LEK vs Deloitte S&O
I realize this topic has been discussed before, but could anyone who has made a decision between these two firms offer any insights as to why you chose one over the other?
My offers are for the same city, with the same base and sign-on, though LEK pays a sizable bonus at the end as well. My general impression is that LEK places better into B-school than Deloitte, but that Deloitte S&O is quickly rising.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
LEK > Deloiitte S&O in terms of rank.
LEK-tons of market research/PE due diligence work translates into short term duration projects since you're doing work for them close to signing the Term Sheet..aka very long hrs.
Deloitte - a hobnodge of strategy, operations, and IT. Deloitte S&O is nothing really great, I know a lot of Kellogg MBAs there who hate it. Bonus is not great but base is excellent (higher than LEK). The only advantage here is the exposure to operational consulting, virtually non-existent at LEK.
Since you're an undergrad and you're pretty much useless at that stage, I would go with LEK, it will probably yield better exit ops for you (PE, banking, MBB) if you get laid off before b-school, which is highly likely since LEK is known for rapid layoffs. They rescinded offers a few years ago from top b-schools and I think for some time were banned from recruiting at the top-8.
Good luck. Former consulting (SDG) analyst (useless tool)
I {respectfully} disagree with comment above. You need to stick with the facts, not opinion: Deloitte not only has a higher reputation as ranked by 3rd party analysts (#1 in strategy in NA - out ranking all of the botique strategy firms), does more strategy work than LEK (which will make you more attractive to and better prepared for Bschool), and has a ridiculously high placement % at top business schools because it's part of your promotion path and you get coaching and resources on how to get in ... oh and did I mention Deloitte REIMBURSES you for Bschool if you return?
I spent 4 years there out of undergrad as an analyst, and got into all 3 business schools that I applied to - went to Kellogg so also don't understand the comment above about Kellogg MBAs who hate it as we have the highest number of formers return to the firm from Kellogg.
If you are interested in doing cool strategy work, getting good client interaction with senior executives (and not stuck in some back room crunching numbers), and getting into a top b-school... sounds like Deloitte is the easy choice.
And I respectfully disagree with above. Vault is not exactly an authority, which is the same reason companies like IBM, accenture, PWC, KPMG etc. are ranked so highly, but fine based on your 3rd party facts sure. That being said talk to headhunters... I was speaking with a women who just this year placed her first Deloitte S&O guy, shes been working to place LEKers according to her for over a decade
In absolute terms it is possible that Deloitte does more strategy work than LEK, but in terms of as a percentage of the total work it is no contest. 95% of the work you do at LEK is strategy. There is no IT work. The other 5% is operations work. I don't know what the exact percentages are from Deloitte I can only offer anecdotal evidence from friends, but I imagine its much more like 20-70-10, strat, ops, it
100% of LEKers who applied to B-school directly from LEK got into the top 8, I dont know what the numbers are at Deloitte, but if you tell me Deloitte is better I call bull shit. I know a lot about Deloitte sponsoring for b-school and its not that clear cut. Everyone who wants sponsorship at LEK gets it, because they want their talent back. At Deloitte you require multiple partners to sponsor you and there are only so many spots...
If your major points are on strategy projects and b-school I arrive at a different conclusion. Actually if you just want to look on Linkedin, you can see several former Deloitte consultants that now work at LEK, I doubt if you can find one that did the reverse.
As far as other points made. LEK makes more than Deloitte ALL IN. Deloittes base is higher, but when you factor in bonuses and profit share LEK makes about 5-10% more for first years, and around 10-20% 2nd and 3rd years.
Other major points to make, travel. Deloitte you will be flying out Monday morning or Sunday night to all over the country. You are not staffed locally unless you are on a federal project, which no one wants. I have friends in Virginia flying out to California (it was 10 hours each way twice a week)... At LEK you don't travel nearly as much at all.
Project duration: At Deloitte you may be on probably typically 2-5 projects a year in S&O. At LEK its closer to 8-12. Its a by product of not doing as much operations and sticking more towards strategy.
PE- LEK does a lot, Deloitte does nothing. If you want to work for a PE firm ever you can't do that from Deloitte you can from LEK.
socola: Could you speak more to your assertion that LEK is known for rapid layoffs? I haven't heard of that before and it's interesting that you'd still pick LEK over Deloitte if that is true.
Thanks all for the responses. Just to clarify, Deloitte S&O and LEK are actually offering the same exact base salary.
Just how much of a sweat shop is LEK really? Can anybody with experience there speak to hours/week?
I've interviewed at L.E.K and Deloitte. While the L.E.K guys were definitely more impressive on paper, the analysts and consultants were all burnt out and depressed. Nobody looked like they were enjoying themselves, which is probably not ideal in a recruitment situation. At my Deloitte interview, everyone I spoke to sounded like they genuinely enjoyed their work and colleagues. In the end i didn't have to end up choosing (as I didn't receive an offer from L.E.K), but to be honest, I would have probably preferred Deloitte anyway. Also, L.E.K are world famous for their workload and massive cutbacks.
I am considering an offer from Deloitte S&O as well and am curious about the bonus situation. The offer letter said nothing about a year end bonus. Is that just how things work at Deloitte? Or is there a bonus, and if so, what kind of size are we talking about?
Agreed in that If you want to do PE/HF related work then take LEK over Deloitte hands down. Deloitte does very little on that front.
However, if you want a lower burnout rate and more of a "normal" consulting lifestyle, i.e. 65 hours/week with peak at about 85-90 hours occasionally (excluding travel time), then Deloitte probably is a better choice. Obviously, it's because of the types of work that LEK specializes in.
Also, if you want to get into M7, it's more/less a wash -- As long as you're not incompetent, you WILL get sponsored for BSchool at Deloitte and the hit rate for M7 is about 85-90%. Deloitte will pay for your BSchool, adjust to $135k salary, give you sign-on bonus, and you'll like get your network back post-MBA....pretty sweet deal especially if you're known to be a high performer.
If you want to get out after 2-3 years, most people I know do end up getting the jobs they want (F500 Corp Strategy, Education Management, Startup, etc)....again, outside of PE/HF/Banking I think the exit opps is a wash between the two consulting companies.
Lastly, don't know much about LEK's non-finance side, but Deloitte does have quite a bit of strategy work. As long as you build the right network, and there are plenty of opportunities for you to do so, you will get on strategy projects (Growth, Customer Experience, Digital Media, Manufacturing Expansion, Customer Segmentation, etc).
Full disclosure - Current Deloitte S&O so definitely not talking out of my ass here.
Thanks for all the responses so far!
Can anyone shed more light on the difference in terms of exit-opps between the two? I've been hearing that LEK is better overall, even outside of the finance world. How true is that?
Also, in terms of b-school, which realistically gives you a better chance to place into H/W/S? The people I interviewed with at LEK were all HBS, Wharton, or INSEAD alumni which leads me to believe that they place very well...
This post is full of mis-information. Hope some of the below helps
My Background: Worked at LEK, got an offer from S&O among other places, and have since left the consulting world. I will note I did not like my experience at LEK (I think this would have largely been true whatever consulting firm I worked at, though). I will try to be unbiased as possible and simply state fact. In all, I think its hard to choose between two firms, and
1) LEK had massive layoffs: False. Perhaps you are thinking of Parthenon which recently rescinded offers from HBS and got kicked out of campus recruiting. LEK has never had layoffs, or rescinded offers
2) Confused about base salary since posters said it was the same. Anyhow here's the data I have. Currently FY associates make 68K base + Profit share + sign on; when I got my S&O offer it was 65K base + sig non which was a few years ago, so there is a good chance it is higher than LEKs now.
3) Tuition reimbursement: every good consulting firm offers this, so its not a differentiator (yes LEK has this). You do have to go back to consulting to get this, which I don't understand why anyone would go back after their first couple years
4) LEK hours: on par with other consulting firms. I avg'd 60 hours while I was there; most avg 60-65. There is huge variation though, probably more so at LEK which definitely hurts (its the swings in hours that really kill; some weeks 45, other weeks 80). I would stay away from the Chicago office, which is the worst at LEK and their house do tend to suck a fair bit more.
5) The work at LEK: Lots of PE, a good chunk of strategy, a fair bit of mindless life sci research shit. Industry focus will depend on the office with the east coast being big on PE/life sci/retail/aviation and west coast PE/media/healthcare
6) After LEK: lots of business school (this year many at Tuck/Kellogg a few at Harvard Wharton; nothing worse than Tuck; but the very top is still the exception (which is also is at Deloitte). Honestly, consultants do not stand out in MBA admissions. Fair amount go into PE, some into corporate strat, others into misc stuff
FYI: I ended up choosing LEK because of my interest in PE and their stronger focus on strategy. In the end, if it were between the two I would pick LEK again which is heavily biased (though, if I could re-pick I wouldn't have gone to consulting)
I would choose based on what you think you will honestly and legitimately enjoy most, once you start working you'll see how important this is ... You choose based on exit opps your heading down a bad path (they should be considered, but should not be the deciding factor)
Thanks Paper:
I'm not choosing on exit opps alone. I actually spent a summer at BCG, and truth be told, I really didn't enjoy it. I worked around 75-80 hours a week and only 20% of my intern class is actually returning to my office. I know I like consulting, and I know that I'm good at it. I just want to work slightly lesser hours while spending my free hours continuing work on a startup that I've been in involved in for quite a while.
That being said, the decision between the two firms is quite difficult because I can't quite tell which will allow me more free time to work on my own thing. I'd presume that the lack of travel at LEK would offset the lower work hours + travel at Deloitte, but I'm not quite sure as it varies heavily by office, time of year, and sheer luck.
I think between Paper's post on LEK and my post on S&O you should have a good idea on your questions...
BTW, Deloitte's 1st Yr BA offer is up to 70k + sign on + moving. There's no bonus for BAs but will kick-in at Consultant level (after 2 years).
Also, for Deloitte, H/S is probably around 20-30%, but really depends on other parts of your application (GMAT, crazy extras, essays). However, the acceptance rate really kicks up at 3-7 range (Wharton, Kellogg, Booth, Sloan, CBS).... Finally, the general floor for S&O at MBA level is around Michigan and Duke, which isn't bad as long as you're not aiming for VC/PE/HF types of jobs.
LEK is better than Deloitte in rpestige, don't use rankings they're useless the consulting world hierarchy doesn't fluctuate year to year much as b school rankings, notwithstanding US news ranking deltas. LEK did rescind offers from Kelloggers in 2008 I think, but again that was an anomaly makret with frozen credit markets and a major recession ensuing, so LEK to say the leas had a lot of low utilization. Nevertheless, many firms also did this so I don't blame them.
I always pick my next job based on exit strategy, otherwise you're wasting your time there, and time is your most prized asset, far exceeding the value of the dollar.
ALso remember at the analyst level you dont get to pick your projects. At LEK, most of their work is strategy, so the chances of you getting on an interesting project that will help yourr esume stands out. Yes, Deloitte may also have strategy, btu they have a shitload fo crap work: merger itnegration, IT implementation, etc. As an analyst you could get staffed tehre, and those projects are years. Good luck getting off it.
You could also try Manbearpig, who seems to be quite vocal about his experiences at Deloitte S&O...
Also, I don't know how it is in the US offices, but friends I know from Deloitte have had decent opportunities with internal mobility. One or two also participated in a program where they got to volunteer in a developing nation with some initiative (e.g. strategy, starting up education for poor kids, etc.) via the firm. Dunno how limited the spots are for something like that, but it might look decent for your mba application if you're into that microfinance stuff.
Don't know anything about LEK, but paper's got that pretty covered. Paper: did you end up transitioning into PE or industry after LEK?
LEK > Deloitte I think
Lek by a fair margin. No question.
For exit ops and prestige, LEK, no doubt. I don't know though... idk how I'd feel as a consultant doing no travel, at least in my early years
Which colleges or MBA programs does LEK recruit at? I attend a target school and LEK doesn't recruit here. I also have a friend at Dartmouth and he told me a bunch of consulting firms aren't recruiting there either apparently.
I am not sure what schools they do OCR at, but here is the list of schools that the most recent intern class came from.
MBA: HBS, MIT, Booth, Kellogg, Wharton, Fuqua, Columbia, Haas, Stern, Dartmouth
Undergrad: Harvard, Stanford, Berkely, Georgetown, U of Chicago, Northwestern, BYU, BU
If they don't do OCR at your school, reach out to an alum working at the firm for advice and shoot the recruiter your resume + cover letter.
They also recruit at Penn, Dartmouth, and Notre Dame.
Source: https://lek.tal.net/vx/lang-en-GB/mobile-0/system-42/appcentre-2/brand-…
LEK. The Big 4 haven't (yet -- they're certainly trying) closed the gap with the strategy boutiques.
Now, all things being equal, I would probably take LEK out of undergrad, assuming I had no idea what I wanted to do. That being said, if I knew that I wanted to something more Operations focused (e.g. Supply Chain), Deloitte is an obvious choice. Similarly, if I knew that I had no interest in PE, going to a firm that does a TON of Due Diligence might not be the best fit.
Out of college though, when 90% of people have no idea what's going on or what they want, go to LEK, unless you're one of those 10%.
Info on LEK and Deloitte S&O (Originally Posted: 09/24/2011)
Summered at a BB IBD and wasn't extended an offer but currently looking to explore consulting for full-time opportunities. I attend a non-target and my cumulative GPA(3.43.5) isn't so hot, but major >3.7, so I think M/B/B is out of the question. Excluding this, I think my work experience is very very good.
I would just like some general info on L.E.K and Deloitte S&O. I've already used the search function (as some knucklehead invariably suggests in response to posts such as these) but the results generated weren't as granular as I would like.
I would like a rough estimate of the # of Associates and Business Analysts L.E.K and Deloitte S&O respectively brings on each year and diversity within each practice. I am interested in PE, hence the reason I am focused on L.E.K, but would like to have my offer moved to NY for Deloitte S&O if extended one. I attend a school in the mid-atlantic so my offer would probably be for a regional office. How open in Deloitte to such a move?
I am also really interested in obtaining an MBA sometime down the road and have always been curious as to how Deloitte places so well into top MBA programs. Refer to this page http://poetsandquants.com/page/2/?s=top+feeder+companies&x=0&y=0. As most business schools would not like you to believe, where you work means a fuck ton to them. They're #1 at Columbia, #2 at Cornell, #5 at Harvard just behind M/B/B and Booz, and #7 at Wharton.
My understanding is that most business schools seek about 3-5 years of experience before applying, how come they are accepting by the boat-loads kids in consulting (M/B/B, Booz, Deloitte etc) with just 1-1.5 year of experience under their belt by the time they apply seeing as you apply to B-School the fall semester immediately preceding the fall semester you plan on matriculating? Just something that's always stumped me.
Been lurking around the forum for awhile but forgot my username and was too lazy to look it up...so haven't really had a chance to contribute until now. Like MBP, I'm currently at Deloitte S&O and can definitely bring a little more insight into what the firm has to offer (of course within bounds).
If you get an offer from Deloitte, you'll likely have the option of choosing which office to go to. The office that you choose will likely determine your network, which in turn will likely determine the types of projects that you work on. If you are into finance, NY and Boston are definitely the offices that you want to get into.
Loved the site that you posted above, it further shows the progress that S&O has been able to make the last few years. This year's incoming class of BAs is about 85-90 total from across the country. We are definitely not as selective and yield rate is not as high as M/B/B (ex: lost most of targets at a top school to Bain), but most of the BAs that we get are still very talented (75% top 25 schools, rest top 5% of the class).
At Deloitte, 2 years as BA and 1 year as a Consultant and off to B-School you go (so actually 3 years total) -- We are definitely building solid relationships at some of the top business schools. For example, this past year the executive director of admissions for Ross, Fuqua, and Haas visited the Chicago, San Francisco, and Atlanta offices and had a presentation/intimate roundtable discussion with 10-15 consultants applying to BSchools. For the most part, Michigan/Duke is usually the lowest in terms of rankings that we feed into BSchools.
The reason why BSchools so covet consultants is something that you can easily find on forums. The types of work that BAs/CS do and the skills that you learn really prepare you for BSchool. A example sample of projects that a consultant experience through prior to BSChool may be: Business case / M&A synergy (finance), sourcing transformation (supply chain / operations), go-to market (strategy)....these are some of the very key classes/competitions that you go through at BSChools. Similarly, the skills that you learn (modeling, brainstorming, storyboarding, interviewing, bullshiting) are 100% transferrable to BSChool and beyond as well.
Let me know if this helps....
I found this very helpful, thanks for you info.
I know this has been brought up in the past, but firms like LEK are recruiting the EXACT same kids as MBB. As a smaller firm, there are less interview spots and with more mediocre stats you are less likely to even get an interview.
About the feeder thing, one thing I would definitely keep in mind is the number of people in a class. LEK's analyst class is about 50, if 8 get to Wharton thats 16%, and from some presentations I remember thats roughly accurate. For Deloitte I'm just guessing here but including BA and BTA were talking about 500 maybe 600, where 12 get into Wharton. 2% of the class (This is what I'm referencing) -http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/07/top-feeder-companies-to-whartons-m…
Good luck
On a side note, why does the aforementioned link list Morgan Stanley and Oliver Wyman as headquartered in Boston?
Actually the pool for S&O applying to BSchool is a lot smaller than that. I would say 65-70 a year at most...can't comment about the other parts of Deloitte ( tax, audit, technology). So the denominator is a lot smaller and % at the target bschools is pretty high as well.
A rough rule of thumb for acceptance rate at S&O is 2x higher than average acceptance at Harvard/Stanford, 2-3x at the rest of M7, and 3x up to 100% for rest of top 15 schools
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