Maybe it's because it's more of a Euro bank thing but I don't think I have ever seen commodity trade finance discussed on WSO aside from somebody asking about a job opportunity years ago. It's one of my default recommendations for people looking for internships before applying to physical trading jobs but I must confess I don't personally deal with commodity bankers much because I'm at a larger player. Does anyone on here work in the field? Any idea what lifestyle, comp is like? I would think the more vanilla stuff ends up being like general trade finance (Citi TTS style) that is becoming
20 Jul 2020
What is the best ABCD agricultural trading firm? This in terms of long term compensation, prestige, growth opportunities and long term resume build. Also is there a particular Agricultural product that is best to start with straight out of college or one to avoid? On another note perhaps a seperate topic but interesting as well - is Ag less "prestigious" or offer less long term compensation then metals/energy?
09 Nov 2019
I am a traffic rep/scheduler at a mid-sized O&G marketing/producer services shop. My feedback reviews from the higher-ups have always been very positive, and I think I'm making inroads in that regard. My eventual goal is to become a trader. I have been in this job for about 2 years now; I worked as a supply analyst at a major before. I graduated 3 years back. In terms of compensation package, advancement opportunities, etc. I am totally happy with my job. Scheduling has definitely taught me a lot, and I have gotten to connect with a lot of traders. Although my shop (& firms like ours) don't
07 Apr 2020
This is the only forum where I was able to find and read posts from actual physical commodities traders and I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on starting commodities trading business (a physical commodity trading company) with $20k. For the sake of argument, let's say I have covered my operating expenses for 1 year, setup offshore company and have background in international commercial law.
02 Dec 2019
Most commodity markets tend to be driven by a few basic factors which are freight on one side, price on the other side and qualities. Each commodity market has its own particularities. Most of what I will generally talk about applies to oil and the liquids in particular which is a little bit different from the gas market. Why ? Why is the gas market different from the oil market ?-** The Logistics are different. ** Transport is one part of the logistics chain but the logistics chain involves everything that happens from once you get the basic commodity out of the ground. When it's natural gas
03 Jan 2017
Looking to get some of the opinions of the other physical trade guys in the forum, but anyone feel free to chime in. Given the moves XOM has made, what are your opinions on having another monster trading shop coming into the market? I agree with the sentiment that they arent going to start paper trading, but the change of the company being anything different than a price taker is going to be substantial. I know they are essentially anchoring a new trading hub out in Big Perm. Also there have always been certain market signs, like when the banks are in energy trading times are good. What does
13 Jun 2018
I've been on my desk (metals) for two years. I like it here, i still feel like i'm learning, and i do think i could have a successful career here into the future. I don't want to name names but it is considered in the top tier in commodities. However, i have an opportunity to move to a top trading house in the physical space. What would you do? I think the pros and cons are pretty clear for either but i'd like any opinions on the topic. Thank you.
11 May 2018
What commodities are best to trade in the mid/long term? Talking about physical trading at Glencore, Vitol, Trafigura...etc Currently an undergrad in Europe and I have the opportunity to work part-time as an assistant LNG or Copper trader. Physical, not paper trading. I will probably chose the LNG option as the company is a much larger and more dedicated to its physical trading business than the Copper option, but for future career options: Which products are more profitable and have a positive long term outlook? Metals, Oil, LNG, Agricultural products..?
07 Apr 2019
I've been seeing a ton of posts here about this, because it seems that now that BB S&T is downsizing everybody is looking for the next best thing. I am addressing this because I think it needs to be said, and it seems to be what most of these threads come down to. This is definitely geared towards energy but the concepts apply for other commodities too. 1. There are no books or guides like there are for traditional S&T. Yes, there are a few books that you can read that can make you not sound like an idiot when you go interview. That's about the extent of it. They want you to be smart, they want you to work hard, they need you to be personable, and they want you to have some passion for this. They know there's not much you can possibly know, and don't really fully expect you to.
22 Oct 2012
I recently interviewed at the Citi Commodities Analyst program. It has been 2 weeks already and I haven't heard anything back. Did anyone else already interviewed for this position before? Definitely would like to hear your thoughts or share any intelligence.
04 Oct 2019
Hello everyone. I need advice from people in Commodity Trading. I have been offered a role of Marine Coordinator/Operator at a Super Major. I have also interned in Risk for another Super Major. I want to work as a trader in commodities in the future and know that operations knowledge is very useful as a trader as well. We had a frank interview discussion where I said that I'd like to move onto a junior trader role sometime in the future. My question is if in 2-3 years time I don't see a path to a junior trader role at this company will my role as a Marine Coordinator be seen as a good thing if
29 Nov 2018
Hi everyone, i'm new and it's 3:20am in a beautiful city in Italy. Please keep all errors. They are welcome gifts from my part. I have some questions regarding physical commodity trading in Europe, especially in Italy & Germany, since these are the two countries for which I possess the necessary language skills. I have a hard time finding jobs / internships to be honest. Does anybody have some experience in Europe and can give me a hint where to start? I'm finishing my M.Sc. in Finance at a good university in Italy, very good grades, lots of international experience but no relevant working
03 May 2017
Hi. Advice needed for project ideas on commodity trading. For example, I have built macros to price vanilla options as well as option strategies and calculate and chart their Greeks. I'm seeking something of this sort ( programming involved or not) that I can pursue as a personal project related to commodities trading so I can learn and keep myself busy when I'm free. Any ideas welcome.
20 Jun 2018
Hey guys, Wondering if you guys have come across a good reference material or a book on explaining the fundamentals of all market products (i.e., FX, rates, commodities, etc.) that are sold to financial institutions and corporates. I don't need to know the exact mathematical details on pricing or valuation of these various products but rather just need to understand the structure, risks involved, and why clients would need such products. Thanks.
16 Jan 2021
It seems like there's been an increasing amount of attention given to the physical commodities business on this site lately. If anyone can recommend any good books on the subject please post them here. Thanks. P.S.- Already read the King of Oil.
21 Jun 2011
Does anyone know what the trading arms of Chinese oil companies (CNPC, CNOOC, Shaanxi Yanchang, Sinochem, ect.) are like compared to the majors or trading houses. Curious since the last chapter of The World For Sale mentioned that they take on more risk and trade with US sanctioned countries.
12 Apr 2021
Hello WSO , Does anyone have any information regarding structured trainee trader programs at physical commodities trading shops? I know that you are often expected to spend time in ops/scheduling/risk/deals desk etc. in general at the entry-level. For a structured program though, could anyone comment on the steps it often takes to become a trader (required overall knowledge, required/common desks/rotations, tests, length of time/seniority needed, the role of timing or luck etc.) and the likelihood of becoming a trader when on that track. Any examples from specific programs would be great
04 Aug 2012
Bullion sinks to five-year low on concerted wave of selling... 'curious what you guys think of this.. looks like the fall was mainly during the asian trading hours. Is this china's way of trying to assuage fears of impending stock market losses? If this is an unnatural fall, do you think the prices will creep back up? When? https://next.ft.com/f0a12268-2eaf-11e5-91ac-a5e17d9b4cff http://www.wsj.com/articles/gold-continues-sliding-hits-5-year-low-1437…
25 Jul 2015
Growing up, my parents always emphasized the importance of working hard, saving money, and investing wisely. Neither of my parents worked in finance so the only investments I grew up learning about was investing in the stock market and being able to pick certain stocks that were fundamentally undervalued. The storyline sounds familiar to everyone, you search through a number of stocks, find and research more about a company that you understand decently well, purchase shares of the company. If the company does well, everyone is happy, the company's share price goes up, you reap capital gains on your investment, and management of the company is happy as well.
02 Jun 2011
Guys, What's your ranking of commodities desks? I think GS, MS, JPM and BarCap should be the top four. Any ideas? Also, when it comes to each products (Energy, Metals, Ags), how does the ranking look like? Any European bank is strong in this space? Just wanted to open a topic on commod here. Don't think we have a lot of commod people on this forum. Cheers.
28 Apr 2012
mod (Andy) note: "Blast from the past - Best of Eddie" - This one is originally from October 2011. If there's an old post from Eddie you'd like to see up again shoot me a message. At a time when the last thing the world needs is more mouths to feed, our lamentable species is set to cross the 7 billion threshold this week. Even more disturbing is the expectation that we'll reach 8 billion in 2025 and that we'll be over 10 billion by the end of the century. For those looking to put these numbers into context, the number of humans on the planet has tripled since 1940. The bulk of the projected
22 Sep 2012
Trafigura, the giant commodities training firm, is hiring for its graduate programme. You do a 2-year rotation at either geneva, singapore, stamford, buenos aires. Wondering if anyone has interviewed with them. Curious to know what they're like.
14 Sep 2011
Anyone have any info on Citi commodities? They do OCR at my school and a lot of people I know have accepted offers from their commodity S&T desk in Houston. What is their reputation? Is their commodity desk a dying business like at most other firms? Or are they one of the few strong players left like GS? Thanks in advance.
06 Aug 2015
Interesting article on business insider about how Goldman is freaked out about the Volcker rule. Specifically, they're scared of Glencore and the threat it poses to their commodities business. Goldman is one of the 3 big BB commodities players, along with Morgan Stanley and Barclays. Because Glencore is not regulated, it can do whatever it wants with regards to leverage, prop, and compensation. This seems to confirm Midas' post yesterday on the big commodity players. The Real Reason Goldman Should Be Freaking
05 May 2011
Imagine a scenario wherein you have $1 million to invest in any one commodity with a 5-year horizon. Where do you put your money? Where do you see the largest upside potential? The commodity can be physical (you plan on redeeming gold for physical bullion, for example) or financial, ranging from WTI Crude to Sugar No. 14 to South American soybeans to C3 to ISO-4. Just explain your reasoning--very interested to hear what you have to say. Liquid Natural Gas for me, simply because of increasing global demand and the US' abundance of natural gas. If FERC passes regulations to export for the first
09 Jun 2012
Hi everyone, I am currently a 1st year analyst working at a very niche commodities research shop with limited to zero growth prospects ahead career-wise given how small and lean my shop runs. Recently, I've acquired the opportunity to interview for a commodities role at a large investment bank. Initially, the position will entail all operational oriented work such as confirmations & settlements, but the bank has a record of promoting confirmations & settlements guys to FO positions in the long run. I passed through the first few rounds very easily. However, for the final round, the MD i'll be
12 May 2017
Fracking. It is the multi billion dollar word that most of you should know very well. Also known as hydraulic fracturing, the process uses water, sand, chemicals and pressure to crack rock deep beneath the earth's surface, releasing vast amounts of previously unattainable oil and gas. Today, it stands as a stumbling block between the energy industry and critics who risk adding another unnecessary layer of volatility to energy markets which really don't need it.
15 Mar 2011
What has caused the recent surge in commodity prices? From what I know, long commodities is a hedge for inflation, except if QE2's goal was to reverse deflation and have normal levels of inflation, then assuming the surge was based on bets of rampant inflation and we end up getting normal levels, would this not be the next bubble? It doesn't make sense to me that commodities would sky rocket if there were no real catalyst for it, so maybe there is another factor involved.
13 Dec 2010
WSO should consider adding commodities to the S&T dropdown list of options for the S&T badge displayed on profiles. would be much preferred and 'cooler' than the current 'other' tag. Just a thought.
14 Jul 2015
Elementary question, but I seem to have confused myself. Lets say i want to buy a stock and i place a market order. If there is enough size, do I get filled at the best ask price. On the flip side If I am selling the stock at the mkt am I getting filled at the best bid?
22 Mar 2011
Hi guys I am a 3rd year analyst working in a natural resources group at a bulge bracket investment bank. I have developed strong interest and knowledge in sector and want to move to a hedge fund focused on commodities (metals, coal, oil & gas, etc). Can you give me some names of HFs that are active in this space? Thanks
05 Feb 2012
BHP Billiton, Australia BP, United Kingdom Citgo, Venezuela Gazprom, Russia Global Energy Swiss AG, ZUG, Swizterland Gulf Oil, Luxembourg Kuwait Gulf Oil Company, Kuwait Locstein Petroleum Commodities, Switzerland LUKoil, Russia Nippon Oil, Japan Oman Oil Company (OOC), Oman PETRONAS, Malaysia Qatar Petroleum, Qatar Questar, United States of America Reliance Industries Limited, India Repsol YPF, Spain Rompetrol Group N.V., Romania Rosneft, Russia Royal Dutch Shell, Netherlands Sasol, South Africa Saudi Aramco, Saudi Arabia (the largest in the world) Shell Canada, Canada (subsidiary of Royal Dutch Shell) Shell Oil Company, United States of America (subsidiary of Royal Dutch Shell State Oil Company of Azerbaijan, SOCAR Azerbaijan Somerset Refinery, United States of America Total, France
13 May 2010
It dawned on me yesterday while writing my post that we do a lot of speculation on this site...but I am not sure how many of us really speculate. Needless to say if you are working on a desk at a prop shop or at a trading arm of a bulge bracket, you have money in play almost every single day. But how many of you guys are actually putting your own nut on the line? It's tougher now than ever before and I'm curious to see who the risk takers are. I have to be honest and say that I haven't had significant dollars in play since Ford and GE were the safest bet since Jordan in the playoffs.
05 Feb 2011
Hey guys, We all know there´s no such as a bank ranking for trading, everything depends on the desk and things change a lot because entire desks move between banks, but I wanted to get your opinion on what are the top desks in London for these asset classes at the moment, since they are the ones I´m more interested in (particularly rates). I´ve done some searching and I can´t find anything good, everything related is quite dated and usually refers to NY, but I thought SocGen, BNP, Santander or Nomura might have good desks in Europe.
26 Oct 2011
The Financial Times has recently released their top 10 Hedge Fund manager list, and no surprise here, it's pretty much a cross section of the funds found on this recent thread. (Which I just found out also has a link to the article… Moving on.) Net gains for investors since inception was the measure used to rank the managers and a lot of surprising facts about their returns were given, like did you know Eddie Lampert's ESL has earned more than British Airways over the same period?
15 Sep 2010
One of the best articles I read in a long time, fascinating stuff. I heavily recommend it for anyone interested in physical commodity trading, as this is really where fortunes are built. We have no idea how many guys like him (not to the same extent obviously) are making insane money in remote parts of the world. Dan Gertler's bearded face lights up as he looks out the helicopter window. Below, an installation twice the size of Monaco rises from a clearing in the central African forest, where it transforms ore mined from the ochre earth into sheets of copper.
09 Dec 2012
Here's a pretty cool video on why you should invest in Gold over keeping your cash. Set to banging house music. Funny how the legendary investors are shown as buying gold in the present tense. This is obviously a marketing tool for a bullion dealer but, does anyone still buy the gold story? Is it really overplayed? Or does gold still have a long way to go? Either way, despite its meteoric rise over the years it's been taking a beating since December, but with the Euro and the Dollar looking to go nowhere but down and inflation still seeming to be the theme for 2011, there could be more upside
12 Jan 2011
Today some people announced that there will be higher Gold Margins, Gold plunged more than $15 within minutes. In times of HFT drawdowns tend to be more heavier than experts say... BUYBUYBUYBUYBUYBUYBUY ------------------------------------------ SELLSELLSELLSELLSELLSELL
04 Aug 2011
Not trolling, serious question. A family member passed - in his estate he left me farmland (wheat, not irrigated / corn, irrigated). I have been reading about a farmland bubble with the high prices and all - the price per acre has really sky-rocketed and I guess the thought process is that when (if) commodity prices slump / crash (when fed pulls back) that not only will the commodity prices slump, but that farm-land prices will see a dramatic fall. The land is in kansas and nebraska and is managed by farmers - I just collect a paycheck and send in money for supplies every once in a while. The money is great right now, but I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts as to what I should do? Sell the land / Keep it ???
21 May 2011
Which commodity trading majors (glencore/cargill/trafigura/etc..) have the largest/most prestigious desks in the Miami area? I am aware Stemcor has sizeable operations servicing latin america, and know that Bunge has a small desk that takes most of its orders from geneva... I have a family member interested in getting into the physical commodity business in the Miami area and I could use connections to land him an internship but would like to know which desks are moving large volumes and making their own decisions as opposed to just being regional agents receiving orders ferom GVA/Stamford
26 Sep 2010
Hey primates, Just found out I have a 30min phone interview this Thursday for an entry-level risk management position in London with Glencore. Anyone been through this experience before and care to share some advice? I'm guessing because it's a first-rounder it's mostly going to be fit questions, but they did ask a few questions like that on the online application. What else could they fit in 30 minutes? Any help is much appreciated!
04 Oct 2011
For the pros out there. What is your take on crude marketing / trading vs LPG marketing / trading? What would you say is the future of both and which one has more growth potential. What is the relative attractiveness and is one more lucrative than the next (and if so, is the gap expected to narrow?). Long story short, is LPG a good place or should you hold out for crude? Curious to hear from both sides Thanks!
21 May 2015
Hey guys, I recently accepted an offer for SA position on the trading floor of a top supermajor O&G firm (Chevron/Shell/BP) in their physical power & gas group. I was wondering what bonuses are like in these groups. I have a buddy who's doing 1st yr analyst in commodities at a BB and their bonuses were 85-100% of base. I realize that an O&G company won't pay a bonus as large - but I was wondering what the bonus would be close to. I believe 1st year base on the trading floor in question is ~$65k Thanks for your insight.
07 Jan 2015
I got a call on wednesday (4/3) from a major U.S. based physical commodities trader. Today I heard from them again and they booked me for a last-minute flight out to interview with their grains desks in the midwest on Monday. I am curious to see what types of prep work you fellow monkeys think I should do in the two days I have to prepare for the interview. This was a totally off-cycle type of recruitment; I had last contact with this firm in September and am employed with an asset manager at the moment. Totally was not expecting this and curious in general as to what types of brain teasers/assessments to expect.
05 Apr 2013
Already searched. I'm a long-time lurker trying to get things together for my SA spot in S&T this summer. I have the 7th edition Hull book that I've been reading, but I feel like getting my hands dirty with some of the problems would be good. Does anyone have a copy of the 7th edition solutions manual? Note: I've already searched the forum and gone through 5+ pages of google results with no dice. Thanks guys. All my SBs to whoever can provide for what that's worth.
14 Jun 2011
Crossposting from Job forum. I graduated this spring from a top tier university that is more known for its med school than anything else. Due to personal obligations , I stayed at home in the south during summers working blue collar jobs rather than pursuing finance internships. I am really interested in commodities (especially Oil/Gas) and was wondering if anyone had experience breaking into this field out of school. I was a varsity athlete in college and have a relevant degree but am having a difficult time getting traction in my search. Any advice would be immensely appreciated.
25 Jun 2020
Hi, This is a little specific, so sorry in advance. But it probably can be applied generically to a lot of us. I am a reasonably talented and mid-level/rising (~5yrs of successful experience at good places) trader/investor that focuses on the commodities and macro space confronted with two options. Do I go to a hedge fund or a trade house? From the long term career perspective, is it better to go deep at a great place that will give me lots of capital or go broad at one with tighter risk limits? I would think the + on the HF side are: * Your track record is viewed as portable. * You have a broader mandate and can also do macro. * Your payout in a good year is higher.
13 Aug 2014
I guess Linked In took the stage today with their ridiculous valuation, but today Glencore started their offerings. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/19/us-glen…
19 May 2011