview process. Building that confidence through every different interview is basically what made them do that decision.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:21] What was the hardest interview you had? So it sounds like this one. They basically just gave you the job with almost like not even an interview or they were just like, What job do you want or do you still have to go?
REPE: [00:21:29] No, no, it was actually. I had to meet with 12 people in the company. Yeah, so the entire team and anyone has a right of veto. I think on this one, it would have been a lot harder for them to say no because I was a direct recommendation from all of their boss, right? So every single interview was more of a check. He's not a complete moron, but most interviews you'll find out in banking. Usually you have a pretty good idea of who you're going to hire. And a lot of those follow on rounds, they already have an idea of where they were job or not. Right? It's just like, don’t be an idiot.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:04] So how did you how did you avoid not being an idiot? Do they ask you any technical questions for like options questions?
REPE: [00:22:10] There's a tough question whether the traders you know they grill you. Yeah. And the bottom line is. I a lot of the technical question I didn't have an answer to. But they realized I had just done a massive masters. I had never worked on a trading floor, so they also realize you probably won't be able to answer almost every single one of the questions. I think the more junior staff will try to ask you the toughest question, the more senior people will ask you more questions. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:39] What about those fair questions? Was it more like, tell me your weaknesses or was it generic? Or was it why? Why are you interested in this company or stuff like that?
REPE: [00:22:46] Some know some from the junior guys. It was more like it would be technical. You're joining a trading floor at the end of the day, so they want to make sure you got your math right and you know how to do two plus two from the MDS. It was more general questions. What I like to do? Talk to me about the market pitching your stock. Those are the more like qualitative and more fun questions. I prefer too technical. And were
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:13] You ready? Were you ready for those?
REPE: [00:23:15] And no, no.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:19] So how did you not look like an idiot? Did you have a stock ready when they asked you that or did you did you have enough practice at this point where you felt like you looked good enough where the recommendation from the senior MD was going to carry the day?
REPE: [00:23:32] No, I think the most important bit is to show to them and be curious. So the thing I've mentioned a few people and the thing I tell everyone is, if you don't know, just ask. And just as long as you curious, then if they explain it to you, make sure you're able to repeat it to them because and that's something I used to use in interviews. If somebody doesn't know, I explain to them and then I'll switch right back on. The other can explain to me what I just explained to you. And that's my interview style is very similar to what a lot of people do. So if you don't know something. Try to explain to them. So they ask you a question, let's say on, hey, how do you hedge your governor? Explain to them what game is and be like. Actually, have no idea how to hedge it but don't know what Yama is. This is what JAMA is. Yeah. Can you help me? Essentially, the other bit. So to show them that you understand this part of the question. And as long as you know, it's like a bowl of complete sweat and stress because of your questions on that answer, you should be all right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:30] Got it fair. So you're there for several years, three years, almost. Yeah, exactly. Let's talk about the transition. Why? Why move on and to a smaller bank.
REPE: [00:24:40] So trading floors are quite interesting. It's intense. People shout at each other and talk to each other, but it's very transactional. People understand when you move, it's much more money, at the time,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:54] so what you're going to you're telling me about money now, I hope you're going to tell me about pay at the bulge bracket and then what you got at the smaller one.
REPE: [00:25:01] So basically, the smaller one doubled basically what the market was offering, and at the time it was all they were starting to give shares. I think now everyone gives shares, but the timing was new. Banks generally offer shares. That's the post-crisis thing. So the smaller bank was like, well, we don't have to shares because we don't we're not listed. So your bonus will be paid in cash. There was a massive incentive at the time I had offers from two of the bulge bracket firms as well. Some of the best ones, if not the best. And I said no to them because the pay of the smaller bank was a lot better and we'd literally eat what you kill to give you an idea. I brought more than 12 million of P&L to both record banks I was at. I moved to the small bank, bring them like 1.5 million, and they were just like amazed at the amount of money I managed to produce because in the bulge bracket bank, it's assumed that you're making money to the franchise. So you are just a cog in the machine.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:01] You're making money for the franchise, for the franchise behind the name, right? You're not the value,
REPE: [00:26:05] You're not the yeah, it's thanks to the man you're making more money. Whereas in the smaller franchise, you know, when I'd be calling people that like bank who it really it's really the relationship you have built and developed or are able to build and develop that matter. So you could be a really shit salesperson in a good franchise and you do all right and no one would notice your shit. But in a smaller company, people really see that. Basically, it's really everything down to you. So I quite liked in
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:31] Your three years at the bulge bracket, you were making, what, between two hundred and three? Well, two hundred and three hundred USD around.
REPE: [00:26:38] Yeah, exactly. That's about right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:40] And so then it jumped around five hundred thousand at once. You were head of head of
REPE: [00:26:44] The desk to be it. And I wasn't even handed one when I jumped to a alpha male. And you know, when you're like 25 26, it's serious money.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:54] Yeah, it's a lot of money.
REPE: [00:26:55] Sure, right? I know there's been inflation as well. So if inflation adjusted, it's even more. Yeah, I think everybody gets paid a lot of money today. But at the time it wasn't the case. We had just gotten out of the crisis as well. So yes, for the recovering from that,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:08] For that time, an unbelievable pay. So tell me a little bit about just the culture of this, this new bank.
REPE: [00:27:15] So the new bank was it was very interesting, I think my first second week on the desk to one of the trader was front running the other. So it basically got up and had a fistfight on the desk, which I had never seen in a ball racket. I'll be very honest. The head of trading just stood there, separated them as if nothing happened. Everybody went back to their work. It was. It was surreal.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:39] The Wild West, the Wild West, there's fistfights. What else is going on at this, this wolf of Wall Street?
REPE: [00:27:46] Thank you. There's quite a lot, I think, especially in terms of. Not me. I would never do something like that, but a lot of people would take the card and corporate card and entertain clients in a very good way. I'll just let your imagination run something that you clearly couldn't do in a bold bracket, especially at the time I remember. Well, budgets, we wouldn't be able to take clients out and we wouldn't be able to spend more than a hundred pounds in the private bank I was staying at in the content payment about $150 $160. A head which doesn't get you very far with wine was here. It was like, Well, we guys paid us $200000 on this trade. Well, feel free. Entertain him. Whatever, it's nightclubbing. Do whatever he wants. And one of the reasons I left is the industry. Well, it's not the main reason, but they of a reason of what happened in the industry, in a smaller bank. You kind of rely on like being really good friend with the clients and being able to, like, understand a bit better. But in my last year there, they actually cut out our expenses completely and aligned it with all the bulge bracket firms.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:59] Is there you think there's a reason they did?
REPE: [00:29:03] They were trying to cost cut and then because things weren't going as well, they were more like trying to go into the we don't want to be seen as they just want it to be more like a bullet bracket from basically, which is silly when you're not
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:14] There trying to tighten the reins to be more professional or whatnot.
REPE: [00:29:17] Exactly. When exactly did that sales determine the decision?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:23] So you started looking at yes, once that started happening or what else kind of was it just was?
REPE: [00:29:29] Well, up that particular market, I was in the like another crisis and it was a bit tight because I was worried. My food crisis already on the job, I had to let go of a lot of people on my team, which was not pleasant. And then at the time, volumes were drying up as well. So my old bank actually was keen on hiring me back at the time, as well as another good record bank, but I just didn't have the heart to do it anymore. I think sales, you really have to when you're young, you can really, like, have a lot of fun, but then it's very boring. So I just let go a lot of people.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:05] You had been clubbing enough in London to, uh, you had had enough. You had enough bottles. Bottle service to for a lifetime,
REPE: [00:30:14] You know, off of it. No more. I mean, you're laughing. It's true. Like, I didn't actually enjoy going out to all those restaurants anymore at the end because you're entertaining clients at the end of the day. So you're working, right? So even though, yeah, you can let loose a little bit. It's very exciting for the first few years, but then you just like, I just want to. I don't want to be nursing a hangover. When you want to go home, you can't go home because it's when the client wants to go home, you go home, right? And that's not great.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:39] But also like 3:00 in the morning, you're like, Oh, this is killing.
REPE: [00:30:43] Well, exactly right. Because like, maybe the clients can get back to the desk. At 10 11, I had to be back at the desk at six or seven ish. Right? So, you know, if I'm out until three or four, I get one or two hours of sleep. It's just, I mean, I could do those things when I was younger today. No way I'd be able to do that to tell
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:00] You some of the crazy, any crazy stories from like taking clients out that you remember. I mean, I can imagine just the debauchery. Yeah, there's
REPE: [00:31:09] Quite a lot I think for this call, I made it OK. I might sell them to myself.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:16] Fair enough.
REPE: [00:31:17] Fair enough. But that's a compromise. Too much? Yeah, that's fair. It's a tough thing. But yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:23] So talk to me. So it was wearing on you. You kind of like where you'd been doing this for now, almost six years, almost seven years.
REPE: [00:31:29] Yeah, obviously
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:31] You were trying to figure out what's my next step. So tell me kind of what the thought process was in terms of looking at this point.
REPE: [00:31:36] She's like, I'm like, Okay, well, I've got the money. I've done it. I can't quite retire on it, but I've got a house. I'm comfortable. This market is very slow. I could go back and do it in the bank, kind of like restored the franchise again because again I was on the mono market person, so I would have had to rebuild relationship with people who look at multiple markets. Got it. I was slightly burnt out and I had always loved real estate. Always did. As I said, invested on this side. Made a decent amount of money, but you'd have had to be an absolute idiot to have made money from 2012 to 2015. So that worked out well. Well, you know what? This whole real estate thing actually sounds good. Talk to a few people look more like head of funds and realize their private equity funds. And they all like telling me, Go do an MBA. We're not going to hire you now because you're coming with the head of something with absolute zero relevant experience, right? At least you'll be able to transition more easily. So here I go on off to go do an MBA. Mm hmm. And I think
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:39] You got into a top program, you got into top program and you're thinking, I'm just going to hop over to real estate, private equity. When I when I'm done
REPE: [00:32:46] Absolutely love, I was like, given I'd be able to transition, especially after like I've talked to. A big guy that likes them, just introduction from friends and reaching out to them when I was looking for jobs and they were like, Oh yeah, yeah, just go do an MBA and come back.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:01] Why do you think they said that? Because to me, it's pretty well known nowadays that if you don't have pre MBA private equity experience, it's incredibly difficult to get in post MBA
REPE: [00:33:10] Just because it was ludicrous. What they told me it was, it was insane. I think I was one of the only one person who didn't come from private equity who actually managed to get into private equity after the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:19] Mba, and you were in a top spot with a lot of kids going after.
REPE: [00:33:22] Yeah, exactly. As I mentioned, like the it was a two year program. You take 50 percent of every single student in a two year program where part of the Private Equity and venture capital club right on campus. And by the end of it was all those kids end up in consulting or banking. But if I had wanted to do banking out of my MBA, I probably I wouldn't have done it because I've always already in banking. There was no real point in doing that program, so I just fought hard to get into that private equity job. I think the advice I got was from people who are older, who at the time MBAs were a lot less prevalent. So it was kind of the thing you did. And because they weren't so many MBAs, you had a pretty good shot at private equity.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:03] So tell me a little bit about that. So obviously, when did you realize, wait a second, you're in your first, say, three months at your MBA program and you're tell me, Temple, when did you realize, wait a second, this might be harder than I thought.
REPE: [00:34:19] I think at this stage it didn't hit me yet. It took me about six months to realize that at the beginning you realize that everybody panics and it's like, Oh shit, everyone's getting jobs in banking, consulting, internships. So a lot of people abandoned the idea of D.C. and go and apply for those jobs. And as I go on, no, I'm good. I'm still going to apply for private equity.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:42] A lot of them have debt. A lot of them have debt, right? You didn't have debt. You had capital.
REPE: [00:34:46] Yeah, you didn't have debt, which is why it's a big plus. I think exactly in that situation, I'm like, well, worst case scenario is what I'll be able to get back into, like a more traditional banking job, I was never really worried about it being that time. But that is when I started just getting rejection after rejection, even after meeting people. And it wasn't something I just wouldn't apply. But I talked to people in network like I did. And everybody was like, hey, love you, JP, so everybody would take a coffee with me and all those funds. And the big problem is that all day coffees, but nobody had to jump on me. So that was quite, quite annoying. And that's when I made panic. I mean, I'm married. So luckily, at the time, my wife was also working, so that was good. Um, and then I just got really lucky when everybody had almost my entire program had secured some sort of internship except for, like a few other kids. I think I got my internship offer in two months before the summer started, or a month, actually a month before the program started. And so I got really lucky. And that was by an alumni of the school who basically was like, well, listen, I'll show. Why don't you come in intern with us? We've got a spare desk. We could use some your language skills. I like you. I'll give you a chance. And that was I think I was quite lucky because most people I know didn't get the chance.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:14] So like, he was willing to take a shot on you with no previous experience, you just liked you. Exactly. And it was just through.
REPE: [00:36:21] The other thing is, he also had the same background as me when I think about it. He actually used to work in training, in ethics training courses. So he kind of knew the rigor I went through. Yeah. And he again, he was much older. So he was at a time when you could you didn't have that many people in real estate, private equity. So he transitioned to it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:41] Yeah. And so you had moved back to London at this point to look for the internship near the end of year. Like, what happened? Did you? Were you looking while you're still in the U.S. and your MBA program?
REPE: [00:36:51] Yes, that was. So basically, when everybody goes on spring break and everything, I actually go back to London to go and try to meet people and get an interview because my wife was in London didn't like the US very much. So she was like, Get a job in London. So I wasn't looking in the U.S., which made it even harder for me because I wasn't I couldn't just go to New York and be like, Hey, yeah, can I meet with you and have a coffee? But in a way, because I had multiple language skills, I think actually looking for a job in Europe was a bit. Might have been I don't know if it could have been a bit easier because they value that a lot more. Whereas in the U.S., it's like, well, everybody speaks American. Yeah. You'll be working in the U.S. market. What's your edge? We don't really need you to speak all those languages, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:36] Ok, so you're you. You manage to last second, like during spring break. Did you get the offer like for that summer?
REPE: [00:37:44] After something like that?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:48] So it was last second. Yeah.
REPE: [00:37:50] A month later, the guy came back and I was chasing with emails and he's like, Oh yeah, actually, we can't take you on. I'll create a little position for you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:57] Oh my gosh, yes.
REPE: [00:38:00] So it was a relief, and he didn't think happy about it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:03] Did he pay you at all in the summer or?
REPE: [00:38:06] Yeah, I got I got not a lot, but I got enough to. I still have my flat in London as well. So it was, you know, that I wasn't actually losing money over the summer, which is good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:16] That's good. So tell me how that how did that internship change everything for your second year?
REPE: [00:38:23] Well, the problem with that is because at the end of the internship, there was no full time job. Simply by virtue of them reorganizing the whole company. Ok, I'm not going to go into detail because it's a bit of a giveaway. The internship? That's fine. But essentially people weren't sure whether they have a job. When I'd be done with the MBA, so my boss simply said, Listen, I don't know if I'll have a job when you are out of your MBA, let alone having a job. Right? So that was back to square one, which was a bit shit because, you know, usually you expect getting a full time job after your internship.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:00] Yeah, they can enjoy your second year MBA.
REPE: [00:39:03] Exactly. I didn't really do that there from day one. Then it was like, OK, I'm going to hit the hit the road and again, using the exact same method I did earlier, just coffees with every single person and anybody who's anybody in the world.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:21] You're still trying to get a full time offer in London Post MBA and you're in the U.S. still. So you're going back. You have to go back on a campus or while you were doing the internship in London or
REPE: [00:39:34] In the holiday. Yeah, that was good. The guy I was working with, he basically told me, mid internship. Hey, like, there's nothing for you. So just make sure that I'll give you all the time you need to meet with people. So I got to meet. A lot of people may not know during that time that I secured it, but I did meet somebody doing that during that time. Then I came back over Christmas again, meeting a lot of people. And then after this? So not to go into too much details, but long story short. Toward the end of the MBA year, somebody I had met. I reached out to them because I kept following up with people and he's like, actually, we have an opening. This guy just left come over to interview. Interviewed, got the job, but the job they gave me was a not. A full time contract was a four month contract. Like, hey, we'll just see how you work out. And if you work out, we'll give you a full time job.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:35] No stress. So you graduate
REPE: [00:40:39] And I'm basically an intern. I'm glad.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:41] Got it. So tell me what? Tell me how
REPE: [00:40:45] A well-paid intern that they have the decency of paying me? Well, it was. It wasn't really an internship program, but more like a fixed term contract, really. That's what it was.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:53] So you're well-paid, but you're still taking a pay cut based on what you were making previously as a head of.
REPE: [00:40:57] Oh, completely, yeah. That I would have gotten to pick up no matter what. Right? Because they ended up offering me the full time job, obviously. I mean, press them. They give me a full time job. How did you impress them with? No?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:10] How did how did you impress them with almost no experience in like financial modelling or any of that real estate stuff? How did you
REPE: [00:41:17] Passion, passion and a lot of it?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:19] Yeah.
REPE: [00:41:20] So like, you know,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:22] Tell me about that. What you do day to day
REPE: [00:41:23] funny because most people well, it's like most people do for money or government as well. And then you have to show passion about in Africa. And I actually did love real estate, and I was telling the guy was exactly what I was doing with my real estate, how I loved to break the mortar. And I think I had to be even better than the other guys to be able to get that job. The financial modelling, it goes without saying, I mean, I need to know how to do one. And that was quite hard because I had never really done one except doing my internship, but doing my internship. I made sure to learn how to do that. During the school year, I would actually go out of my way to learn how to bottle deconstruct model in the best way to learn how the model is. You take an existing model and you just recreate it. Yeah. Every junior I had, that's always what I told them to do. Got it. The best way to learn. Obviously, you need to learn the basics of like, take a few classes first. Yeah. What excel is? Yeah. But then to really drive it home, you need to basically deconstruct somebody else's.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:22] Not got it. So you kind of hit the ground running for months. Yeah. Where did you? Were there other interns that were that were you were competing with or that didn't get the offer?
REPE: [00:42:36] Was it not? It was just me at the time. It was. And they just basically made that a temporary job for me to try me out. Got it anyway. But again, it was a mega fund because that's a big difference. Small funds do not have the resources and the time to train you. They had to be a big fund because then they can take they have enough people and spare capacity to spend a bit more time with you. And that was clear. Both funds that ended up do internship and full time one, both were very large funds.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:11] Large funds got it. So it wasn't like if you were a little bit of a dead weight. At first, it wasn't a big deal. But didn't you feel like you couldn't be that with the four month kind of trial there, that internship?
REPE: [00:43:21] Yeah, I mean, I was quite confident in my skills.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:25] And what were the hours? What were the hours you were putting in during that internship? And then kind of you ended up working there for a couple of years, but what was it like there? Yeah, I mean, that was
REPE: [00:43:34] I was working a lot more during my internship than I was when I got to full time.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:38] So like 70 hours or 80 hours down to like 60?
REPE: [00:43:41] Yeah, I always have dinner in the office, but I think I think that's another bit of a fallacy as well. And that was quite interesting because most of my mates, I work in M&A and they always told me how long the hours are, how awful it is. And then I got to experience it myself and I saw, like, yeah, people did long hours, but it's because most people are single. They get free dinner at like eight and they get a free taxi ride at mine. So that's why that's saying that. But like most of the time, they don't actually have to be there. Yeah, it's true. When you have a life deal on, you're going to pull like really shitty hours. Yeah, but most of the time I was, I was home at seven most of the time, except when I had like something like, uh, when something big was going on. And that did happen like maybe once a month or like twice a month. We had really to put in the hours, but most of the time, you know, you get to work at nine on time and just work hard for the day and get out of seven.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:34] So you worked there for a couple of years. Why change? It sounds like it's kind of your dream job.
REPE: [00:44:38] What's funny? I thought it was and you know, you put yourself into this, this you put this goal into your head not really knowing what it was. Mm hmm. And then I did. It got quite disappointed about the industry the way it works, especially at the moment where I was, it was. So if I had stayed, I would have started getting some Kerry, I think, from next year and as well, I'm getting carried in a fund that's just been raised in 2018. I saw the investments we could do. It wasn't very sexy, like the market is quite toppy, so I realised if I was going to do another five years there, the whole carrot and the money isn't the carrot. It's not in the bonus, it's not in the salary.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:17] It's occurring because of the salary, the salary, the bonus, the salary, the bonus you're making, what three hundred at this point three?
REPE: [00:45:24] Fifty yeah. Dollars Yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:26] So yeah, it's still good money, but it's the real big upside is that carry you're saying twenty eighteen raising the fund. It's not the best time to be putting money to work.
REPE: [00:45:38] It's not. And I'm going to be working like an idiot as well for very long hours with not much upside. So, yeah, had it been to 2012 2011, I'd be like, Yeah, I'll do that. No problem. Yeah, but here we feel so, so topic. I was like, well, that's probably not the right time to be doing this, and we did some shit hours. Yeah, so I kind of reflected a bit. I'm like, well, at the moment, so I'm looking at my own opportunities. So I've picked up a few, a few contract jobs purely on entrepreneurial basis. I mean, I'm remodeling a house for crying out loud, for somebody in like a very rich neighbourhood.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:14] So you're doing more residential kind of your own one off projects like actual real. Get your hands dirty.
REPE: [00:46:19] Yeah, yeah. I've built equity and I'm having a bit of fun. I think that's the other thing is when you work those jobs, you don't have a lot of time to rebalance portfolios and do all those very important things. Yeah, basically taking care of your own money. Yeah. And you know, that portfolio, I've grown it a lot and I still manage to take care of it. But then, you know, when you leave the job, I had a proper amount of time to really refocus everything and take care of any work with the tenants, increase their rents, all that type of stuff that I picked up like a few, I'm doing that. I'm doing that for friends and families as well. So I'm helping mainly friends and families, but I'm just basically taking this up and putting them on the market to rent your property.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:05] You're a property manager. It was a side hustle. It's kind of become your full time thing, at least now while you're kind of.
REPE: [00:47:10] Exactly. It was. It was my side hustle. Always had been always kind of like, put it together, which is also why I didn't feel like, Oh shit, I'm out of a job. What am I going to do? I'm tied to this desk. I can never leave
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:22] You always had some cash flow from that.
REPE: [00:47:24] Yeah, exactly. I had the cash and you have my wife doesn't work. I have two kids. So it's not. It's not an easy decision, but that side hustle really, really helps. So today I'm not making money, but I'm not losing money, right? Which is a good position to be in when I'm trying to, like, do the next big thing. Yeah, which, you know, it might happen when that happened. Who knows? Maybe like a carnival I'd be. I'd be open to join like a tiny little team of entrepreneurial guys in a small fund or something like that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:57] Tell me a little bit about the actual like deals you have for friends and families is something where, like you manage all of the everything, from everything, from like the tenants, the rent, the collecting the cheques to and you take like a percentage
REPE: [00:48:11] Of the. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, you just what is it?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:13] 20 percent, 20 percent.
REPE: [00:48:15] So essentially I take very low. I take eight percent.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:19] That's really low. Yeah. Ok.
REPE: [00:48:21] Yes, I'm very aggressive compared to the markets. I can do it because and you have to also remember that rents are quite high in London, so eight percent is eight percent of a bigger check. Right. So it's like if you were to take eight percent of rental fee in New York that would be a nice check. Yeah, a big city. It's good enough.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:39] Yeah, that's interesting. Have you use like, are you using technology to like, systematize it at all? It's just interesting to me. Like, Yeah,
REPE: [00:48:47] I don't have I don't have that many plots to not. I mean, the one thing I do know you have, like some online platforms that allow it. So all my ads on this online platform, so whenever I need to resist, it literally is a click. You pay a fee and it goes all the listed platforms. That's awesome in terms of management. Some quite good in terms of there's some regulation you have to do so like calendar reminders of when I need to like check the gas safety shit and got it. And then at the end of the day, you don't have that much things going on. It's more like when something happened. It's a pain in the ass to deal with. But if you know how to deal with it, like knock on wood, but usually I have like, maybe like one intervention two flats per year if I'm not like, you do. So it really is like passive income. The painful bit is to find the tenants. And then when it comes to resolving it, I've got my builders, I've got my network of people that can do the job. And that's mainly what my friends prefer to give it to me because they know that I'm going to get screwed on the work because I've got people who can do it for cheap as opposed to somebody they don't know, and it was just going to take an arm and a leg basically, right? It's shocking what people charge, and it's quite an easy and easy offering. Thanks to the internet today, it's very easy to list of what you might actually need an agent. It costs me virtually nothing to list, and I'll get I'll be able to show the facts. But again, because I'm doing it on a small scale, not on the big scale. Like I limit myself to like how many
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:14] Five flats or something, how many do you do? So say, how many flights are you managing five or four?
REPE: [00:50:21] So we have 11 now. 11 has gone up there. So some of them are quite a lot of them are ours. But so it was just it was quite a natural thing to do in that. A friend of mine moved out of London and I didn't want to sell his fob because of Brexit. I was like, Listen, I'll just do it for you. Then he liked the way I did it. He told another friend was like, Hey, can you do it for me? I was like, sure, but like, I didn't pitch any of the business, and I'm sure if I did, I'd get a lot more flags. But the idea is, I don't want to grow this business. This is more like a sustainable kind of live and sustain business. And I want to go home to big companies. I want one of those big deals basically finding like a big asset that needs a lot of operational work to do it. Find an equity source on it and take
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:10] Like a distress, like a distressed property. Get the investors together, do the Renaults whatever needs to be done to refurbish and then put. Flip it
REPE: [00:51:18] Completely. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, that's how we did in the big fund I was in. We'd be backing those guys would be coming in with those opportunities and I guess we'd like the opportunity. Here we go. Here the money, go run it and the guys would be running it. And then at the end of five, six years, they're the one walking out of like a $10 million cheque in the bucket, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:39] It's just hard to find. It's just hard to find them. Yeah, it's hard to find the deals right now because the valuations.
REPE: [00:51:43] Exactly, exactly. But I think you missed and that's what I mentioned is like, I'm getting myself a bit of time to find something like that. It's very, very hard to do. So I'm not really counting on it. But, you know, if in a year's time it hasn't materialised, maybe I'll think of doing something else. But at the moment, I'm keeping myself busy. Sounds fun. I picked up the deconstruction for a clients, but I'm also going to be redoing some of my houses adding floors. Yeah, all sorts of things, basically to try and monetise my portfolio and just mix it up. I think because the easiest thing to do is to finance yourself and not look for equity financing. So yeah, I can do it on my own. On the small scale, you know, it grows little by little. It's just patience. I'm not going to be a billionaire tomorrow, but yeah, one day we'll get that patient.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:34] But great. Well, anything else you'd like to before we call it anything else you'd like to share with the community before we call it. Anything to your younger self, anything you would have changed in your path, I mean, it's a really interesting path.
REPE: [00:52:47] Yeah, that's I think on that one to too much to my younger self. Some I'm quite happy with the way things have turned out. There's one thing I'm particularly happy I did is in the bulge bracket from the first job I had. You have to remember I was right up to the minute everyone was getting fired. It was just the most brutal environment, work environment I had ever been, and I wanted to quit every single day. Mm hmm. Had I quit that first year, I wouldn't be where I am today. So it's I was being insulted, treated like complete shit like it was. It was awful. I mean, senior people were trying to take my clients, even though I have tiny
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:26] Clients, they were trying to take a job. I assume I'm trying to save their own seat.
REPE: [00:53:30] Right, exactly. Because at the time, you know, like every big client is, is basically collapsing. So their clients are dying, just trying to fight for whatever they can in a bull market. They don't care about this more kind of passed on to the juniors. This everybody was just looking for whatever money they could make. So I was fine fighting with me on the floor with directors, with VPNs for business. It was really hard and again being insulted by the trade on a constant basis. So very demoralising time. And there's, you know, almost every week I was wondering whether I was going to quit, but I stuck it out. And I think the most important thing I can say is just like, I mean, stick it, stick it out, basically in that job for the first two or four years and then maybe quit and do something else. But at least you have something to show on your CV that you actually have done it to three years
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:17] That you could survive the gauntlet.
REPE: [00:54:21] Exactly, exactly. It means a lot, right? Because people can see, OK, the guy has actually done two or three years of the BD. Yep, good on him. He can do something else. And if you want a more relaxed job, you'll get it, but you'll get paid well and a relaxed job, right? Not as well as banking, but people are not going to question your ability to like be able to survive a good job, for sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:38] Great. Well, I think we'll end it there. Thank you so much for taking the time to share all your wisdom especially. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.
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