WSO Podcast | E227: Interview Stories and Surviving Tough Brainteasers (Weekly Intern Meetup #21)
Another fun chat with our interns! To apply for the WSO Finance Research internship, go here: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/off-topic/wall-street-oasis-finan…
Or Listen to the Podcast Here:
Resources:
WSO Podcast Episode 227 Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:06] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey. And this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me as I talk to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. Another interesting chat with the interns. If you're interested in applying to the internship, please check out the show notes. There's a link right there. Enjoy. We'll start this off, I guess, just as usual. Anyone have any questions about the internship specifically? And then, if not, any questions about career stuff and whether it's networking, interviews, anything like that. Happy to answer those. Obviously, the groups are much smaller because people are in school. A lot of you are working hard right now. But the good news is the. The efforts from intern team is really started paying off or seeing steady growth in traffic to the resource pages. From all the articles. We have over 2000 articles that have been published in the last year. So it's pretty impressive what the team has done. But yeah, just wanted to open it up. Mru New Year.
Intern 1: [00:01:26] No, I just I've been busy, usually on Fridays. So, like the second call I've been able to get on.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:33] Awesome. Welcome. Thank you. Anthony, I don't know if you're new, Ailsa. Welcome. I know. Has been here pretty consistently. Yeah. Any. Any questions, Adrian? Anything going on with you? Did you have your new resume done or.
Intern 1: [00:01:45] No. Yeah, I have a new resume and I'm going to be sending it to, like, boutique sort of IB firms, I guess, for hopefully selling this summer or whatever.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:01:55] So I'll be freshman summer, right?
Intern 2: [00:02:00] Well, it'll technically be like before I enter freshman year because I'm still.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:04] On a gap. Oh, yeah. Because you're still like, Okay, you're doing like, a gap year or whatever.
Intern 2: [00:02:08] Yeah. Except, like, I guess with my peers from high school, I would be.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:11] Like, it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard to get in anywhere.
Intern 2: [00:02:14] Just. Yeah, that's why, that's why I'm only, like, looking at, like, small, like, like local boutique firms that are going to be around, like, Connecticut. Let me try to make it look a.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:32] You broke up for a second. What was that? Should you make it? What.
Intern 2: [00:02:35] As a word document or a PDF?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:37] Word is good. Yeah, you can shoot it over. All right, then. If you want us to do a resume review or else. Anthony. Happy to kind of take a look. What's your situation? Emma.
Intern 1: [00:02:49] Um, I am a I'm in getting my MBA right now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:55] Oh, cool. We're at.
Intern 1: [00:02:56] And. Oh, my gosh, sorry. It's Quinnipiac University in Connecticut. Small school. So I am, I guess, currently looking for a job for next year. But I did this program called the three plus one program, so I didn't really have time to do any like this is the only internship I've ever done, so.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:22] Cool. Okay. And then did you come straight out of undergrad and go into that program or how did it.
Intern 1: [00:03:26] Yeah, so it was my undergrad was three and three years and I basically just did school for like three years straight. Like, yeah, every break I was doing school, like, because you had to do your undergrad in three years. It was like crazy. I was doing classes, like, all the time.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:43] Why did you have to do in three years?
Intern 1: [00:03:46] It's just part of the program. And then this is my fourth year and I'm doing my MBA. But it was it's a good program because you get fixed tuition all four years and it's just like it has a lot of perks. Like the extra classes I was taking weren't at an extra cost.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:02] Oh, that's awesome. So it's like, it's like all you can eat, like basically go do, like as many classes as possible.
Intern 1: [00:04:08] Yeah. And it was, it was a lower tuition than like the normal school's tuition. So it is a good deal. Yeah. It's just like you just have to be determined and it is a lot of.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:19] Work to get through it. Yeah, sure. Are you on LinkedIn?
Intern 1: [00:04:24] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:26] I don't see you. Are we connected?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:29] And I kept.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:31] Maybe just share your link. So want to take a look? See how you're framing things. So what type of roles are you looking for? So you're graduating in.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:39] May or June?
Intern 1: [00:04:40] I'm graduating in May. I guess, like. I don't really know what has sparked my interest. I guess in like the past few months is like equity research. Um, investment or portfolio management, stuff like that. I took a class last semester and then I am a manager for a class this semester. It's basically a portfolio management class where we manage the school like Quinnipiac funds and we just like allocate them and that's our whole job for the whole semester. So it's cool. Yeah, it's a cool experience.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:21] Yeah, that's great. And I assume that's on your resume.
Intern 1: [00:05:25] Um, I.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:26] So do you have an updated your resume yet?
Intern 1: [00:05:29] The rules of the class is that you can't put it on the resume on your resume until you're done being a manager. So after the semester, I can go on my resume, so. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:39] Well, we won't restrict you on the internship, putting that on your own. So that's good. So, equity research, portfolio management. Okay. Yeah. Accelerated three plus one BS MBA. Awesome. Very cool. So. I think. No, sorry. Where are you from originally? Connecticut area.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:07] Where.
Intern 1: [00:06:08] I'm from. New Jersey. But I currently live in Connecticut.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:11] Yeah. Nice. So I think. Good on you for like, you know, kind of grinding through three intense years and stuff like that. Think the good side, the upside is that it gives you it keeps costs down and so you're not getting as much student debt. Right. Downside is it's giving you less time to explore. Yeah. And like, figure out like, Hey, what do I want to actually do after I graduate?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:38] And so.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:39] You know, for for people who potentially their parents are helping them or they have they have more funds to kind of go to school and do a summer job, It's unpaid. It's it's easier in the sense of like they have more time to network, They have more time to, like, do all that stuff. So like. Like looking at your background. The NBA is good, but the NBA is also like you're plowing through.
Intern 1: [00:07:04] Yeah, exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:06] And so for me, I'm like, man, the NBA is more like a reset that I see it as I see it as a reset for people. So I often like people say, hey, get a job right after undergrad, even if it's not like ideal, just for a couple of years and then use the NBA's a reset if you need to pivot or change. But you're getting it. You're you're kind of in the middle of it. So there's there's no stopping now. But I think. The harp with a master's without the work experience. You need to be, like, open minded around like what type of finance roles? Because a lot of people are like, Hey, but you have no experience. It's the chicken and the egg.
Intern 1: [00:07:43] I've definitely run into that and I've definitely learned to keep an open mind.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:48] Yeah. So like if I talked to you a year ago or a year and a half or two years ago, I would have said, Hey, stop, go work.
Intern 1: [00:07:55] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:56] But I guess it is a program you already signed up for, right? Three plus one.
Intern 1: [00:08:00] Yeah. I mean, like, I have a sign, a contract before I even, like, as a like.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:06] When you were, like, 17.
Intern 1: [00:08:08] Yeah. So, like, I mean, I knew what I was getting into, but I guess I just didn't know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:12] Would they not have given you your Bachelor of Science after three years if you had stopped?
Intern 1: [00:08:17] I'm not sure. I don't know. I know it signed a contract that said, like, I have to stay for four years. I don't know if they would have kept that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:26] I probably would have not given you the MBA, but forced you to pay a fourth year.
Intern 1: [00:08:30] Yeah. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:32] Which is pretty painful, but.
Intern 1: [00:08:34] Yeah, so.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:37] Okay. It's really interesting. I haven't heard of this.
Intern 1: [00:08:41] Not a lot of schools have this program. I mean, yeah, and I think.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:44] It's good for motivating people. It shows motivation. My concern is like it's not giving you a chance to, like, really explore for yourself, like in the summer where you're doing classes the whole time.
Intern 1: [00:08:53] Yeah. So I was taking or I mean, for the past, since I've been in college, I've been taking like two or three classes over the summer and they're not like, like, like art classes. They're like finance classes. And it's like they're not really classes, but, I mean, I know people who have done like internships with like Jp morgan and all of that while they were doing these classes. And they said that was just like almost impossible. Yeah, like almost didn't pass their classes. And I was like, Yeah, I'm so glad to do that because I don't know, I was like, I wouldn't have like a life if I did that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:33] Yeah, Yeah. I mean, the hard part is so I think you've done really well in school. I think the hard part now is translating it to like, show that you're open. Even with the MBA, you're very open to like entry level roles. It's like, I almost like want to downplay the MBA. Yeah, because I think people are like, Oh, she's a post MBA. She's going to expect, you know, 100 K salary did it. You know what I mean? And I think that's I don't think that's appropriate for somebody who's never worked. Just because you plowed through classes doesn't necessarily mean you have the experience to to kind of demand that. You know what I mean? So what I would do is, well, a couple of things. Just looking at your resume, I have your resume pulled it up from your. So what I'd update that with for sure with like the SO stuff.
Intern 1: [00:10:24] Okay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:25] Uh.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:28] Yeah. If you could do that and remove the nanny one.
Intern 1: [00:10:32] Yeah, that's what.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:35] Um. And then even removed that from your LinkedIn. And then if maybe we can spend some time on this call, I would get rid of your summary at the top, kind of look at the template that we've done. I think Adrian put his in it. Let me see if I can pull it up.
Intern 1: [00:10:56] So I, I actually have to hop on another call.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:00] Yeah, sure.
Intern 1: [00:11:01] 30. I hate to leave. No, go, go. But if it's over, I can hop back on this.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:06] Yeah, hop back on. I'll let you right back in. Yeah, no worries.
Intern 1: [00:11:09] Sorry.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:10] No, it's fine. And then, like, I think. Yeah, I think there's one thing before you leave.
Intern 1: [00:11:15] Oh, yeah, No worries.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:16] Linkedin network. Yes. You're very behind.
Intern 1: [00:11:20] Okay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:21] You have 200 connections on there.
Intern 1: [00:11:23] Okay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:24] Like you need your super high GPA, like your, your focus right now through the end of your thing should just be fully on like just networking and getting interviews and practicing that and getting developing that skill. That's your course. That's your most important course for the next six months.
Intern 1: [00:11:38] Okay.
Intern 1: [00:11:39] Bye bye. Sorry.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:43] No, no, it's fine. It's good. So, Adrian, I got your stuff, I think. Here, let me see if I can open that.
Intern 2: [00:11:49] Yes, I think I think the only change which I did not do sort of intentionally was I think last time you told me to get rid of the periods, and then I did that. But then I just thought that it like even if the sentences like some fine of them.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:02] As long as it's consistent, it's not a big deal.
Intern 2: [00:12:04] Yeah. Yeah. And then like I got rid of them and then it kind of looked like blank or ugly on some smart and some spots. So just to sort of keep them cool, No worries.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:13] Um. Great. This is good. And. Yeah, I think it's looking pretty strong, man. I mean, the only thing that's going to really hurt you is, like, just your age.
Intern 2: [00:12:27] Yeah, Yeah, I know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, obviously I know that. Which is why, like, I'm not applying to, like, Goldman Sachs or, like, some Jp morgan thing, but.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:37] Yeah, I mean, you can. I mean, you can, but they're just going to be like by next year. I think more important than just applying to those would be actually just talking to people, trying to build up relationships at those firms.
Intern 2: [00:12:51] Right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:53] So remind me where you're going next year or do you don't know yet?
Intern 2: [00:12:56] Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I do. Like I was admitted at Wake Forest last year. So that's kind.
Intern 2: [00:13:01] Of like if I don't get into.
Intern 2: [00:13:03] Like, other schools, I'd like Penn. I don't think I'm going to like, you know, it's unlikely, you know, so like schools like Penn, like UVA, BC, NYU.
Intern 2: [00:13:13] Kind of like in that.
Intern 2: [00:13:14] Range. And then if I don't get into some of those schools, then I at least have Wake Forest, which certainly isn't a bad school.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the ones you just mentioned though at UVA and Y you tend to be tend to place much better.
Intern 2: [00:13:27] Right. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:28] It's going to be an easier road for from there. So if you can do that I would, I would highly if you can transfer I would highly recommend that.
Intern 2: [00:13:35] Yeah. Cool. And then you mentioned like trying to build like connections in those like other companies would still be worth like applying to like an internship. Obviously not expecting anything, but then hopefully just already starting like a relationship with like some of the larger like larger companies or.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:54] Yeah. Yeah, I know. Just informational interviews. I think you conduct yourself well enough in like a call and whatnot to just and ideally you're learning enough early on where you can like actually not sound completely green on these calls.
Intern 2: [00:14:09] Right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:11] So I think if, you know, like you do a little research before the calls and stuff like that, I think it's smart to start building out that network. I haven't looked at your LinkedIn recently. How is it looking? Have you been doing any of that or just know?
Intern 2: [00:14:24] I mean, like, you know, I'm not like in terms of growing growing the network, I haven't really been like aggressively like following a bunch of people because, you know, like, I know that I still just kind of in terms of LinkedIn looks like.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:39] Yeah, I see. Yeah. You're super. Yeah. You got like 52 connections, blah, blah, blah. Whatever school you get into.
Intern 2: [00:14:49] Right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:50] I'd almost put that more as a backdrop. I'm looking at your LinkedIn rather than the WAC logo because I think it will look more professional. Definitely. Once you have that and then. But I don't think you should stop. I mean, you had the IB work virtual experience on there Jp morgan. So that's good. You have like all that stuff that shows interest. It's important. I would I would actually be like, start building this out because like, you're at like 52 connections or whatever.
Intern 2: [00:15:17] Right? So like, just, you know. Well, what would the next steps be? More or less for that. And just go on to like Goldman Sachs, like employee.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:25] You know, you're going to be East Coast right, soon. So do you know where you're going to be living?
Intern 2: [00:15:32] Yeah, like Fairfield County, Connecticut.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:35] So loaded with.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:37] Loaded with. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:39] Loaded with bankers and families and bankers that would love to mentor you. Yes. So I think what I would do is, is. Really try to, like, target that area. Be like getting moving to the area. Blah, blah, blah. I'm coming to school. I'm still obviously looking to start. I'd love just to stay in touch. It could just be that even like I think I'm still too early to to really know, to ask the right questions, but I just wanted to connect and stay in touch as I progressed. And I'm confident that I'm interested in a career in finance. Right. So. So even just like putting those feelers out there with with bankers that potentially live in Fairfield area. And I don't know how you know that, but maybe you could do some filters for like Connecticut and for because like a lot of these people are probably members of like yacht clubs in Connecticut and like country clubs in Connecticut. And, you know, so you could probably do some reconnaissance work there. And I think that would be more helpful because if you connect now. Or the next year. Then when you need the contact in two years, when you need that coffee chat in two years.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:01] Already.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:01] You've already been connected and you may only get 10% of people accepting the connection request.
Intern 2: [00:17:08] Right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:10] But you might be surprised. You might be surprised. People may actually be very curious about your background, too, because I can see you. I can see like where you came from in California, you get the Palo Alto and you're like, Is he like startup guy? You know, like, you know what I mean?
Intern 2: [00:17:28] Definitely. Definitely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:30] But I don't think it hurts. I don't think it hurts as long as you're humble and you're you're just starting to kind of bridge that out. And it can be anything from associate's or MDs through whatever. Don't be shy.
Intern 2: [00:17:40] Right. Okay. As long as.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:42] Yeah, as long as it's not like I'm a this and, like, I'm going to be an investment banker. You're not like Ocado or whatever. I think it's. It's okay.
Intern 2: [00:17:49] Right. And so, yeah, so I guess it's a pretty good question. So I sort of have to I guess just staying.
Intern 2: [00:17:55] On LinkedIn.
Intern 2: [00:17:56] Doesn't matter. Like, you know, I don't totally know how it works. Like I'm not like LinkedIn Pro or something. Should I get like one of those free kind of one month things when I send messages like, does that help with interacting people? Like with people? Because I do know that some people it's like you can't message them if you aren't LinkedIn pro. I know that that's.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:15] You don't need it right now, maybe later when you get really ramped. But I think right now you don't have to pay anything. You can just literally you could literally just connection request them in that field in the connection so you can write like one, two, two lines and that's what I would do.
Intern 2: [00:18:30] Okay.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:31] And just be like, hey, I know I'm early, but I've Internet, Wall Street, Oasis and I'm definitely in a career in finance. And I saw that I'm in. I'm moving to the area. I just thought, you know, maybe down the road I'd love to stay in touch and see if I could pick your brain at some point in the next few years. People were like, Whoa, like, this gets planning like way ahead. Like, this is good. It'll it'll look good. And, you know. I'd be curious, actually, if you send 100 of those messages. Are you going to get ten or connection requests that might be really interesting or is it going to be five? And each one will probably take 30 seconds to send. So it's a crazy amount of work.
Intern 2: [00:19:08] Right, Exactly. And then do you think it's it's worth applying to like positions of small boutique firms? Because I have seen like in either like Fairfield, Connecticut, or like some of those they have like boutique only investment banking firms with like only ten or 15 employees. Like I've already kind of yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:25] Definitely applied to say, Hey, I'm willing to do an internship. I don't know if you can afford to do unpaid internship, but if you can, if your parents can support you for that period of time, I think that would be a huge advantage, right? To get something on your resume because it's just it's all steamrolls, man. It's all like building. It's building the profile like the earlier you can build the profile, the better chance you have at landing that first internship, the better chance of getting the middle market, then the elite boutiques, the impulse brackets. And it's like, that's why it sucks how early recruiting has gotten, because it's actually not really fair because kids who don't come from this area, kids who don't find Wall Street Oasis till junior year, they're kind of screwed.
Intern 2: [00:20:02] Right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:02] They're like, it's it's too late. Like for most of them, especially if they're not at the right school.
Intern 2: [00:20:06] That's true.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:07] But even if they're at the right school, if they're at a Target school, guess what? All the other kids that new freshman year are like.
Intern 2: [00:20:14] Right? Yeah, they've already made inroads.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:16] Time is so much more valuable than even the brand name on your on your resume time. And knowing how to network is so out it can out win anything. So like one of my mentees, she started with me when she was a freshman, like going into freshman year at Fordham and she just like. Kit. She just killed it. She had it everywhere because she just started early. That's if you were like, Oh, you have time to find yourself, time to decide. And I'm like, okay, yeah, but not really, because.
Intern 2: [00:20:45] Recruiting is.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:46] Like sophomore year now for junior summer internships. And so, like, how much time do you really have?
Intern 2: [00:20:52] That's true.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:53] I don't like it. I think it's bad. I think it's it's it's bad because it doesn't let, you know diverse populations who are not in the know. Right. You know. You know, get even have a chance. And so there's programs that are trying to change that. But it's like you've got to start in high school now. You've got to reach these kids in high school to like to have them ready by sophomore year.
Intern 2: [00:21:16] That's true. That's true.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:17] I know you're trying to, like, quickly teach, like SEO melt. All these programs are trying to teach these kids, like, freshman year, but it's like they had no they have no exposure. Almost none of them have any exposure through high school. Whereas like, somebody from like, my background or probably from your background in high school or friends of friends, they probably were taught like, what is investment banking? And that's like just knowing it even exist is a huge advantage.
Intern 3: [00:21:41] That's true.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:44] I know. It's welcome. Good to see.
Intern 3: [00:21:45] You. I just wanted to see to say I totally agree. I think it was the first years of my studies, I realized there was investment banking in private equity because none of my friends was talking about it or none of my friends knew that something like investment banking or private equity, all of them were only focused on. Tech, the tech industry and software engineering and all of that. And I recently had my interview with KKR and was quite, quite funny. The associate was she told me the same thing. She she was studying real estate at a non profit school. Yeah. And she was like, I just emailed so many people, so many firms. And at the end she landed at Morgan Stanley, did private equity real estate for three years, and then she got the offer from KKR and Frankfurt. So it's amazing to see what you can.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:35] Amazing.
Intern 3: [00:22:36] Reach or just just, just just try like just call me, I don't know, an MD probably who who has studied in the same university and yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:49] Yeah I'm looking at your background. Very impressive.
Intern 3: [00:22:53] Yeah. Excellent.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:55] You're on your way. You're on your way.If. When are you done? When are you done?
Intern 3: [00:22:58] I can be honest with you. I am in April 2022. This year I didn't even knew what Amanda was. Was what? What? I didn't knew what it was.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:13] And you? You're graduating.
Intern 3: [00:23:14] Private equity was. And then it changed for me that I was, like, only focused on this stuff and tried failed so many interviews, didn't even new one. I still remember one of the interview. The recruiter was asking, What is it? And I was like, I don't know. And then I was. I was. I was. I was I was researching on Google. It was like earnings before and was earnings before interest. And then just give me a second. Taxes, depreciation, amortization. And it's funny to see how you can progress your career if you if you just stick with it. And I think most problem we we have in our generation is we think all the doors are closed because we are from a non target school or something like that. But I wanted to ask you, Patrick. I received an offer from the LSE, but it was an online course. So it was the online Bachelor of Science. You think the online Bachelor of Science is respected the same way as the traditional course?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:20] I'm more so now, but I don't know. Like, I don't I'd have to. I'd ask LSE, what are the stats like placement? My guess is like the people taking the online course, it's not going to be as valuable because you're not getting the relationships from going to school with like LSE. But it looks good on. Do you have to say online course on your resume and on your LinkedIn? Because if not, it's pretty valuable.
Intern 3: [00:24:46] Yeah, I try to get in in the traditional course because as you have said, I, I love networking. I love being in probably in London, living there. But it online. It's like it's like you live in the same place you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:01] Are you in Germany or Zurich?
Intern 3: [00:25:02] Yeah, I'm in Germany, but I travel to Zurich every day to to work. It's like 2 hours. So, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:14] Um. So, yeah, I don't know. I think. Is it worth it? I mean, you have your undergrad, you have your BS, so you're thinking of like a master's or just getting another BS?
Intern 3: [00:25:24] No, it's, it's the credited grades of the Katie that I am going to. So I am just continuing my Bachelor of Science. It's not still finished.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:33] Oh, but you're transitioning to, like.
Intern 3: [00:25:36] Potentially I just it's it was a Hail Mary. I just said, Yeah, you know, we'll try. We'll figure out if it's possible or not. And they have accepted me. It was quite funny because. It was like 99%. They are not going to accept me and I won't do it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:58] You said 99% or they said the opposite. The odds are low.
Intern 3: [00:26:01] No, it was my it was my mindset at that time. But now I've realized it's you just have to try. Like even if you fail and it's your rejection, why not? At least you know, you have applied for it. Yeah. And that's that's the same thing for Credit Suisse. That's the same thing for. So you start you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:20] Start there in September 2023.
Intern 3: [00:26:23] Exactly. But she wrote me, I can start February 20, 23. And it's it's better. I don't want to waste that much time. So I don't know much about.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:35] What that does to your prospects for recruiting and stuff, because at least in the US, it's like when you go on campus, like the firms come on campus. So your guess is you're at a disadvantage in terms of like the networking itself. But. In the age of Zoom, you may be able to have a lot of informational interviews with LSI on your LinkedIn and kind of make up for that a little bit. So it's going to be a little bit more on you, I think, to make your your opportunities. But it sounds like you're you're very much aware of that.
Intern 3: [00:27:12] It's true. I hope I can talk with the with the administration and figure out a way how to get into the traditional course. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:23] Yeah. Or even just like, talk to them about, like the on campus recruiting and how does how do you get into those. Are you are those. Apple resume drops available to you. All that good stuff. I assume they are.
Intern 3: [00:27:36] I try? Hopefully.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:37] I was just trying to make sure your resume doesn't say online anymore.
Intern 3: [00:27:43] I didn't I didn't get that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:44] I would try to make sure your CV doesn't say online. Anywhere. I try to de-emphasize the fact that it's the online LC program.
Intern 3: [00:27:53] Yeah. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:54] Or don't even say it.
Intern 3: [00:27:57] It's true.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:58] If you can. I think it depends on their rules. Do they force you to do that? Are they?
Intern 3: [00:28:04] They didn't. They didn't. Okay, so then pretty valuable. And I've realized, even if you talk with probably MDs from. I don't know. It's. I just. Just for fun. Really. Just for fun. I called, man. I asked my one of my friends what is what is, in your opinion, the best private equity firm you believe in? And it was like Blackstone in London. And I was like, All right, I just call me. These guys called me an M.D.. And he told me I'm not responsible for the recruiting, but I write the head of Europe in the human resources. And she wrote me back and she was like, Yeah, we are interested in your and your profile and we reach out to you. So it's just it's funny what you can achieve nowadays with only LinkedIn and all this stuff. It's it's incredible.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:53] It's just it's inspirational, but people don't do it.
Intern 3: [00:28:56] Yeah, that's the problem. That's exactly the problem. I call males. I call males.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:00] Like there's no way you could ever get in or no one's ever going to respond.
Intern 3: [00:29:04] And Cold made 160 directors and MDs from from the top firms like Equity, Blackstone, KKR, BlackRock, even Larry Fink. Just for fun, I was like, Come on, man, your ambitions are not that high. We can figure out a way how to grow your business. Just funny. You not have to take yourself too serious. Yeah, I love it. And I realized from these 160 comments, I have received only ten responses. Seven of these of those responses were no and three of them were yes. So Goldman Sachs Wealth Management and zero KKR and Frankfurt for the real estate, private equity and bullion low key and Frankfurt for the M&A industrials. So just just try it. Why are you scared? Like, even if they if they if they do not respond, it doesn't matter. But even if you have only one interview from 100. Really good. For the end of the day, they are going to tell me, Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:10] And that's 160. That's not 1000 or 2000.
Intern 3: [00:30:13] Exactly. Exactly. Not that much work, even if you fail. Yeah, exactly. I just. It was like 2 hours because I. I only have changed the name of the firm. Yeah, and the name of the person and. Yeah, that's. I only wish you guys all the best. I'll just. Just try, like. But yeah, it's cool, man.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:40] Yeah. You're on your way. I mean, you crack the code of just knowing, not being scared of, like, networking anymore. Is it such a. It's is so powerful. Yeah. Realize there's not that many barriers up. Especially if you start getting certain things like the WSU internship on. And then you get like one a bank internship on and it just starts steamrolling and it's like, then people will actually talk to you.
Intern 3: [00:31:02] Yeah. And even with, with my internship right now at so people are even my friends were like, how did you get that one. Now just I was just like, just apply like you only have to apply and that's it. Like, come on, man, it's not that hard. It's not like you're not doing your PhD or something like that. Just. Just try and that's it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:23] Yeah, it's it's.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:25] It's sad to see people.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:26] Get in their own head. People get in there.
Intern 3: [00:31:27] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:28] Yeah, exactly. It's good to hear you're. You're on the right path.
Intern 3: [00:31:31] Absolutely. Thank you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:33] Yeah. No, I'm very confident that you'll. You'll be in a good spot, especially with the, like, brand. Now it's going to open. If you're. If you have a good brand and then you're like, enjoy networking and talking with people and you're good at it, it's like, forget it, you're good.
Intern 3: [00:31:46] I can I can only advise.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:48] Or even coming into a recession.
Intern 3: [00:31:50] Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's going to be harder. I have figured it out. It's going to be available time for me. Even with with the cars. After doing my research and doing hopefully good work in my internship right now. Yeah. Because I realized it's it's not going to be sufficient just to do my quick research on on because I'm currently in the second round interview at KCRW and it's like real estate, financial modeling, all that stuff. And it's it's going to be tough.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:22] But do you have a real estate modeling course?
Intern 3: [00:32:25] Yeah. Yes.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:27] It's still on.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:27] That grill on it. You got to learn.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:30] It's more the lingo that's really different with real estate. So just practice on the lingo, like understanding cap rates and all that stuff. And like, you know, like, what does that mean? Like, what does it mean? It's just the same thing. It's just different. It's a different. It's a different, like dictionary.
Intern 3: [00:32:43] Yeah, that's true. I've tried that and it's. She had. Like the last question was, was a brain teaser and it's just fucked me up at the wrong time. It was like she asked, like, it's it's 3 p.m., 3 p.m. 15 and you have to figure out the degree between.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:01] The angles of the clock. Yeah, that's a very hard.
Intern 3: [00:33:03] And I was like our.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:04] Technical interview course has that brainteaser in it. You should have known that.
Intern 3: [00:33:08] Oh that was like, I was like I was so nervous because first of all, it's like, how did I even get this interview? And I was like, Come on, man, just ask me about AI or Cabaret. I've tried everything. And she was like, No, no, you have to respond. And I was like, Come on, man, it's 15, 15. It's the same thing. And she was like, No, it's 360 divided by 12. And you have that 30 and you divide it by four and you have 7.5 nodes like five degrees. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, Come on, man, I'm starving. But it's how you can just just one thing. It's so interesting how you can kind of manipulate people if you only get into their LinkedIn account. When I did my research on her LinkedIn account, I realized the day that she had birthday and even her her boss had birthday. And if you if you say these things and the interview like I just wanted to congratulate for your birthday and everything like that, you you stay in the head of the recruiter. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:12] But you just change the whole dynamic.
Intern 3: [00:34:15] Exactly. And even if you just see the things that you liked, you kind of see the world with her own perspective. And then you can. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:22] What is she commenting on? What is he commenting on?
Intern 2: [00:34:25] What are they that's so valuable? Sorry, I've. Yeah. No. Yeah. I was just going to ask about this interview question on the clock. Like, I've never heard a song like this. Like, the question is, is 315 and what's the angle in between the between the.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:40] Hour and the minute hand?
Intern 2: [00:34:42] And it's, it's not like zero. How is it 7.5 like because.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:47] The three is past the three. Oh, exactly. It's at 15. It's a quarter of the way through the hour.
Intern 3: [00:34:54] Was I had the same response or even the same reaction. I was like, isn't that the same? And she was like, No.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:00] And that's why it's a brain teaser.
Intern 3: [00:35:02] Exactly. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:04] That's that one is literally in our technical interview course. It's the very fine one. There's a couple of others in there to be interview. It's like these people, they just regurgitate the same shit over and over again. I don't know.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:16] It's like.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:17] Come on, it just gives. Good. It's okay. I mean. I think those are just silly.
Intern 2: [00:35:24] But I do have a question then In general, like Patrick, if if you get that question in an interview, if you just answer like immediately just 7.5, because you just know the answer like from that, would they would they just kind of be disappointed like, oh, like, you know, you knew it or you could.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:44] I mean, it depends. It depends how like on your ethics. Right. And you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:49] You could just.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:35:49] Say. I know this. You can just say, I've heard this brainteaser before. That actually might give you more points.
Intern 2: [00:35:57] Okay. Okay. If you like, acknowledge that you that you don't like.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:00] Yeah, I'd be like, I know it's 7.5 because the three is this bastard that you explain the logic behind. I would still explain the logic behind it to show that you understand it, but be like I've heard that I don't want to come across like I suddenly came up with it in my head. Yeah, you could be that. Because that's a pretty tricky one. You can laugh, right? Like it's an opportunity to do something else with the with the answer. And then they might ask you another one. And you're like, that one I haven't heard. And, you know, like, I have no clue.
Intern 3: [00:36:28] Right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:29] But that's okay, because then it's like, okay, well, he's like, that is something that especially if you if you're being interviewed by somebody who really values like how trustworthy you are and that type of thing, I think go a long way. Making a good impression.
Intern 3: [00:36:47] All right. One of my friends just told me he had an interview yesterday with a hedge fund and they were like, can you please calculate without without pen or pen or a calculator? He was like 2439 multiplied by 4378. And he was like, Come on, Miami, What do you want me to do? Just because I'm at the PCU doesn't mean I have I don't know. It's not like he has this brilliant Chinese calculator and it's heading was like, Come on, let's stay realistic.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:22] Well, I mean, I think the issue is more how do you how would you approach that problem? So it's not about getting it right.
Intern 3: [00:37:29] That makes sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:30] It's not about getting it right or being able to quickly respond to it. It's like, well, how would you break that problem down? So this is another very frequent brainteaser is giving really large math problems 42 times 68. So it's like off the top of your head, you're like, Oh, I can't do that. Like, nobody can do that in their head. Well, there are no actually, there are people who can do it really fast in their head that's with a certain type of brain, a certain type of brain chemistry and brain type can do that. But for the most part, most neurotypical people cannot do that. So I think that's the whole point. The whole point is see, how do you respond under pressure? And so like, let's say it was something that's a really hard one. The one you just said is insane. But if you said, okay, well, it was like 2000 something and 4000 something, you break it down, be like, okay, well, let's just say it like 2000 times 4000, right? Suddenly you're able to say, okay, we're probably in the ballpark. Let's start at like 8 million, whatever it is. I don't even know what it is or what are the 2008 million, right? Yeah. And so then you say, okay, 8 million then like, okay, 230. What was that? You can say what was it? And they'd be like, I'd be like, okay, so 300. So this and you'd be like, okay, so it's probably 8 million, 300, whatever you start getting.
Intern 2: [00:38:44] Close to, right? So much sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:38:46] And so then suddenly they're like, Oh man, he's breaking the problem down into smaller bits. He's approaching this like he's trying to do this. And so, like, even if you're not amazing at math, you can kind of get in the range and be like. Um. Make a joke. You make a joke.
Intern 3: [00:39:02] Right. Right. And it's it makes so much sense.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:07] And you could even make something we like. You could even say, like, look, look, you may get somebody in here that can do that that question in a few seconds. But come on, are they going to be able to beer with them? And I.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:18] Just I wouldn't say that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:22] But like you could say something, but like, what are they going to have? Are they going to have the social skills and the team skills to actually be able to communicate when they don't?
Intern 3: [00:39:29] Exactly. Exactly. And even in the associate level or VP level, it's not about calculating. It's more about getting deals than getting the deals. Well, hedge fund, hedge fund. Is it is it your hedge fund?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:42] It's not deals. Hedge fund. It's more about analyzing data quickly with imperfect information, making decisions and recommendations on like stuff. So I don't know what kind of hedge fund it was if it was a quant hedge fund. They're really trying to see like more like just actual brute strength capacity and IQ on certain certain levels. So like if you're on a quant fund, that's a much more appropriate type of brainteaser because you have to you have to just be so comfortable around numbers or just a computer science majors and PhDs. There tend to be more comfortable around numbers and with algorithms and stuff like that, which is more important for logic, right? And so like the way I broke down is logically, even if you don't have a super human brain that can do that, you're at least approaching the problem logically. And that's what they want to see.
Intern 3: [00:40:34] So that makes sense. I will reach out to my friend and explain that we we saw the problem from from the wrong perspective.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:40:42] Yeah. It's not about it's not about getting it right. And like, oftentimes they'll give you it's not just like crazy math questions like that. They'll sometimes give you just, well, that's like or like how many windows are in New York City? How many ping pong balls can fit in a 747 airliner? These sizing questions is very it's very common in consulting. And again, it's just how you approach it and how you start breaking the problem down into more digestible chunks.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:09] And I definitely have.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:10] No pressure too.
Intern 3: [00:41:11] Yeah, I definitely have to read the. Yeah. The Court The interview courses. Yeah, for sure. Sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:16] Yeah, it has a lot is.
Intern 3: [00:41:18] What I have understood so far. It's that we have spent 25 hours in our work. We get like three classes for free. Did I understand that right.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:30] Yeah. For every 25, every 25 hours you get in three and three articles, you get free course. But the interview course I've interview course includes technical, behavioral and networking. That's one course.
Intern 3: [00:41:44] Oh, that's good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:47] Yeah, that one's a good one. And if, if you want to do financial modeling, I would start to excel. That's like the foundation. Make sure you're using the tool properly. Then go with financial statement modeling, then valuation. Dcf manda LBO, I leave M&A and LBO. It's like because everyone jumps to that, but it's like, well, you don't have the foundation of like knowing how to play the instrument in Excel so.
Intern 3: [00:42:08] So. Yeah. Thanks for the advice. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:11] No problem. Anything else, guys? Yeah. Anything else?
Intern 2: [00:42:14] Yeah, I do have a really quick question on the courses. I've redeemed a few. Except because I'm still working on the intern on the internship. I don't have a ton of time on them. Once we have the free course.
Intern 2: [00:42:24] It's there for, like, basically ever. Yeah, You got it, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:28] No rush.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:29] No rush, right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:31] No rush. Except your own drive. I would say to you, though, like I'd say there's going to be more value right now and you kind of get the I've interview course, read the networking course. Yes. And start applying the lessons there to LinkedIn and start doing that because that's going to be the skill that's the most correlated with your success.
Intern 2: [00:42:51] Definitely.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:42:53] Especially since you're so young and like, you're not even going to be hit with the real interviews any time soon.
Intern 2: [00:42:58] Right, exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:01] So give me more information on like, do you ask good questions? Do you have you done homework prior? Did you look at the LinkedIn? See what they were commenting on And like, you know, did you wish them the happy birthday like Muhammad? Are you likable?
Intern 3: [00:43:14] Yes. And and even even if I had done the mistake that I didn't have the right answer at with the brainteaser, I replied and said, thank you for the interview and everything like that. And I replied at 1515. So it's kind of like. All right. He kind of he kind of got it. Because I realized.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:36] As a joke, you probably exactly at that time.
Intern 3: [00:43:39] Exactly. Exactly. It's it's just the little things you can do to stand out.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:44] And actually, like, let you plant a memory.
Intern 3: [00:43:47] Exactly. Exactly.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:48] So in six months, when you read. Hey. Oh, you're so funny. Yeah. We'll have you come.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:53] In.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:54] For an interview. No problem.
Intern 3: [00:43:57] But hopefully I get the second one and we I say I'd say optimistic and hopefully we get that done.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:06] It's a lot to be said for energy to positivity, smiling. Like Mohammed has. You have an energetic personality. You can see it. So that's infectious in a in an interview. It becomes more of a conversation rather than I don't want to grill you because you seem like a nice guy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:23] You know what I'm saying?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:24] If it makes a difference versus if you go in, like, stoic, like, serious.
Intern 3: [00:44:30] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:30] Right now, what can happen is if you're a little too goofy or too nice or too jokey, you can get an associate that's going to grind you.
Intern 3: [00:44:39] Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:40] It's going to grind you hard. Tell me about this. Give you brainteasers. Give you the whole interview. It would just be torture. But that's where, like, being ready for that and just nailing it. All right, back is, like, very powerful.
Intern 3: [00:44:55] That's true.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:44:55] So it's like reading the room. So if you find that, you're like, Oh, I slept a little too far, or I made a joke that wasn't right. Or like, even ideally, you haven't made that mistake when you walk into a room, but you read the person and realize this person is like, No bullshit. They're angry, they're pissed off, they don't want to be doing this interview. But you read that and you're still able to make a connection and turn it a little bit. That's the true skills of interviewing and networking, and that's where that more than anything, is, why networking is so important. Not because it's going to get you more interviews even. It's just going to build up your skills of talking with people. That's where that's where it's that's where people are like, Oh, but like, it's such a low hit, right? Yeah, it's low here, but it's the only way you're going to get on the phone with people or start meeting with people for coffee. It's it's, it's the only way and that's the only way you're going to get the reps in to be good about speaking about yourself. But getting answering good questions about actually learning more about the industry and showing and showing genuine interest.
Intern 3: [00:45:57] That's powerful advice for sure.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:59] That's like that's really where the value is coming from. It's actually getting on those calls. It's not like, Oh, is this one person going to get me the job? Especially Adrian, for you. Like you have so many you have a couple of years before you're even should be worried about that. Right?
Intern 3: [00:46:14] So I can remember one of my interviews I had like the team mailed me like ten times with different interview times and I was at the wrong time and it was so chaotic. And I just entered the Zoom meeting and the VP was sitting like that in the in the investment banking interview. And his shirt was like plugged off because he was so pissed and I didn't have these skills in the first time. And I just realized this is going nowhere. Like this is going nowhere. And even if I and that's exactly what Patrick just said, if you had the skills to turn the this, this, this negative atmosphere into something positive, it's it's going to be insane. But I hadn't even.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:00] If you don't turn it into something positive but you survive and that person when they're around the table talking about all the.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:06] Candidates.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:07] You're the one they don't shit on as much. That's right. They all sucked. They were all, like, really weak. I don't know where we're getting these kids. This person couldn't even tell me. Walk me through a DCF. This person could need to do this, but he doesn't mention your name, and everyone else liked you.
Intern 3: [00:47:23] That's possible.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:24] So you got to understand, like, it's about surviving those negative situations, too, and trying to be like, sometimes people walk out and like, Oh, I'm screwed. Like, there's no way I get an offer here. And then they get an offer call because guess what? That person was a jerk to everybody. And they're like, We need to hire somebody now. Like, I don't care what you say, you know?
Intern 3: [00:47:44] That's true. That's right. I really appreciate your time. Awesome.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:48] I'm going to run. I got. I got a call. But thanks, everybody, for joining. We'll do it again. These are fun. Little more intimate calls with the smaller groups.
Intern 2: [00:47:57] It's fun. Thank you so much.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:00] Good luck with your move, Adrian. When is it? Next week.
Intern 2: [00:48:02] No, next month, Early. Okay. Good luck.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:07] All right, guys. Thank you. Thank you. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis. And till next time.
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