I’ve been lurking for years and have tried to consume as much knowledge and advice as possible. And after reading the info on Post-MBA associates trying to break into PE in general, it definitely sounds like a long shot. But even with that said, I'm still trying to figure out the best way to move into REPE.
I graduated university 5 years ago and have been working for a family office RE Developer and have worked on 3 major green field hospitality development deals each ranging from 30-50mm in GDV, each in a different country. It’s been an awesome experience being part of the deal team (sourcing deals, running models, leading DD, putting up board proposals, executing JVAs / SPAs) as well as the project team (developing architectural plans & layouts, acquiring construction permits, managing the tender process, and actually building something). Since we’ve deployed the bulk of our capital (which will be tied up for the next couple years) I’ve been sliding into a more operations-oriented role on our largest project, attending Owner/Architect/Contractor meetings and setting up the pre-opening team (building up the sales and marketing orgs and other property pre-opening related work). As I’ve shifted out of the deal closing phase of the development cycle, I find myself wanting to focus more on the finance side of RE as opposed to the developing & operating side (at least at this next phase in my career).
At this point, you might be wondering why I want to focus on the finance side / go into REPE. About a year ago, we tried to secure some funding from a 1B AUM REPE firm and reached the DD phase but the deal just didn’t pan out since we didn’t have enough qualified projects for it to be worth their while – but man they were those guys sharp. They were/are operating on a whole different level, which is a big reason why I’d like to go do what they do. I feel like with my current experience that I can always go back to development, but that I have a short period of time now where it would make sense for me to dive deeper into RE Finance.
Along those lines, I’m planning on getting an MBA degree and focusing on RE finance (depending on the school). M7 acceptance seems very possible with my 730 GMAT. But aside from getting in (which is by no means a sure thing), I’m pretty unclear on whether it’s possible to jump straight to REPE (largely dependent on what school I get into) even though I have pretty solid (self-diagnosed) RE experience. A lot more work will need to be put into my technical / modelling skills just to make sure I can even pass muster (since the models I’m running are not the most complicated).
I originally thought a stint in REIB would be a good way to get the additional exposure and experience but after reading the threads on WSO, it seems like this is not the most advisable route (the analysts do the modelling, associates roles are more managerial, etc.). But aside from “turn back time and go be an IBD analyst after college” and “network during B school and hope you get lucky”, I’m not sure what the other options are. I’m not even sure I’m qualified enough to try and get a REPE summer internship prior to my MBA.
I would love to go into REPE immediately post MBA but am worried that without banking analyst + PE experience prior to the MBA that I’ll be looked over (even if I want to stay in RE industry). Just curious to see what everyone’s thoughts are / common sense check.
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How much would my existing RE experience count for (I’d have to play up my current deal experience) when trying to break into REPE? Most of the threads I’ve seen had OP’s that didn’t have industry or relevant pre-MBA experience. Given my profile, is it even worthwhile to pursue REPE immediately Post MBA?
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If it’s not worthwhile to pursue REPE immediately post MBA, would it be detrimental or beneficial to go for a 2/3 year stint as a REIB associate (for exposure, pedigree, more finance oriented experience than my previous job) and then try and break into REPE after? What about at VP level? (looking more at MM REPE shops since MF’s seem unrealistic).
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Lastly, what about targeting top developers (ie: Hines, Greystar dev role, Avalon bay communities – still not certain on what type of RE developments I’d like to specialize in) and entering as a Development Associate, hopefully in a more acquisitions-oriented role and using that to break into REPE?
My natural skills and talents run more toward the development side of RE, if I’m being completely honest with myself, but I really do enjoy the finance & acquisitions related side of RE and want to spend the next few years focusing on that as opposed to continuing on with development. And if I’m going to spend the next 5-7 years focusing on Finance, then I might as well shoot for REPE - at the very least I’ll come out of it all with a bunch of RE related experience and should still be quite marketable for other RE roles.
Any thoughts / comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond!
Handy resource: WSO Family Office Database
Prior RE Experience -> M7 (or even Top 20 MBA) -> REPE is tried and true. LinkedIn searches will confirm this.
Maybe you will have trouble getting into Blackstone/ Carlyle/ KKR, but the vast majority of firms on the PERE 100 List would love to hire that profile. Again- search on LinkedIn and you will see this fairly common.
As with most things in RE- it would be harder to just rely on OCR and have things handed to you. Work for it and you can get it.
Hi Malta, thanks for taking the time, glad to know that the route isn't as bleak as some of the other threads make it seem!
What you can’t capture on this forum is the intangibles that exist (especially for RE). Your network, how charismatic you are, how much people like being around you, how well prepared you are for interviews.. those are all huge factors.
This website (understandably) focuses a lot on stats. School rankings, GMAT/ GRE scores, GPA, BB rankings, prestige ranking, etc. You can’t put a number on someone’s interpersonal skills.
Everyone has different goals too.
REPE far lower prestige than PE. Much different than general PE.
Just a different personality. But real estate is also just not as complicated as taking over a company and having to figure out how to grow etc.
Does this include RE consulting experience? Or just front office finance experience?
what is RE consulting
Is there any reason that you aren't trying to get into one of those roles directly?
Almost all of the roles you'd be looking at are hired on an as needed basis. You're looking at finishing your MBA 3 years from now if you apply for this upcoming cycle. I'd think that within those 3 years, you'd probably be able to make the one or maybe 2 jumps you need to get into a REPE associate role. The benefit with this strategy being, 1) you're gaining more real working experience and 2) you could tack on a part time / exec mba or part time msre if you're dead set on graduate education ( not exactly a prereq in cre )
Hi Gerry,
Thanks your thoughts.
Part of the reason is to shift geographic locations since i'm currently working internationally, and the other part is to give myself some time to take a break from work and focus on developing my knowledge/skills in RE Finance (full dedication on technical skills). Since i've been running around doing everything under the sun, I'm just a bit worried that my experience is a little too general / amorphous, and having the MBA is just that little badge i get on my resume for security.
As for jumping into some of the roles i'd hope to get directly (without MBA), it really is just that I don't feel qualified. I've sent out quite a number of resumes but nothing has turned up yet (probably because i'm being a little too picky). Maybe i'm just mentally limiting myself though and seeking the "easy" way out with the MBA degree. You do raise a great point though. I'm just not so sure i'd land the necessary roles to hopscotch over because i'd essentially be competing with those kids coming out of MBA programs.
My future prospects at my current company are very promising and they've put me on the fast track. But it's more that I know I wont be able to make a decent living with a family and kids in the future at this current company - so the MBA is a way for me to make the salary jump that I dont think i'd otherwise be a able to secure.
One part of your comment that struck me is the expected salary bump coming out of the MBA program / belief that you'd be competing against MBA students for Associate roles.
I'll address the latter first. The vast majority of Associate roles at Funds / Developers are filled not through MBA grads, but with laterals from the industry. Most Funds / Developers don't even have MBA recruiting, and would much rather take someone with direct work experience (from what you've written your experience seems very relevant).
This links into my other point about an expected salary bump. If you end up at a shop that doesn't have a formalized MBA program, I wouldn't expect to be receiving post-MBA pay. You may end up making ~$100k all-in and come in as an analyst (which is probably where you're qualified to come in already).
I understand your personal reasons, and agree that coming from another country, the MBA may be the way to go. I would just be very cost conscious when deciding between schools.
Do you mind elaborating a bit more on this?
I am looking to make a jump to development but assumed I would need an MBA. I am very hopeful an MSRED could also do the trick but unsure.
Sure, by going to grad school you run the risk of pricing yourself out of a lot of opportunities because you have to service your student loans. Most entry level positions at developers (Hines/Tishman, etc. excluded) don't start off with $100k salaries. If you were start today and take one of two paths:
1) Going to grad school - Applying this cycle puts you 3 years out from graduating from a full-time MBA program. You'll have a chance to network and recruit with small and large companies. Cost is $100 - $200k.
2) Moving directly into what you want to be doing - you could take a lower than post MBA salary / comp now, and in 3 years recruit for the same positions as above, with more relevant experience, and won't owe anyone a dime.
Not saying this is the right way to think about things, but I'd rather have 2-3 more years of relevant experience, without a degree and no debt than the reverse in this business.
Should have prefaced by saying that I did not go to grad school, but was heavily considering last year (Top GMAT, toured schools, etc). Ended up taking a new job offer, and not applying. I was actually heavily leaning towards applying to grad school before talking to former / current students in these programs about my situations ( previous RE experience ).
Obviously this isn't just a career / $ decision, and the above is just my opinion / experience.
Mind if I PM you? Don't wanna derail this thread.
Hey,
Thanks for sharing, and I definitely appreciate hearing your thoughts given that you’ve been down the path.
Definitely makes sense on gaining 2-3 years of on the job experience as opposed to just business school theory + networking (which you can do outside of business school anyway, obviously). I guess with previous RE experience jumping around at developers wouldn’t be too hard, as long as you’re not targeting the top developers.
But I guess i just feel that if I’m looking at getting into REPE that there’s some barrier to entry that an MBA would help me get through.
Mind sharing what you’ve been doing for the past couple of years and what the future is looking like for you? And also whether you feel (as you go up the ladder) that you wish you had ticked the MBA box? (Though from your general direction and advice, I’m guessing that you feel an MBA is not necessary in Development, which I agree with - I’m probably just looking for that “security” from the MBA).
Malta Monkey - feel free to PM but will provide my thoughts below.
I'm at a GP with a product type focus doing Acquisitions / Asset Management. Have been getting contacted by headhunters / my network with opportunities ranging from other GP roles to acquisitions positions from firms in the PERE 100. For junior roles, all anyone cares about is that your 1) a normal / personable human and 2) can UW using Argus / Excel. It's easier to make the move upstream at an earlier stage in your career as well. I understand the thought process behind the need to "credential" and there are definitely shops that place a heavier emphasis on recruiting MBA's (the old Trammell model) but they are not the norm.
If you can accept that you're never going to work at Blackstone, and focus your efforts on the guys that are doing asset level deals, you'll quickly realize that every shop is pretty much doing the same thing and your skill sets are much more transferable than you think.
As for the future, I wouldn't be opposed to taking on a part-time or Executive MBA or MSRE/D, and honestly might consider the CFA as I recognize the value that brings (i.e. Pension Fund UW your fund like to see senior execs with something but not a deal breaker if they don't have anything). I just don't see the value of voluntarily taking myself out of the workforce at this stage to get there.
My only piece of advice is to not create fake barriers for yourself. A lot of people might tell you that you can't do it without this or that, but I've found that to be untrue. I went from 2 years of BO consulting to 3 yrs in D/E brokerage to 1.5 years in REPE acquisitions and just accepted a new job in development. All that matters is your will to succeed and connections (that you forge on your own obviously). Timing and luck also play a large factor that you can't really control. I will echo the above though that some firms care about pedigree (i.e. megafunds). If your end goal is to work on of those acquistions team, then the MBA is worth the time as it is a prerequisite for most.
Thanks guys for your comments.
Wow, that’s a pretty awesome career story. Did you find that you got the positions from networking and finding out about a position opening, or did you send out a ton of resumes and get the job that way (I presume you did both, but how did you actually get the jobs you transitioned to?)
100% networking. Constantly meeting people at events, through the job, following up to have drinks/dinner etc. Blasting out cold emails until I got the responses I wanted. For the most recent job I accepted, I took three avenues: 1. I submitted app into the black hole 2. I used my network to pull any string I found for an internal referral 3. after none of that worked I figured out who the manager was and sent him a cold email to follow up on 1 and 2. After that I got a response. This was over a year ago - I interviewed for the same position then but ended up in second place. He recently reached out to me for another opening and this time I got the offer - if they didn't seek me out I would have stayed in my current role as I was in a great seat already and wasn't actively looking. The moral of the story is you have to be relentless in your pursuit because if you aren't then someone else will be. Also, be patient - sometimes it seems like there is little to no hope and want to give up but don't. If you keep working towards what you want good things will eventually come your way. Good luck!
Also M-7 most of the schools do not have a large real estate program. Wharton I believe is the best. Harvard/Stanford I would be surprised if they even have one real estate course. Booth is much more portfolio theory. I believe northwestern does have a full program. Columbia’s finance program is focused on value investing. USC/NYU could be better options for real estate.
I have looked a lot at MBA business schools">M7 (and other) programs.
HBS has a real estate focus, courses, and a club (and a great CRE Meeting with some high level people)
Wharton has a great RE program
Kellogg has a RE program, albeit small but still places very well
Columbia has a very strong and incredibly well connected program
MIT, Booth, and Stanford still have alumni who do RE but their programs are smaller or nonexistent. The name brand of these schools are still incredibly impressive.
NYU, USC, UCLA, UT McCombs, and UNC all place very well in RE as well
Out of the entire HBS class right now, there's about 15-20 interested in real estate. HBS is HBS so it doesn't really matter, but RE is hardly of interest there
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