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WSO Podcast | E73: Lazard Private Fund Advisory to Head of Investor Relations at Searchlight Capital

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In this episode, EmilyIR shares her path from a non-target school to landing a summer internship at Goldman Sachs. What she did when she didn't get the return offer in 2008 and a detailed dive into the day to day of analysts in the fund advisory group at Lazard. Learn how that group and working as a placement agent is different from investment banking and why a transition to investor relations in private equity is a natural next step. Also, some important advice on the one thing you should believe in before taking on significant career risk.

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WSO Podcast (Episode 73) Transcript:

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief Monkey. And this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me as I talk to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, Emily shares her path from a non target school to landing a summer internship at Goldman Sachs. What she did when she didn't get the return offer in 2008 and a detailed dive into the day to day of analysts in the Fund Advisory group at Lazard. Learn how that group and working as a placement agent is different from investment banking and why. Transition to investor relations in private equity is a natural next step. Also, don't miss some important advice on the one thing you should believe in before taking on significant career risk. Enjoy. All right, Emily, thanks so much for joining the Wall Street Oasis podcast.

Emily: [00:01:08] It's nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:10] It'd be great if you could give the listeners just a short summary of your bio.

Emily: [00:01:14] Sure. So I graduated from college in 2008 and I did my summer internship between my junior and senior year in banking at Goldman and the Industrials Group. Then upon graduating, I went to Lazard and their private fund advisory group, which does fundraising for third party private equity firms. And then I've now been at Searchlight for seven and a half years, which is hard to believe. But here I am, head of Investor Relations and also chief of staff for the firm. So do a variety of different things here.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:45] Seven years is a good run. That's very impressive. Yeah. So you're you're graduating in probably the worst year in the last. Whatever quarter century or so or since the Great Depression. So tell me, 2008, you have this summer internship at Goldman. Do you get the return offer or was it something like really tough in the summer? It was a super competitive and they just didn't give a lot of return offers.

Emily: [00:02:09] Yeah, So it was it was a great experience for me. I, I did not receive a return offer, which I think that that was that was tough for me. But I felt like, you know, as I was going through the process, there were elements going through my internship, there were elements of it that I really enjoyed. And then there are other elements of it that it was clear to me weren't really my core skill set. And so from that did a lot of.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:36] Can we go back even before? So let's talk about how you even landed the internship in the first place. Was that like sophomore, junior year? When did you hear about investment banking? What even made you think, Hey, this might be interesting?

Emily: [00:02:48] Yeah, So I was doing a lot of networking. I'm not someone who grew up knowing a lot about finance, investment banking, what that really even was doing some networking, trying to figure out what it was that I wanted to do with my career. And actually my sophomore year I saw there was an internship posting at Goldman in a in some sort of compliance.

Emily: [00:03:12] Group.

Emily: [00:03:12] And it was not all that exciting, but I knew that it was obviously a great place to work and a really prestigious role to get in any way you could get your foot in the door there. And so interviewed. I didn't get an internship because at that time they really didn't have a lot of sophomore year interns. But then when I came back junior year and when it was really time to get the internship that I felt like really mattered for me, I think they had already seen my resume once and I was able to at that point then really articulate why it was that I was interested in that role. Also, some of my coursework, even though it wasn't very finance oriented, I was an economics major undergrad, also a double major in environmental studies, but I had some some areas of coursework that I'd done that I think demonstrated the also the sector interest in industrials. And I think that helped. And I also interestingly interviewed early because I was going abroad my, my, my junior, my junior year spring. And so I interviewed really early, which now is like really late. Right? And at that time it was really early. And so I was part of kind of an early decision process, which I think helped me overall, probably.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:27] Did you feel like in terms of interviewing really early and going abroad and well, you said you applied for sophomore and was a compliance. You didn't get that. But then all of a sudden you landed a front office industrial like, Yeah.

Emily: [00:04:40] So I kept I mean, I kept after I kept, I kept trying to network with people and understand more about it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:46] About tell me a little bit more about that. Like when you say networked with people or was it like through on campus? Like, I think it's kind of a it's a very small school, like a small liberal arts school. So was there anything on campus? Is that how you were doing it or were you using LinkedIn at that?

Emily: [00:04:59] There was nothing on campus. And so I was trying to I was networking through people, through alumni, through various personal relationships and kind of any way that I could find in. And so talking to a lot of different people, and even though many of those didn't lead anywhere, they were super helpful just in terms of honing my message and my ability to talk to people about what I was interested in and really helping kind of craft that narrative was really helpful. And so spoke to a ton of people to try and figure that out and was fortunate to find a connection and a way in to get in for that interview. And I think even though I didn't, I certainly didn't come across as all that knowledgeable around finance, I came across as I think passionate about wanting to do a good job and work really hard and wanting to be successful.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:50] Was like really high to assume.

Emily: [00:05:53] No.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:54] No, well, you're good at networking.

Emily: [00:05:55] And no, it wasn't so.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:59] So your GPA wasn't great. You get somehow from a pretty much a non target end up at Goldman. Do you think, like you said, the early recruiting, that's interesting to me. The fact that you were going away you had enough of an in. In the sense we're like, you knew was there one specific person there that was like pushed you through to get that first round interview? That kind of was the key.

Emily: [00:06:20] Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. So I think I think once I got my foot in the door.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:25] But where did you where did you meet that person? Was that just through a friend.

Emily: [00:06:28] Yeah, through a relationship. Someone that helped put me in touch with someone there.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:32] Okay. And then you made a decent impression on him or her such that they helped push your resume into that.

Emily: [00:06:38] Yeah. And again, I think a lot of it came back to I think that interviewing in a way that it demonstrated that I was someone that people could depend on and that I could was really like, you know, would kind of have the grid factor and would work really hard and and do a good job.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:56] You are likable. You are likable and like, oh, she's not going to leave us. She's going to work hard, work long hours. Did you communicate that in the interview, like saying, I know what, this job is really tough and it's long hours. Did you say stuff like that?

Emily: [00:07:08] I mean, it feels like ancient history, but yeah, I'm sure I.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:11] Did 12 years ago. Come on.

Emily: [00:07:14] Yeah. But yes, I'm sure that I did. Like, very look, I'm like. I asked for it, right? I was like, I want this. This is where I want to be. Here's all the reasons I know that. And I was.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:27] I was there. How did you prepare? Just from all the networking conversations you had, you felt like you were you understood what the job was about so that you could go in. You kind of talk, the talk you get there, what's the reality versus like what you heard about and then actually living it? Was it like 80 hours a week, 70 hour weeks where you.

Emily: [00:07:45] I mean, it was it was really intense. Like, I have to think that 2007 investment banking in that environment was was pretty pretty up there in terms of intensity. So, yeah, I mean, I went in and it was it was it was tough. But I feel like for me, I think the interesting thing was coming into that I also didn't grow up in New York. I hadn't really spent time in New York before. I think I came in to a situation where there was a lot of people who had been in undergraduate business programs who were just running circles around me in terms of their technical abilities. And so that was and a lot of people who knew each other or because of the schools that they went to, knew people in the group. And like, I didn't know like how to like I had to figure out how to ride the subway to get to the office. That was a challenge, you know? So.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:35] And where are you from?

Emily: [00:08:37] I grew up on the eastern shore of Maryland, and so I yeah, I kind of showed up and it was it was it was you know, I tried to put all that stuff aside and focus on me and focus on doing a good job and doing the things that I knew how to do and like doing the task at hand.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:55] Was it something where, like halfway through the summer you knew like, this is no way, this is for me? Was it something like you felt like you just had a slow start because you didn't have that undergrad finance background? And like, I had the same issue I was I was a Williams grad. I didn't have even a summer internship. I got to I got into Rothschild and it was just like, oh, like finance, accounting, everything. And then like, modeling. I'm like, What do you mean, build this? What do you mean do this model? And I remember it wasn't until my VP kind of took me under his wing was like, Look, this is what you have to do. And I was like, okay, I was working 80 to 100 hours a week.

Emily: [00:09:29] Consistent. Yeah. No. Yeah, I was all out.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:32] My my question is like, do you feel like it was the timing like, was the offer right really high where you one of only a few that didn't get an offer or was it was it the fact that the timing was like, oh wait, they knew things were kind of heading south, that they didn't give a lot of offers back or what? Or just you didn't measure.

Emily: [00:09:46] I mean, I think they gave you a decent number back. You know, I think there was a handful of people that didn't, you know, that weren't coming back. But I think for me, I think it was I never raised my hand and said, I don't want this, you know. But I think it was clear to me partway through that there were that I should really focus on the things that I was good at and that there were elements of the job that I consistently was told, like you were, you know, like in terms of dealing with the management teams that the companies we were representing or dealing with various clients, people were like, We trust you endlessly on that stuff like you in terms of like managing the process and the people and not letting anything fall, fall through the cracks.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:25] It sounds like you would have been better as an associate.

Emily: [00:10:27] Right? No, And that's and that's exactly the feedback that I got at the time was like, long term, you're going to be great. But like figuring out the next couple of years in terms of the technicals, there's just going to be a steeper learning curve. And I was up for that learning curve. I the math wasn't intimidating to me, but I didn't find that that was what I was really drawn to. Like I wasn't.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:50] You didn't want to live in Excel for two years straight.

Emily: [00:10:53] I just wasn't that just wasn't what was appealing to me. And I wasn't like, look, I'm still not I'm still not interested in what the stock market is doing and all those things. Like it's just not as that wasn't my personal interest area.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:06] And was it a surprise like that summer? What was the most surprising thing was the fact that it. So technical like you are struggling in terms of like the modeling or the technical side, because I could see I mean, it makes sense because you're an EIR now and like you're you're very good with communications and people and you're probably a great writer. Was it something along the lines of the technical stuff? Was. Just like harder than you thought it would be, or is just more people?

Emily: [00:11:33] I don't think I think I came in with a very open mind, not expecting that there was any specific you know, I didn't have an exact expectation of what it would what it would be like. Yeah. But I think coming in, you know, I think once I was inside, I helped me realize what I did and didn't like doing, I think is how I put it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:54] So what didn't you like do in the modeling or the.

Emily: [00:11:57] Yeah. I just wasn't interested in the, in that stuff. I wasn't, I wasn't living for the kind of like thinking about the deals that we were doing and the kind of more technical aspects of it.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:09] Okay. So tell me what your thought process was when you, when, when did you know that you had a good idea that you weren't going to get offered? Did you not know till the end of the summer and middle of the summer.

Emily: [00:12:20] And end of the.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:21] Summer? And then what was your thought process was like, Oh no, like, what am I going to do going into my senior year? Was it your senior year?

Emily: [00:12:27] Yeah, yeah, going to my senior year, Yeah, it was, you know, it was a question of like where where do I go from here? Because that was a fantastic experience. I'm thrilled that I did it. I learned a lot, but it's not I don't think that I want to go out and interview for banking roles. So what elements of the job did I like and how can I double down on those more? And then this came back to the kind of the networking and trying to understand what areas within Finance more broadly would give me that same type of. I mean, I enjoyed the intensity of it, like I enjoyed, you know, people who are really passionate about what they were doing, who are really smart and driven and being getting to work with those people. I liked that, but I didn't see myself as being wanting to follow that path to be a like a private equity investor one day or something like that. That's just not the direction I saw myself going in.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:24] Was your specific reason like is just it just didn't interest you? Like what interested you more when you say what I liked and what I didn't like? Do you like?

Emily: [00:13:31] I think it was more just that I felt like I was good at the and I got feedback that I was good at certain things. And look, when you're good at something and you get feedback that you're good, that feels better than being bad at something, you know.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:43] Like presentations, communicating with management and that type of stuff.

Emily: [00:13:47] That's right. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's exactly right. And I think and I think in particular it was the communicating with senior management and like I remember like during the internship they would send me to go travel to different places and, and help with like tours of these coal mines and things like that. And they knew that I could go do that and do a great job of that and that I really enjoyed having that that relationship with the clients. And so that was something that I felt like I wanted to do more of that kind of thing.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:20] Tell me, as you got back to campus, you already kind of had a pretty strong network because you'd been putting in the groundwork over at least a year or year plus and so. Was it somebody that you had already been in touch with at Lazard? Did somebody from Goldman kind of put you in touch with the person who helped you kind of get your foot in there? And then what was the story you? I think a lot of people who don't get an offer, they feel like life is over. Right. And so I think it's important.

Emily: [00:14:47] I did. Yeah. That was like I did feel a little bit like that right at the time.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:51] Because it's just it's a letdown because you work so hard to get in and it's like, you know, for whatever reason, whether it's a down year, whether it's the economy, whether it's just the group didn't feel like you didn't mesh with the group culturally or whatever, you don't get the offer. And all of a sudden it makes if you're trying if you do want to be in banking, it makes it incredibly difficult to get another offer somewhere else because you have to tell some sort of story of why they didn't want you. So but you kind of took you took a different stance. You said, well, this might not be for me, but I do like finance. I do like the intensity. So let me see if I can go somewhere else. So tell me kind of how you thought about that or how you even knew what this private fund advisory.

Emily: [00:15:28] I mean, I had someone suggested it to me and they said, if that's your skill set, you know, you should probably be in some sort of thinking about a marketing type role. And you can either go into kind of the public route or the private route, you know, and and then from there, I thought that made sense. And so then started reaching out to various public and private sort of marketing type groups and roles.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:50] Like what the Private Fund advisory Group is like what within Lazard? What what did that group do or what was the job?

Emily: [00:15:56] Yeah, so they're a placement agent. So that's what people would refer to to them as. And that's kind of the broad industry. And so lots, most, all the big banks have placement agent groups within them. There's also a lot of other boutique independent placement agents. And what they do is they help private equity firms and real estate and infrastructure firms and credit firms raise money. So those private equity firms generally, they need to go out and raise money every few years or more frequently. And so a lot of times they have in house people like myself. And it used to be ten years ago most firms didn't have as many in-house people, and so they relied more on outside placement agents to help them raise money.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:43] There's some there's some independent placement agents, right, that are pretty large. Correct. That like specializing only in this and I didn't realize that individual banks also have ALM so like at Lazard can you give us a sense of how big that team is. Is it like five people? Is it 2100?

Emily: [00:16:57] I mean when I was there it was 30 people, I think it's now 70 people or something.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:01] Wow. So it's pretty big.

Emily: [00:17:03] Ubs, Credit Suisse, like all the big banks, have those those groups and they're all large.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:09] And I told you I didn't know anything about this space. That's good.

Emily: [00:17:13] And so those those groups all have big people and they hire, you know, analyst classes and, you know, and it's hard for them to to find people because people don't know about those.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:23] So so what are what are the so private fund advisory placement agents what other kind of ways is it named.

Emily: [00:17:30] That's the main one. I mean.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:32] That's the so if you do like a LinkedIn search, private fund advisory is a decent way to potentially find people who are in that group.

Emily: [00:17:41] That's right. Or placement agent Yeah, either one.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:43] Okay. Then do you think it's better to start in a bank at a place and maybe you're biased, but in a division of a bank is a placement agent or to go to a specific shop that only does placement is just a placement agency.

Emily: [00:17:57] I think the experience is probably pretty similar because I think within a big bank, the placement agent groups are usually pretty separate because their their mandates are just different. And you know, there's not a lot like I think in some of the banks they're very separate and some banks are a little bit more kind of integrated with with the bank. But for the most part, it's quite a separate experience. And you'd find that the people in the placement agent group, certainly the junior levels don't know a lot of people outside of their group usually. So I think that the overall experience is probably pretty similar, You know, for for someone coming in as a junior person at a boutique placement agent that's independent versus one that's within the bank.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:38] Got it. So in banking, you're brought in as a junior person. You're kind of put on these deal teams, you're flown to the client, you're putting on doing pitches, you're doing, you're working on live deals. Potentially if you're doing acquisitions, if you're an M&A or doing some sort of analysis for clients for within a placement within the private fund advisory group, within a bank, how should I think about it? You're brought in, Are you similar?

Emily: [00:19:01] The structure is very similar, except for instead of getting staffed on a deal that takes a couple of months, you're usually getting staffed on a fund raising that's going to take a year or longer, depending on me. Hopefully shorter. But it's the assignments with clients tend to be longer, which I enjoyed because then you end up going deeper with those clients. I think also one thing that was helpful in terms of my pivot from banking into into the fundraising was that. While I was in banking, I worked on an IPO and we did a lot of S-1 drafting. And I think that whole process is very similar to the private placement memorandum drafting in in private equity. And so I was able to talk about that process and my contribution to it, why I liked it, really getting to understand the company and how we were presenting it. And it's very similar in terms of on the on the placement agent side. So that just thinking back to it, that was actually a useful thing that I talked a lot about in the interview process and why I thought I would like the job of being a placement agent.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:05] That makes sense. Yes. So the SE one is the document just for the listeners that is prepped for the IPO right before our initial public offering. Right. That has to be released publicly and tells all the risks associated with the with the business and the upside and all that good stuff. So and then PPM private placement memorandum how does that's is that at a fund level, are you guys trying to kind of find LPs that will give money or is it just for private individuals, high net worth?

Emily: [00:20:32] So that's the document that when you're preparing to go to market for a fund, that's kind of the the document that summarizes all those legal risks and all that stuff, but also articulates the story of why it's a compelling fund that an investor should invest in.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:50] So like the the special sauce, so to speak, of this specific strategy or fund. Now, I'm curious for something that's like proprietary, I guess they're confidential memorandums, but is there something like a like did you ever work on like a quantitative fund that I didn't want to give their, like their secrets away and they didn't want to put everything in the PPM and like, they just had to show the track record And.

Emily: [00:21:14] Yeah, so, you know, people include various levels of detail in a private placement memorandum and sometimes they're very detailed and then sometimes they're a little bit less detailed. But, you know, in in private equity, the memorandums are very much confidential and people have different ways of ensuring that those things are kept confidential. And so investors, when they see that and other materials for a fund raising, like they expect those to be quite detailed and explain what the fund does. Like if you're if your returns alone speak for themselves, then that that helps you in terms of not maybe needing to prepare as much, but that's not really how it works in private equity. There's people.

Emily: [00:21:57] Are.

Emily: [00:21:58] Used to putting together a lot of materials and limited partners are used to seeing a lot of materials because they're giving you money that's typically locked up for ten years.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:07] Yes, you were there for a good amount of time, almost four years or over four years. So can you tell me how like what your day to day was like when you first started and how it progressed? I assume you got promoted or started taking on more of a management role versus the beginning? You were doing a lot of the kind of collection and prep document.

Emily: [00:22:24] Yeah, So, so so the way it works that a placement agent is there's typically kind of two main roles within a placement agent. So when you're out marketing, those are the people that are out having relationships with clients and taking kind of products to them and trying to pitch them and sell them on product. When you come into a placement agent as a junior person, your role is usually on the project management side. And so that's why it's what you described earlier on, the kind of banking process being very similar to the placement agent junior kind of process. And so that that role is drafting materials for the fundraise. So the private placement memorandum, the due diligence questionnaire, which is all the questions that people usually ask and putting that together, all of the cash flows on the fund, their track record on their track record information, how you break that down, and then working on the fundraising program in terms of deciding, you know, we have support from existing investors, We don't, you know, here's how attractive we think it will be. Here's how what size target we should set the fundraising expectations and how much money you can really raise. Where do we think this will be attractive US corporate pension funds or Asian sovereign wealth funds? How do we think about that mix and really helping develop all of that in conjunction certainly with the sales team, But the the project management team makes sure that you're you're moving through that process in an orderly way. Everyone's coordinated working, trying to trying to determine which investors are interested, you know, trying to get that group of investors together to come to a closing to actually.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:09] As as an analyst, though, or as a is it called an analyst when you first come in? Yeah. So as an analyst and is there an associate and a VP how should I think of the.

Emily: [00:24:18] Yeah. The structure is is pretty similar to how you would think about a banking structure in terms of that. Associate Analyst, Associate VP. You know, it just depends on the deal team. And but you certainly are going to expect to have an MD, a senior person who's steering that fundraising strategy.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:38] But those MDs and those senior people, their relationships aren't necessarily to companies, but more to LPs that are looking to place money.

Emily: [00:24:45] Well, so there's project management, MDs, who is who I would have reported up into, and then there are kind of distribution MDs who are out there with the relationships. And so it's two sides of the business that work together.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:02] So that's cool. Okay. That makes sense. So there's one there's one like managing director kind of helping get everything together. It's almost like the internal team, the workhorse team to.

Emily: [00:25:12] Execute is being kind of like the the nerve center of the fundraising, right in that project management role where you're you're communicating with the with the fund, the general partner in terms of how things are going or having update calls with them, keeping them updated on good news and bad news. What we need from them. This story is resonating. It's not resonating. How can we adapt that? And then also communicating all that back and forth to the distribution team and saying, okay, great news. They've just exited this business at a great multiple. Like go back out to your investors and tell them that that it helps bolster the story and kind of managing all of that, that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:49] Process that makes a lot of sense. So it's funny because I did a little bit of when I was at Tailwind, I did a little bit of help with the fund raising on Fund two there. So I get I know a little bit of that. I was doing the returns and sending out stuff to LP Yeah, so I lived a little bit of it, but it wasn't my data, it wasn't all of what I was doing. So you were there for a good four years. What do you feel like? When do you feel like it was time to move on in terms of were you looking for a new challenge? Was it something of like, Hey, I've learned a lot here, but I'm not learning as fast? Or was the did you just get approached by a recruiter? What was that whole, I guess, evolution from, Hey, maybe it's time to move on to to when you actually jump to search?

Emily: [00:26:31] Yeah. So I wasn't actively looking to leave. I had I was just kind of head down doing my job, like super, super busy. It was it was having been through the kind of 2008, nine, ten, like it was a time when, you know, things were legally staffed and I was super busy.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:53] We talk about can we talk about pay or at least range of pay? You don't give me exact but like just an idea of what? I assume it's a little bit less than your front office counterpart, the investment banking. But is it like significantly less like the bonus is the salary is a base the same?

Emily: [00:27:07] Yeah. So I think it's going to it varies a lot place to place and I think you'd see you'd be coming in. I think that first year I don't know anymore and kind of what I think when I started it was roughly the same your first year or two and then probably diverged over time. But yeah it's, it's the pay is a little bit less.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:31] 75 base back then it was probably 70 or 75 base and then like a 20 K bonus or ten K bonus or was it like 40 or 50. Do you remember.

Emily: [00:27:40] I don't remember exactly, but I think it was pretty competitive with banking like those first couple of years certainly. And I think.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:48] A slight haircut, but not that dramatic.

Emily: [00:27:51] Right? No, it wasn't that dramatic.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:53] That you're putting. Were you putting it long out? Were you putting in long hours still?

Emily: [00:27:56] Yes, very long hours. Yeah, it was it was very intense because also, I think.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:03] Like 80 hours a week or more.

Emily: [00:28:05] Yeah, I mean, definitely 80 hours a week, sometimes more. I think it was also the other thing, too, that's a little bit different is that, you know, placement agent role and I think you and I are to an extent it's a bit more of a marathon rather than these sprints, right? So I think like I would and I remember because I went through banking training at Lazard and I had friends in banking that they'd be super busy and totally crashed for however like a month and then they would kind of have nothing to do, you know, for like I.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:36] Still have to be in the office till like two in the morning.

Emily: [00:28:39] Maybe hanging around. I'd be like, What are you doing? You know? Whereas I was just kind of like, always, like it was like, always the grind, right? There's always because you've got the client, you always need to be just like, moving forward on that fundraising. And so I think that was that that cadence is probably a little bit different.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:53] Interesting. So were you was it more like steady work from, what, 9:00 AM to like 9 p.m. kind of thing like Monday through Saturday?

Emily: [00:29:01] How I think it would also just depend on the client and where they were in the fundraising.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:05] And also how many were you put on at a time. Two. Three.

Emily: [00:29:09] No, I tried like five or six at a time. But also they're all at different stages. So some are just like in the ramp up and really getting going and then others aren't. And some are easier and some are harder, right? Depending on how how strong stories. And then also some clients are just very different. You know.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:24] I didn't I didn't know we were going to go into the depth of placement agency analyst days. I just to me, it's interesting because. There's not a lot on it on Wall Street.

Emily: [00:29:31] No, I think it is. And look, I remember when I was trying to get into it, there wasn't much. And I still don't think there's there's much out there on it, so. But it also just depends on the types of clients you have. Some are want to know every single detail and are on top of you constantly and they want every update right away. And then others just trust that you're going to do a good job and you want to check in on their weekly call once a week.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:51] So be honest. Are the are the ones that are kind of I'll call them more pain in the ass clients, the ones that are struggling to fundraise. And so they're now micromanaging every aspect. And the ones that are the money's coming in and they know they're going to hit their target. They're more laid back about it.

Emily: [00:30:06] Yeah, I mean, look, when things aren't going well, people tend to want more detail on why that is. And of course, like fundraising in 2000, eight, nine, ten, 11 was tough. Like it was a really tough fundraising environment.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:19] So you had a lot of bad news.

Emily: [00:30:21] To get a lot of bad news, like definitely a time when it was, you know, having to tell GP's a lot that nobody loved their fund. So but things got done. It just took a long time. But it was all about the communication and letting them know why we were doing what we were doing and the pacing and staging and convincing people to be patient.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:43] And I can, I can assume that at junior level you're insulated a little bit from that. But did you see the stress at the senior levels during those years? Because it was hard to get because obviously they're probably paid on your paid as a percentage of the fund raise, Right? Typically.

Emily: [00:30:57] You do get paid that the standard structure is that it's paid on a percentage of the fund raise and that can be structured on a variety of different metrics, but it's usually kind of new money. So you don't typically think of it as the money that the agent raises, because also you always have existing investors and existing relationships. But yeah, that's what I mean. You get paid to raise money, right? You don't get paid just to sign up to try and raise money. It's very success based and it depended on the client too. Sometimes the clients want to go directly to the person at the analyst or the associate level because they know that they're kind of in the flow of all the details, all the time. It just depends on who you're working with.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:33] Okay, so you're there for a while. You're not really looking. Then what happens?

Emily: [00:31:38] Yeah. So, you know, I had been thinking about over time kind of where do I see my career? And I did like the idea of transitioning into being more outward facing with investors. I wasn't quite ready to make the switch and just be a pure sales person. I didn't think that at the time. I didn't know that I would enjoy that. So I was the only thing that would have kind of I wouldn't have gone to another agent. And but the natural next step from being in a placement agent is going to a private equity kind of investor relations role, the same way banking is to a private equity associate role placement agent is to fundraising, associate role at a private equity firm. So that is the the most common next step after a placement agent role. And so I was kind of open to ideas, but definitely not looking. And I someone reached out to me and knew about someone that was looking for someone, and then they ultimately ended up introducing me to Searchlight. And it was a pretty attractive proposition to come here. But it was also they just raised their first fund. So today we have 7 billion in assets under management and 75 people at the firm. When I joined here, it was not so obvious that it was going to be a success. They could raise the first fund. But, you know, I felt like I was at a place.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:06] How big was that first one?

Emily: [00:33:08] 860 million.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:09] Oh, pretty.

Emily: [00:33:09] Big. Yeah. So is a sizable first fund.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:11] Yeah. So it had been de-risked significantly, but not still. Not to the point where you thought.

Emily: [00:33:17] Right. When you think about kind of long term over your career. Right. It's not like you don't come into private equity because you want to be somewhere for a couple of years. You know, it's like ideally you want to be I mean, I think ideally you should want to be there for the long term. And so, you know that I felt like I was in a place in my career where I could do that. And that I thought I was equipped to be successful at the job, which I think is really important. I felt like I was stepping into something that I thought I was capable of doing, even though it was definitely a challenge because I hadn't been out in front of investors before. And that was something that was.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:53] With me about. Tell me about the main differences between going from I assume you were like an associate type role at the when you were at Lazard at the placement agent group.

Emily: [00:34:03] That's right, yeah. I'd been promoted to associate. So I to your standard kind of banking type contract ask they asked me say for a third and then promoted me to associate. So also I felt like I they had treated me well like I didn't want it wasn't like looking to leave. Everything had been good, but felt like this was an interesting opportunity to come in and, you know, to to come in and.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:29] Tell me about how what was the hardest part? What were the biggest differences between the two? I mean, just just so I have an idea. I mean, I know very little about investor relations, too, So this could be educational. Hopefully, I'm not taking up too much of your time.

Emily: [00:34:40] But no, no, I could talk. I'm very happy to talk about all this. I think it's interesting.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:43] Because I think I think there are people actually you say, you know, placement agency, the typical exit is to go to IRR. But I've also heard there are investment bankers who also are interested in this for sure. And so I'd love to hear you give them a little bit of more of a flavour of like the dates and stuff.

Emily: [00:35:01] Yes. No. So I think that if you look at people who are successful investor relation professionals today, you'll the most you'll see a large chunk of those people came from being a placement agent, but just as many came from other things like being investment professionals, being in banking. You know, people do tend to pivot. And I think that's great experience to have because being more technical and having that banking training is a great foundation in the long term for an investor relations role. So I think coming from a placement agent, it's a little easier stepping into an IR role because you kind of know how things work. But having a that technical banking background is super helpful and a lot of people do that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:46] So what part of the job does that make it easier? I mean, is there some technical aspects in terms of like returns and stuff or like.

Emily: [00:35:51] Yeah, and just articulating the strategy and the businesses. So like when I'm out talking to investors, I need to be explaining to them why, why the investments that we make are attractive and how, how those, how we're transforming them. And that's something that yeah, it's like if you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:09] Tell me more about that though, are you like going out to dinner with like random LPs that are in your phone? Like, what is that like every day?

Emily: [00:36:17] Not like a glamorous, like wining and dining job. I think maybe it used to be, but that's kind of not not the way it works now. You know, people expect you to be really credible and really knowledgeable about your firm and organized and thoughtful in how you approach them, you know, be able to answer their questions, whatever those may be. So. Like my role here, and I'll just focus on the investor side of my role as head of investor Relations. But then also I am chief of staff for the firm, so I oversee a lot of other kind of HR and kind of firm management type stuff.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:50] Yeah, let's focus on the IR first.

Emily: [00:36:52] We'll focus on the IR stuff. So I think within that role I'm thinking about a lot of the same things I was thinking about in a place management role setting. When are we coming back to market? How much money can we raise? Where will this be attractive, that writing that PM the diligence questionnaire, how all of that stuff comes together to craft the story? The investor presentation is a really important part of that track record returns. How do we present that? All of those things. But then on top of that, I'm also out actually having conversations with investors about the firm, and that's a.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:26] Big in what context, like how are you arranging these meetings?

Emily: [00:37:31] Like I'm because it's private, I'm reaching out to the private equity person at various limited partners around the world and trying to get in front of them to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:42] Talk to them, just like a database that you guys have built over time and your CRM that that you personally are making that outreach or do you have somebody junior below you helping you make that outreach and then you go to the meeting?

Emily: [00:37:53] I mean, it depends on the person. I mean, also I was a team of one here for.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:56] Over.

Emily: [00:37:57] Four years, so I was doing everything. But typically, if I'm going to go meet with someone, I'm reaching out to them. And but then I have other colleagues now we have five people on the IR team now who are also out kind of doing all the different aspects of this job. But when I think about how do I know who those people are, you know, it's it's that's, that's kind of part of the special sauce in terms of figuring out who the right people are to approach. You know, you certainly know who all of the big state pension funds are. It's public information, what they're doing and who they're investing in. And you can find all that information. But what you don't know is what's of interest to them and what's in there, kind of what what are they looking to do?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:40] And so I assume there's a lot of proprietary knowledge that's built up over the seven plus years you've been there in terms of like, okay, this person is looking for this type of thing. They said no this time around. But look.

Emily: [00:38:50] And why did they say no? Right? They said no when we raised fun to because we hadn't yet realized a bunch of investments in Fund one. But they loved the strategy. Right. And so then when we go to raise fund three, it's like you go back to them and say, hey, you know, look, we've done all the things you wanted us to do. And they say, Great, now we're we're right. So that's exactly right. And so it's about getting in front of all of those different getting in front of the right people and talking to them about.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:17] It's very similar to what you were doing. You're just on the funds. You're just doing it for one fund.

Emily: [00:39:22] Exactly. Exactly.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:23] You're kind of more of the face. Are you doing these meetings like face to face? Are you doing this?

Emily: [00:39:28] Yeah. It's you know, people will do calls, but there's nothing like face to face to be able to judge someone's body language and understand if they're really interested in what you're saying, if they're understanding what you're saying.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:39] Is it hard to get those meetings and like, are you bringing your deck, your pitch for the new fund like out there every time is like the same deck, or are you kind of tailoring it for each one?

Emily: [00:39:49] It depends. I mean, it's mostly the same deck, but the way you talk about it can be different. You know, if someone knows you, sometimes they come and they say, look, I really want to Some people come in and they say, I really want to just focus in on this investment and this sector or this dynamic of the team or whatever.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:09] Why did you guys invest in XYZ? That doesn't make sense. It's not in your wheelhouse or it doesn't seem like it's are you.

Emily: [00:40:15] Explain to me why this is an investment that you thought was attractive, right? And people will come with their own bias, right? Someone may have a ton of experience in that sector and they may have a ton of knowledge. And then there's other people that come in and they want to talk about very high level thoughts on like the firm's investment philosophy at a very high level. So it can be every meeting is very different. And now after having those conversations for so long, I think it got gotten just about every question I could have gotten. But it takes it takes a lot to get.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:47] Through, like, are the people. So your team of five now are the people that are with you in this team. Are they doing meetings with you or are they kind of going parallel, running parallel to you to try and get bigger, more reach?

Emily: [00:40:58] It's a mix. So we have different levels. Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:03] Okay. Just curious, I think it's I think it's interesting to hear. So like, so you get into that meeting sometimes, so you have to know a lot about all the specific deals. You definitely have to be super well versed in the obviously the overall fund strategy, right? Speak eloquently about it. Sound like you know what you're talking about because there's like millions of dollars at stake in terms of whether you.

Emily: [00:41:21] Right. And then the and a lot of times someone from the investment team is in that first meeting and so they're there as well. So that's also sometimes, you know, sometimes the one of our founders is doing most of the talking in that meeting. But to me on the back end to. You know, answering the questions that I may know that I need to answer, but then also be on the back end to follow up and say, hey, we thought that meeting went really well. How do you think about it? Like we're working toward having an X closing on X date. Is that of interest? You know, ask the questions that they maybe didn't feel comfortable asking in that meeting or thought about afterwards, or that their colleague asked them that they didn't have the answer to. And then and then from there, when you build relationships with people. And so it is a very relationship oriented business. It's a long term business. So I meet with someone for years and years before they make an investment, and that's just kind of how it goes.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:15] That's fine. Yeah, it's great.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:16] I mean.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:17] It's a big commitment, right? So I think. It sounds it sounds really interesting, the role. It sounds like it would be kind of a different different side, a little bit more of a marketing hat, a little bit more of somebody who's good public speaking, good with clients. They might enjoy it a little bit more at the junior level, maybe getting even a little more exposure, but a little bit less unlike the heavy financial modeling and none of that stuff.

Emily: [00:42:39] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that it's the other important thing is that, as you mentioned, we were talking about placement agents and kind of back in 2008 and nine, the mix between PE firms having in house i r people like the number of R people at your average private equity firm just continues to increase because private equity fundraising has turn used to be something that you'd come to market every couple of years. You'd go out, you'd meet with people, you raise money, you'd go home, you'd invest it, not really talk to anyone that much for the next couple of years and then come back out again. And now it's you're always in front of investors, always keeping them updated. And so it's really a year, year round. You know, every year.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:20] May be a bigger surge before their fundraise, but it's the investors now expect you to kind of be giving them updates.

Emily: [00:43:27] Right.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:27] Around.

Emily: [00:43:28] Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:29] That is why it's just because people demand more information all the time now and it's just like.

Emily: [00:43:34] The industry matures. You know, people are used to more metrics people want to be tracking and keeping in front of and in terms of fundraising and making sure that you're on people's calendars knowing when you're coming back because they only have so much money to spend every year. And they need to prioritize that to make sure that people know, you know, that. So so I think it's it's a really great place to be within private equity. And I think that it's a really, really rewarding, interesting career path within private equity that doesn't have to be, you.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:05] Know, are you comfortable sharing just ranges of pay for er professionals? And Big Ballpark doesn't have to be what you made, but just what you've heard in the street in terms of like base and bonus.

Emily: [00:44:15] Yeah. Like here's one, here's what I would say, it's a really hard question to answer because and it's important some of the things about getting into a career in this space, I think that because there are fewer people on average at any single fund, there's just less comps in the market. And the role really is different at every firm. So just because, like, you know, there are especially as firms get bigger, like some of the mega funds, you know, they have like 80, 90 people in their placement groups or in their fundraising groups. And so those roles are very divided, just like they are.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:49] At, because I've heard from what I've heard, some of the senior people sometimes are even paid, like if they're really senior, have an amazing track record and are brought in. I've heard sometimes they can be paid like almost as a percentage of the new dollars they bring in, almost similar to like an outside placement agent. Have you heard of that ever happening?

Emily: [00:45:06] Yeah. So I mean that it it can kind of work that way. I mean, the thing is that, you know, the reality is that as you're kind of always fundraising and so yeah, it's like in a year where you fundraise, like you'll have more of like a fundraising bonus maybe and get overpaid in that year. But again, that comes down to like every firm has a different philosophy in terms of how they think about that and how they want to incentivize people.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:30] So if they're recruiting from an investment banking, the pay has to be at least somewhat comparable to investment banking at the level they're pulling out from.

Emily: [00:45:38] Yeah, I mean, it is a different career path, right? So it's like someone. Yeah, it's like, you know.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:43] Like if a second year, like a second year, for example, let's say a second year analyst says, Hey, I don't want to do this investment banking anymore, I'm really interested in investor relations. They interview really well. They their story's excellent. Should they expect a pay cut? And I would probably say, yes, a little bit of a pay cut. But how much assuming they're at, let's say, Middle market bank. And I.

Emily: [00:46:01] Think that I don't think that if you're coming in as like a and this is you know I'm sure like everyone would everyone's have a different opinion on this but I would.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:10] Think the range is super wide. But yeah go ahead.

Emily: [00:46:11] The range is super wide. But I think if you're coming in as a first year fundraising associate, I think you'd still be stepping up from what you were getting paid at a bank as a second year analyst, but you wouldn't be stepping up as much as if you were going into an investment professional.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:27] Role like at a PE fund.

Emily: [00:46:30] Right. I think on average, you're I think that that's probably still.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:34] Like it's maybe just not as an accelerated.

Emily: [00:46:37] That's right.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:37] Okay. Got it.

Emily: [00:46:38] That's right. And the curve flattens out over time. And I think that maybe it's over time your top er professional doesn't get paid as much as a top investment professional certainly.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:51] Because they're not getting care. They're not are they. Are you going.

Emily: [00:46:53] Yeah. I mean typically people would get care but you're not going to get as much right. Because you're, but it's, it's still very it's going to be a very lucrative career path like it's, it's not.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:05] Getting career can be lucrative if the fund as well.

Emily: [00:47:07] Right right no it's it's the pay within investor is very attractive in the scheme of things but it's you know and look it is a bit of a different dynamic in terms of. How? You know what? Generally, it's still not like great work life balance. I worked super hard, my team worked super hard, and I think that's how it is everywhere.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:29] But I think that's because.

Emily: [00:47:30] The pace of an investment professional.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:32] It's not the pace of investment professional or obviously banking. But do you feel like the reason you work so much is because you kind of have two hats now?

Emily: [00:47:40] Yes. Yeah. No. And also I just push my I enjoy what I do and so I push myself to work hard to do that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:48] And you're you're handling are your chief of staff you said.

Emily: [00:47:51] That's correct.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:52] Yeah. You're handling all the like Do you have an HR head of HR as well or do you.

Emily: [00:47:56] Not today. No, Hopefully we will at some point in the future. But so if anybody is like out there who's interviewing for private equity, associate roles like those come through me here at Searchlight. So I manage our associate recruiting process principles. I manage to be careful.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:14] If you say that you're going to get flooded.

Emily: [00:48:15] I know, I know that recruiter. So I can't I can't do all that. But but just in terms of how my role here works, they do. And I think about all of the different hires that we're making and how those all fit together. And I think another important thing that I should mention about the investor relations role is that it also gives you an opportunity to really you know, you mentioned having that senior exposure, which I think is interesting, but then also, you know, really understanding how the firm works in a way that I think your average investment professional doesn't and get exposure to a lot of different things. So I oversee all of our PR efforts. I oversee our ESG, environmental, social governance, investing as part of our diligence process. I actually I oversee our CRM system and kind of think about process management around deals and our managing our deal pipeline. So I get to do a lot of different interesting things here, which I really like. And I think my approach here has always been just kind of take on as much as I can.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:14] And like you're basically running the fun. You're like the you're the top of the operations almost of like the entire fund.

Emily: [00:49:22] I mean, like we have a CFO, one of our founders really kind of oversees that kind of the firm operations.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:27] But they're going to ask you, the founders, are they like investment professionals? So it sounds like one is a CFO. He's like more managing more of the finances.

Emily: [00:49:33] Well, our CFO is separate. So we have three founders who came from Apollo, KKR and Ontario teachers, and they are all investors. But but one of them oversees more of the firm operations than the others do. And then our CFO is another person. We have a whole back office of 20 people who do all of that work.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:52] How big a search light in terms of investment professionals and then.

Emily: [00:49:54] Us about 40 investment professionals.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:56] And then total, how many? 60? 70?

Emily: [00:49:58] About 75 people, 75. Now we have offices in New York, London and Toronto. So we have a transatlantic platform in terms of how we're structured.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:07] So very cool.

Emily: [00:50:10] Yeah. Yeah. So it's been, it's, it's really exciting to.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:14] Well, you're doing lots of different things. It sounds like my day I'm just like podcast and tell you this. It's a little crazy, right? But so tell me a little bit about the HR thing. Was it kind of like the founders saw? You could handle that. So they they were like, Hey, can you handle HR two?

Emily: [00:50:30] Yeah. I mean, I think as we grew, it became clear that we needed to centralize that a bit more, especially as we were growing in fund size and thinking about how the firm was growing over time and needing to have one person be the central kind of funnel point of, you know, how are we hiring people? What does that look like? How many people are we hiring? And also just have everyone feel like there's a place to come to if there are questions And you know that that was kind of the genesis of it. But yeah, it was something that I had. I picked up bits and pieces of along the way and then ultimately ended up kind of taking it on more formally. And I think now that we've grown to where we are, I'll transition that to a new HR person at some point in time to really take that over because it's become that alone has become more than a full time job.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:18] So so question about can we just reverse a little bit because I didn't ask you too much about and then I'll call it, but a little bit about your transition. You talked about how you weren't looking and the opportunity kind of came with searching through through a mutual connection, correct. Like just somebody you knew who kind of said, Hey, introduce you. Did you feel like it was an interview or do you feel like they were just trying to pull you away, like they had targeted you and they knew like, was the interview like, did you have to prep for the.

Emily: [00:51:45] Yeah. Search that was actually running a search process at the time to hire an IR professional And the recruiters for that that they were working with had not called me. So I was not part of that process. But I knew someone who who I actually had previously worked with who said, hey, you should really think about other opportunities. And it was actually a different opportunity. And how would.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:09] The recruiter not call all the people at the placement agents or private advisory groups at all the top funds? Why do you think they didn't call you or where they targeting?

Emily: [00:52:17] You know, I think it's.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:19] They didn't know. I didn't know you were in that.

Emily: [00:52:21] Maybe. Yeah, I think it's. Yeah. So that was. No, it was so.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:28] But you heard through to.

Emily: [00:52:30] Me like I was probably on the younger end of the spectrum of people that they were looking at. But I think the other thing that I should emphasize is that within investor relations, the cultural fit is so important. I think a lot of times what you see is like the job description may not fit you exactly and like you may if you're especially that person that's like two years in banking and thinking about I.R. and you see the job descriptions like prior fundraising or placement agent experience required, like you can get your foot in the door and you're really great cultural fit and you have the right kind of core skill set times. People will be willing to invest in you to kind of train you in that. We did that here with someone that didn't have any prior experience, had done two years in banking, two years in private equity, and wanted to get into I.R.. And so felt like and that's been great. So it's it's much less of a defined process than it is in banking to an investment professional role, for sure.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:24] Fair. Okay. So anything before we call it anything else you would tell your younger self Now, looking back at your long and fruitful career, not too long, but your career so far, anything you kind of look back either in college or in your first year or maybe 2008 when you were.

Emily: [00:53:42] I mean, I think I think when I think back on my career, I you know, I certainly stressed out a lot about doing a good job. Right? I worked really hard, was always focused on just doing whatever was asked of me. And I'm really happy with how everything's turned out. I think I think that there's always an element of of kind of luck in everyone's careers, right. And ending up in the right place. Like if I'd ended up, who knows? Like lots of people who graduate in 2008 got fired very quickly, right. For no fault of their own. And I was fortunate to end up in a group in a place that was supportive of me and that worked out. And so, you know, it would have been nice if I could have told my younger self to maybe relax a little bit more. But I think that sort of.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:31] I have a lot more grades than you do, so don't feel bad. I have like a full on graybeards.

Emily: [00:54:38] I think also to just my I do have two small kids and so I have a one year old and a two year old. And so I feel like I couldn't have imagined that like not that long ago. And so I just didn't even think about it for a long time. And then it's kind of it's kind of amazing now. And I think that that's that's such a big source of pride and joy for me that I've you know, I.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:06] Have I have three kids. I have I have a four year old, a two year old and a one year old. So we're in a similar boat.

Emily: [00:55:10] Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:12] Just for a second. Talk to me about how you manage to do that much. I mean, I know you have more support now with the team being a little bit bigger, but are you able to kind of spend time? How do you balance that? Are you working from home ever or are you do you have you know, I have a nanny. Do you have a nanny? Like how are you balancing that? I think it's interesting for some people.

Emily: [00:55:30] Yeah, no, for sure. So the way I kind of think about it is that, you know, I think I've had to improve my efficiency tremendously. Right? So for me, it's about really thinking about managing every minute of my day and how I spend that and being super efficient around all the different things I'm spending time on so that I can try and maximize the time I have with my kids. Yeah, I do. I have a nanny that's 8 to 6. And you know, for me, you know, my husband doesn't travel for his job. I do travel a fair amount for my job. So I think that's a very good balance, is that one of us is always home in the evening, which is nice. And I think for me, the other thing is that I really do try and leave at a time. 530 6:00 so that I can get home, do dinner with the kids. You know, they're currently at this stage of life, they're in bed 730, and then I pick back up after that from home and I don't kind of tend to work from home during the day. I kind of need to be in the office. I have a lot of meetings, especially with my chief of staff. There's just a lot of stuff going on. And part of here, especially having a team of five people, right, I need to be here, but I do try and leave, go home, have dinner, and then in the evening do what I can from home. Prior to having kids, I was one of those people who was always in the office super late. I'm a night owl. I was always happy to stay here, you know, later than I like.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:59] I got to get out. I got to get out.

Emily: [00:57:01] Right. But now, right now I know I go home and do that and I kind of pick back up afterwards. And then on the weekends I try and really make sure that I maximize the time with my kids on the weekends.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:13] It's hard. It's really hard. We're like, we're in a different with with the third one, I'm telling you, it's a game changer.

Emily: [00:57:20] I've heard that. I've heard that.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:22] You're like all three are sick right now. So we're just it's just like, yeah, Anyways, I'm not sleeping much. I feel like I'm back in my banking days.

Emily: [00:57:29] But yeah, well, actually I will say I think that like going through a really tough work environment is great training for having kids because it's always be like, Oh my gosh, it's so exhausting, it's so crazy. It's like I think just a lot of people have never been up at 3:00 in the morning and it's like, No, I've been up at two or 3:00 in the morning. A lot like this is, you know, these are hours that I'm used to so that that maybe didn't feel quite so far.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:52] To sleep deprivation in pain. So.

Emily: [00:57:54] Right, right, right, exactly. Exactly. So but it's wonderful. And yeah, I think that one other thing I thought of that I wanted to touch on is is I thought about my career transition to search light. We talked about some of the kind of career drivers and why I wanted to do that. But the other thing was that I really believed in the people at the firm and that they would be successful. And so even though there was that kind of that element of risk, I thought they were nice people. I thought they were good people who I really respected as investors and felt confident in them. I think that's so important, especially as people think about going into kind of a newer kind of startup because I think it's attractive to go into a, you know, a younger firm. But I think that diligence, seeing those people and doing whatever you can to find out about them and knowing that they're kind of good people that you're aligned with around kind of your core values and kind of how you think about life, I just think is really important and something that in hindsight and, you know, I feel really fortunate that all that stuff was kind of worked out and it's something I thought about at the time, but it's all been true. And so just as people think about taking those career risks, there's kind of like your career and what I can do for your career, but also making sure that you just like the people that you're working with because it's really important you spend a lot of time with them.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:12] Yeah, and that could take patience. I mean, I think I made the mistake of jumping from my investment banking job to a private equity job in Boston, which I thought was my dream job. And I got fired within six months. So a lot of people, a lot of people know that story. But I'll say that for another day. But yeah, I agree with you. You got to be patient. You got to do your diligence, make sure that the fund is in good shape, that things are going the right way. Yeah, Yeah.

Emily: [00:59:34] Think about really think about the long term. Right. Private equity is a very long term business. And think about that kind of where do you want to be in ten or 15 years and are you and the firm aligned around that?

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:44] That's great. Well, Emily, thanks so much for taking the time out of your precious hours and.

Emily: [00:59:49] I really enjoyed it. It was nice to chat about all these things. Hopefully it's helpful to someone.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:54] Yeah, I think it will be. It's been fun.

Emily: [00:59:55] Thank you. Okay. Thanks so.

Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:57] Much. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time

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