What happens to international students?
Currently an analyst with approx 6 months left on OPT. What happens to international students who don't get the h1-b visa? Are firms generally good with transferring people to other offices (assuming it's an EB/BB)?
Also interested to hear if internationals in the US have been able to exit into PE/HF roles? Haven't seen this at my EB even though most Americans exit. Any insights would be much appreciated.
1) What is the overall demand for resources in difficult times? Probably lower, regardless of visa status. IBD is like any other business, if demand for deals drops, so does demand for staff. But this can also be an opportunity for people to pivot towards turn-around/restructuring, LBO/distressed assets and credit facilities. Consider how you can benefit the market in the best way.
2) IF there is demand, the immediate pool will most likely be filled with local staff or staff that does not require expensive paperwork. In times of crisis there tends to be an ethos to stick with your own to help rebuild the nation. Bringing additional people into the workforce who eventually also require a green card sponsorship may not fit the attitude.
3) Risk for government intervention As already seen in the past, the administration needs to showcase it is looking after their own. This situation is their chance to limit foreign employees in gaining certain visa types and/or immigration benefits. It is an election year, after all.
Having said all of these things, WSO is a good resource to figure out which employers still want H1b employees.
Regarding exits: Roles that require significant soft skills and advanced linguistic abilities may not be great for (recent) immigrants. Unless you are from the UK (or comparable nation with English as their first language), English may not be a graduates first language. All of our PE roles are fitted with native speakers in the relevant regions (this does not mean you can not make it).
here is an interesting update: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/200-000-h-1b-workers…
even staff already in the US will leave soon. nobody is taking care of extensions and paperwork, it seems.
do u have stem extension
Internationals are fucked in this environment (there's currently 3~4 major circumstances that all concurrently work against internationals)
If the RAISE act goes through most immigrants will be left in the dark. And in the current climate there is a good chance it will pass.
I wouldn't want to be international at the moment, it looks really, really bad. Imagine spending all that money and 1) you end up with an online degree 2) no networking 3) no internship 4) you have to go back to India/China/LatAm/etc
And you haven't done anything wrong and don't even deserve this.
What an epic fail.
I think it's retarded that we internationals pay so much fucking money to study in this country and many firms just straight up say we don't sponsor or lie about sponsoring when they really don't.
We're getting screwed left and right. Welcome to the US I guess.
Did you think that people will tell you the truth? Especially in banking?
People will always tell you what you want to hear, they are all slick salespeople. management jobs = selling = people skills
Agreed, it gets even worse when you start the job and see everyone else leaving while you can't.
It's almost like you can't buy citizenship. Go figure.
the raise act could be good for US educated skilled immigrants though since its based on a points system. international students studying in the US won't be hurt nearly as bad as low skill immigrants
True. but the vast majority of immigration currently to the US is based on family preference or family sponsorship. and many (if not most?) are low skilled. The RAISE act will cut the number of immigrants to the US in half or more. Not increase it.
Think about how many immigrants bring their family members to the US. It is by far the largest amount of people who otherwise would never be able to live in the US.
So, in the future, an immigrant may be able to live and work in the US (if skilled/young/speaks English/etc), but outside of his arranged marriage almost nobody else in his family can move to the US. The immediate family members will also count against the overall annual quota. The assumption is that other visas will be replaced by this program, not enhanced.
plus international students tend to work harder at school..... its a BS system in the 'land of opportunity'
oh well... luckily a lot of the opportunities now exist in Asia and not the US, so moving back after OPT has run out may not be the worst thing
At my target, you see some incompetent (insert races) kids get BB/EB offers and international students get fucked over because they are not citizens or don't have green cards.
Lol same with my target... it is an uphill battle as an American but international makes it near impossible.
Employers might hire candidates because they are legally allowed to work in a location. Not because of their race.
Even if they like an international resume, chances of obtaining a H1b (or similar) are low and that is not their fault either.
If you look at the pro-immigration lobby units, they have some big names in there who want more qualified candidates coming into the country. It just isn't that easy.
Could any current international analysts talk about their process for buyside recruting?
Will having a STEM major help a lot in terms of banking and subsequent PE recruiting?
Also could you please PM me? Was wondering if I'll be working at the same EB as you are. Would love to connect if so
Yes, some banks (I know Greenhill used to for example) will only sponsor if you have STEM-OPT. It helps with buyside recruiting in the sense that you get 4 shots at H1B (senior year + 3 yrs working) instead of just two.
are people with 2020SA offers nervous/thinking about FT recruiting?
I have a MM 2020 SA but really wanted to recruit for FT, currently am deciding if its worth it to just push graduation by a semester to Dec 2021 and recruit for 2021SA instead
Why
Why not just stick with your current shop if you can get a ft offer?
buyside recruiting will be next to impossible from my current shop especially for MFs that do look at internationals
.....
Sponsoring?
International analyst at an EB here. Recruited and signed for a PE role in 2021 the past year.
For international analysts that don’t get the H1-B visa, EB’s/BB’s tend to be pretty good with transferring people to other offices (would recommend reaching out to whoever in HR at your EB handles visa processes etc. and inquiring about international mobility). I know a few BB’s that often send internationals to the London or HK office if they don’t receive the H1-B, and I’ve seen international analysts at my current EB transfer to overseas offices after their OPTs expired / they were unable to obtain a H1-B.
Recruiting for buyside was a bit of blackbox, since there are very few internationals on the buyside to speak with. I was really lucky to know one international alum from my school who jumped to buyside from banking, and they had a similar experience to what I’ll echo below. Most internationals end up staying in banking or leaving for overseas offices due to visa issues.
I was very fortunate in that my EB was willing to sponsor my H1-B in my senior year, so I graduated early to have my degree in hand for the application (realized at the time that visa issues would be the biggest obstacle in staying in the US or buyside recruiting, so I touched base with HR shortly after signing my full-time offer). I was even more fortunate to have received it, and I intend on transferring to it before starting in PE.
In terms of the recruiting process, the majority of headhunters stressed that it is extremely difficult to recruit for PE on OPT. Further, they mentioned that there are some firms that flat-out don’t consider internationals at all, even if they have the H1-B; however, I didn’t find this to be the case for the shops I recruited at (UMM / MF). Not sure if this changes as you move to smaller shops (such as how in IB the only firms that take internationals are essentially some BB’s / EB’s and MM / smaller boutique shops tend not to), but I welcome and encourage any other internationals who have recruited to share their experiences so others can have more data points to draw from.
To international students in this thread recruiting for banking – it is certainly an uphill battle, but it’s more than possible and you shouldn’t feel discouraged by the sponsorship obstacles. Give it your best and try to reach out to any international alums from your school in banking who can help shed light on their experiences. If your alumni network is limited, try to cold-email bankers who might be international (e.g. overseas high school on their LinkedIn). I did this for FT recruiting and found internationals are usually very willing to help another international out! Most importantly, remember it is by no means the end of the world or your career if you don’t land an IB offer…… There’s a lot of luck inherent in banking / PE recruiting, and it’s further exacerbated by being an international who has to navigate visa / sponsorship processes. I certainly wouldn’t be in my current position had some things not aligned (e.g. receiving my H1-B so I could recruit) and owe a ton gratitude to the few internationals I spoke with who clarified things here and there.
Thank you so much for your insight – one of the only actual pieces of advice for international analysts on this site. Sounds like recruiting for PE is pretty much impossible on OPT.
Definitely agree with internationals being very willing to help other internationals. I'm an incoming analyst at a BB; if any foreign kid has any questions I can help answer feel free to PM.
Would you mind Pm'ing me? Would love to ask some additional questions.
Happy to take any PM's, but also feel free to post questions to the thread so we can hopefully provide some answers to others here too. Would be great for other international analysts who went through buyside recruiting to chime in as well
I’m majoring in Finance. I’m seeking M&A in Investment Banking. Since I’m an international student, I want to know what additional courses should I take to master topics I didn’t opt for at school. I’m new to the WSO society, so I don't know if it's okay to ask you for a 10-minutes phone call or not. I just want to hear advice from international BB who’ve been to the same process I'm in now.
It looks like CPT/OPT is on the radar to be canceled forbes com /sites/stuartanderson/2020/05/04/next-trump-immigration-target-opt-for-international-students/
Looking bad for internationals!
Thanks for the link. It appears that the OPT cancellation is being specifically targeted at Chinese students...
I don't believe you can change immigration rules for certain nationalities, that would be extremely difficult to market. More likely the regulations will be for all students. there is no clear plan yet, I guess they will have some ideas around mandatory periods outside of the US or they may cancel opt/cpt altogether?
There is also the J1 visa that would work.
Becaue of this, is it possible that banks will stop giving ft offers to internationals who are about to intern this summer?
There is no clear indication yet, but there will most likely be some form of announcement. When they announced the latest 60 day suspension, they also said to take a good look into non-immigrant visa types. This is happening now.
If they actually decide to kill off OPT/H1b/CPT or whatever, then you may still see a job offer but you would not be able to work or live legally (unless your employer, family, spouse or similar files for a different /new visa).
Logically speaking, what are the chances that OPT/H1B/CPT get killed?
We have to wait and see! Maybe it was an off-hand comment to retaliate against China. Maybe they really are looking into it.
I don't see a problem with CPT, but OPT was never a "proper visa" anyway. Just an opportunity for intl students to get some experience abroad. That's it.
H1b was never fair for most internationals - wipro, infosys, TCS et al file multiple applications for the same devs and get the biggest chunks. I don't see how intl. finance people would fare well in that lottery.
On OPT currently. Trump def knows that killing OPT will significantly damage the education sector (colleges) that will lose a major chunk of revenue and will certainly lose their appeal.
The entire college structure will change. It will make almost no sense for international students to study in the US. Colleges then won't be able to promote diversity and inclusion as a selling point to the same extent. This will further affect firms. Some large companies already made clowns of themselves by highlighting their commitment to diversity and inclusion when they don't sponsor work visas.
Aren't colleges already among the biggest losers due to covid19? With the job market in tatters, which international student would now pay that amount of money and then risk being unemployed (not all will be unemployed, but a lot of them will end up going back home).
Even if you are not international - who will pony up this amount of cash unless they have some form of guarantee there will be a job waiting somewhere?
What is the process to apply for H-1B as a senior in college in order to get two shots at it? (non-STEM)
The filing: Step 1. Get a digital photograph Fill US visa application form Step 2. Complete H1B visa application form DS160 H1B Visa Application Fee Step 3. Pay the H1B visa application fee Visa Interview Appointment Step 4. Take appointment for visa interview Visa Interview Step 5. US Visa Fingerprinting at Visa Application Center (VAC) Visa Interview Step 6. Go for visa interview at designated US consulate
There will be a lottery during your adjudication phase where applicants will be "drawn". you have two shots if you have OPT and have an employer who will do this.
1) unlikely to find employers in hard economic times (but possible!) 2) good chance something might happen to OPT/CPT/H1b/ else.
is that the process after you're selected in the lottery? should definitely have your company's lawyers do most of this stuff.
OP, since H1-B filings changed this year, firms have been a lot more willing to let you play the lottery while you're still a senior (assuming you have a job lined up). reach out to HR or your company's lawyers if they have already been assigned to you and ask.
there's nothing you have to do on your end apart from filling out some forms the lawyers will send you – used to be you'd have to get a letter from your university certifying you're about to graduate, but this year that wasn't required.
the lottery is "in between". after you file, before you are selected. you can log onto the gov website and see the status based on the information and credentials you have.
Typically first 2 weeks of April, could be delayed though.
gulag
Just gonna throw my two cents in here as an international who got a PE firm to sponsor greencard while on OPT.
H1-B is for sheep...
If you have STEM OPT - it takes 8 months to 1.5 years to process most steps of a greencard application which supplants the need for H1-B and OPT since it provides temporary work authorization along the way. Also avoids risk of being a gulag H1-B worker.
Pay $200 for a legit immigration attorney instead of asking other international alumni who haven't hired a lawyer themselves and have been fed the H1-B garbage they sell to all 22-year old analyst sheep.
Just PMed you, would appreciate some advice.
No such thing as lottery system for employment-based greencard applications...
My roommate who is also in banking is an international with a STEM-certified MBA degree. He was recently dinged from STEM OPT extension from USCIS and is leaving company/heading back to his country soon. His MBA degree was classified as "Management Science". Just to give internationals out there that STEM OPT extension is not a 100% guarantee.
Is this true for others with the STEM degree as well or only for your roommate?
following
Did his bank not try to relocate him to a different office like London?.
This is true. STEM OPT extension is not a sure-fire. A lot of my friends in IBD had been denied extension despite having a STEM degree - industrial engineering, financial engineering, statistics, management science, you name it. There's no point asking questions about immigration policy/statistics on this thread. No one is an immigration expert and no one can expect the outcome of the immigration's office decision. Some banks may be lucky in that most of their internationals survive. Some banks may have their entire international class wiped out. (Not saying that it is bank/group-dependent)
Just keep it in mind that things can fall apart and prepare ahead - start reaching out to headhunters in your home country early, don't make long term financial commitments before OPT/H1B application, etc.
Was he in IB? If yes, was relocating him not an option?
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