WSO Podcast | E86: Goldman M&A in Paris - Private Equity - Tech Startup
About
In this episode, Gaurav-Goel shares hit path from the ultra-competitive Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) to ECSP Business School in Paris for his Masters in Management. Learn how this degree differs from an MBA, the opportunities it affords during the gap year and how Gaurav leveraged it to land multiple top internships at large investment banks.
Hear about his struggles to get his first break trying to stay in Paris speaking French and how once he broke through he was able to perform at the top of his internship class to get multiple full-time offers. Eventually, accepting an offer at Goldman in M&A in Paris, he stayed there for 7 years before jumping to Astorg Partners, a highly successful private equity fund in Europe. Learn why he wasn't able to save much when making hundreds of thousands of Euros each year, why he left to found his own start-up after a few years and what's in store for him next...
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WSO Podcast (Episode 86) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis. Your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me as I talk to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, Gaurav Goel shares his path from the ultra competitive Indian Institute of Technology to Exp Business School in Paris for his master's in management. Learn how this degree differs from an MBA, the opportunities it affords during the gap year, and how Gaurav leveraged it to land multiple top internships at large investment banks here about his struggles to get his first break trying to stay in Paris, speaking French and how, once he broke through, he was able to perform at the top of his internship class to get multiple full time offers. Eventually, he accepted an offer at Goldman for an M&A in Paris. He stayed there for seven years before jumping to Osterberg Partners, a highly successful private equity fund in Europe. Learn why he wasn't able to save much when making hundreds of thousands of euros each year. Why he left to found his own startup after a few years and what's in store for him next? Enjoy. Sara, thanks so much for joining the Wall Street Voices podcast.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:01:28] It's my pleasure, Patrick,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:29] To be great if you could just give the listeners a short summary of your bio.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:01:33] Absolutely. So to start with, I did my engineering from it in India, then I did management from Nicole in Paris. That's when I entered a summer internship at Goldman, started doing M&a as an analyst in 2008 at Goldman, did
stay there for seven years with brief stints in London and then left Goldman for private
equity at Asphaug for three years. And I had that my personal frustration, which led me to create my own tech startup
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:09] Two years ago. Very cool. So let's start all the way back at eight. I'm sorry, let's start all the way back at undergrad, yeah, sure.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:02:17] My pleasure. Yeah, absolutely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:18] So when you're going to I.T., I know it's considered it's incredibly difficult to get into number one, correct?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:02:24] Yeah, it is.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:25] So you get in. That's the big hurdle.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:02:28] Yeah, absolutely. I think the biggest hurdle is to get in there. And once you are in, of course, it's competitive. It's tough, but it's much easier than the entrance examination. Now tell me about
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:41] In terms of your options there you had you were in electrical Engineering, but did you have are there finance tracks? What's the offering?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:02:49] No. So the offering for the engineering track is mainly like engineering from computer science, electronics all the way to civil textile. People have their own preferences, choose based on rankings and all that. But within those course
offerings, there is, of course, there's also a management school at I-80, and you can definitely get some courses in management. Did you do that? I did some courses in management. Yes. Ok. And then when entrepreneurship?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:20] Yes. When were you thinking about business school? How what year were you always kind of gung ho and knew you wanted you were interested in business? Or was it something that kind of developed?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:03:27] Yeah. So actually, I come from an entrepreneurial family, so all my ancestors and my parents have been entrepreneurs, and I wanted to do finance actually quite early because my dad was in a business where he bought and sold some his of the company assets. And so I knew quite early that I want to do finance. But in India, it's kind of like, you know, it's like, it's kind of thing you need to do it if you're aiming for something higher. So it was the thing to do. So I did it. And then I know that Immediately after it, that's kind of my gateway to management school, either I am or abroad. And mainly that will give me a good foothold to study finance and do what I want to do. Is it typical
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:17] To study and still kind of focus on an engineering track, but still go finance after? Is that typical there?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:04:24] It is quite common, yes. I mean, a lot of agents, they do management after that, of course. I mean, I do go at the end, either for engineering master's or for management masters.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:38] So tell me, is it more common? Was the MBA on your radar was like an MBA and either you're somewhere in Europe or the U.S..
Gaurav-Goel: [00:04:48] My father was literally for management in Europe, and there was several reasons I wanted. I was I always wanted to learn a European language, so I was either German or French and just wanted to have my own track, rather than just going either to London or to the US, which very often do happen. But for me, it was mainly either Germany or France. And then I came to Paris. I fell in love with the city, and I know that I'm going to choose the school there and be a part of that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:22] So you knew you wanted to learn a second language. So that kind of either German or French. And so you narrowed it down to and you knew a master's in management, not a master's in business? No, exactly. Can you tell me the difference? Kind of. Just for the listeners who aren't familiar with the master's in management, like how that how that's different or similar to an MBA?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:05:45] Absolutely. So the difference is also it's also related to culture in France. If you do these ground calls where they offer Master's in management as well as an MBA, the course is over two to three years for first of all, master's in management, and it is more coveted. It's more accepted within France. So when I did my due diligence for me, the point was OK, if I'm going to do an MBA. So first of all, what is the value of that MBA? And second, how is it compared to the Grand Ecole Master's in management? So the difference also lies in your. Classmates, the experience they have and the experience they bring in, so in masters and management, mainly the students we had for either undergrads, and they were continuing their studies to the fourth year, whereas for an MBA, you will have people who have done like three or four years of work experience and an undergrad study and come across. Got it for me when I when I had to make a decision, whether it's going to be an MBA or masters in management in France, as I said, like for me, I was very determined to be in Paris. I wanted to really learn that language. And so for when I did my due diligence, I was looking at the key schools, key business schools and the two out of the two business schools, I should say. And. I chose ESP because it was in the heart of Paris. Very well known course, very well as a good school. So that's why I chose this.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:24] Did you actually learn how to speak French?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:07:26] Oh, yeah. Well, I'm French now, so it took me three to
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:30] Four years. You're a citizen.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:07:32] Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:33] That's awesome. That's awesome.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:07:36] Cool. It's really amazing.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:37] And how is your English so good? Just growing up? You spoke at all? Yeah, absolutely.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:07:42] You know, like in India, English is quite
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:45] Like, it's basically, yeah,
Gaurav-Goel: [00:07:47] First. Yeah, my parents spoke with me in English and from the very early childhood.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:53] And so you're kind of you make this decision. You're going to be in the heart of heart of Paris. Not a bad place to be an amazing city. And you're given the good part about the master's in management. Yes, it's a little bit more kind of younger people, but you're given a little bit more time to do internships, it looks like. So you really took advantage of that time. Absolutely, right. You go
Gaurav-Goel: [00:08:17] Because master management, what it does is if at the end it brings you to that level, it gives you opportunities to have a year or two years of internships. And those internships in Europe are actually quite like it's literally like hands on job. It's like literally like junior analysts. You're working. So it brings you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:37] Up there long. I can see they're really long. Yeah, eight months.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:08:40] Six months. Yeah, six months. Nine months, one year is quite common. And if you look at in Germany, there's even more like people do even more internships there. So in France, it's like common to have one or two years of gap doing internships. And that's what I did.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:56] Tell me about specifically. So it's almost like a job because you're there for so long. But tell me a little bit about specifically, did you see it as narrowing, narrowing your options by accepting certain internships, like because it turns into a full time job, like here in the U.S.? Or is it seen more as exploratory?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:09:15] No, definitely not. So if you do your internship at the first tier candidate, then you don't have, like, full time offers. So those are more like learning exploratory. You learn to see what the job entails. Then the second and third year internships, that's when things get serious. And so I did my internship after the second year like one year gap. And those internships are like full fledged jobs. So you are working literally like Asana as an analyst, you are given same responsibilities as an analyst in a bank. And most of them can convert to full time jobs. Great.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:57] So you Did. I think you were at SoC Gen, right?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:10:01] For oh I did eight months and Societe Generale four on equity research in food retail. Then I did a six months at BNP Paribas in M&A.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:11] Is this all while you're taking classes too? No, this is pure gap here. Their gap year, OK? Gap year. So you actually take time off before enrolling your
Gaurav-Goel: [00:10:20] Final year? Absolutely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:21] And this is standard. This isn't looked down upon or weird or anything like,
Gaurav-Goel: [00:10:24] Oh no, this is actually this is very encouraged. I mean, if you don't do these internships, then you will definitely have trouble finding the right job. Ok? Also, the point is like, you know, like the classes are quite young, students are quite young, so they are from year one. They are encouraged to do all sorts of job experiences, internships, apprenticeships.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:42] I think that makes a ton of sense. I guess my question is that process of even getting those internships, I assume SoC Gen or BNP or Goldman getting those really hard even if it's a gap year. So tell me about that whole recruiting process. Yes, you went to it. Is it after you have been accepted to the business school that they start looking at you and your choice?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:11:03] Absolutely. So I got into it, then I got into SVP. I remember applying for the internships. The first year didn't wasn't very successful, actually, because two things either the language and also the competition, because now I was competing against people who are third year analysts who have already done a year of internships in finance. And if you don't have that first. Internship in finance, it's quite tough to get it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:33] So how did you get that first one?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:11:35] It's persistence. You just keep on applying and at some opportunities you get to do, you get to perform well. You learn from every interview.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:45] But did you did you like you have this gap year before you start your master's in management, right?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:11:52] Or no? No. Oh, during. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:54] So you do a year and then you have a whole gap year in the middle. Exactly. God, OK, I'm getting it now. So what happens if you do the year of school and then you have the gap year and in that gap year, you can't find anything decent. You just take whatever you can get at some point or what? Well, no,
Gaurav-Goel: [00:12:10] That depends on
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:11] How do the bad time? It was a bad time. Well, no. The economy hadn't cratered yet
Gaurav-Goel: [00:12:16] To two thousand six and seven the best financial year. I can tell you a lot about my internship experience during that amazing boom because the summer of 2007. Yeah, but answering your question, so the second year when I started, I had a lot of finance courses. I knew specialization. You learn a lot and you start applying because the application process starts in actually August September for summer internships and all that thing. Yeah. So you start applying, you start learning from the interviews. Of course, there's vault guide and all those kind of special tools
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:50] Or the Wall Street Oasis guides
Gaurav-Goel: [00:12:52] All the way. Absolutely. Just kidding. No, absolutely. Those are amazing. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they are amazing. I completely agree. And then. Come across, if you don't get internship, which can happen, yeah, you see whether you want to stay in that particular stream or you want to change a stream or in worst case, you can continue your studies, it's you can finish your third year and still apply. Keep on applying the internships because these are both off cycle on cycle internships, so the time depends from every company to every company. You can start in January, March, April, June, whatever at the end.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:30] So, so how many? How many interviews did you have to do before you got good at it? And are you starting like so you were you were prepping with the with the ball guys and stuff like that, but I assume the reps of the actual interviews helped you a lot more.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:13:44] Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, theoretical knowledge is Theoretical knowledge, but then you go and do the real interview. It's very different.
and even a foreign internship, it's very different. So of course, they will ask you some theoretical questions, but it's a little bit different at an interview. You are really they given more practical problem and then you need to solve those practical problems.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:09] Give an example of something that threw you off initially. Oh yeah. And it was a long time, long time. Yeah.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:14:15] No, I can. I can. I can say, like I can say, like when I was applying for my internships in one of my interviews, it was EPS accretion dilution and
something related to forgetting the question. Exactly. But something was if there was a government funding, how it would go out on the balance sheet and all those like all these kind of questions, which you normally don't do in finance courses at that and the accretion dilution you can definitely do on that was done in business classes in finance classes, but depends also at which level either in the third year or in the second year.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:53] So you also have an understanding conceptually what that means, so that one sort of throw a wrinkle in the question you're not completely.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:15:01] That's the point. Like, there's always something tricky. And then of course, there's Wall Street questions about trading multiple transaction multiples. Those were quite easy during that time, so that's OK. But where I had trouble was the French language, because in Senegal
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:19] And in French, all these interviews
Gaurav-Goel: [00:15:22] Like I wanted, the point is like I really wanted to stay in Paris. So I had refused all the internships in London, and I even refused Goldman for London, actually. Wow. I had an offer for Goldman in London, but I said no. And as a result,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:36] You really love Paris.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:15:37] Yeah, I do.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:39] So wait, are you in London right now?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:15:42] Right now I'm in London, but going back to Paris, but I had to move because of my business. I have my business right now in three different cities. Got it. Ok. So it was. So that was one of the reasons that I was getting rejection at the end because they're saying, ok, you know, it's Paris office. Small, everybody speaks French, So you need to speak French and write in French and all that. So it was taking me time to get that proficiency level right. But I can even remember, like I was at some point even desperate to do some other finance internship, not M&A. But like I even applied for sales and trade sales, not training, but sales. Mm hmm. Horrible experience. So why?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:24] Why was that horrible?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:16:26] No, the interview was hardly stressing to you. Yeah, very stressful. Tell me why. One of the banks like, yeah, they were like, ok, you need to sell me this, this equity. And then somebody else entered into the room. It was a stress interview and it was like, ok, no, I don't. I don't agree what you're saying. It's complete bullshit. The stock is x y z. It's not performing at all. Look at the matrix and said, Look, look at the metric. This is what you say. So I was trying it, but there was a very massive they wanted to see until what level I will be client focused and accept the aggressiveness on the client side from the client side. Yeah, I think that was the point.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:12] What's the right way to handle that? Do you think? Just keep going, just keep going? Yeah, don't
Gaurav-Goel: [00:17:16] Lose. Don't lose your cool or yeah, yeah, absolutely. Which I did, of course, which I did. Of course you lost
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:22] Your cool or you lost or
Gaurav-Goel: [00:17:24] I lost my cool. Yeah, I was defending the fact that you're given to me. And I said no. Like, yeah, at some point it became a bit more heated debate. And which for sales, I agreed, shouldn't have been the case. But you know, like you learn from those things. So I learned, but I learned one thing that I'm not going to have sales internship. So it's like, OK. Yeah, exactly. So I said, Look, I know I like M&A, I like banking, so I'm going to focus on that. And then I saw this opportunity at Celgene under equity research, which is basically the same thing as corporate finance. You go build like de valuation models, trading comps and transaction comps. So that was a perfect gateway for me. And the moment I got that internship in Celgene within, I think within two months I got my internship At BNP, at BNP
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:23] And then, you know, you're off to the races at that point
Gaurav-Goel: [00:18:25] And then absolutely was OK. And then I applied for Goldman, a summer internship. I got Goldman summer internship and which was amazing. Like all of these internships were amazing, learnt a lot. But then I had already an offer from BNP for M&A in Paris, and then I got an offer from Goldman to join as an analyst in London.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:46] Why do you think you did so well on these internships? I assume they don't give offers to everybody. No. So tell me why you not even being fully fluent? Yeah. Why did they want you so bad? Well, because because to be
Gaurav-Goel: [00:19:00] This,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:01] You don't don't worry about bragging or being modest. I want to know why you think you excelled in your interest class because it's clear to me like you struggle to even get that initial internship. But once you had it, it was like it quickly steamrolled into you getting multiple offers. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:19:17] Yeah. All full time offers. And I think one of the key factor to success there was performance. I think, really like learning the job. I was making sure that it was twenty six and twenty seven, so working hours were really, really tough.
I didn't show any discontent on that part.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:39] So working you were in at nine a.m. and going home at what
Gaurav-Goel: [00:19:42] I could do research. I was there at six a.m., six
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:44] A.m. and going home at what time
Gaurav-Goel: [00:19:47] For I research, I was going home at seven eight p.m.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:49] Ok, so like 14 hour days? Yeah. Is that five days a week or is that
Gaurav-Goel: [00:19:53] I could do so just four days a
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:54] Week, OK? So and then once you got to BNP, was it worse?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:19:58] That was seven days. Absolutely not. 8:30 a.m. to two. Three a.m. Almost every day. Weekends, almost intuitive. So yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:08] You're I think you're clocking close to one hundred there.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:20:10] Yeah. Oh, more than that, I would think.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:13] Yeah, over a hundred hours a week, OK? So so that internship was brutal. This is 07. The market was hot. There were so many deals.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:20:20] There was deals all the way, like literally anything. Also because you are learning a lot. And if you're learning, I think that's one of the things I will also advise all intern applicants is team effort. The most important thing is to learn from the team. And if you have a question, I don't think so. Anybody, any junior or any analyst or associate have a problem answering that. It's just that you need to be upfront
And don't hesitate in asking questions, because that shows two things first of all, that you're eager to learn. And second, you're trying to give a good result at the end and you're making. Relationships are bonding with the team and all that really captures because you want to you will be working 12 14 hours with the team. Everybody wants to work with the right person. So team is very, very important and that was the focus. Absolutely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:19] How did you go about asking those questions when you were lost, when you were? I know you can do it. But did you ever feel like shoot up already asked us before? I should know this. And how did you research it? I think very often and aggressive, like, how did you get that? Yeah. Ok, so how do you?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:21:35] I just I just, oh, I don't know. Like, I literally go, went and ask the question as I didn't hesitate and ask a question, even if it could be second time or third time. Like, OK, I'm not going asking that question to a partner, but I'm asking that question to analyst or an associate. And frankly, I think everybody likes to spread that knowledge like very rarely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:59] And if you're sharp, which you are because you got into I.A., I assume you were picking things up relatively fast and then quickly started at about adding value.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:22:07] Absolutely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:08] And like fast and working long hours and not trying to get out and just being there.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:22:13] Yeah, I mean, I can say, like in equity research, I built a valuation model. I did the first whole analyst report by myself. And while a lot of things, of course, the analyst for equity research analysts would fully validated read it is. But I
was given the opportunity to write it, get some trading multiples valuations because they could see that I was detail oriented. There was proper backups. There was proper things they could easily check sources of.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:42] Your formatting wasn't too bad.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:22:43] Oh, absolutely no. Yeah, formatting wasn't bad. Comas were there. Full stops were there where they were supposed to be
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:50] In your native language? Yeah, exactly. That's incredible, man. Yeah, that's really, really impressive. So had you been taking courses in French for how long prior to to moving to Paris? Um, I think a year, year, year and a half, you only have been taking courses for a year and a half. Yeah, and you got this in your head that you want to learn French. Yeah, you went and somehow managed to compete against all the other French nationals and work 100 hours a week and landed. I mean, that's incredible. It sounds like similar to my mom who moved to this country when she was 12, was in high, graduated high school and went to college at 16. Because her mom pushed her so hard to go there like, Oh, we don't have room in seventh grade, so we'll put her in sixth. Or she's like, No, put her in eighth.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:23:35] That is tough. That is really tough.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:37] And she didn't know English that well, you know, and so it's interesting that you were able to.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:23:42] That's tough because, yeah, because if you are like young at that age, if you are like skipping and you're like promoting one class up, that's a lot to grasp. Grasp. Well, I mean, you being able to
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:53] Compete with and learning later.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:23:55] So late? Yeah, it was like, look, the language of finance is actually English, but still internally, the teams speak French. And that's what, like all the refusals I got, like at some point, I was like very angry and desperate, like I was getting those refusals. But these banks, they gave me opportunity because they were very good. They understood the potential. And like even at BNP, I was managing like oil and gas merger models for really big transactions. Yeah. And which they normally don't even give to analysts. So that was kind of trust I had gained from my from my team.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:32] So why do you think you were given so much trust, so fast? I mean, because you're only being? Was it? Was it just because you were a whiz kid? And they knew that somehow because of your scores and other things?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:24:45] I mean, first of all, yes, I was learning quite fast like I could go. I could build a model, but I was determined to like, How did
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:53] You communicate that like you were actually presenting work to them? That was, yeah.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:24:57] So when I when like when the work was given, I would say, OK, this is work. I will do it. I would ask, do you need something even more out of it?
And before leaving, I would ask my analyst and associate, Is there something else I can do to help the team? I would sit down and say, OK, can you show me the merger model? This interests me. Like I remember, like especially for oil and gas, I was like, OK, this model of upstream production and how the cash flows come from it interests me a lot. Can you show me? So he showed me. I said, OK, can I take care in the next project? Can you? Can I be a part of it? He said, OK, yeah, let's let's do it. So I was part of the next project and then he then I started taking some responsibilities from him and I was delivering on those responsibilities. I was my backups were ready, and I was really up front about speaking about those things, what I want to learn. And for that and the team liked it because
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:49] What everybody like you are hungry.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:25:52] Yeah, definitely. And I mean, That's a key aspect in all Banking part, right? If your team is supportive and they can, you can give some work to them. It's basically you are free and you can take some more senior responsibilities. Yeah. And that's all across the chain, like from analysts associate VP partner, M.D.
So everybody wants somebody who has who can offload a part of the work.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:18] Did you feel like that first year in business school? Were you doing self studying outside of classes? How do you think you were so ready for like, just excel, work and all that stuff? Because it takes I think it takes at least a month or two to ramp up and really become efficient, and you must have been efficient right away.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:26:32] Yeah. On the on the excel I was, I was.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:36] You were a monster in Excel.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:26:37] Yeah, yeah, I was. I was basically I was just
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:41] Playing like, You're not using your mouse?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:26:44] Oh, definitely not. It was. Yeah, I mean, you know, like in banking, right? The mouse just slows you down. So, yeah, I was really working that I was just playing with it. Even during my first year at business school, I was just playing the deck, so I was working on models and so I can tell you like I was. My first year exams were not in finance, I mean, they were good, but could have always been better.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:08] Yeah, well, I think you
Gaurav-Goel: [00:27:10] Were all I learned was in the job. Every internship changed everything. That's when I knew what finance is, why it's so. Attractive, what makes transactions so attractive and all that thing was a job.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:25] So once you had that M&A advisory job in Paris from Goldman, did you feel like, OK, this is my job to lose? You feel like you had to repeat the incredible progress you had at BNP? But you had to you had to just go in because you were
Gaurav-Goel: [00:27:42] So first, I had this BNP right, which is in Paris, then I got this Goldman offer from London, which I refused. They made Goldman offer for me in Paris then. Then I joined Goldman in Paris. I was the only person who didn't speak French. And in the whole team, that internship was, I think, the most, except for my entrepreneurship career. That was the toughest ever. Like, ten weeks, eight weeks to Be precise was just brutal. Literally brutal. But I had a good support
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:15] From the toodle in terms of just pure hours. You just didn't really.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:28:19] Yeah, literally. And you know, this is I'm talking about summer of two thousand seven. Yeah, finance industry was it's at its peak, they were transactions which were being refused. Just team didn't have capacity. Yeah. And the reason I loved Goldman and I want to say that emphasize it because day one, the two partners in Paris, they were amazing. They literally said, Look, if you finish the work at 7:00, you go home at 7:00. We don't want anybody doing face timing. And they literally meant it. Yeah. They literally meant it. And at some point they will come to your desk and say, OK, what are you working on? Look, this thing can wait until the next day. You can leave. There was scenarios, but that
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:59] Didn't happen, I mean, it was three months. You guys are so busy
Gaurav-Goel: [00:29:02] Once or twice it happened, but yeah, like you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:05] Can, but you're like, actually, there's this five other deals I haven't started.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:29:08] Exactly. Absolutely. You will give the excuse. They'll say, Oh,
Whatever, but where it impressed me was, I remember this major transaction working there and there was this partner and the whole team had been doing like four a.m., five a.m. every day. But this partner saw the team has been struggling and there was something needed to be done. So we worked with the partner until four a.m. and he did the model. He literally did an amazing model just by himself until four a.m., and he sent it to the team and said, Look, I hope it helps. It was perfect. Yeah, and he saw it and that, you know, this kind of inspiration is amazing because you see, like senior partners are working with you until four a.m. and they are not like, OK, actual model, I'm not going to touch it. They were hands on. They were literally hands on. And that inspired a lot. So you want to work more? Are more transactions coming in that summer itself? I worked on three transactions,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:07] So for three months? Yeah, yeah, it's crazy.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:30:10] So, yeah, I loved it. I absolutely love that internship.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:12] So you knew this is kind of what you want to do? Did the team obviously loved you because you worked so hard, you just knew you had to go back and finish school? One more? Yeah, exactly. Oh yes. Then I had my offer from Goldman and then my final year at my school was, yeah, it was a piece of cake. I was enjoying it. I was really having fun. It was kind
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:30] Of like the calm before the storm, before you started back up. And so tell me it was interesting because then you joined in Paris as a as an analyst in July 2008. Tell me what was going on in the world in July 2008? Oh Jesus,
Gaurav-Goel: [00:30:46] We know before joining. So our joining date was around 14 to July 2008. We know before joining, things have been completely south like a lot of my friends had already lost, like few of my friends who were joining a different banks and two of them had already received pink slip even before joining offers rescinded. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so they were like a month before, so they had finished school. They were all were happy and just a month before starting their training. They said, OK, no, there's no job.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:21] This is in London. Most of their jobs.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:31:23] Oh yeah. Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:26] So it had already started hitting.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:31:29] Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, like I joined Goldman training for end of July, and from day one, I think the message was we will survive the crisis. You will feel that how strong the firm is and you will be stronger after this crisis. So don't worry. That was kind of a message which was portrayed in training like every day. And when you hear that, it gives you confidence. But then in the newspapers, those was banks which were filing all those things, you know, like bankruptcies and all sorts of things which are going complete mayhem in September two thousand eight. Yeah, but at the end, Goldman, at least I would say things didn't impact that much for the analyst class, which is joining. Yeah, but I can say, like the fear was there. Of course, everybody was scared. What's going to happen? There were rumors, all sorts of things. How big is that team? An M&A advisory and an advisory? So. So when I joined, we were one hundred analysts in Europe.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:38] You dominate. But what about the Paris?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:32:41] In Paris, we were zero, five five. Yes, we're pretty small. So it's really tight knit, I assume. Yeah, absolutely so. In Paris, the whole the team size total was, I think, around 15 15 to 20 bankers, depending on the year and five like this, our class was the biggest class with five analysts. Then they started, But
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:06] They didn't let go of. They didn't like opening beer. Sorry, they didn't fire any of you. Any of that? No, not
Gaurav-Goel: [00:33:14] Not even in London. I mean, I think some of the teams, some of the analysts who joined with us, they were given options to join other teams because maybe the team was cutting down in time. But they were. All of them were given different options, I think. But I don't think so. Anybody was said, as you said, like nobody's offer was taken away.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:35] That's great. I assume the bonuses were still pretty low because the deal flow was, yeah,
Gaurav-Goel: [00:33:39] Don't get me started on that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:40] The bonuses, so were you still working long hours? Was there at least a reprieve with a lower deal flow? Or was it just pitching
Gaurav-Goel: [00:33:47] And pitching? Oh yeah, it's completely so. I mean, and M&A, the whole thing is. If you have a lot of transactions, you're working, and if you don't have transactions, you're pitching and you're pitching more than ever before, so you're like, keep on going, keep on going. So yeah, so I saw both like the phase was a lot of pitching, but sorry and a lot of transactions going as well during my seven years, then the period of IPO came as well. So the two IPOs. So it was good. Like, very good, very good experience.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:23] So yeah, you went you eventually became an associate right straight promo. Yeah, that after three years. Yeah. I mean, is that standard or what? What happened to you
Gaurav-Goel: [00:34:33] At that time? It was like two years analysts. Then you would be promoted based on your performance, either you'll be promoted or leave to third year analyst. And then from 30 analysts, there was another performance review to make sure that you are joining as an associate or not, and then as an associate and then associate for three or three and a half years, then the whole cycle, right, BP and things. But this has now changed. Now I think it's two years of associate and there's a lot of mobility programs included. All those things. So it's a bit more different now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:11] Yeah, two years an analyst. And then they do accelerated, promotes and stuff like that. Tell me a little bit about how things kind of shifted over your seven years there in terms of, like you said, the deal flow started. You were pitching a lot at first because you're in the depths of the financial crisis. I assume by 2011 12 it started getting better and deal flow started picking up.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:35:30] Absolutely. I mean, there was
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:33] There are still deals you did.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:35:34] There were definitely deals as well. Like even two thousand eight, I was working on some very big transaction, like it was 40 million M&A transaction, which didn't happen at the end, but it almost came close to it. So there was
transactions which are definitely happening, but there was definitely more pitching not only for M&A but also pitching for, you know, like refinancing. Some of that or restructuring was there as well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:01] Because I was in Rothschild, I was at Rothschild restructuring from 02 to oh, nice during a downturn, so we were busy.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:36:08] So you would have been very busy with that. Yeah. Restructuring requires a lot of modeling and lot of crazy negotiations with them
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:18] And their long. And the engagements are long and it's ugly. And it's the number of scenarios you can run with these crazy capital structures becomes unless
Gaurav-Goel: [00:36:29] Absolutely, absolutely like small thing, OK, if we do change the twenty five basis points and then
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:35] You add a cash sweep at this quarter? Yeah, yeah. So the modeling we did was insane. But the so in terms of our so it was still really long hours. Eighty four
Gaurav-Goel: [00:36:50] Weeks,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:51] Three or seven years or once you were an associate, did it go down a little bit or no?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:36:55] Not much. I would say it did go down a little bit at the end, but that time you are now preparing for like because the responsibilities change as well, right? The only way you can have a good promotions, everything is that if you as soon as you are comfortable or you get the day to day job of your current role, you can do it good. That's when you start asking for more. And as a result, like as a two year analyst, you are working on Excel models. You want to perfect that as a toady analyst. Now you want to start delegate a little bit, you want to start training your junior Analysts and start monitoring it as an associate. Now you have a team to manage, but at the same time, you need to learn how to manage and how to interact with client. By the time you are senior analyst, you need to start preparing pitches, proposing pitches, pitching ideas and managing. The team, of course, correct the models of analysts and at the same time, now you are interacting or your part of the execution team who is responsible for managing execution on day to day life of the client. Right. So all those things comes with learning. So of course, there was like my office hours would say OK from 9:00 till not midnight or 2:00 a.m. every day, but would change up to like 11:00 p.m., perhaps.
And then at that time, you can either prepare something or you can learn. And we want to there's what literally changed was a flexibility that I could work maybe a few hours from home, right? That I don't need to be in the office all the time to finish that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:41] That's those are super long hours to be going for seven years like that. That I mean, that's just did you get any vacations? What was your thought process in terms of when did you start thinking, Hey, this private equity thing sounds interesting? Tell me a little bit about that thought process and the whole recruiting for that.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:38:58] So for the private equity, somehow, I wasn't very motivated when I joined M&A to be in private equity. That's why I never even looked at it when my friend started to leave. You know, like when you start, when you enter M&A, you're you will see people leaving M&A for private equity within first six weeks of finishing their training of analysts. So I remember, like we were 100 hundred analysts. By the time I left, there were only five from my batch remaining, and that's so I really wasn't like I wanted to do advisory. I was I really loved it. A lot of transactions, But one of my MD, my favorite MDS, had left a year before and he left for private equity. He was I was doing a lot of private equity transactions for him and he introduced me. He said, Look at this opportunity. There's something really good. And there was an opportunity where international expansion, a lot of responsibilities, setting up a team and that thing, I haven't thought of it before. But when it was proposed, this is a good. A stepping stone for me Ttowards an entrepreneurial
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:07] Side. And so your long term vision was, I definitely want to do something on my own at some point.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:40:12] Oh, definitely, yes. Absolutely. I was just waiting for the right opportunity. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:16] And so you were saving money and or just. Yeah, yeah. Were you part or were you partying a lot in Paris with your three hours of sleep every
Gaurav-Goel: [00:40:27] Night partying a lot. Like I love, like I love. I love summer. I love dancing. So I went out dancing a lot. I really like it. I really do. So I went out clubbing. But that's part of things like, You work hard. Play hard. Yeah. And so no, I wasn't. I wasn't setting that much, but the private equity. But can you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:49] Talk about how you're not saving that much? I know Paris is expensive, but yeah. Were you making expensive or are you making insane money by the end? Hmm. Well, it depends. I mean, what is it? Yeah, definitely. It was the year.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:41:02] Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like, you make a couple of hundred thousand. That's for sure. Mm hmm. But yeah, up spending expensive taste. Yeah, I see the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:14] Beautiful painting behind you. Maybe that painting was a bonus.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:41:18] Well, almost almost, I would say. Yeah, exactly. The thing is. You are on and then you earn you lose a little bit sense of the reality. I would say I would I would ask in hindsight, I would say, definitely this thing.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:33] So say, do you wish you had saved more? Do you wish you had saved more? Yeah, definitely.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:41:39] Well, no, actually. No, no, you enjoyed it. No, I enjoyed it. Yeah, I had no. I have no regrets. Absolutely no regrets.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:44] You only live with the only one.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:41:46] Absolutely. And that's what the point is of work hard and play
hard because you really work hard and sometimes you need to just get that out. Like, change that, surrounding. Yeah. And I like I like literally like dancing and traveling. So I did that as soon as I had free time. I was like, Okay, I'm going.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:04] And so you got an occasional week off here and there where you just get out of town and go, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's right. Where did you go? What were some of your trips that you did?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:42:14] So I did. So I was found on weekends, long weekends, so I would take two, two or three day weekends and my one of my like. I had phases, so I enjoyed Stockholm quite a lot. Oh, nice. Barcelona was good. Also, I liked south of France, very much so. Riviera needs can Monaco also like Corsica, which is French?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:39] Do you have expensive taste? No.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:42:43] Well, that's
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:44] I've been to the east in Monaco. I know what. I know what those places are like.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:42:48] No, no, no. It's it's beautiful there. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's a good city.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:53] It is awesome. I love my grandmothers from Barcelona Barcelona area.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:42:57] Oh, really? Yeah. Wow, what? Where have you travelled in Europe? It seems like you have traveled a lot.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:01] Are you back? Not anymore. With the three kids, I'm grounded. But I yeah, I've been to Barcelona, Madrid. I lived in a small town north of Madrid when I was 15. I been to Italy a few times to Rome, actually Rome with Rothschild. Before I started they flew me out. Before I had my before I started full time and we played in a soccer tournament at Latios Field. You know, the club Lazio and yeah, of course. Yeah, we played on their on their whole stadium. No, not at the stadium there practice facility. Yeah. And so like, it was really cool because we flew in. I was placed on the New York soccer team. Then I played soccer, so I played on the New York team. They were trying to bring me in because they knew I played to try and beat the other European.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:43:42] Yeah, because you are European. Yeah, absolutely. Because.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:44] And so it was funny because we played a whole tournament. I was where a jet lag to play a whole tournament like all day for games. And then you. Then we take it. We take a bus to the Rothchild castle.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:43:56] So you were full in for the soccer game?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:58] Yeah, in Rome. Then we go to some sort of castle. Yeah, in Rome or outside of the outskirts of Rome, and it's Rothschild's castle with the Rothschild. Why is it is this crazy party? And I'm just like, I think eight years old, I'm like, Where? What's going?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:44:14] That's that showed you the glamour, the finance world?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:19] Yeah, the glamour. And then the reality hit once you started working. Yeah, but it was it was a very cool experience. Ok, so you're kind of you're enjoying you're trying to enjoy your life while you're working those super long hours, you're making sure you're not skimping on your on your dancing and your vacations and your travel, but you eventually get this opportunity. So this this empty that left, was he at this fund or was he at another fund?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:44:45] And he just he wasn't another phone, so he left for another fund and he saw this the disruption because he knew my taste very well. He said, look, they are looking for exactly somebody with your profile for international expansion in Paris and all that. And I had a discussion with him and saying, Look, I'm not that interested. He said, like, just have a talk. And they made an offer, which I couldn't refuse. And at some point, you know, like, you are opportunistic. So of course, that was a very good offer for me.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:18] Was the offer more rich on the cash side or is it more just part of carry that you three, three,
Gaurav-Goel: [00:45:24] Three fold? So first was definitely carried. So that was definitely huge. Any at that level, at any words.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:32] Knowing that you wanted to go. Sorry to interrupt you. Wanted to go to be an entrepreneur. Eventually. Did you know that Carrie was going to be realizing, don't you have to be around?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:45:39] No, I knew that I would. I would get it when I would leave. I won't get it. You knew you wouldn't get it right? No, absolutely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:45] So you didn't put that much weight into the care?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:45:47] No, exactly. That's what I said. There was three fold. The offer came three fold, so one was carried. The second was that exposure, which I was getting international deal. Well, international development of the team like I would be
responsible for one particular sector development of that sector within myself. And then third, the fun was really is one of the most successful funds and they are really doing transactions. They are hungry, they are really doing a lot of transactions every year.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:18] Do you mind tell me a little bit about them? I'm not too familiar. Where are they based out of? Based based, well, it's a Luxembourg based firm now, which the French originally
Gaurav-Goel: [00:46:29] But Luxembourg based fund with offices now before I left, was in London, Luxembourg, Paris. Now they're opening offices in New York as well, and they have opened office in Frankfurt and Milan.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:43] And how much? What's the assets under management for the whole?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:46:45] I think now it's around 10 billion. It's pretty big. And the last
fund they just closed, I think last one, they had four billion so a month or two months ago. It's a Monster. That's a monster. Yeah, exactly. And they haven't lost money on any transaction. The maximum they did. So that's it's one of the most successful private equity funds in Europe. Everybody knows mid-cap was now they will now like starting to do on the large cap side. But it was really good. Like all these deals have kept at least two and a half times with the maximum at eight and a half times return. Wow.
And all the all the day, the churn of the way they deployed money is quite fast. So every fund till now has paid the carry like everything. It's incredible. Yeah. So I know that I will be doing transactions there.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:47:41] That was my part. Plus the responsibilities I'm going to get and
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:45] Opening the helping open the Paris office or opening the Paris office.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:47:48] Well within Paris office. They had the French team, but the Paris office open more international exposure, international deals so I can go and
Source International deals. Got it. And that was the part of it, and that's why I loved it. So when I joined, I was sourcing the deals. I was, I was I was bringing deals on the table. And by the time I left, I had already done five transactions in P within three years, which is quite rare. And so I had done one exit and four besides all things and so great experience. Mm hmm. That was that was kind of experience I was looking for. And as an investor, I wanted to really make sure what are the key aspects of negotiations? What are the spa's how deeply you negotiate as a banker? You know it. But at the as an investor, it's a different level
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:38] Of, yeah, it's not. It's not so much about the PowerPoint presentation for the client, as much it is for the analytics. And is this is this an actual good investment or not? And you have to put on a different hat. So it's it's kind of good to use a different part of your brain for a little while.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:48:50] Absolutely. It's like I was learning how to do due diligence. So at the end of the day, I was like, You are
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:56] On that whole team?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:48:57] Yeah, absolutely. Not only team like literally at Astragalus, I can say, like I was doing the calls with the experts and you just want to get smart, real, smart on the company and sector you're buying. So you are. Time is, of course, dedicated to making sure that any money you're investing in any company, you are fully aware of their whole surrounding ecosystem. And then, of course, financial model comes in. But. Financial model is like once you have done seven years of M&A, you know, like, that's something you master. Nobody even care like that. You are confident of those models. And then of course, you have your M&A teams there as well to check to manage. So your focus becomes more on getting the investment right. What the return rate, what kind of return I'm going to get, what kind of growth you are buying.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:50] And that makes sense. So the skill set is obviously it's more kind of analytical in the sense of like strategy consulting type role where you're looking at like the competition, where they are in the space, what are the remote? All the all the typical things like, is this a good investment or not? But tell me about.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:50:08] But you also make you also make revenue models. So you also make revenue models. You make the financial model and the build up in order to make the revenue model because as in M&A, you will be given growth rate. You will read some research reports, you will bring some growth rates or be given by client. You are the client now on this side on the private equity side and you are the one who is vetting what kind of growth rate it should be and that growth rate comes through when you're doing that right. Due diligence. Commercial strategy. Due diligence and that strategy. Due diligence comes through like asking a lot of questions with the customers
or the company, the whole ecosystem around it. And once you start getting that knowledge, then you start doing your research and then you start getting comfortable of what the growth rate could be in the next 10, five to 10 years. And that's when you start building your revenue model. And once your revenue model, which has been fully detailed to things you comes in, then your simple model runs in and then then it's a
simple corporate finance.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:10] But yeah, it's interesting that you said a big part of the job was sourcing. Yes. So tell me a little bit about the skill sets you needed for that or the tools you used for that. And how do you how did you even know where to look? Oh yeah. Was your relationships private equity?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:51:29] I would say, of course, there's like good returns are very
important at the end. Lps for LPs for everybody. But. Sourcing the deal is the most important aspect for that equity, right, and to get what does sourcing mean? Of course you will. As in large cap, there'll be few deals in the market, but you want to get that early access to that information so that you can do your due diligence properly. And that comes through relationships networking. And that is the key part and how you do network. So like, I'm proud of it, like you, I had network from my engineering school, from business school, I had my network, from my internships. I didn't lose contact with them and I made sure that because those people, they are now in all different sorts of fields. As I said, like even when I was an analyst at Goldman, we were a hundred people. Ninety six of them had already left. Right. So and they were in private equity partners or directors or different positions. Now that becomes a very, very important networking point. And you can learn so much from them about the deals, about the transactions which can come in the market, which cannot. So the skill set now is more interpersonal relationships. Mm-hmm. Getting to know what can be in the market before and then trying to find a way to reach to the management. And talk with them, form a relationship.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:59] Warm introductions to management. Absolutely.
No, no, no auctions or limited auctions, ideally.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:53:06] Exactly. I mean, at mid cap, at mid cap, it really matters a lot. I mean, of course, in small cap, it matters even more, but it matters a lot. If you can do your deal before you when it comes to the market, that's perfect. Or at least you can get to know what could be an expected price.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:23] Exactly, especially nowadays where the pricing has
gone so crazy. Oh, completely, yeah.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:53:27] And like, everybody comes up with crazy numbers, so you need to in order to not only give the number, you need to have a right connection
with the management with the thing so that management doesn't say, I don't want to work with this private equity one. I don't like it. So it's a lot of chemistry like intangible
thing that
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:48] What do you think is a fair price? And put it
Gaurav-Goel: [00:53:54] At the end of the day, like I can tell you, like, no matter what the transaction would happen based on the number four who brings in the bigger check, right? Maybe the difference can be OK. Five, 10 million, perhaps, really. But if somebody is putting in a bigger check, that's where the transaction will go. But you need to have that last call. You need to get that last call. We need to like you have.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:15] Do you feel like the funds in these latest vintages,
though, are just they're having to put so much capital work that they're they're bound to fail, you're bound to have suppressed returns or you feel like, yeah, it's
Gaurav-Goel: [00:54:26] Frustrating for sure. Yeah, I think I think that's in the current scenario. It is a very high possibility. But, you know, like finance world and the world
is still growing. There is still growth may not be in its sector, maybe in the Y sector, right? But there's a lot of growth. There's still a lot of growth. We as humans are made like. I would say.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:54:50] By Gordon Gekko, the famous thing is that greed is good, but I will take it not in a negative sense. I'll take it in a positive sense that greed is about growth is about people want to achieve things, and that's what drives our humanity towards progress. Anything you develop for progress, any new innovation, that's a growth and that growth brings by default revenue because otherwise it won't be. So we can change different sectors subsectors, but the growth will be there. And when there's a growth, there will always be people who will fund it. So and that funding would come in. And as the companies grow, as things grow, some will fail, some will not fail. But yeah, I think the returns will be there may not be the same level.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:35] That depends what type, what funds, I mean, it depends
Gaurav-Goel: [00:55:37] What size as well, exactly, I mean, it's not you're not going to have eight time returns on a 10 billion dollar fund. No, right? So so the return size change course.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:49] So tell me, so you're you're there. You still were getting pretty attractive offer on the cash side, obviously, because you weren't putting
a lot of carry on the carry or you wouldn't think a lot of weight on the carry because you knew you were going to leave.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:02] Can you tell me a little bit about just
Gaurav-Goel: [00:56:04] This cash component was slashed like anything?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:09] Oh, so you took a huge pay cut on the cash side, but you still did it because you felt like it was giving you a different perspective. Oh, absolutely. And your resume? It was interesting, and it was an incredibly strong fund.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:56:20] Oh, absolutely. Like I didn't like because I knew that I will not stay until the end for the carry because I had no intention of staying for two. What do you say
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:28] It was slash? Was it slash 50 percent like you were making one hundred thousand like, yeah, more so you went from like three hundred thousand euros down to one hundred thousand or something crazy, like almost like
Gaurav-Goel: [00:56:38] That? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely not that far. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:42] Yes, that's tough. But especially someone who likes to travel and go out.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:56:48] Oh yeah. Well, that definitely changed
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:51] What part of your your mindset was. Maybe I should just keep
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:55] Going in banking and saving if I'm going to go start my own thing. Eventually, you just really felt like that investing side was important for the startup.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:57:01] Oh yes, definitely. Yeah. Tell me why you guys,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:04] Because of your fundraising yourself
Gaurav-Goel: [00:57:07] As an investor, as an entrepreneur. Now it's about fundraising. It's about understanding was investor wants what you as a company want and able to do the due diligence right as well about the team, about the company, about the operations and also have the right negotiations on different documents. And as an as a p, you learn a lot about the business and that's what I wanted to learn about business. What do you think was the hardest part? Is hardest documents
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:35] To get your hands around the loan, the loan docs? Oh yes, the purchase agreements, which ones?
Gaurav-Goel: [00:57:41] No, I think the loan document, the loan documentation is always tough to read to go through.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:48] And the reason I'm asking you all this because I've had listeners say, ask more about like the skill sets needed to succeed in the job because I think people are interested in that. So like, how can somebody be a little bit more prepared for their job besides knowing how to build an equity for private equity job? Yeah, yeah.
Gaurav-Goel: [00:58:03] So there's three feel to three different fields in private equity. One is sourcing. One is like pure execution. You can be a brilliant guy if you are really brilliant and execute an execution.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:16] So on the operations side, or you mean
Gaurav-Goel: [00:58:18] No execution, like making sure transactions are right, then what do I mean by that is like, you are managing. Uh, different advisers. You make sure that the output is completely in line with your investment committee. And in line in the sense that whether yes or no, like you are the one who was driving it, you are the one who will be representing it to your investment committee. So you need to get comfortable on legal, on finance, on commercial, on operations, on insurance, on risk. Every single work stream that like starts for during a transaction. You have to be on top of those transactions, those those things. So you will have to learn a lot when you join from M&A. But it depends on what stage you are joining. So if you start at early, right, two years after banking, after two years of banking, you will learn one thing at a time. You will learn first how the models are, what kind of returns the fund is looking and how do you interact with different teams? Right. If you have, once you have that four or five years of experience, now you are expected to manage teams. And on top of it, of course, deliver in front of your investment committee right then. More expense you have, the more you get, then the question comes about sourcing. Then the question comes about OK in this, let's say, SBA share purchase agreement. What are the rights? What are the exit? What are the tagalong? Then the conversation is along. How you are? Tempting the management. And how you are incentivizing them so that they work, the two things are aligned so that it's not like a CEO or a CFO leaves just because he's not going to get that much out of the next elbow. So all those things need to be rightly number to management package comes into play, tag along rights, drag rights, of course interchangeable. If you have another fun with you, then into shareholder agreements and all that, things can get pretty complicated. Yeah, the transactions get very complicated. And then once you have done the transaction, you are the one who is managing it. That's the beauty of it, at least at not for every other fund. Yeah, because there are some funds where you do the transaction and there's some other team which manages it
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:00:48] In terms of the operational side, in terms of talking to the CFO, keeping track managing the portfolio.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:00:53] Yeah, absolutely. The day to day operations, day to day portfolio management. Right. So but at Astro, it was the transaction team doing the portfolio management as well. Got it. That's great.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:01:04] So you're OK. So you're there for what, two years? And then you start thinking, when, when does this kind of idea? For your own business.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:01:12] Yeah, well, the idea of my own business was there when I was leaving Goldman, actually, but I was not convinced at that stage to do to take that job. I was still waiting for validating the market and I wanted to definitely do one or two years in PE. But then I remember this frustration, which came and it was summer of twenty seventeen and I was I had enough because I love networking. And for me, networking is everything, and I remember sitting in that summer or in August collecting those business cards, And I was so lazy I didn't want to enter any of those business cards and the scanned card solutions. I start to look at the scanned card solutions, which didn't work. Every scanned card solution requires some sort of manipulation, and it's like, OK, if I'm doing manipulation, why do I need to pay for scanning cards? And to that
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:09] Evolution in terms of you had to tell it where the name was and stuff like Exactly. Absolutely.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:02:13] Like all, like no matter which business card scanners you take, there's always the name are changed like first name, last name, phone goes to fax, fax goes to phone or landline goes to mobile phone, and all those things do happen. And as a result, the data that you get is not clean and you still need to spend time on cleaning that thing. Or like, there are some solutions where there's somebody I don't know in some country who does manually check your things. Come on, we are not. We don't live in this kind of a world anymore. They shouldn't live in this kind of world. So was a lot of a
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:02:47] Lot of tech firms start like that. They say it's automated and they have somebody actually in the back end making sure.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:02:52] Exactly. Right? Absolutely. They figure it out. Yeah, that's what they show. And I don't like that part because you it shouldn't be. It should be very transparent. Like if you're doing some technology doing do it properly, like say, OK, fine, it's your business model, but not for me. So it wasn't working for me. It's like, OK, I don't want to do that. And then, you know, like, I'll be here like people ad on LinkedIn and things during 10 years of finance thing, you get a lot of LinkedIn invitations, emails. Nobody looks at it. I don't want to look at it. I have I don't know how many contacts I have on LinkedIn. I don't even know how many people I know. I like 80 percent, 90 percent of them. I don't even remember. Yeah. So for me, it was like, I want to create a solution. First of all, ease of exchange of contacts. So I don't want to rely on business cards. First of all, I want to get rid of business cards. I don't carry those in my pocket. And second, I want to have different profiles with different people I want to exchange.
And third, I want to make sure that I remember them. I want to remember, where did I meet them? I can add very quickly a voice note to them, but that notice added to their name or to the meeting so that I can remember those things or even personal things like vacations and all that thing. That is, rather than me calling on my excel or on my outlook notepad. That's what was like reducing the efficiency productivity. Yeah. And that says, Okay, look, this has this has to stop and I need to do something about it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:04:22] So tell me about your business.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:04:24] Thank you. Oh, OK, thanks for asking. So, so the principal pain point I just mentioned, like it's about business cards, It's about exchange of contact, and it's that was the genesis of it. Now it is much bigger, solving more problems. So what we are saying is like, you can look
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:04:39] It up right now I'm looking at. Yeah, go ahead. I looked at it, but I want to see kind of what it looks like on the site.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:04:46] So the point is like you can, first of all, create different profiles for different occasions. We all now live in a world. We all have different personas. You do, I don't know, perhaps golf or yoga, you have your personal life and you have your professional life. You don't want to carry those festival business cards. Different things. Maybe you are a
Gaurav-Goel: [01:05:01] Director for a different company or board. You have different contacts. You want to keep those contacts separate. So if and then I want to exchange that contacts in very easy way without any QR codes, without any scanning and without taking any business cards. So I want to exchange my contacts easily with anybody I meet just with my phone. So the technology which we developed is patent is a patent pending, and you just bring the two phones close to one another and the profiles are exchanged when you exchange those contacts. It also saves the day time and place automatically. And now suddenly, I remember when did I meet you? Where did I meet? And I, instead of no contact you become a connection. And then I can leave very quickly with a nice user interface and user experience. I can leave very quickly. The voice note about our meeting. And now, like, you know, like in banking, you do the meetings and you're taking a Lyft or you're taking a cab or you're taking them to phone banking or is question mark. But yeah, you take those things and then you go back to your desk and you write those notes. So that's what I want to. Ok, I just finished my meeting. I leave a voice note, and it's done in 20 seconds. My key point, which I wanted to remember from this meeting, is saved and scientifically proven. Once you hear your own voice message back of that particular meeting, it gives you more recollection and faster recollection of that meeting. And now suddenly, my tool St. Touch is becoming a networking tool because it's not only about contact exchange, it's about management. It's about.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:06:41] Yes, I think I think it's really slick. My question is now, how do you use the tool so like so when you're ready to go meet with somebody else, you're like, Who is this person again? And then you go and dig them out and you're saying, Oh yeah, I remember that meeting from two years ago.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:06:54] Absolutely. So now, like I use, I just openly refuse to accept business cards. I don't do anything. I exchange contacts only through my tool. As I said, like now I can remember anybody who I meet Ben, and there I have a very powerful search engine behind it. So it keeps me that. And the point is like whenever I'm going to meet that person next, my system will remind me automatically the last meeting, And
then I can just quickly go to my voice note and I know exactly what did I discussed. And then, of course, if that person also is on stage, my contacts are updated, my contact book. I will not have that problem of like. Clive Thomas with five different numbers for one, Thomas with six different numbers we all don't know. We all change jobs and we all keep on adding the same business card over and over again. And as a result, we don't know which number to join whom. Yeah. So that thing you managed with this. And of course, then there's a more powerful tool behind it. You can organize it better. You can group, you can
Gaurav-Goel: [01:07:58] Filter, you can set reminders.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:01] So cool. That's really cool. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a it's a very fundamental problem. I guess my only question would be like, what's the hardest part about? It's probably getting people to just download another app.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:08:12] Well, or no? Yes or no? Yes or no, because the point is, like the app for networking, it’s literally made for everybody who networks like even for students, you will undermine the students network a lot. They've been going to meet.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:25] What if it's not live? What if it's me just networking and I do connect on a phone with somebody?
Gaurav-Goel: [01:08:30] Yeah, like right now, I can share you my contact details at this distance. I can even send you my profile. And the moment I send it, it will save this date, time and place. And now you are on my system. So I don't want you. I don't want like, even if you don't have an app, I can have enjoy 90 percent of the benefits
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:49] Of staying in your own
Gaurav-Goel: [01:08:51] In my own state. Absolutely. Got it. Exactly. So that's the key part. So that's what I'm saying. Like, it's not something which is
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:08:58] It's not that it's not dependent on everyone else having a
Gaurav-Goel: [01:09:00] Network effect. Absolutely. Yeah, which is I have individual advantages of it. I know no matter who I meet at whichever even career forum or like meeting a professional meeting or even informal vetting gathering, I know that no matter who I meet, I have their contacts and I know that what? When did I meet or what did I add? How and it was also ease of exchange of contacts, for example.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:09:27] So tell me what's next? Are you in the fundraising process?
Gaurav-Goel: [01:09:30] Let's see. So we just launched our app officially at Vegas in CES Consumer Electronics Show. Congrats and thank you. And now we are starting a fund raising seed round starting Monday. Is it a paid?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:09:47] Is it a paid app? Is it the idea?
Gaurav-Goel: [01:09:48] So the idea is freemium, so there's going to be free version because I want everybody to use it. And then there's going to be premium features behind it. So but the basic functionalities, whatever we discussed will remain free. There will be some premium version of it. And then there's going to be an enterprise version for the likes of Goldman and Deloitte. And I
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:10:09] Love it. Yeah, I see you can create a memory you just touch to connect people. Absolutely.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:10:14] It's much more than that. Like, like right now you can have your public profile. So I have my public profile and I can easily share that information with you. So it creates it gives you also your public page. Very cool.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:10:25] Yeah, very cool. Awesome, man. Also, potentially a potentially acquisition candidate, too. Oh, absolutely. I mean,
Gaurav-Goel: [01:10:33] I like I
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:10:34] Have a LinkedIn. If you get some, if you get some, some traction, maybe LinkedIn, swoop in.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:10:39] Yeah, look, I mean, we are already at already more than fifteen thousand and we haven't spent anything on the marketing yet. So we are going fast. People understand the advantages of it. My aim is to enjoy the ride and grow it, so not sell it very soon, at least target of 10 billion. And then we will see.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:10:58] Very cool. That's awesome, man. I really I really appreciate you sharing your story and being so forthcoming about everything. Is there anything before we call it? Where can they fall at? St. Touch is where you can. You can just in that or the Play Store.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:11:13] So the app is app is the networking app is available both on iPhone, on the App Store and Google Play on iPhone. It's available from version twelve point three and above, which I think everybody has it. And on Android, it's 8.0 and above works cross-platform. People can exchange contacts even if somebody doesn't have an app, as I said, but the advantages are quite huge. My personal frustration at Goldman and also sweet answers and yeah, and any of the information it's on status dot com or you can even reach out to me about on my email address, so I'm very happy
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:11:47] To answer it. And anything else before we call it anything you'd share based on like advice you give to your younger self, I usually ask the guests.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:11:56] Yeah. So looking back, my only advice is the team matters the most. So when you choose the right, everybody will make a lot of decisions about teams, about transfers or moves. Please make sure the team like, look at the team, do the due diligence because everything can be ruined if there's no fit with the team and then the move or starting a career can just destroy that impression. So each team is everything. So the team effort also from your side. And also just make sure that during the interviews, if people can you get to know the person? Don't hesitate in asking. Things about the interviewer himself or herself. What do they like and where they
spend their free time on, like some of these questions? It also helps in breaking ice, but it also shows that you are interested in that person as a person or just a banker or a
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:13:00] Banker. Xyz.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:13:02] Yeah, exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:13:03] Cool, man. Well, thanks so much, Gaurav. Thanks so much for taking my call.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:13:06] My pleasure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:13:07] There was a lot of it was a lot of fun and very insightful.
Gaurav-Goel: [01:13:10] Yeah, my pleasure. Great. Thank you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [01:13:12] And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis. And till next time.
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